Originally posted by keenber I know they were relesed very close together but the point was it was eq2 that drew most of the great guilds and players from EQ.
EQ2 was Released 5 and a half years after EQ1 I wouldn't consider that very close together at all. The reason so many people left EQ1 back in 2004 was more because of the Gates of Discord expansion than anything.
Originally posted by keenber I know they were relesed very close together but the point was it was eq2 that drew most of the great guilds and players from EQ.
EQ2 was Released 5 and a half years after EQ1 I wouldn't consider that very close together at all. The reason so many people left EQ1 back in 2004 was more because of the Gates of Discord expansion than anything.
Originally posted by keenber I know they were relesed very close together but the point was it was eq2 that drew most of the great guilds and players from EQ.
EQ2 was Released 5 and a half years after EQ1 I wouldn't consider that very close together at all. The reason so many people left EQ1 back in 2004 was more because of the Gates of Discord expansion than anything.
I think Keenber may have been referring to WoW and EQ2 being released together (WoW released 3 weeks after EQ2) and which of those took the most players from Everquest.
I do not contend that EQN will garner 10 million subscribers. It certainly wont be the next coming. Realistically, with their history, 500K sustained subs would be the goal. The world doesn't know EQN is coming and we ARE in a pit, a niche, and will probably always be here.
My point has always been that, hopefully, SOE realizes this and that this was the point where they looked at another niche game, EVE, and said look EVE has had thousands of players for a decade, comparable to EQ and EQ2, but it has grown and been stable.
Now I am not saying they are going to copy EVE, I am saying they are going to cater to an audience that is not the mainstream. I think they realized this and thought, so, do we want to try to get 10 million subs like SWTOR, who had a quarter of a million dollars to throw at it and BioWare developing it and EA publishing it and it STILL tanked with almost 2 million subs for the month it took players to zerg through it, or do we want a game that has 500K subscribers for another 15 years?
EQ and WoW both were HUGE successes for their time far beyond what they expected. I think if they simply make a great game with a direction and goal and do not bow to the forum complainers that the game will slowly grow like EVE has over the years. And there is a small chance that in doing so, it's uniqueness, its making things matter, will attract tons of players.
And yes I know EVE started small and very slowly grew, but it is an odd spaceship avatar game and EQN is going to be familiar high fantasy.
People know when they are being catered to and currently there is little in the way of serious RPG MMOs out there. I like the analogy of Guitar Hero to actual guitar players. It is a little offensive, yea the game is fun, but it makes fun of a lot of things, good fun albeit, but in the end most people move on and a very few actually pick up a real guitar, but everyone knows that no matter how awesome they were, they werent playing a real guitar.
And for along time we have not played a "real" RPG that is an MMO. Not like DND, not like EQ, not like EVE, not like UO or AC or DAOC etc. One can argue until they are blue in the face about these superficial MMORPGs but win a debate or not, focus on semantics or herald the virtues of DND 2nd edition, there simply is not a serious MMORPG for us to go and play.
Will EQN fit this bill? I do not know but tons of people get riled up about this topic and at some point someone somewhere is going to throw down the gauntlet and make this type of game, one that is not "mainstream" that is a "real" RPG MMO in a high fantasy setting and they are going to stick to their guns about loot and "balancing" etc. and they wont cater to the fickle mainstream crowd and they will be rewarded with a loyal fan base that plays for years.
I think the world already has enough viral marketing, which is pretty much what this game is at this point as far as non-developers are concerned. TBH I feel a little sorry for all the people who are really excited right now, because I'm pretty sure most of them will be disappointed.
^
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
EQ2 (Was just as good was WoW *If you like WoW*, but had much higher PC system requirements so it didn't take off, but offered everything WoW did and more)
Now it is. At launch it was a terrible game that had little in common with wow. It was hardly the system requirements that sent people over to wow. It was the lack of fun.
It is a very different game now.
At launch is was almost exactly the same as WoW. It had faction pvp, group dungeons, raid content, a nearly identical combat system, etc etc.
The only main differences was EQ was less solo friendly, and the system requirements were much higher. People were always complaining about how their PC ran WoW fine but EQ2 was getting poor fps (I didn't have that problem because I'm a PC enthusiast with a nice custom build rig). And we all know how people like easier games. Combine the two and what do you get? WoW subs vs EQ2 subs.
Aside from what I covered, WoW and EQ2 were almost identical in the offered features and amount of content. I liked EQ2 personally, but I understand why it didn't turn out as popular as WoW.
