Thinking about the AH from a crafters POV

DzoneDzone bowling green, KYMember UncommonPosts: 371

In ffxi, i crafted a bit later in the game and here are some of my experiances. The crafting guild's had several matt's we could use, but they could run out of stock. Sometimes the matts were cheaper to just buy from farmers/gatherers from the AH. I used to buy all my crafting matts from the AH.

 

I was a leatherworker. The final product i would put like 2/3 pieces of equipment on the AH, and they would sell ocationally. FFXI was a gear heavy game, and lot of competition between crafters.

 

Peaple used the AH everyday, it was a major part of the game, from buying equipment, foods, crafting meterials, medicines, amunition. I loved how active the AH was in ffxi.

 

 

Now my early experiance as a crafter in FFXIV arr. I started goldsmithing and i bought all of my matts directly from the guild shop for dirt cheap. The guild never runs outa stock. I leveld the craft pretty quickly. Ran outa crystal shards though, dont really know how to get more of them. PPL say they drop offa mobs, but i havn't goten any shards while fighting stuff.

 

I havn't tried selling anything yet, since the AH isn't implemented yet, but i dont think stuff will sell as much on the AH with the way npc's and quest's gives so much gear.

 

Im beginning to wonder if the crafters and AH will be an importent part of the game as it was in ffxi.

 

How have ya's experiances with crafting gone?

Comments

  • CymdaiCymdai Raleigh, NCMember UncommonPosts: 1,041

    Here's the problem with crafting: It's too easy.

    Between the incredible monotony AND simplicity of gathering :

    1) All the nodes are within 50 meters of each other per 5 levels,

    2) There's no challenge or shortage of materials,

    3) It's incredibly boring,

    4) There's no diminishing returns,

    5) It's so cheap to buy ingredients from the AH that there's no purpose in gathering)

     

    I can't see there being a big profit in it. I'm sure HQ gear will always be a factor, but for like 500 gil, you can buy 250 ore. That's roughly 80 ingots, for 10ish levels worth of crating materials. Or, you could go mine for maybe 15 minutes and acquire about the same amount of ore. The point being, there's no reason not to just do everything yourself. And that's the problem.

    Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...

  • twruletwrule Daly City, CAMember Posts: 1,251

    Originally posted by Dzone

    In ffxi, i crafted a bit later in the game and here are some of my experiances. The crafting guild's had several matt's we could use, but they could run out of stock. Sometimes the matts were cheaper to just buy from farmers/gatherers from the AH. I used to buy all my crafting matts from the AH. I was a leatherworker. The final product i would put like 2/3 pieces of equipment on the AH, and they would sell ocationally. FFXI was a gear heavy game, and lot of competition between crafters. Peaple used the AH everyday, it was a major part of the game, from buying equipment, foods, crafting meterials, medicines, amunition. I loved how active the AH was in ffxi. Now my early experiance as a crafter in FFXIV arr. I started goldsmithing and i bought all of my matts directly from the guild shop for dirt cheap. The guild never runs outa stock. I leveld the craft pretty quickly. Ran outa crystal shards though, dont really know how to get more of them. PPL say they drop offa mobs, but i havn't goten any shards while fighting stuff. I havn't tried selling anything yet, since the AH isn't implemented yet, but i dont think stuff will sell as much on the AH with the way npc's and quest's gives so much gear. Im beginning to wonder if the crafters and AH will be an importent part of the game as it was in ffxi. How have ya's experiances with crafting gone?

    Originally posted by Cymdai

    Here's the problem with crafting: It's too easy. Between the incredible monotony AND simplicity of gathering : 1) All the nodes are within 50 meters of each other per 5 levels, 2) There's no challenge or shortage of materials, 3) It's incredibly boring, 4) There's no diminishing returns, 5) It's so cheap to buy ingredients from the AH that there's no purpose in gathering) I can't see there being a big profit in it. I'm sure HQ gear will always be a factor, but for like 500 gil, you can buy 250 ore. That's roughly 80 ingots, for 10ish levels worth of crating materials. Or, you could go mine for maybe 15 minutes and acquire about the same amount of ore. The point being, there's no reason not to just do everything yourself. And that's the problem.

    @OP

    I wouldn't worry too much about the AH being slow - this is beta after all and that's bound to happen; things will pick up after people get settled in to permanent characters, namely post-launch. There are other reasons not to be worried which I will get to. The AH *IS* implemented though - it's just called the market board now and in the game world looks like a big bulletin board with multi-colored paper notes tacked to it. It can usually be found by the NPC vendor markets in any major city - there may be more than one per city, not sure. Also, one of the easiest ways for people to use the market board is the NPC 'retainers' everyone can get that will sell things for you when you are offline and are accessible from your inn-room (you need to do a specific quest to unlock these though - I doubt many have bothered in the beta).

    As far as shards, the two most efficient ways to get them that I've found are gathering (mining/botany, etc.), from which they are plentiful, or questing (many quests will award, say, 20 of a type of shard in addition to other rewards (I'm talking about combat and story quests - I don't know if this holds for guildleves, which you can do as crafting or gather classes, if you meant to level solely via those). Gathering is your best bet - I'm sure they will be all over the AH too as more people get into the gathering professions.

