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I think it is time

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  • Starbuck1771Starbuck1771 Member UncommonPosts: 375

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/07/02/ccp-taps-ea-s-sean-decker-as-new-vp-of-product-development/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Massively+(Massively)

    The company referenced Decker's extensive industry experience as a valuable asset in helping guide EVE Online through its next 10 years and in ensuring growth through the eventually-maybe launch of World of Darkness and the expansion of DUST 514. Decker will be based out of CCP's Atlanta studio.

     

    Says a lot to me.

    image
  • furbansfurbans Member UncommonPosts: 968
    Originally posted by Squeak69
    didn't eve try to go F2P a while back and the players revolted?

    Don't think so.  The only debaticle I recall is the supossive P2W MT store where one could buy skills or something and there was a rage protest thread and people going off playing that mech game that was pretty much a copycat of EVE essentially, Pend-something-or-other.

     

  • Starbuck1771Starbuck1771 Member UncommonPosts: 375
    Originally posted by furbans
    Originally posted by Squeak69
    didn't eve try to go F2P a while back and the players revolted?

    Don't think so.  The only debaticle I recall is the supossive P2W MT store where one could buy skills or something and there was a rage protest thread and people going off playing that mech game that was pretty much a copycat of EVE essentially, Pend-something-or-other.

     

    http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/2672

    Virtual Goods

    Next we arrive at our rather underwhelming virtual goods rollout. There was hardly anything to purchase initially, let alone to put the cost of the infamous monocle in perspective. The last thing we wanted to do was create the perception that all items in the store would be in that price range. Quite frankly, it was rather pointless to begin with because we did not have a multiuser environment in which players could show off their purchases. It was another feature that we rushed out the door before it was ready.

    We also didn’t do enough to assure you that this wasn’t the beginning of a “pay to win” scenario in EVE. Let me be blunt: Unless the MMO business changes radically, our virtual goods strategy for EVE Online will remain limited in scope and focus on vanity items, or as we said after the CSM visit this summer: The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.

    Though the introduction was clearly flawed, our plans for virtual goods are intended to make your playing experience better, not to disrupt it. From a strategic perspective, we had to take these first steps because monthly subscriptions are increasingly becoming a thing of the past. The culture of online gaming is changing, just as the notion of digital ownership did with music. If we don’t evolve our technology, our game design and our revenue model, then we risk obsolescence, and we just can’t allow that to happen to EVE or to our community.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    However no statement saying they would never go F2P.

    image
  • ChramChram Member Posts: 91
    Originally posted by Starbuck1771
    Originally posted by furbans
    Originally posted by Squeak69
    didn't eve try to go F2P a while back and the players revolted?

    Don't think so.  The only debaticle I recall is the supossive P2W MT store where one could buy skills or something and there was a rage protest thread and people going off playing that mech game that was pretty much a copycat of EVE essentially, Pend-something-or-other.

     

    http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/2672

    Virtual Goods

    Next we arrive at our rather underwhelming virtual goods rollout. There was hardly anything to purchase initially, let alone to put the cost of the infamous monocle in perspective. The last thing we wanted to do was create the perception that all items in the store would be in that price range. Quite frankly, it was rather pointless to begin with because we did not have a multiuser environment in which players could show off their purchases. It was another feature that we rushed out the door before it was ready.

    We also didn’t do enough to assure you that this wasn’t the beginning of a “pay to win” scenario in EVE. Let me be blunt: Unless the MMO business changes radically, our virtual goods strategy for EVE Online will remain limited in scope and focus on vanity items, or as we said after the CSM visit this summer: The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.

    Though the introduction was clearly flawed, our plans for virtual goods are intended to make your playing experience better, not to disrupt it. From a strategic perspective, we had to take these first steps because monthly subscriptions are increasingly becoming a thing of the past. The culture of online gaming is changing, just as the notion of digital ownership did with music. If we don’t evolve our technology, our game design and our revenue model, then we risk obsolescence, and we just can’t allow that to happen to EVE or to our community.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    However no statement saying they would never go F2P.

    Putin also never stated he won't invade the US. Surely such thing must be imminent then.

    (They are keeping options open, obviously, no responsible company shuts such doors forever. If the industry evolves such that the change will be necessary, it will come. But it is nowhere near that point now.)