I think you're underselling how much hype Blizzard has just by gamers alone. You're talking about a time when Starcraft 1/Warcraft 1/2/3/Diablo 2 were huge hits. All gold standard games. I think Blizzard is still viewed in that same gold standard light, they can put out a game and anyone will buy it. So then you say "Warcraft? In an MMO? By Blizzard who made all these fantastic games? I'm in"
I do not contend that EQN will garner 10 million subscribers. It certainly wont be the next coming. Realistically, with their history, 500K sustained subs would be the goal. The world doesn't know EQN is coming and we ARE in a pit, a niche, and will probably always be here.
Why not? When you look at how EQ changed the gaming industry why would you automatically assume that EQN can't be "the next coming"? Consider the fact that we've been getting themepark after themepark, and people are really craving something new and innovative. Then consider how insanely popular Minecraft turned out to be. Even with it's really terrible graphics, it managed to gain widespread popularity and changed the way a lot of people look at video games. Also consider how insanely popular the DayZ mod turned out to be, spawning it's own sandbox standalone (that I hope we get our hands on soon).
Now take a company that is no stranger to innovation, that has the financial backing to do it... I don't see how you can make this statement. EQN might very well be the Minecraft or DayZ of fantasy MMORPGs, blowing everyone away and gaining wide-spread mainstream popularity and in turn setting the bar for all MMORPGs to follow.
Frankly, I'm just looking for a good game. An open world with lots of freedom set in an EQ theme. If the game bombs, I'll probably still love it lol. But I'm just saying that you can't say it "certainly won't be the next coming".
Over the years, games jump out of nowhere and surprise the hell out of the world. Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, Mario, Wolfenstein, Doom, Resident Evil, WoW, The Sims, Portal, Bioshock Infinite, Half Life, Counter Strike, The Legend of Zelda, Super Metroid, Tetris, Final Fantasy 7, Halo, Mortal Kombat, Everquest.... you get the point.
EQN could quite possibly be the next innovative video game to become legend.
EQ2 (Was just as good was WoW *If you like WoW*, but had much higher PC system requirements so it didn't take off, but offered everything WoW did and more)
Now it is. At launch it was a terrible game that had little in common with wow. It was hardly the system requirements that sent people over to wow. It was the lack of fun.
It is a very different game now.
At launch is was almost exactly the same as WoW. It had faction pvp, group dungeons, raid content, a nearly identical combat system, etc etc.
The only main differences was EQ was less solo friendly, and the system requirements were much higher. People were always complaining about how their PC ran WoW fine but EQ2 was getting poor fps (I didn't have that problem because I'm a PC enthusiast with a nice custom build rig). And we all know how people like easier games. Combine the two and what do you get? WoW subs vs EQ2 subs.
Aside from what I covered, WoW and EQ2 were almost identical in the offered features and amount of content. I liked EQ2 personally, but I understand why it didn't turn out as popular as WoW.
I think you're underselling how much hype Blizzard has just by gamers alone. You're talking about a time when Starcraft 1/Warcraft 1/2/3/Diablo 2 were huge hits. All gold standard games. I think Blizzard is still viewed in that same gold standard light, they can put out a game and anyone will buy it. So then you say "Warcraft? In an MMO? By Blizzard who made all these fantastic games? I'm in"
Absolutely not. Blizzard's fan base from SC, Warcraft and Diablo was also a huge factor in getting a large amount of subscribers. It curtainly played a large role in WoW's success.
But the core of it was the game. PC games that have really high system requirements have a very, very poor track record, and it's no mystery why. I mean, look at how people react to the console pricing. People go berserk when one console launches for +$100 more than the competition. People are cheap, and when you got two quality MMORPGs that offer almost exactly the same experience, but one is easier and has much lower system requirements and runs smoother on low end machines, you got a recipe for success. It also makes word of mouth advertising much more effective. WoW's low system requirements made it so many people that had even basic PCs could log in, join their friends and try out the game without even upgrading. Compare that to EQ2 and even some gaming PCs were having issues because of the high specs. It just stunts growth, drastically.
But I won't undersell Blizzard's entrenched fanbase. Of course that played a part in WoW's fortune.
Even with less time on my hands than I had in college during EQ1, I'd rather play a game that was slower with meaningful progression for a couple hours a day than a game geared towards a brain-dead fetus.
I wish EQNext was very similar to EQ1 pre planes of power, but with better graphics and controls.
Wonderfully designed world and lore.
Zero instances.
Zero battlegrounds.
PvE and PvP servers. (No PvP zone restrictions like the Zek servers)
Gear that actually takes work to get and means something.
An actual death penalty for the love of Jebus... Loss of EXP and corpse runs. A game is zero fun without risk.