    My personal experience crafting (having gathered my own shards) was an simple and somewhat repetitive but overall pleasant one; I appreciated the convenience of the guild having everything available, though I admit I was surprised that they would make it so easy. Still, the game encourages you to level multiple crafting classes to get the unique crafting abilities of each profession, so the gil might add up if you don't start turning a profit (hard to say with my limited experience).

    The rest of my response comes from what I've gathered from reading the beta forums:

    Firstly, the devs do intend for crafters to play a major role in the game; this game will indeed be gear-centric, and there will be craftable gear that is better than what can be found in dungeons or among quest rewards (those recipes are scheduled to be implemented in phase 4 according to a forum sticky).

    Secondly, there are systems in place that are designed to ensure a dynamic market: namely the materia melding system. In a nutshell, strong gear has slots for materia; stones that increase stats. The only way to make strong materia (with good stats), is to break down strong gear into it. Most, especially high level, gear in the game will be bound to the player; so say a  raider who already has strong gear finds an upgrade in their guild raid; they can bring the old piece of gear to you to break down into materia, which you (and a crafter must be the one to do this) can then socket into the new piece of gear to enhance it for them. Alternatively, you could craft your own gear and break it down into materia yourself to sell on the AH (or to socket into more of your own gear, selling that instead).

    Furthermore, if they are really hardcore min/maxing type raiders, you'll get even more work from them, because there is something else called 'forbidden (materia) melding'. Basically it's the same thing as normal melding, but you can attempt to socket more pieces of materia into a piece of gear than normally allowed (for example, say a chestpiece has 2 materia slots...after placing materia in the first 2 via normal melding, you can attempt to add up to, say, 2 more, via forbidden melding. The thing about this is that it can fail, destroying the materia being used and the reagents (but not the gear).

    Don't forget that there is always HQ gear on top of all this.

    Overall, it's looking like there will be a high demand for crafters' services, and even moreso for people who took the time to level multiple crafting professions so that they can get the most out of the crafting process.

    @Cymdai

    I agree that (from my very limited experience gathering) there didn't seem to be much point in it besides that I could gather my own shards for crafting. I'm thinking that this will change later on when rarer materials are demanded that the guild doesn't sell, especially those in dangerous areas that will require stealthing around mobs to reach, and perhaps use of one's special gathering active abilities. I saw something on the beta forums about how some items that would normally have been on the loot tables for nodes were withheld in phase 3 beta, slotted for phase 4 (especially anything beyond level 35), but I have no specifics on this. I'm hoping gathering ends up being more useful myself - I suppose we'll see...

    It's worth noting that I've played a lot of MMOs, and as simple as the crafting and gathering systems are in this game, I've seen very few games with more involved systems for either (though that may not be saying much). Overall they are satisfactory for me, so long as they are not somehow made obsolete by the devs (which I am not terribly worried about happening).

  • XatshXatsh Columbia, TNMember UncommonPosts: 233

    The economy is one thing I do worry about in this game after playing around with 50s for awhile.

     

    It mainly is coming down to 3 reason.

    1) Materia

    2) Rate of HQ gathering at 50

    3) Rate of HQ synthing at 50

     

    All gear has a cap per stat. And at least currently the cap is low. So you might only be able to put 1 materia of your primary stat on the gear. The 5 stack melds if you do the whole set are only very very marginally better then dungoen drops (The lowest tier of endgame). But to get a 5 stack you will have around a 7-8% chance of the meld succeeding. You no longer lose anything when you fail besides that 1 materia, but still you are looking at hundreds of materia per item. For almost no gain in the end. The work is not worth the rewards atm.

     

    As a level 50 minner as long as I have enough perception to get 1% hq I can use abiliites every 5 or so mins to get a 50% hq gathering rate per node (2-3 hq ores per node every 5mins). This means the supply will drastically exceed the demand when you think all other miners can do the same. This will cause the prices to plummet.

     

    If you take the time to level all the crafts, you can force hq nearly100% of the time with hq mats. Might change some with new synths at launch, but currently with about 5mins of work a decked out crafter can 100% hq while crafting if you use hq mats (which is you read above are a joke to get). If this is not modified it will drive the cost down drastically of everything in the wards.

  • BlazeyerBlazeyer Pittsburgh, PAMember UncommonPosts: 562
    Once you get higher level you start to run out of materials that are in the shops. You have to level or talk to other people with certain crafts leveled in order to get odd materials that aren't create-able by you. You have to start looking on the AH for mats and farming them yourself.
  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Ul''dah, CAMember RarePosts: 1,926

     

    While I have all my crafts at level 40+ from the original, it's still something I have to look into.  But I kind've suspected from one of Yoshi-P's hundreds of posts and letters that it wouldn't be as important as it was in 1.0.   The materia system might be the most important thing to it (though arguably it was also the most important in 1.0 for meta crafting).

     

    Since the story and side quests now award items, it just seems less necessary to have crafting if you do not intend on maxing it out.  Would be interested in hearing from anyone who leveled 1-35 in the beta or who has level 50s and tested it out.

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