  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297
    Originally posted by Starbuck1771
    Originally posted by Malcanis
    Originally posted by Starbuck1771
    That EVE goes F2P. Get fresh blood in the game after all why should Dust be free if we are not. On top of that the game is a decade old and has become to repeatative. If they go the same way that Rift did they could make a fortune. Just in the past three days alone I have spent $120.00 on Rift.

     

    CCP already make a fortune on PLEX. Why would they throw away all their subscription income (which is rising) and all the PLEX income, and commit to the huge development project that it would require to change EVE enough to implement "real" F2P, and see a huge percentage of their current playerbase simply leave?

    Changing to F2P is for subscription games that are dying. EVE is growing.

    PLEX is a step torward F2P. Look at Rift it has REX. Clearly by CCP's own admission they have been trying to convert to F2P but have failed time and again. However now CCP has Sean Decker. 

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=254876

    PLEX already provides a "F2P" that supports the game and doesn't break it in the numerous ways that 'normal' F2P would. If you want to play EVE for free, you just need to come up with the going rate for someone else to pay for your account, which is around 550M ISK per month. If you have time on your hands, then this is a pretty trivial amount of ISK to make.

    I'm prepared to bet you personally that EVE won't go "F2P" anytime soon. You pick a time frame and how much you want to bet.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • WicoaWicoa Member UncommonPosts: 1,637
    While their subscription base remains stable and imo quite high. I really don't see F2P even in 5 years. Plus they keep upgrading the graphics so it stays current with technology.
  • HulluckHulluck Member UncommonPosts: 839

    In response to what someone said about needing to be a vet for plex earlier on in the thread. That's simply not true.

    Six  to seven million sp (actually less if one doesn't  train none related stuff. Which I did a lot of "oh that looks neat train it!) is more than enough to play Eve for free doing lvl 4's a few days out of the month.  That's only one way and definitely not the most effective way to make enough isk for Plex as a newish player.  I doubt CCP has changed lvl 4's that much with the latest update.  Raven's were probably the best and most forgiving ship to fly as a new and low sp pilot while being able to do 4's at a decent pace. I haven't played since last Sept. So I am not fully up to speed on the newer changes. That said.

    Game knowledge is honestly the main thing holding new players back from earning enough isk to buy Plex  or do anything for that matter. Not time played. Earning enough isk for Plex is trivial. There's just so many different ways to do it solo or in a group. If a tackler in a pvp group for instance one can make what fast mission runners make over the course of  a week in just one good group engagement.   A new player can start tackling a few hours in after joining the game if I am not mistaken.  However long it takes to train web, scrambler, ab skills.  Which isn't very long if memory serves me right.

     

     

  • luro16luro16 Member Posts: 86
    If they go free to play how can they keep their business model of people buying multiple accounts going?
  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297
    Originally posted by Hulluck

    In response to what someone said about needing to be a vet for plex earlier on in the thread. That's simply not true.

    Six  to seven million sp (actually less if one doesn't  train none related stuff. Which I did a lot of "oh that looks neat train it!) is more than enough to play Eve for free doing lvl 4's a few days out of the month.  That's only one way and definitely not the most effective way to make enough isk for Plex as a newish player.  I doubt CCP has changed lvl 4's that much with the latest update.  Raven's were probably the best and most forgiving ship to fly as a new and low sp pilot while being able to do 4's at a decent pace. I haven't played since last Sept. So I am not fully up to speed on the newer changes. That said.

    Game knowledge is honestly the main thing holding new players back from earning enough isk to buy Plex  or do anything for that matter. Not time played. Earning enough isk for Plex is trivial. There's just so many different ways to do it solo or in a group. If a tackler in a pvp group for instance one can make what fast mission runners make over the course of  a week in just one good group engagement.   A new player can start tackling a few hours in after joining the game if I am not mistaken.  However long it takes to train web, scrambler, ab skills.  Which isn't very long if memory serves me right.

     

     

    In fact Ravens got a huge effective buff with the new Cruise Missiles. As did Domis.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • HulluckHulluck Member UncommonPosts: 839
    Originally posted by Malcanis
    Originally posted by Hulluck

    In response to what someone said about needing to be a vet for plex earlier on in the thread. That's simply not true.