Epic raids that take 6+ hours and MASSIVE coordination.
Actual difficult epic quests.
The sense of accomplishment doing difficult things.
No more of this soccer mom, make-everyone happy trivial themepark instant gratification crap...
This is an excellent post. The death penalty is a must. I'm turning 40 and my life is much busier now then it was back then, but I need a challenge. New MMO's can't hold me for more then a month, two tops.
I will say, I did love Alteric Valley battleground in WoW though. I played that zone so much, it felt like a real battle. Anyway, I'm not a huge PVE Raid fan, but I want gear that means something. I want a meaningful crafting system (EQ2's crafting system was very good).
I wish EQNext was very similar to EQ1 pre planes of power, but with better graphics and controls.
Wonderfully designed world and lore.
Zero instances.
Zero battlegrounds.
PvE and PvP servers. (No PvP zone restrictions like the Zek servers)
Gear that actually takes work to get and means something.
An actual death penalty for the love of Jebus... Loss of EXP and corpse runs. A game is zero fun without risk.
Epic raids that take 6+ hours and MASSIVE coordination.
Actual difficult epic quests.
The sense of accomplishment doing difficult things.
No more of this soccer mom, make-everyone happy trivial themepark instant gratification crap...
This is an excellent post. The death penalty is a must. I'm turning 40 and my life is much busier now then it was back then, but I need a challenge. New MMO's can't hold me for more then a month, two tops.
I will say, I did love Alteric Valley battleground in WoW though. I played that zone so much, it felt like a real battle. Anyway, I'm not a huge PVE Raid fan, but I want gear that means something. I want a meaningful crafting system (EQ2's crafting system was very good).
But again, we need death to matter.
You're in a minority though is what you have to realize. You can try to delude yourself all you want, but most 40 year olds who game have a family, job, and sometimes can only play for 30 minute spurts before the baby wakes up or they need to pick their kid up from school or any other sort of disruption. Most 40 year old gamers want something they can put up and down and see growth
I mean, just take these forums for example -- We're a minority. I'd wager its only 50 different people posting here. The Everquest Next reddit only has 800 subscribers, the EQN twitter only has 1000 followers. We're not who they are targeting, they need a large consumer base that is going to last for 10+ years and that is beyond everyone whose posted on these EQN forums on MMORPG.com
If 50 people from MMORPG.com dont like the game, they dont care if it means they gain 100,000 subscribers.
Its nice to see a lot of excitement on the boards about this game, but I've been burnt too many times by the hype machine here to really invest much in it.
I think no matter how this game turns out there will be a lot of disappointed people on these forums. EQ1 doesn't even do corpse runs anymore, just a xp penalty. That mechanic is dead.
Its nice to see a lot of excitement on the boards about this game, but I've been burnt too many times by the hype machine here to really invest much in it.
I think no matter how this game turns out there will be a lot of disappointed people on these forums. EQ1 doesn't even do corpse runs anymore, just a xp penalty. That mechanic is dead.
Just because EQ1 doesn't do corpse runs anymore doesn't mean it wasn't a good mechanic. EQ1 of today isn't anything like the original EQ1 and the first couple of expansions.
Having to have a great plan to rez your raid in plane of fear/hate after a wipe along with the bitter sting of defeat, using training tactics, feign death etc.. Those were the days... It actually took hard work, skill and thought to accomplish stuff.
I couldn't care less about 40 year olds with babies to feed that only want to play a game 30 minutes at a time. They can play the other 99% of games out there.
I rember one time as me being a enchanter how we had no puller so the tank pulled and of course he pulled 9 mobs into the camp and by the time i had them all locked down the cleric and almost everybody was dead. I had to keep them 9 mobs locked down for near 30 min while they ran back and then rezz and med up. The skill it takes to pull,tank,heal and cc was such a huge thing in EQ that it made you so proud when you got good at a class. Now since the game has changed so much it is much easy than it used to but it is still very important that you are good at your class and i hope to get that feeling back in EQN.
Originally posted by keenber I rember one time as me being a enchanter how we had no puller so the tank pulled and of course he pulled 9 mobs into the camp and by the time i had them all locked down the cleric and almost everybody was dead. I had to keep them 9 mobs locked down for near 30 min while they ran back and then rezz and med up. The skill it takes to pull,tank,heal and cc was such a huge thing in EQ that it made you so proud when you got good at a class. Now since the game has changed so much it is much easy than it used to but it is still very important that you are good at your class and i hope to get that feeling back in EQN.
Stuff like that is what I am talking about. An enchanter was an awesome class if played well. You actually had to pay attention and EQ1 could make you "Sweat". In todays games, you could go afk for 10 minutes during a fight and it wouldn't matter.
