Originally posted by John_Grimm Well, i know one game that is like that, Eve Online, most of its space can be used by any lvl char.
That's because EVE has no levels. Wasted "zones" are an attribute of level base games. UO and EVE are two that did not have this issue because they did not have levels.
Eve cannot be included in this discussion at all. EVE has literally no content. Each sector of space has a planet that is for all intents and purposes a texture in the background, a few moons, and some asteroids. All the ships you encounter are the same ships as everywhere else, just different names.
Creating content in EVE is nothing at all even remotely in the same realm as creating content for a standard MMO.
And yes, EVE "wastes" plenty of zones. Pretty much 95% of the zones in the game have nobody in them, yet Jita will have several hundred people at once. Its just like any other MMO in that respect.
That is a lot of nonsense if you ask me. Eve has tons of content, just that many people are risk adverse and don't like going into some of more risky areas. As to npcs, they are quite varied and have become even more so. You are obviously one of those risk adverse types, who have not tried some of the risky npc interactions in the game let alone having to engage a human opponent.
Eve University is a great example of where you go wrong. They take rookies right into the thick of the pvp areas.
Originally posted by Letsinod This is where EQ1 got it so right. There were many level ranges of mobs in each zone. Spectres to docks anyone? Giants also. You would often have high level toons leveling next to newbs in some areas.
EQ got it right? That really made me laugh. At least EQ had some difficulty, but when you get down to it, it was the poster child for all the current theme parks out there today. It's competition was UO and AC which did not have zones so EQ basically invented the idea of different level zones for different levels.
The problem with zones, they are inherent when you have levels and levels are tied to the theme park design. To remove zones for specific levels would require a huge redesign of a game. No developer would take that on.
If really have to have a sandbox design to remove the zones. Where character levels are meaningless or nonexistent.
That is about the narrowest view of a sandbox I have ever heard.
- Sandboxes can have levels
A skill system is exactly the same concept at its most basic. You can't kill this mob until you are lvl 10. You cannot kill this mob unless you have a skill of 100 in something. They are both mathematical benchmarks/expressions of what you content you can or cannot participate in.
- Sandboxes can have zones and instances
I mean.....what? Seemless zones is a construction preference not a game mechanic.
I swear, as long as people hold to these ideals as if they were canon, biblical truth......well, let's just say, we wouldn't have Heath Ledgers' Joker with that attitude.
I have never felt the usage and utility of zones in MMORPGs as I have in EQ. Starting out as a wood elf druid in Kelethin I could take off and travel the land, across the sea and to the the other side of the world at ANY TIME, which I did at lvl 12. Sure, it was dangerous, long and at times not exciting, but traveling can be like that and without the negatives I'd have nothing to judge the amazing adventure/exploration/friends and leveling I had against. There were no teleport devices or ship cutscenes and thats what helped make it feel like a vast world. You could get quests in your starting city for objectives 2 or three zones away, and many quests for high level characters could be found in lower end zones. Like many have mentioned mobs werent segregated purely by zone level and you could get stomped easily by a giant if you went afk in the wrong place in the Common Lands or didnt watch the horizon for griffons while fighting simple orc grunts. And one thing that gave me satisfaction at higher levels was getting revenge on those giants and griffons, or saving lower level players who had no intention of seeking their wrath. Just cant really find that seriousness and the importance of awareness in most MMORPGs anymore. So I think the number one thing is : Dont seperate zones by levels, make leveled content that fits the geography and organization of your zones.
Originally posted by Battlerock So how big is the firefall world lets compare it to azeroth?
FF is about the size of the (pre cata) barrens. Funny eh? I laughed
Originally posted by black_isle Is this a weekly Firefall advertisement column or just a dev writing a general column who also happens to be working on a game? This shameless advertising disguised as a column is becoming very irritating.
R5 is nothing if not a MAJOR hype machine. They spend more time and money on "live action trailers" than they do on their damn game lol.
Originally posted by black_isle Is this a weekly Firefall advertisement column or just a dev writing a general column who also happens to be working on a game? This shameless advertising disguised as a column is becoming very irritating.
Take a look at Darkfall. We use and re-use every piece of what they made everyday. MMO's don't have to be this thing you make them out to be. Leveling with zones it's not what we want or need we need new things like Darkfall.
I think that this is one of the reasons I still enjoy GW2 even after a year of being introduced to it. I still go back to *lowbie* zones and play due to dailies, dynamic world bosses, gathering, or even roleplaying.
I love theme park mmo's and good story don't get me wrong but i also agree with the article. Theme park mmo's just cant contain player long term and why i think the answer for mmo's is return to the niche market of the sandbox. Look at the hours of star wars galaxies pre-NGE alone. No levels just billion possible outcomes and if your tired of the grind decorate house or even a city. SWG is just one example but part the issue is gear and levels and not exploration to point player sits back and enjoys that area. All these fancy graphics nowadays yet we rush thru instead of being amazed in aww.
Those zones are specifically created by devs to be gone through in only a few hours. It's your fault, not ours. Its time to hire people that can actually write. People that are actually gamers. Its time for devs to listen to what gamers ask for and stop making it so that its a linear game that can be done in only a week. We don't need to move on to the next area that quickly and we wouldn't have to if more thought were put into it.
lol wow is dead you can finish a lvl 90 in 4-7 days they are even bleeding cash trying to keep that game alive from what ive herd they arent going to keep it around they are makeing wow2 so they can get rid of all the fails they have made since lichking all they have done is make worse and worse expansions
Originally posted by Sanguinelust I can't remember if Anarchy Online had one when it came out
Yup... the oldschool backyards, and they're still there, just unused unless you're bored and wandering. It's all noob island > shadowlands now, RK is for froobs XD
Comments
That is a lot of nonsense if you ask me. Eve has tons of content, just that many people are risk adverse and don't like going into some of more risky areas. As to npcs, they are quite varied and have become even more so. You are obviously one of those risk adverse types, who have not tried some of the risky npc interactions in the game let alone having to engage a human opponent.
Eve University is a great example of where you go wrong. They take rookies right into the thick of the pvp areas.
That is about the narrowest view of a sandbox I have ever heard.
- Sandboxes can have levels
A skill system is exactly the same concept at its most basic. You can't kill this mob until you are lvl 10. You cannot kill this mob unless you have a skill of 100 in something. They are both mathematical benchmarks/expressions of what you content you can or cannot participate in.
- Sandboxes can have zones and instances
I mean.....what? Seemless zones is a construction preference not a game mechanic.
I swear, as long as people hold to these ideals as if they were canon, biblical truth......well, let's just say, we wouldn't have Heath Ledgers' Joker with that attitude.
FF is about the size of the (pre cata) barrens. Funny eh? I laughed
R5 is nothing if not a MAJOR hype machine. They spend more time and money on "live action trailers" than they do on their damn game lol.
Originally posted by black_isle
Is this a weekly Firefall advertisement column or just a dev writing a general column who also happens to be working on a game? This shameless advertising disguised as a column is becoming very irritating.
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Agreed, R5 is nothing if not a MAJOR hype machine. They spend more time and money on "live action trailers" than they do on their damn game lol.
"I am handicapped...I'm psychotic."
Demon King
Yup... the oldschool backyards, and they're still there, just unused unless you're bored and wandering. It's all noob island > shadowlands now, RK is for froobs XD