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Anyone else find the combat lacking?

Impulse47Impulse47 St. Louis, MOPosts: 158Member Common
First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?
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Comments

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common

    TERA and GW2 have some of the most repetitive combat in MMO history (havent played DCUO).  not exactly good games to bring up as examples of good MMORPG combat.

    No, FFXIV doesnt suddenly morph into a half assed 'action' combat system.

    I agree it isnt that strong and wish they could have had some play on ATB, but depth in combat is enormously more important to me than how often you have to move when a mob blinks.  i have no idea how much depth is ultimately in FFXIV combat though.

  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Aurora, ILPosts: 2,656Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Impulse47
    First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

    Dunno I guess it works kinda like old school Final Fantasy. Or are you the new old school that was not really into Final Fantasy until number 7? Because I'm a old school Final Fantasy players and believe you me, combat is the least of my worries. I'd rather SE immerse me in a mmorpg that feels like Final Fantasy rather than worry about dodging. Also I'm assuming you know what ATB means without having to look it up on google. If you do then you know FF has always been about strategy rather than tactics....unless of course you're playing FFT. image

    image
    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  • Impulse47Impulse47 St. Louis, MOPosts: 158Member Common
    Originally posted by strangiato2112

    TERA and GW2 have some of the most repetitive combat in MMO history (havent played DCUO).  not exactly good games to bring up as examples of good MMORPG combat.

    No, FFXIV doesnt suddenly morph into a half assed 'action' combat system.

    I agree it isnt that strong and wish they could have had some play on ATB, but depth in combat is enormously more important to me than how often you have to move when a mob blinks.  i have no idea how much depth is ultimately in FFXIV combat though.

    I would be interested in hearing your examples of "good" combat, then.

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,561Member Uncommon
    its not action combat, its traditional tab target with auto attack and global cooldowns which actually is more similar to even the single player final fantasy games especially final fantasy 12.  It is a bit simple at the start for mmo vets but it does get more complex by mid level and even more at high level and as you unlock more additional actions from other classes.  Group content past level 20 is where this games combat really shines as they will involve more strategic situations.  Yoshida compared the combat to Poker.
  • aionixaionix Fremont, OHPosts: 292Member
    What other FF game has active dodging?  Its still an FF game, even if it is an MMO.  Now that the wave of "Action" MMO's has passed and we all learned that combat style is actually MORE shallow than classic style, you'd still want that?
  • BraindomeBraindome Posts: 769Member Uncommon

    You can dodge attacks, don't know exactly how much more "active" that can be lol, you dodge, what do you want an active time event or something? You can run circles around enemies while strafing and not getting hit by some magical invisible extended appendage.

    I fail to see what you are even complaining about as you can fight and dodge. What exactly were you looking for again? I would say combat is on par with other games in the genre if not faster.

  • Impulse47Impulse47 St. Louis, MOPosts: 158Member Common
    Originally posted by Ramonski7
    Originally posted by Impulse47
    First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

    Dunno I guess it works kinda like old school Final Fantasy. Or are you the new old school that was not really into Final Fantasy until number 7? Because I'm a old school Final Fantasy players and believe you me, combat is the least of my worries. I'd rather SE immerse me in a mmorpg that feels like Final Fantasy rather than worry about dodging. Also I'm assuming you know what ATB means without having to look it up on google. If you do then you know FF has always been about strategy rather than tactics....unless of course you're playing FFT. image

    My first Final Fantasy was Mystic Quest.  I actually quit the series after FF7... Mostly because I became bored with TB combat.

  • skyexileskyexile MelbournePosts: 692Member


    Originally posted by Impulse47
    First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

    If GW2, Tera and DCUO combat is so good, why arnt you playing them?

    SKYeXile
    TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
    Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  • Impulse47Impulse47 St. Louis, MOPosts: 158Member Common
    Originally posted by skyexile

     


    Originally posted by Impulse47
    First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

     

    If GW2, Tera and DCUO combat is so good, why arnt you playing them?

    Do you actually care to hear my reasons, or was this rhetorical?  I assure you in each case, it had nothing to do with the respective combat systems.

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Somewhere, CAPosts: 628Member Uncommon
    The combat doesn't suddenly become amazing at any point. You get some more buttons to press, and apparently you get to press them faster if you have enough of a certain stat. If you think having more buttons to press slightly faster would make the combat better, then yes, it gets good. If not, then I'm afraid you're never going to enjoy combat. 
  • SinakuSinaku Austin, TXPosts: 481Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Impulse47
    First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

    Why everyone on this forum is extremely arrogant I will never understand, everyones comment so far to your OP is totally just stabbing at the fact that either A. you liked Tera/GW2 combat and they didn't or B.You like Final Fantasy...

    Anyway, I agree to an extent I would say. It is a step back in the sense that more games are being progressive about combat and trying to move in a different direction. However, I will say also that it is a step forward from FFXIV 1.0. The combat was even more dull and repetitive than most games I've laid my eyes on. I don't generally like the idea of the global cooldown taking most of your skills into the button mash 1,2,3,4 category but honestly I don't mind it all that much.