I do not contend that EQN will garner 10 million subscribers. It certainly wont be the next coming. Realistically, with their history, 500K sustained subs would be the goal. The world doesn't know EQN is coming and we ARE in a pit, a niche, and will probably always be here.
Why not? When you look at how EQ changed the gaming industry why would you automatically assume that EQN can't be "the next coming"? Consider the fact that we've been getting themepark after themepark, and people are really craving something new and innovative. Then consider how insanely popular Minecraft turned out to be. Even with it's really terrible graphics, it managed to gain widespread popularity and changed the way a lot of people look at video games. Also consider how insanely popular the DayZ mod turned out to be, spawning it's own sandbox standalone (that I hope we get our hands on soon).
Now take a company that is no stranger to innovation, that has the financial backing to do it... I don't see how you can make this statement. EQN might very well be the Minecraft or DayZ of fantasy MMORPGs, blowing everyone away and gaining wide-spread mainstream popularity and in turn setting the bar for all MMORPGs to follow.
Frankly, I'm just looking for a good game. An open world with lots of freedom set in an EQ theme. If the game bombs, I'll probably still love it lol. But I'm just saying that you can't say it "certainly won't be the next coming".
Over the years, games jump out of nowhere and surprise the hell out of the world. Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, Mario, Wolfenstein, Doom, Resident Evil, WoW, The Sims, Portal, Bioshock Infinite, Half Life, Counter Strike, The Legend of Zelda, Super Metroid, Tetris, Final Fantasy 7, Halo, Mortal Kombat, Everquest.... you get the point.
EQN could quite possibly be the next innovative video game to become legend.
Dont get me wrong I would love for EQN to be huge. I just do not expect it. I hope I am wrong. If they do what they have said then I could easily see 1 M players. Right now we are in a box, a niche, the rest of the MMO world doesnt know or care about EQN. We are a self selected bunch of fans trolling the forums waiting for Aug 2.
After we know more on Aug I will be out proselytizing, no doubt, but until then the second coming remains to be seen.
EQ2 (Was just as good was WoW *If you like WoW*, but had much higher PC system requirements so it didn't take off, but offered everything WoW did and more)
Now it is. At launch it was a terrible game that had little in common with wow. It was hardly the system requirements that sent people over to wow. It was the lack of fun.
It is a very different game now.
I actually enjoyed the game then, as well as now. Despite the bugs, it was harder than WoW and I liked the class and betrayal systems.
Originally posted by tkreep I see games like Demons Souls and Dark Souls become so popular because of their difficulty and those are modern games for modern gaming market so I dont see why devs are so afraid to make a mmo difficult. Because Dark Souls take up just as much free time in a persons life as any mmo. I remember playing Demons Souls for over 10 hours a day sometimes.
March/April 2014 is too far away!!! (Dark Souls 2 pre-ordered baby!)
Originally posted by CallsignVega
I wish EQNext was very similar to EQ1 pre planes of power, but with better graphics and controls.
Wonderfully designed world and lore.
Zero instances.
Zero battlegrounds.
PvE and PvP servers. (No PvP zone restrictions like the Zek servers)
Gear that actually takes work to get and means something.
An actual death penalty for the love of Jebus... Loss of EXP and corpse runs. A game is zero fun without risk.
Epic raids that take 6+ hours and MASSIVE coordination.
Actual difficult epic quests.
The sense of accomplishment doing difficult things.
No more of this soccer mom, make-everyone happy trivial themepark instant gratification crap...
Agreed, however I stop shor of the Epic Raids stuff. Difficult and require coordination, sure! Give me that. Howver 6-hours is excessive. I don't mean it needs to be a quick 30min slaughter-fest, but for goodness sake; I don't have 6-hrs to spend raiding. My day job and college prevent that!
Epic Quests: Definitely! However, let me add this additional tidbit - Epic Quest that has multiple different types: Solo Type which can be a pre-req for a Raid type, which can be a pre-req for a 2.0 type. That way, the non-raiding casual can at least get some class defining piece of gear.
Originally posted by Nadia
i loved the enchanter class in EQ1
I'm hoping EQN has bards and enchanters -- but who knows
As long as they don't break Bards on every patch, all is good.
At the very least, I want them to break away from the WoW mindset of Tank, Healer, DPS as the "Holy Trinity". I want the original EQ mindset of Tank, Healer, CC, 3 DPS. Give me my support/crowd control class dangit.
And that is assuming they even go with a "class" system.