    Six  to seven million sp (actually less if one doesn't  train none related stuff. Which I did a lot of "oh that looks neat train it!) is more than enough to play Eve for free doing lvl 4's a few days out of the month.  That's only one way and definitely not the most effective way to make enough isk for Plex as a newish player.  I doubt CCP has changed lvl 4's that much with the latest update.  Raven's were probably the best and most forgiving ship to fly as a new and low sp pilot while being able to do 4's at a decent pace. I haven't played since last Sept. So I am not fully up to speed on the newer changes. That said.

    Game knowledge is honestly the main thing holding new players back from earning enough isk to buy Plex  or do anything for that matter. Not time played. Earning enough isk for Plex is trivial. There's just so many different ways to do it solo or in a group. If a tackler in a pvp group for instance one can make what fast mission runners make over the course of  a week in just one good group engagement.   A new player can start tackling a few hours in after joining the game if I am not mistaken.  However long it takes to train web, scrambler, ab skills.  Which isn't very long if memory serves me right.

     

     

    In fact Ravens got a huge effective buff with the new Cruise Missiles. As did Domis.

    Did you win a CSM seat or has that happened yet? I think I remember you were running for it?

    As far as changes, I didn't know that. Guess that carries over to the CNR as well? Last time I played was Sept.  Been thinking about going back. What changes did they do to 4's? I remember reading  something like drones being targeted a lot more? I never used painters so i really relied on my drones for anti tacklers.  I rather plug resist holes and simply for more EHP.

    All I'd probably do is pve, exploration, trading.  Keep to myself for the most part.  I just don't think I got it in me to try and invest the time to get through the meta game which might allow me to join a good, stable pvp / .0 corp. Not because I don't like pvp. Just to much of a hassle but it's understandable given what's at stake for well established corps/ alliances.

     

  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297

    Yes I did get elected. I can't claim any credit for the Cruise Missile changes though - that happened just before the results were announced. Basically Cruise Missiles got a flat +25% damage increase, and all the launchers got a 5% RoF increase. There was a small decrease to explosion velocity. Basically a +30% DPS increase. Also they gained a lot of speed and lost some flight time; range is about the time, but delay to damage has been reduced by ~1/3. The practical upshot is that you don't need to count volleys within 80Km or so.

    All the Cruise missile BS have about the same raw missile DPS, with different characteristics

    Normal Ravens are smaller, considerably faster, dropped a utility high for an extra midslot for additional tankage.

    CNRs are smaller/faster, and got an 8th launcher. They lost the RoF bonus in favour of a precision bonus and now they're absolute monsters for PvE. Mine has a volley damage of 7840. I can two-shot rat BS if they're the weaker ones; the rest take 3.

    There's also the Navy Scorp which gets 6 launchers + 5% RoF bonus, a Resist bonus and 8 mids.

    There's also the Typhoon which gets 6 launchers with a +7.5%/level damage bonus - it does the most raw DPS with 8.25 effective launchers - and an explosion velocity bonus.

    Basically, it's good times for Cruise Missiles.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • HulluckHulluck Member UncommonPosts: 839
    Originally posted by Malcanis

    Yes I did get elected. I can't claim any credit for the Cruise Missile changes though - that happened just before the results were announced. Basically Cruise Missiles got a flat +25% damage increase, and all the launchers got a 5% RoF increase. There was a small decrease to explosion velocity. Basically a +30% DPS increase. Also they gained a lot of speed and lost some flight time; range is about the time, but delay to damage has been reduced by ~1/3. The practical upshot is that you don't need to count volleys within 80Km or so.

    All the Cruise missile BS have about the same raw missile DPS, with different characteristics

    Normal Ravens are smaller, considerably faster, dropped a utility high for an extra midslot for additional tankage.

    CNRs are smaller/faster, and got an 8th launcher. They lost the RoF bonus in favour of a precision bonus and now they're absolute monsters for PvE. Mine has a volley damage of 7840. I can two-shot rat BS if they're the weaker ones; the rest take 3.

    There's also the Navy Scorp which gets 6 launchers + 5% RoF bonus, a Resist bonus and 8 mids.

    There's also the Typhoon which gets 6 launchers with a +7.5%/level damage bonus - it does the most raw DPS with 8.25 effective launchers - and an explosion velocity bonus.

