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Originally posted by Gishgeron Originally posted by BearKnight Ever wonder why WoW hasn't gone free-to-play? Simple, games that have quality are worth a subscription. That being said, WoW isn't worth even "free" to me, but that's because I hate WoW for destroying the MMO genre. (plus it's just too easy for me, no fun there) That aside, this article just means that RIFT was hurting something fierce if their subscriber numbers were so low that "F2P" boosted them up a bit. Sad really, but not unexpected considering they tried to copy WoW with a little bit of unique "flare". I hope the developers laid off a bit ago from TRION are doing well .
Saying something like that tells us that you haven't really thought about the industry at all. Seriously. Quality isn't the most important factor when determining whether the market will respond well to a sub model. Market saturation is. The only time the sub model was incredibly successful was when the MMO market was just begging to emerge. Now that there are more MMO's than players (I kid, but its really not long before its true) they can't all support a sub model and remain profitable.
In fact, based on what I've seen...the market will only really support 3 sub games at a time. Western market, that is. Eastern markets won't support 1 half the time, they are VERY oriented around F2P systems. So it comes as nearly a guarantee that if you are making a new MMO its GOING to have to be made with F2P in mind at some point.
2 big factors, 1 is quality, the other big factor is whether or not the company can continuously provide value to their customers. In this day and age people aren't going to give you money every month if you aren't giving them value. If they don't feel you are giving them enough content to warrant the sub cost they will leave.
Frankly this is the reason why sub is the better model. The pressure is on the developers to provide quality and value. In F2P all they have to do is provide a bunch of crap in the item store and it doesn't matter if people stay or leave as long as they can get steady revenue from the same old item store crap. Not saying that is what they all do, but there isn't a lot of pressure to provide quality content at a good pace. It looks like Rift is staying on course and will continue to provide new content at a good pace, and I really hope they do because Rift is an awesome game and I would hate to see them stagnate in item store hell like so many F2P games do.
Rift by far has the best F2p hands down , i have yet to see any f2p that doesnt have a catch to make you pay, some would argue the selling on the AH block for froobs is a catch , well as a player who has played mmo's since 2000 most of those game did not have a AH i made my money in chat and its not a game stopper ,
but but what about if i want it unlocked i have to pay cash to do it right,
no not really the deeps boxes drop and sell any where from 30 plat to a couple hundred if you luck out you can easily make enough plat to buy rex from players and unlock it that way , mounts can be bought for plat same speed as the ones they offer in the store the fancy mounts ie tigers lizards and what not match your fastest mount
as for the 2 char limit and the 3 bag slot limit the way the soul trees are set you may never need more then the two and the 3 bag slots buy or get from a guild the 28 slot bags and now that you can sell your grey items at any time from anywhere in the game world in the rift store space is not a issue
the only thing i cant stand to hear about rift well any game for that matter if there is swords and shields its a wow clone if you ask me wow was a clone of asherons call or ultima online or dark age of camelot i could go on , every game will always have something that can be found in another game
I am back ... and I LOVE IT again! So much so that I got another year sub. Love the changes, and the new content. Only drawback might be the F2P chat Trolls.
So far anyway...
Rift is a great game, always has been. Even after the initial months it was great, even on dead servers it provided enough to do(I played at Argent, EU, which was RP-shard and one of the most dead ones at that. Still the Argent community at that time was small, but lively, helpfull, and just a great community to be part of).
Trion has shown the ONLY right way to convert to F2P in my opinion, and as long as they provide us with new content(and they will: 2.3 gave a new 10men raid, and tons of other stuff. 2.4 will give a new 20men raid, and again tons of other stuff(I am there for raiding, hence my focus on that :P) I will stay a subscriber. €9,- aint much and I happily support Trion with my money. At least till Wildstar and TESO release.... then it might be time to move on or indeed start playing Rift as a f2p player..