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
I do not contend that EQN will garner 10 million subscribers. It certainly wont be the next coming. Realistically, with their history, 500K sustained subs would be the goal. The world doesn't know EQN is coming and we ARE in a pit, a niche, and will probably always be here.
Why not? When you look at how EQ changed the gaming industry why would you automatically assume that EQN can't be "the next coming"? Consider the fact that we've been getting themepark after themepark, and people are really craving something new and innovative. Then consider how insanely popular Minecraft turned out to be. Even with it's really terrible graphics, it managed to gain widespread popularity and changed the way a lot of people look at video games. Also consider how insanely popular the DayZ mod turned out to be, spawning it's own sandbox standalone (that I hope we get our hands on soon).
Now take a company that is no stranger to innovation, that has the financial backing to do it... I don't see how you can make this statement. EQN might very well be the Minecraft or DayZ of fantasy MMORPGs, blowing everyone away and gaining wide-spread mainstream popularity and in turn setting the bar for all MMORPGs to follow.
Frankly, I'm just looking for a good game. An open world with lots of freedom set in an EQ theme. If the game bombs, I'll probably still love it lol. But I'm just saying that you can't say it "certainly won't be the next coming".
Over the years, games jump out of nowhere and surprise the hell out of the world. Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, Mario, Wolfenstein, Doom, Resident Evil, WoW, The Sims, Portal, Bioshock Infinite, Half Life, Counter Strike, The Legend of Zelda, Super Metroid, Tetris, Final Fantasy 7, Halo, Mortal Kombat, Everquest.... you get the point.
EQN could quite possibly be the next innovative video game to become legend.
Dont get me wrong I would love for EQN to be huge. I just do not expect it. I hope I am wrong. If they do what they have said then I could easily see 1 M players. Right now we are in a box, a niche, the rest of the MMO world doesnt know or care about EQN. We are a self selected bunch of fans trolling the forums waiting for Aug 2.
After we know more on Aug I will be out proselytizing, no doubt, but until then the second coming remains to be seen.
In less than 12 hours today the tribute image is almost completely unlocked on their website. I think theirs alot more hype out there than anyone (including SoE) realizes
The MMO world has taken a terrible turn from the days of EQ1. Developers have had to balance the wants and needs of a younger generation that needs instant gratification, and an older generation with less time on their hands. The days of camping 28 hours for JBoots are a thing in the past, the day of grinding in a dungeon from level 22 to 23 is all but over. Today, if you die, you simply respawn and go something else, you could even die as a mode of transportation. Yesteryear, if you died, you just signed up for 2 hours of getting your body back or paying someone to do it.
The landscape has changed, and while I, like most people, don't have time to burn into a game, I miss the sense of achievement when I finally get my epic after a month long journey. It will take a titan, one like SOE to right the ship in EQN. World of Warcraft capitalized on the instant gratification model, the easy model, but I am ready, and the world is ready for SOE to deliver the best of both worlds. To innovate and amaze. To Immerse and wonder us all over again.
I look forward to growing old friendships and forging new ones once again in the world of Norrath.
This tread makes me chuckle. 1999 is when EQ was released. 14 years ago. I'm 34 and I wasn't even allowed to drink back then. What has SOE done since then. EQ2 had worst sub numbers that FFXI, a game that directly copied EQ1.
Its really funny to hear all these grown men putting their mmo hopes and dreams in a company that had 1 good game in almost 2 decades. Especially when the only thing known about this game is a quote from a man who is known for hyping his own products prematurely. "Biggest sandbox ever" And all these fans pee themselves and scream like little girls.
How many truly amazing games have come out since EQ1? Wow and that's about it. I don't even play wow anymore, but it still was a great game in its day. So with so little to chose from in the past 10 years what would you say the chances are that EQN is really as good as you hope? Given the man and company behind it.... 40% at best.
Originally posted by jdnyc I'm hyped to see what EQN had to offer, BUT it's smart to keep that hype firmly there. We don't know exactly what SOE had planned. The devil is in the details as they say. But from what we do know, the game does sound promising.
Strongly support this, we need to tone down, take a walk and wait for official news about whats really in the game.
The MMO world has taken a terrible turn from the days of EQ1. Developers have had to balance the wants and needs of a younger generation that needs instant gratification, and an older generation with less time on their hands. The days of camping 28 hours for JBoots are a thing in the past, the day of grinding in a dungeon from level 22 to 23 is all but over. Today, if you die, you simply respawn and go something else, you could even die as a mode of transportation. Yesteryear, if you died, you just signed up for 2 hours of getting your body back or paying someone to do it.