    Basically, it's good times for Cruise Missiles.

     Been a reader here for awhile and you've always made good posts from what I have seen.  Even remember reading some of your stuff on the Eve-O forums which were always good reads. All in all seemed like you were a good person for a CSM seat. Basically why I asked.  Been playing on and off since 04 with long breaks. Just stupidly low SP character for it's age. Talking somewhere around 10 mill I think? Definitely not over 15.

    Thanks for the info. I know I was being lazy, sorry. Depending on if I find anything in the Steam SS it might be time to revisit. You peaked my interest. lmao.

     

     

  • HazelleHazelle Member Posts: 760
    Originally posted by Starbuck1771

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/07/02/ccp-taps-ea-s-sean-decker-as-new-vp-of-product-development/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Massively+(Massively)

    The company referenced Decker's extensive industry experience as a valuable asset in helping guide EVE Online through its next 10 years and in ensuring growth through the eventually-maybe launch of World of Darkness and the expansion of DUST 514. Decker will be based out of CCP's Atlanta studio.

     

    Says a lot to me.

    There's no secret that when it comes to making extra cash on the side CCP can't be trusted to know what's right and wrong, anyone remember their special painted spaceship without an industry trade in?  Even some members of the CSM were on board for that one, but what happened?  The players complained and CCP backed off.

    I don't trust CCP, but I feel that CCP will not ignore 500,000 voices of dissent.

    CCP has a clear mandate from their eve online customers at the threat of a massive loss of income should they choose to ignore that mandate.  Perhaps there will be a time when they can afford to ignore the 500,000 voices, but that time isn't in the foreseeable future and when that time comes I might stick around and I might not, I didn't when SOE rolled out the NGE.

  • Starbuck1771Starbuck1771 Member UncommonPosts: 375
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Starbuck1771

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/07/02/ccp-taps-ea-s-sean-decker-as-new-vp-of-product-development/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Massively+(Massively)

    The company referenced Decker's extensive industry experience as a valuable asset in helping guide EVE Online through its next 10 years and in ensuring growth through the eventually-maybe launch of World of Darkness and the expansion of DUST 514. Decker will be based out of CCP's Atlanta studio.

     

    Says a lot to me.

    There's no secret that when it comes to making extra cash on the side CCP can't be trusted to know what's right and wrong, anyone remember their special painted spaceship without an industry trade in?  Even some members of the CSM were on board for that one, but what happened?  The players complained and CCP backed off.

    I don't trust CCP, but I feel that CCP will not ignore 500,000 voices of dissent.

    CCP has a clear mandate from their eve online customers at the threat of a massive loss of income should they choose to ignore that mandate.  Perhaps there will be a time when they can afford to ignore the 500,000 voices, but that time isn't in the foreseeable future and when that time comes I might stick around and I might not, I didn't when SOE rolled out the NGE.

    They thing is I bet there are not 500,000 voices. A lot of that amount will be alt accounts or inactive accounts. I actualy have 6 accounts myself.

    image
  • ChrisboxChrisbox Member UncommonPosts: 1,729
    They have never gone down in subs, why on earth would they.  

    Played-Everything
    Playing-LoL

  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297
    Originally posted by Hulluck
    Originally posted by Malcanis

    Yes I did get elected. I can't claim any credit for the Cruise Missile changes though - that happened just before the results were announced. Basically Cruise Missiles got a flat +25% damage increase, and all the launchers got a 5% RoF increase. There was a small decrease to explosion velocity. Basically a +30% DPS increase. Also they gained a lot of speed and lost some flight time; range is about the time, but delay to damage has been reduced by ~1/3. The practical upshot is that you don't need to count volleys within 80Km or so.

    All the Cruise missile BS have about the same raw missile DPS, with different characteristics

    Normal Ravens are smaller, considerably faster, dropped a utility high for an extra midslot for additional tankage.

    CNRs are smaller/faster, and got an 8th launcher. They lost the RoF bonus in favour of a precision bonus and now they're absolute monsters for PvE. Mine has a volley damage of 7840. I can two-shot rat BS if they're the weaker ones; the rest take 3.

    There's also the Navy Scorp which gets 6 launchers + 5% RoF bonus, a Resist bonus and 8 mids.