"There are at least two kinds of games.One could be called finite, the other infinite.A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Originally posted by strangiato2112 Originally posted by NobleNerd I agree that Trion has done a great job going f2p. It is not in your face all the time trying to get you to buy something. I love how you can open the shop and purchase with credit or ingame currency anywhere you are. The f2p is not what will stop me from continuing to play the game (at current I still sub.). What will hinder me from continuing to play Rift is the fact that the factions are still sharing everything, not only that but little is faction specific anymore. You can now purchase the other faction's mounts, etc and I still have to play "nice nice" with the other side!!!! I know for many they don't care about this nor do they even think about how the lore is all messed up now, but this matters to me. When I pvp I want to have an enemy, but half the time I am teamed up with my enemy. NOT only am I forced to be a mercenary with my enemy, but I share guilds, raids, IE, and dungeons AND now They can even defect and be a part of the opposite faction !?!?! In a time when more and more old school players (especially) are crying for 3 faction divided experience Trion is pretty much doing away with factions all together!
Yes, the f2p model is overall excellent. it is in your face though. I found the near full screen vendor screen annoying. there is far too much for sale too (world/seasonal event mounts for instance is ridiculous- make a different model to sell, there should be a divide between earned mounts and cash shop mounts)
The rest of your post is a large reason why Ive uninstalled Rift finally. not the faction merge, because as another poster said it wasnt that interesting to begin with. because Rift's world is crafted to look pretty but its one of the absolute worst MMORPG worlds I have ever seen. Its possibly the worst AAA world. the races are garbage, and the lore is nothing special. And they make changes with no regard to the world they have created: 3 faction PvP in a 2 faction world is a prime example. they remove falling damage completely instead of just toning it down.
Rift is just a soulless world and they arent going to fix that anytime soon.
Luckily for Trion, many people don't care about that sort of thing and really only care about their carrots and rift does carrot on a stick as well as anyone. But with themeparks like EQ2 and LOTRO and, yes, WoW providing more depth (in combat for all 3 and out of combat for the first 2) and a *much* better world I shouldn't have given rift as many chances as I did.
Suzie is right about the LOTRO f2p model: its garbage. the worst freemium model by far, because even subbers have to pay money (unlike EQ2) for basic features. Rift is easily the best AAA f2p model, so if you are looking for free gaming than Rift is where its at for you. but I would rather pay 15 a month for a game I enjoy than play a game that I feel lacking for free.
You do realise that PvP is still 2 factions, not 3... What you mean is Conquest.. which indeed is 3 facions PvP, but the main PvP is still 2 factions.
Conquest takes place in a different timeline, a timeline where Defiant/Guardians indeed resolved their issues(and defeated the dragons) but, as is human nature, there were still different beliefs on how to continue.. and that was the start of the 3 factions.
Now because you said you find the lore is nothing special, you probaply arent even aware of this but both the 10men raids and conquest takes place in different timelines(compared to the timeline you play in while questing and doing 20men raids)
Hell the WHOLE GAME is taking place in a different timeline then the initial startzone
So eventhough you can argue some things, and eventhough you can offcourse find the lore nothing special(as its an opinion) you cant really say Trion makes changes without regard to the world and lore. It was clear already in beta the Rift would have different timelines(if you paid attention that is)
Now to the "peace' between Guardians and Defiants: there is no peace, there is a truce..
There is a bigger danger to the world then the petty diferences between the 2 factions, hence the truce. They arent allies.. keep that in mind.
Now I dont think that there will ever be a Guardian vs Defiant war again, it could happen just lore-wise, but game-wise it wont(with most guilds having both faction now etc). But I dont understand why it bothers you: the game is still the same, it doesnt change anything. It only changes something when you are an RP-player, but then you can easily RP that you dont accept this truce.. it aint that hard
Originally posted by Arakazi I don't understand why so many people are gushing over this game, it has one of the most lackluster combat systems I have played in an MMO, made worse by the ease in which you can macro its was 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 2, and if things get really exciting you might have to move a bit to the left to avoid the red circle. There is very little strategy involved, or twitch... in fact it is one of the easiest MMO I have ever played. Almost as easy as lotro and thats for special people. The Graphics are ok overall, if a little dull, but the character animations are poor and lack of character creation options is a letdown. The music is good, but the voice acting is woeful, especially in the SL expansion. Crafting is dull as is the lore and housing. In fact the only thing that kept me playing was the raids. Personally, I think there are better f2p games.
Have u ever raided in Rift? I guess not, since you said it's easy game. I'd rather play game with challenged end-game with easy leveling, then game with challenged content (still looking for that one, didn't find) all the way leveling up with no end-game at all.
Quote from the article:
"While Rift proudly billed itself (and still does) as something of a World of Warcraft killer, the staying power and longevity that it manifest as a subscription revenue model title simply didn’t happen."