The landscape has changed, and while I, like most people, don't have time to burn into a game, I miss the sense of achievement when I finally get my epic after a month long journey. It will take a titan, one like SOE to right the ship in EQN. World of Warcraft capitalized on the instant gratification model, the easy model, but I am ready, and the world is ready for SOE to deliver the best of both worlds. To innovate and amaze. To Immerse and wonder us all over again.
I look forward to growing old friendships and forging new ones once again in the world of Norrath.
First does anyone really have the time or desire to spend 28 hours camping a pixel?
Second Remember EQ1, EQ2, or SWG? Those games slowly became watered down for the casual majority (some more so EQ2 , SWG and some less so EQ) How did this happen you ask, things lijke the NGE in SWG, and removal of stats (except health and power) from EQ2 because figuring out more strength = more damaging mellee attack was just too hard for the player base SOE wanted. Well simple SOE did it. SOE was chasing the WOW crowd then and is still chasing them now. I'll be happy to be wrong but more likely then not EQN will just be a wow theme park with Farmville sandbox tacked on. Something incredibly easy with a F2P system designed to suck your wallet dry. Want examples? How about EQ2's F2P system where if you want to equip any item that's better then average you have to pay, and not just once.
SOE is no great company, and Smedly is no Saint. Together SOE and Smedly have had their hands in reducing MNO's to the super casual, super dumbed down, and super swallow state they are currently in. If you can say they have done anything but in the last several years I'd like to see your proof?
EQN I wager will be very Tweet and Facebook friendly so that your friends can help you grow your Farmville sandbox, with small charges to make it grow faster or to have something slightly different, but in the end it will be nothing but a Hybrid of the very simple and very casual Farmville and MMO's already out.
Comments
EQ2 was Released 5 and a half years after EQ1 I wouldn't consider that very close together at all. The reason so many people left EQ1 back in 2004 was more because of the Gates of Discord expansion than anything.
We're talking about Eq2 and WoW's release.
I think Keenber may have been referring to WoW and EQ2 being released together (WoW released 3 weeks after EQ2) and which of those took the most players from Everquest.
I do not contend that EQN will garner 10 million subscribers. It certainly wont be the next coming. Realistically, with their history, 500K sustained subs would be the goal. The world doesn't know EQN is coming and we ARE in a pit, a niche, and will probably always be here.
My point has always been that, hopefully, SOE realizes this and that this was the point where they looked at another niche game, EVE, and said look EVE has had thousands of players for a decade, comparable to EQ and EQ2, but it has grown and been stable.
Now I am not saying they are going to copy EVE, I am saying they are going to cater to an audience that is not the mainstream. I think they realized this and thought, so, do we want to try to get 10 million subs like SWTOR, who had a quarter of a million dollars to throw at it and BioWare developing it and EA publishing it and it STILL tanked with almost 2 million subs for the month it took players to zerg through it, or do we want a game that has 500K subscribers for another 15 years?
EQ and WoW both were HUGE successes for their time far beyond what they expected. I think if they simply make a great game with a direction and goal and do not bow to the forum complainers that the game will slowly grow like EVE has over the years. And there is a small chance that in doing so, it's uniqueness, its making things matter, will attract tons of players.
And yes I know EVE started small and very slowly grew, but it is an odd spaceship avatar game and EQN is going to be familiar high fantasy.
People know when they are being catered to and currently there is little in the way of serious RPG MMOs out there. I like the analogy of Guitar Hero to actual guitar players. It is a little offensive, yea the game is fun, but it makes fun of a lot of things, good fun albeit, but in the end most people move on and a very few actually pick up a real guitar, but everyone knows that no matter how awesome they were, they werent playing a real guitar.
And for along time we have not played a "real" RPG that is an MMO. Not like DND, not like EQ, not like EVE, not like UO or AC or DAOC etc. One can argue until they are blue in the face about these superficial MMORPGs but win a debate or not, focus on semantics or herald the virtues of DND 2nd edition, there simply is not a serious MMORPG for us to go and play.
Will EQN fit this bill? I do not know but tons of people get riled up about this topic and at some point someone somewhere is going to throw down the gauntlet and make this type of game, one that is not "mainstream" that is a "real" RPG MMO in a high fantasy setting and they are going to stick to their guns about loot and "balancing" etc. and they wont cater to the fickle mainstream crowd and they will be rewarded with a loyal fan base that plays for years.
