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Please, tell me why you hate PVP so much. I just don't understand.

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  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Originally posted by Ramonski7

    The freedom allotted in FFA PvP or Open-world PvP is too great of a responsibility for some players to bear. Abusers most often take it for granted in meaning they get to use it however they choose. And that's fine, but doing so negatively, does come with a heavy cost. And it's exactly this cost that they never think about. Especially when it comes to mindset of their more PvE oriented neighbors and their views of seeing FFA/open-world PvP as a overall positive feature. They simply chalk it up as carebear whining when they complain about ramped abuse and move on to their next target. But what happens when the targets start to avoid mmorpgs with this feature?

     

    Instead of that freedom being used as an outlet for negative reasons like frustrations, boredom and griefing. Why are less and less of the more positive ways rarely witnessed as much in open-world/FFA PvP mmorpgs like RPing, settling in-game player conflicts or territorial control anymore?. And no, you having a bad day and killing someone in-game does not count as settling in-game player conflicts.

     

    And it's unfortunately those negative reasons that most players who do not put as much stock into FFA/open-wprld PvP are exposed to. It's like the chat feature in mmorpgs. As it is now, chatting has little to no restrictions as to what you can type. Well almost no restrictions, but for the most part you can type whatever you like. Many do not because certain things could get you banned. A norm has been established within the bounds of the game that a majority of players adhere to and this norm is backed up by a system to keep the more colorful abusers out there in check. There is no norm or system in place to keep PvP in check and until that day this is one freedom that needs to be limited.

    Nice post man.

    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • fyerwallfyerwall Member UncommonPosts: 3,240

    PvP isn't the issue really - it's the people who PvP.

    I loved PvPing in AO - Omni and Clan constantly going at it, constantly throwing insults around the field and doing our damnedest to out wit each other. And the best part was, after all was said and done, we would go back to our normal everyday business and then whispers would come in with "Good game! You got me good!' from an enemy. It was fun.

    Then the twits started showing up. Same as in UO, the new generation came in and it all went to shit. Exploits being used for the win, the crys of "Hacker!" being thrown around because you managed to best someone even though they spent days building the best implant/gear/skill setup. Next thing you know its ePeen fest. And the fun suddenly dies. In AO you could avoid PvP when it became over run with tools and go about your day doing other things. In a game like UO pre Trammel, you couldn't. Over time I realized no matter what system was put in place, what ever rules they design, you can't stop people from being people. And PvP, no matter how well it starts out, becomes a cesspool.

    So yeah, I don't hate PvP. I just hate the people that eventually ruin it and bring the rest of the game down in the process.

    There are 3 types of people in the world.
    1.) Those who make things happen
    2.) Those who watch things happen
    3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Originally posted by fyerwall

    PvP isn't the issue really - it's the people who PvP.

    I loved PvPing in AO - Omni and Clan constantly going at it, constantly throwing insults around the field and doing our damnedest to out wit each other. And the best part was, after all was said and done, we would go back to our normal everyday business and then whispers would come in with "Good game! You got me good!' from an enemy. It was fun.

    Then the twits started showing up. Same as in UO, the new generation came in and it all went to shit. Exploits being used for the win, the crys of "Hacker!" being thrown around because you managed to best someone even though they spent days building the best implant/gear/skill setup. Next thing you know its ePeen fest. And the fun suddenly dies. In AO you could avoid PvP when it became over run with tools and go about your day doing other things. In a game like UO pre Trammel, you couldn't. Over time I realized no matter what system was put in place, what ever rules they design, you can't stop people from being people. And PvP, no matter how well it starts out, becomes a cesspool.

    So yeah, I don't hate PvP. I just hate the people that eventually ruin it and bring the rest of the game down in the process.

    Yeah, but I'm not completely sold on this one. In fact, I'm starting to take issue with this line of reasoning. 