    There's also the Typhoon which gets 6 launchers with a +7.5%/level damage bonus - it does the most raw DPS with 8.25 effective launchers - and an explosion velocity bonus.

    Basically, it's good times for Cruise Missiles.

     Been a reader here for awhile and you've always made good posts from what I have seen.  Even remember reading some of your stuff on the Eve-O forums which were always good reads. All in all seemed like you were a good person for a CSM seat. Basically why I asked.  Been playing on and off since 04 with long breaks. Just stupidly low SP character for it's age. Talking somewhere around 10 mill I think? Definitely not over 15.

    Thanks for the info. I know I was being lazy, sorry. Depending on if I find anything in the Steam SS it might be time to revisit. You peaked my interest. lmao.

     

    CCP send out resubscription offers quite often. Check the email you used to register your account with, there might be a 5-day free offer there. 10M SP isn't a huge amount but it definitely beats starting over - you can always redo the tutorials at any time.

    In fact definitely do the tutorials. A lot has been changed and updated in the last couple of years.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • firefly2003firefly2003 Member UncommonPosts: 2,527
    Originally posted by Malcanis
    Originally posted by Starbuck1771
    That EVE goes F2P. Get fresh blood in the game after all why should Dust be free if we are not. On top of that the game is a decade old and has become to repeatative. If they go the same way that Rift did they could make a fortune. Just in the past three days alone I have spent $120.00 on Rift.

     

    CCP already make a fortune on PLEX. Why would they throw away all their subscription income (which is rising) and all the PLEX income, and commit to the huge development project that it would require to change EVE enough to implement "real" F2P, and see a huge percentage of their current playerbase simply leave?

    Changing to F2P is for subscription games that are dying. EVE is growing.

    That and the fact 90% of the F2P players couldn't handle EVE to begin with.


  • HazelleHazelle Member Posts: 760
    Originally posted by Starbuck1771
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Starbuck1771

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/07/02/ccp-taps-ea-s-sean-decker-as-new-vp-of-product-development/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Massively+(Massively)

    The company referenced Decker's extensive industry experience as a valuable asset in helping guide EVE Online through its next 10 years and in ensuring growth through the eventually-maybe launch of World of Darkness and the expansion of DUST 514. Decker will be based out of CCP's Atlanta studio.

     

    Says a lot to me.

    There's no secret that when it comes to making extra cash on the side CCP can't be trusted to know what's right and wrong, anyone remember their special painted spaceship without an industry trade in?  Even some members of the CSM were on board for that one, but what happened?  The players complained and CCP backed off.

    I don't trust CCP, but I feel that CCP will not ignore 500,000 voices of dissent.

    CCP has a clear mandate from their eve online customers at the threat of a massive loss of income should they choose to ignore that mandate.  Perhaps there will be a time when they can afford to ignore the 500,000 voices, but that time isn't in the foreseeable future and when that time comes I might stick around and I might not, I didn't when SOE rolled out the NGE.

    They thing is I bet there are not 500,000 voices. A lot of that amount will be alt accounts or inactive accounts. I actualy have 6 accounts myself.

    Inactive accounts are not sub'd to the game so they don't count so 500k subs means 500k subs not 500k accounts.

    Whether it's 500k individual people or a few big fat whales doesn't even matter because, at this point, CCP needs sub money and they need people like me (and probably you) to buy plex on the ingame market; infact as a buyer of plex ingame I'm more valuable to CCP than when I payed a sub since a sub costs 15 dollars and a plex costs 20.

    The F2P payment scheme only earns money if the game can attract enough high rollers or whales to pay for everyone else's time without doing too much damage to everyone's ingame experience which is especially true in a competitive game such as ours.  CCP can only roll out F2P if they are willing to gamble that they can make more money on whales without needing the subs or those that currently feed off the whales.

    The real danger isn't a full blown free to play scheme so much as a creeping corruption that can occur with eve's noble exchange store.

  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297

    Seriously though, to anyone with any appreciation of how EVE actually works, the idea of trying to make it into a traditional F2P is just laughable. It's just not structured that way.

    Fortunately it's doing really well as a sub game so the question is moot. Failing games transition to F2P, not successful ones. If EVE did a TOR-style plunge to 1/6 of its current subscriptions, CCP might take it F2P, but tbh I doubt they'd bother even then.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

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