^
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
I think you're underselling how much hype Blizzard has just by gamers alone. You're talking about a time when Starcraft 1/Warcraft 1/2/3/Diablo 2 were huge hits. All gold standard games. I think Blizzard is still viewed in that same gold standard light, they can put out a game and anyone will buy it. So then you say "Warcraft? In an MMO? By Blizzard who made all these fantastic games? I'm in"
Why not? When you look at how EQ changed the gaming industry why would you automatically assume that EQN can't be "the next coming"? Consider the fact that we've been getting themepark after themepark, and people are really craving something new and innovative. Then consider how insanely popular Minecraft turned out to be. Even with it's really terrible graphics, it managed to gain widespread popularity and changed the way a lot of people look at video games. Also consider how insanely popular the DayZ mod turned out to be, spawning it's own sandbox standalone (that I hope we get our hands on soon).
Now take a company that is no stranger to innovation, that has the financial backing to do it... I don't see how you can make this statement. EQN might very well be the Minecraft or DayZ of fantasy MMORPGs, blowing everyone away and gaining wide-spread mainstream popularity and in turn setting the bar for all MMORPGs to follow.
Frankly, I'm just looking for a good game. An open world with lots of freedom set in an EQ theme. If the game bombs, I'll probably still love it lol. But I'm just saying that you can't say it "certainly won't be the next coming".
Over the years, games jump out of nowhere and surprise the hell out of the world. Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, Mario, Wolfenstein, Doom, Resident Evil, WoW, The Sims, Portal, Bioshock Infinite, Half Life, Counter Strike, The Legend of Zelda, Super Metroid, Tetris, Final Fantasy 7, Halo, Mortal Kombat, Everquest.... you get the point.
EQN could quite possibly be the next innovative video game to become legend.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
Absolutely not. Blizzard's fan base from SC, Warcraft and Diablo was also a huge factor in getting a large amount of subscribers. It curtainly played a large role in WoW's success.
But the core of it was the game. PC games that have really high system requirements have a very, very poor track record, and it's no mystery why. I mean, look at how people react to the console pricing. People go berserk when one console launches for +$100 more than the competition. People are cheap, and when you got two quality MMORPGs that offer almost exactly the same experience, but one is easier and has much lower system requirements and runs smoother on low end machines, you got a recipe for success. It also makes word of mouth advertising much more effective. WoW's low system requirements made it so many people that had even basic PCs could log in, join their friends and try out the game without even upgrading. Compare that to EQ2 and even some gaming PCs were having issues because of the high specs. It just stunts growth, drastically.
But I won't undersell Blizzard's entrenched fanbase. Of course that played a part in WoW's fortune.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
Even with less time on my hands than I had in college during EQ1, I'd rather play a game that was slower with meaningful progression for a couple hours a day than a game geared towards a brain-dead fetus.
I wish EQNext was very similar to EQ1 pre planes of power, but with better graphics and controls.
Wonderfully designed world and lore.
Zero instances.
Zero battlegrounds.
PvE and PvP servers. (No PvP zone restrictions like the Zek servers)
Gear that actually takes work to get and means something.
An actual death penalty for the love of Jebus... Loss of EXP and corpse runs. A game is zero fun without risk.
Epic raids that take 6+ hours and MASSIVE coordination.
Actual difficult epic quests.
The sense of accomplishment doing difficult things.
No more of this soccer mom, make-everyone happy trivial themepark instant gratification crap...
This is an excellent post. The death penalty is a must. I'm turning 40 and my life is much busier now then it was back then, but I need a challenge. New MMO's can't hold me for more then a month, two tops.
I will say, I did love Alteric Valley battleground in WoW though. I played that zone so much, it felt like a real battle. Anyway, I'm not a huge PVE Raid fan, but I want gear that means something. I want a meaningful crafting system (EQ2's crafting system was very good).
But again, we need death to matter.
You're in a minority though is what you have to realize. You can try to delude yourself all you want, but most 40 year olds who game have a family, job, and sometimes can only play for 30 minute spurts before the baby wakes up or they need to pick their kid up from school or any other sort of disruption. Most 40 year old gamers want something they can put up and down and see growth
I mean, just take these forums for example -- We're a minority. I'd wager its only 50 different people posting here. The Everquest Next reddit only has 800 subscribers, the EQN twitter only has 1000 followers. We're not who they are targeting, they need a large consumer base that is going to last for 10+ years and that is beyond everyone whose posted on these EQN forums on MMORPG.com
If 50 people from MMORPG.com dont like the game, they dont care if it means they gain 100,000 subscribers.
Its nice to see a lot of excitement on the boards about this game, but I've been burnt too many times by the hype machine here to really invest much in it.
I think no matter how this game turns out there will be a lot of disappointed people on these forums. EQ1 doesn't even do corpse runs anymore, just a xp penalty. That mechanic is dead.
Just because EQ1 doesn't do corpse runs anymore doesn't mean it wasn't a good mechanic. EQ1 of today isn't anything like the original EQ1 and the first couple of expansions.