     

    The exact same thing can be said about pve players. As I stated earlier in this thread, the worst thing you can do in a pve centric game is wipe the dungeon party. Even worse, being new to the content.

     

    Hell hath no fury like four l33t members of a 5 man dungeon party/ The name calling and shaming can be off the charts. The killer part is they can and will deny you the chance to do content based off a glance of your gear. 

     

    Both sides of the discussion have their rotten apples.

    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • SwiftrevoirSwiftrevoir Member UncommonPosts: 158
    I don't hate pvp but it will always play second fiddle to pve during my time in game.  For me it's more of a mini-game, something I do as a distraction from progression and leveling.  This however doesn't mean that it should lack depth or replayability. 
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432


    Originally posted by bcbully
    Both sides of the discussion have their rotten apples.
    Of course they do.

    What can a player vs a dick PvP player? Log off? Not play?

    What can a player do vs a (or many) dick PvE players? Leave group? Find another node to farm?

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • evilastroevilastro Member Posts: 4,270
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by evilastro

    To put it into context, BCBully plays and advocates for Age of Wushu. AoW actually has a fantastic risk / reward / punishment system for open world PvP. What he doesnt realise is that most of the people against it are talking about grief prone systems more akin to Darkfall or Mortal Online.

    AoW is a good step forward in terms of open world PvP, but I think punishments for criminals could stand to be a bit harsher and better fleshed out (forcing them into outlaw camps and being unable to affiliate themselves with anyone from a lawful faction etc).    

     

    As someone who loathes FFA or non-consensual PvP I would be tempted to play a game such as AoW, if it truly does what Bc says it does.  The issue then becomes the community because until a paradigm shift happens in the MMO genre where the average mentality of the PvP'er goes from Douchey to pleasant it will still be a hard sale for me.

     

    Its worth a try, the only reason I dont play AoW is because I dont like how character progression is handled. The systems behind the game were very well thought out.

  • PurutzilPurutzil Member UncommonPosts: 3,048

    Why people hate PvP. Top 3 reasons I feel in order

    1.) Griefing

    2.) Ganking > Fair Fights

    3.) Imbalance

     

    Griefing I'd say hands down sticks up the highest issue people have with PvP. Ignoring the other issues, griefing is meaning just the aspect of killing for the sake of ruining the time of others, often repeatedly doing so. Its by far one of the biggest factors in dragging down games, particularly with FFA PvP in place as your essencially screwed if some lifeless dude decides to do this to you and you don't stand a chance.

     

    Ganking is by far the biggest part of PvP and elts be honest, it really isn't very skill based. A person will play a class/use a skill set that promotes ganking and killing a player, using a heavy advantage to kill them. This often times leads the one party with a huge advantage over the other then skill rarely can account for. This only is strengthened as a lot of times this is done by HIGHER LEVEL players against LOWER LEVELS (aka griefing). To me its quite pathetic. As fun as it is  to kill those players (seriously, its fun, I can just imagine how shitty they feel losing to something they have no excuse for failing on) its something I personally find quite pathetic, particularly if it is done in a griefing ' I'm a skill-less noob let my levels/money carry me and pretend I'm good' deal a lot seem to go for.

     

    Imbalance would probably be the weakest of the two though bigger for more 'pvp' focused players. PvP is NEVER balanced. A game that is pure PvP (aka League of Legends) can't maintain balance, and MMos are only going to have that much more trouble itself. The aspect of balanced 1v1 is a near impossible dream without making everything the same, and in many cases certain classes will have perks that just make them stand out more then another. I loved my Chanter in Aion, but it was painful having to deal with PvP when my class was just so god aweful weak, particularly early on, only gaining some steam further down the road.