    I would like to see some action, and more complex combat but honestly it won't happen here.

  • Impulse47Impulse47 St. Louis, MOPosts: 158Member Common

    To answer a few replies to this thread:  No, no other Final Fantasy game has had active dodging, but comparing this to other Final Fantasies (aside from XI) is crazy anyway.  This is a MMO which uses the FF IP, but first and foremost it is an MMO and should be compared to other MMOs.  I have serious doubts that this can deliver enough storyline content to feel enough like a single player RPG in order for it to be compared to the other Final Fantasies.  At the end of the day, you are going to be grinding mobs just like every other MMO on the market, and I need that grinding to be fun and engaging.

    Specifically I like TERA's combat because most boss monsters have near-kill or insta-kill moves that you have to dodge out of with various moves that provide invulnerability frames.  This keeps the combat exciting and demanding of my full attention.  GW2 has some similar concepts but is a bit sloppier in design in my opinion.  Nothing special, but still decent.  DCUO is like playing a super fast game of rock paper scissors with the block / block breaker / leap system and is actually quite engaging.

    Anyway I'm getting off-topic here.  Someone said the combat involves tactics.  That's good.  However, I watched a video of the Ifrit battle (maybe a bad example?) and it seems like there is very little to the fight except burn down the adds when they spawn.  The boss never really does anything interesting that causes a change in play style.

    Also, kiting != dodging.  Dodging is a reaction.  Kiting can be macroed.

    Sorry folks.  Some of my thoughts might be a bit garbled here.  Just frustrated because I could definitely see this as a world I could call home, but I have serious doubts as to how enjoyable the actual game play will be for me... And when the combat puts me to sleep I tend to stop playing.

  • mcrippinsmcrippins Dallas, TXPosts: 1,071Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Impulse47
    Originally posted by skyexile

     


    Originally posted by Impulse47
    First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

     

    If GW2, Tera and DCUO combat is so good, why arnt you playing them?

    Do you actually care to hear my reasons, or was this rhetorical?  I assure you in each case, it had nothing to do with the respective combat systems.

    Seems like the newer action combat style mmos are what you're looking for. This game doesn't have that in regards to a combat system, but it has plenty of other features that don't even make me think of the combat. 

     

    When did we as a gamer society stop accepting games for what they are, and start demanding they be tailored to our personal desires? So sad.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by mcrippins

    When did we as a gamer society stop accepting games for what they are, and start demanding they be tailored to our personal desires? So sad.

    I think these forums went active in about 2004.    :)

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,561Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Impulse47

    To answer a few replies to this thread:  No, no other Final Fantasy game has had active dodging, but comparing this to other Final Fantasies (aside from XI) is crazy anyway. 

    Actually it is very similar to final fantasy 12s combat.  And all the final fantasies had global cool downs thats what the ATB system is.  Final Fantasy 15 will be the first final fantasy to have action combat with dodging and all. 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBilT83Uq4A

     

  • LeGrosGamerLeGrosGamer Canada, QCPosts: 210Member
    Originally posted by Impulse47
    First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

    Sorry, but when I hear the name Final Fantasy, first thing that comes to mind is the turned based battles. Which defined Final Fantasy through the years (20+ years).  Seeing this battle system being like any other MMO is a turn off for me, Final Fantasy or not.  How can you name a game Final Fantasy without it being turned base?   FairyLand looks pretty dull BUT at least they got the turned based battle right, which got me hooked up for a few years!    I can already see the party finder chat looking a bit like this : LF Wizard 3K+ HP  400+ DPS with spiky hat! .     Ugh, this reminds me so much of the month of hell I had to endure in Ragnarok Online 2. hehe :)

  • Impulse47Impulse47 St. Louis, MOPosts: 158Member Common
    Originally posted by tkreep
    Originally posted by Impulse47

    To answer a few replies to this thread:  No, no other Final Fantasy game has had active dodging, but comparing this to other Final Fantasies (aside from XI) is crazy anyway. 

    Actually it is very similar to final fantasy 12s combat.  And all the final fantasies had global cool downs thats what the ATB system is.  Final Fantasy 15 will be the first final fantasy to have action combat with dodging and all. 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBilT83Uq4A

     

    That looks awesome.  Thanks for the link.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Fresno, CAPosts: 4,179Member Uncommon

    Combat I found fine - a bit slow to pick up, but not intolerable, and fairly engaging once you get your character well rounded and developed.

    The gathering, on the other hand - possibly worse than EvE mining, if that's even possible.

  • SoraksisSoraksis Havelock, NCPosts: 288Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by simsalabim77
    The combat doesn't suddenly become amazing at any point. You get some more buttons to press, and apparently you get to press them faster if you have enough of a certain stat. If you think having more buttons to press slightly faster would make the combat better, then yes, it gets good. If not, then I'm afraid you're never going to enjoy combat. 