Having to have a great plan to rez your raid in plane of fear/hate after a wipe along with the bitter sting of defeat, using training tactics, feign death etc.. Those were the days... It actually took hard work, skill and thought to accomplish stuff.
I couldn't care less about 40 year olds with babies to feed that only want to play a game 30 minutes at a time. They can play the other 99% of games out there.
Stuff like that is what I am talking about. An enchanter was an awesome class if played well. You actually had to pay attention and EQ1 could make you "Sweat". In todays games, you could go afk for 10 minutes during a fight and it wouldn't matter.
i loved the enchanter class in EQ1
I'm hoping EQN has bards and enchanters -- but who knows
EQ2 fan sites
Enchanter is still my favorite class from any mmo, it better have it!
Dont get me wrong I would love for EQN to be huge. I just do not expect it. I hope I am wrong. If they do what they have said then I could easily see 1 M players. Right now we are in a box, a niche, the rest of the MMO world doesnt know or care about EQN. We are a self selected bunch of fans trolling the forums waiting for Aug 2.
After we know more on Aug I will be out proselytizing, no doubt, but until then the second coming remains to be seen.
I actually enjoyed the game then, as well as now. Despite the bugs, it was harder than WoW and I liked the class and betrayal systems.
March/April 2014 is too far away!!! (Dark Souls 2 pre-ordered baby!)
Agreed, however I stop shor of the Epic Raids stuff. Difficult and require coordination, sure! Give me that. Howver 6-hours is excessive. I don't mean it needs to be a quick 30min slaughter-fest, but for goodness sake; I don't have 6-hrs to spend raiding. My day job and college prevent that!
Epic Quests: Definitely! However, let me add this additional tidbit - Epic Quest that has multiple different types: Solo Type which can be a pre-req for a Raid type, which can be a pre-req for a 2.0 type. That way, the non-raiding casual can at least get some class defining piece of gear.
As long as they don't break Bards on every patch, all is good.
At the very least, I want them to break away from the WoW mindset of Tank, Healer, DPS as the "Holy Trinity". I want the original EQ mindset of Tank, Healer, CC, 3 DPS. Give me my support/crowd control class dangit.
And that is assuming they even go with a "class" system.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
In less than 12 hours today the tribute image is almost completely unlocked on their website. I think theirs alot more hype out there than anyone (including SoE) realizes
This tread makes me chuckle. 1999 is when EQ was released. 14 years ago. I'm 34 and I wasn't even allowed to drink back then. What has SOE done since then. EQ2 had worst sub numbers that FFXI, a game that directly copied EQ1.
Its really funny to hear all these grown men putting their mmo hopes and dreams in a company that had 1 good game in almost 2 decades. Especially when the only thing known about this game is a quote from a man who is known for hyping his own products prematurely. "Biggest sandbox ever" And all these fans pee themselves and scream like little girls.
How many truly amazing games have come out since EQ1? Wow and that's about it. I don't even play wow anymore, but it still was a great game in its day. So with so little to chose from in the past 10 years what would you say the chances are that EQN is really as good as you hope? Given the man and company behind it.... 40% at best.
You know I'm right.
Strongly support this, we need to tone down, take a walk and wait for official news about whats really in the game.
It maybe yet another disappointment .... Be still
RIP Orc Choppa
First does anyone really have the time or desire to spend 28 hours camping a pixel?
Second Remember EQ1, EQ2, or SWG? Those games slowly became watered down for the casual majority (some more so EQ2 , SWG and some less so EQ) How did this happen you ask, things lijke the NGE in SWG, and removal of stats (except health and power) from EQ2 because figuring out more strength = more damaging mellee attack was just too hard for the player base SOE wanted. Well simple SOE did it. SOE was chasing the WOW crowd then and is still chasing them now. I'll be happy to be wrong but more likely then not EQN will just be a wow theme park with Farmville sandbox tacked on. Something incredibly easy with a F2P system designed to suck your wallet dry. Want examples? How about EQ2's F2P system where if you want to equip any item that's better then average you have to pay, and not just once.
SOE is no great company, and Smedly is no Saint. Together SOE and Smedly have had their hands in reducing MNO's to the super casual, super dumbed down, and super swallow state they are currently in. If you can say they have done anything but in the last several years I'd like to see your proof?
EQN I wager will be very Tweet and Facebook friendly so that your friends can help you grow your Farmville sandbox, with small charges to make it grow faster or to have something slightly different, but in the end it will be nothing but a Hybrid of the very simple and very casual Farmville and MMO's already out.