     

     

    Try and pin it on them 'not being good' or any other silly thing, but in the end most things that players dislike about PvP isn't based on skill, its the more 'scum baggy' things like griefing or ganking which skill can't do much for. Sure, I can stand it (at least the random ganking and I am accepting to an extent class imbalance will exist) and I do play on a PvP server in most games (Rift I stuck with the PvP server despite everyone trying to push for PvE) but its behavior that just isn't really 'skill' based yet those "Hardcore Pvpers"  seem to want to push it out as doing so. If you are so hardcore on it, you should be content to go at it in a fair fight, you can't go about demeaning those who don't like it cause they aren't 'good enough' when what you are doing is far from showing being remotely talented at anything.

  • GravargGravarg Member UncommonPosts: 3,424
    If I wanted to watch people run around willy nilly killing each other, I'd watch the news.  I play games to relax and have a good time with friends, not kill them.
  • centkincentkin Member RarePosts: 1,527

    I do not hate PVP. I hate non-consentual PVP.  This was hammered into me from playing Aion and seeing what it does to people etc.  I get no jollies from griefing other people.  I am not a predator who stalks the easy prey in games.  When I pvp, I want to do it against the prepared in a fair battle.  When I pve, I do not want to be interrupted by someone trying to gank me.  I prefer to keep my worlds separate.

     

     

  • pfcgriffpfcgriff Member Posts: 26

    My problem with PVP in MMORPG's is the general asshattery of the PVP types. Gankers and Griefers that meet a mildly challenging force and bail. No tactics other than superior numbers. Its why I left the PVP servers of EQ2.Go out with a group and spend the night zoning chasing a group that would have better numbers but admittedly wanted to grief. 

     

    The ones who do fight when they inevitably lose, wail and cry on the forums until the offending class in nerfed that cycle continues to infinity. 

     

    MMORPG PVP players should blame themselves and the griefer in their group that no-one wants to play with them.Its like going to the park and there are a group playing basketball that only want to play 5 on one and when they lose they they stab the basketball, then demand the park make everyone else play with no shoes. 

     

    I get my PVP fix in Planetside 2 its brutal does quite well in the nerf cycle BS. 

    image
  • TalinTalin Member UncommonPosts: 918

    DAOC RVR PVP system (the default, not the mordred rules) = Good.

     

    Most other PVP systems = Bad.

     

    Any questions?

  • BrialynBrialyn Member Posts: 184

    As a player I loathe PvP but I've never said I don't want it in mmo's.  I won't buy an mmo built solely around pvp or one that forces pvp.  This is my opinion.  Do I die a lot in pvp? Yes. I like to play healer.  I tend to run around battlegrounds healing which is all fine and dandy until the other side figures out you're healing. Then they descend on you like lions on an injured gazelle.  Do I understand this makes tactical sense? Yes.  However, the behavior of some people in pvp when their ego is all inflated can kill any fun you may have been having.  My team will begin to get sarcastic when I cannot get three feet out of a graveyard without being slaughtered by 3 or more other players because now they know I'm the healer.  They make stupid comments like: where are the heals? can't you do your job? hurry up and heal!  Then if my team aren't being jerks the other side are busy doing their smack talk.  Why do I want to do this again? Oh yeah to have fun.  That, what I just described is not fun.  

    Now PvP with a group of friends is more palatable, however the behavior of some on the opposing team still cause the fun factor to dip a little.  

    I play games to have fun and escape my reality, which just happens to be a bunch of adults going at each other and being immature.  The LAST thing I want is to come home to a video game and deal with the same thing.  I'll stick with co-op and PvE. It's just more fun to me.  I'm okay with some people enjoying PvP and others who don't.  If a company thinks that there are enough gamers out there that want a pure pvp game they'll make it and PvP fans can have all the fun they want.  It is not a product I would consider for myself.  If developers want to put some pvp in a game and not FORCE it on me, I'll consider their product. I don't believe that every game should be made for me.  

     


    image
    Currently Playing: FFXIV:ARR
    Looking Forward to: Wildstar
  • RazeeksterRazeekster Member UncommonPosts: 2,591
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by fyerwall

    PvP isn't the issue really - it's the people who PvP.