    Thats not entirely accurate.  As  you progress sure you get more skills so you have more buttons to mash.  If you only look at it through a soloists eyes.  If you plan on grouping and running the instances then combat does suddenly become amazing.  You have to start using your skills intelligently not randomly,  because at that point you are now getting into the limit breaks.  Which require you to roll your skills out in strategic strings with your group mates to achieve some really awesome attacks.  But even still thats not for everyone.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Impulse47
    First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

    It's using oldschool FF rules. Maybe you're remembering some of those games a bit differently?

    I don't necessarily disagree, but it's more action-oriented than FFXI, but FF is still not a game that has ever really been know for it's robust combat mechanics. It's had a few games with some interesting mechanics (job system / materia system), but it's always been the story & the visuals that carried this IP. FFXIV is no different, even after the revamp.

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,561Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by LeGrosGamer
    Originally posted by Impulse47
    First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

    Sorry, but when I hear the name Final Fantasy, first thing that comes to mind is the turned based battles. Which defined Final Fantasy through the years (20+ years).  Seeing this battle system being like any other MMO is a turn off for me, Final Fantasy or not.  How can you name a game Final Fantasy without it being turned base?   FairyLand looks pretty dull BUT at least they got the turned based battle right, which got me hooked up for a few years!    I can already see the party finder chat looking a bit like this : LF Wizard 3K+ HP  400+ DPS with spiky hat! .     Ugh, this reminds me so much of the month of hell I had to endure in Ragnarok Online 2. hehe :)

    FInal Fantasy stopped being turn-based since they implemented the ATB system which was in Final Fantasy 4 but they did let you choose between two different modes Active mode and Wait mode but wait mode pretty much takes the whole point of the ATB system away since the system is meant to be the global cooldowns for both enemy and player party members which is what traditional mmo combat is based on:

    There are usually two settings to ATB, Active mode and Wait mode. In Active mode, time flows regardless of what is going on in game. In Wait mode, time stops when the player is navigating menus

    http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_System

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Impulse47
    First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

    How many buttons do you hit at level 10 in TERA?

    in Wow?

    or what ever other game you are comparing this game to.

    1-4 buttons?

    This game has the same amount.

    I've played  TERA, GW2, and their combat systems are quite similar. 

    I don't understand why people play new games and then try to compare level 1-20 to level 50-90 on whatever game they were playing, but that seems to happen all the time...

  • AmbassadorDvinnAmbassadorDvinn Cleveland, OHPosts: 339Member Uncommon

    Yes, OP - the combat is very boring and doesn't get better.  People say to play it up into the 20s (which I did) and is supposed to get better.  Well, I played it into the 20s and played the dungeons.  The combat is still terrible.  I played several class up to the 15-25 range and experienced bland gameplay with all of them.

    I know there's readers out there thinking as they read this "but it's a progression game!" and I get that, but I'm not playing 20 hours, bored out of my mind, to find the eventual fun in this combat system.  I refuse to waste my time in another WoW fetch'em quest hub game with no new innovations.  I just can't do it.  I wish I could - I love Final Fantasy.  Sad, really.

    I'm not a sheep to be ushered through mindless gameplay mechanics that is presented to me as a themepark ride.  I can't do it anymore.

     

    Serious death penalties makes every close call an adrenaline rush, and every minor achievement a major victory. This alternative rule-set should be in all MMORPGs.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AmbassadorDvinn

    Yes, OP - the combat is very boring and doesn't get better.  People say to play it up into the 20s (which I did) and is supposed to get better.  Well, I played it into the 20s and played the dungeons.  The combat is still terrible.  It's basically the original Everquest combat without fun spell choices (the cool fancy ones that don't really have much to do with combat).  I played several class up to the 15-25 range and experienced bland gameplay with all of them.

    I know there's readers out there thinking as they read this "but it's a progression game!" and I get that, but I'm not playing 20 hours, bored out of my mind, to find the eventual fun in this combat system.  I refuse to waste my time in another WoW fetch'em quest hub game with no new innovations.  I just can't do it.  I wish I could - I love Final Fantasy.  Sad, really.

     

    What did you not l enjoy about the combat?

    What did you think was worse in this game (combat wise) than other games?

    What class did you play?

    Where did you see a quest hub?  (I'm curious, I've never seen even one of them)

    Lets see hub

     (himageb)n.

    1. The center part of a wheel, fan, or propeller.

    2. A center of activity or interest; a focal point.

    I've seen towns in the game, where you can get quests, that lead you from place to place, but none of this 'hub' you speak of, no centralized location where you repeatedly go to to get more quests and turn them back in, the quests in 14 lead you from place to place telling you a story, also you CANNOT quest to level cap, how is this a quest hub game?  Its not...

     

     

  • Impulse47Impulse47 St. Louis, MOPosts: 158Member Common
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Impulse47
    First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

    How many buttons do you hit at level 10 in TERA?

    in Wow?

    or what ever other game you are comparing this game to.

    1-4 buttons?

    This game has the same amount.

    I've played  TERA, GW2, and their combat systems are quite similar. 

    I don't understand why people play new games and then try to compare level 1-20 to level 50-90 on whatever game they were playing, but that seems to happen all the time...

    This was never a discussion about the number of skills early / late game.

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