It is amazing that a game that was turned into a ghost town on every server (killing 99 servers in the process)... 6 months after launch is now considered "awesome" just by the fact it turnef F2P...
The same happened to Lotro, D&DO, Start TrekMMO, SWTOR...
Nope, these failed subscription based games are NOT better by turning F2P.
Sad to see this promotion on MMORPG of what is simply a shake out and sell off of the industry:
tldr: F2P is the last resort of an AAA developped MMORPG. Watch this industry die in very low cost productions and ditto development.
Originally posted by Scot Only one MMO this year has released as P2P (including B2P). Enjoy this while it lasts as without great new P2P MMO's being launched you are not going to see any great F2P hybrids coming out. We will be left with F2P at launch MMO's to set the quality standard...good luck with that.
So correct, in view what I wrote above: old failed AAA subscription based titles that turn f2p is NOT what will make this industry "alive and kicking".
People only view the short term profit, but they lack to see that these games were made to make a long term investement through subscriptions.
F2P in MMORPG land means garbage content and garbage long term support, because you can't replace a fixed subscription based revenue with some lacklustre and very doubtful long term income from a cash shop.
F2P works in iPad gamettes or Facebook games (even there Zynga lost 80% of its stock in 2 years time), not in highly developped and extreme costly MMORPG world designs.
Rift going free to play is not a better game then it was when having a subscription. And Rift F2P is pretty much RIP AAA Rift.
Originally posted by sportsfan So correct, in view what I wrote above: old failed AAA subscription based titles that turn f2p is NOT what will make this industry "alive and kicking".
And you mentioned above "The same happened to Lotro, D&DO, Start TrekMMO, SWTOR..."
DDO is f2p almost 3 years now, LotRO 2.5 years, STO 1.5 years and they're all pretty alive and kicking as I see with multiple updates, expansions, increased playerbase and stuff.
Oh, and there's SW:TOR as well. (sorry )
Originally posted by Arthasm Originally posted by Arakazi I don't understand why so many people are gushing over this game, it has one of the most lackluster combat systems I have played in an MMO, made worse by the ease in which you can macro its was 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 2, and if things get really exciting you might have to move a bit to the left to avoid the red circle. There is very little strategy involved, or twitch... in fact it is one of the easiest MMO I have ever played. Almost as easy as lotro and thats for special people. The Graphics are ok overall, if a little dull, but the character animations are poor and lack of character creation options is a letdown. The music is good, but the voice acting is woeful, especially in the SL expansion. Crafting is dull as is the lore and housing. In fact the only thing that kept me playing was the raids. Personally, I think there are better f2p games.
Of course I have. Like I said it was the only thing I enjoyed about the game, but everything else was a bit of a chore. Fishing for crafting tokens for example, was particularly dull.
I am one of the players that plowed through all the content with my guild and ended up with no more to do after 5 month playtime, I did linger in the game for another 2 months and then decided to move to another MMO.
Though I have returned a few times for free weekends and events like the Extra-Life 24 hour gaming donation marathon.
And I did return to rift one month before it did go back to the F2P, and I have to say that this is the best conversion to F2P that I have ever experienced.
This is by far the best F2P game I have experienced to date.
The number 1 reason is that the gameplay was not "gimped" to force you to ungimp it via the cash shop, the cash shop is filled with "luxuries" non-essential purchases that add variety or cosmetic appeal but do not curtail your enjoyment of the game only enhance the very solid basics.
I have already spent money on the game in buying it & I subbed previously for a monthbut was too deeply engrossed in other games when it released, now two years on those other titles aren't holding me so a return to RIFT has been refreshing.
RIFT has also the best gameplay features to capitalise on a F2P game early -on, namely the rifts themselves, these work so well with a crowd of people couple that with the ability to swap roles easily & if you see no tanks or no healers you can quickly become one & ensure the success of the group - if you wish.
I will say this though...
Theres a crap ton of server lag, and many of us are getting booted off and crashing to desk top.
Everything else is great, but TRION needs to fix this immediately. Its getting worse....
"It was there that we discovered Rift’s shortcoming: There wasn’t enough to do at the top end unless players were part of a very active raiding group."
I love how you include this line in the article and then proceed to show screenshots of you on a r1 toon in the starting room.