    I loved PvPing in AO - Omni and Clan constantly going at it, constantly throwing insults around the field and doing our damnedest to out wit each other. And the best part was, after all was said and done, we would go back to our normal everyday business and then whispers would come in with "Good game! You got me good!' from an enemy. It was fun.

    Then the twits started showing up. Same as in UO, the new generation came in and it all went to shit. Exploits being used for the win, the crys of "Hacker!" being thrown around because you managed to best someone even though they spent days building the best implant/gear/skill setup. Next thing you know its ePeen fest. And the fun suddenly dies. In AO you could avoid PvP when it became over run with tools and go about your day doing other things. In a game like UO pre Trammel, you couldn't. Over time I realized no matter what system was put in place, what ever rules they design, you can't stop people from being people. And PvP, no matter how well it starts out, becomes a cesspool.

    So yeah, I don't hate PvP. I just hate the people that eventually ruin it and bring the rest of the game down in the process.

    Yeah, but I'm not completely sold on this one. In fact, I'm starting to take issue with this line of reasoning. 

     

    The exact same thing can be said about pve players. As I stated earlier in this thread, the worst thing you can do in a pve centric game is wipe the dungeon party. Even worse, being new to the content.

     

    Hell hath no fury like four l33t members of a 5 man dungeon party/ The name calling and shaming can be off the charts. The killer part is they can and will deny you the chance to do content based off a glance of your gear. 

     

    Both sides of the discussion have their rotten apples.

    What? Usually dungeons and raids are done with guilds so that really isn't that huge of a problem. Also what you're describing is much rarer than the rudeness and utter disregard for other people that comes from the PvP community. And even if your logic was in any way correct- that PvE players are just as bad as PvP players (which I scoff at)- your logic is: It's equal so it's okay! Or so it sounds like (correct me if I'm wrong).

     

    The other thing is that what you're describing is mostly found in the horrendous F2P games that lock progression behind cash shops such as Vindictus (hence people giving one look at a player with enchantments on his/her gear that are below 10 and kicking people because otherwise it's impossible to do the newer content). I've never had the PvE problems you mentioned in games that allow you to obtain gear by just playing the game instead of paying for some kind of enchantment in a cash shop to enhance gear.

     

    It seems to me like you're just pointing fingers at the PvE community because everyone is basically saying the same thing: the PvP community is a nightmare to deal with. You may not like it, but that's pretty much the truth when it comes to dealing with PvP players nowadays.

    Smile

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by fyerwall

    PvP isn't the issue really - it's the people who PvP.

    I loved PvPing in AO - Omni and Clan constantly going at it, constantly throwing insults around the field and doing our damnedest to out wit each other. And the best part was, after all was said and done, we would go back to our normal everyday business and then whispers would come in with "Good game! You got me good!' from an enemy. It was fun.

    Then the twits started showing up. Same as in UO, the new generation came in and it all went to shit. Exploits being used for the win, the crys of "Hacker!" being thrown around because you managed to best someone even though they spent days building the best implant/gear/skill setup. Next thing you know its ePeen fest. And the fun suddenly dies. In AO you could avoid PvP when it became over run with tools and go about your day doing other things. In a game like UO pre Trammel, you couldn't. Over time I realized no matter what system was put in place, what ever rules they design, you can't stop people from being people. And PvP, no matter how well it starts out, becomes a cesspool.

    So yeah, I don't hate PvP. I just hate the people that eventually ruin it and bring the rest of the game down in the process.

    Yeah, but I'm not completely sold on this one. In fact, I'm starting to take issue with this line of reasoning. 

     

    The exact same thing can be said about pve players. As I stated earlier in this thread, the worst thing you can do in a pve centric game is wipe the dungeon party. Even worse, being new to the content.

     

    Hell hath no fury like four l33t members of a 5 man dungeon party/ The name calling and shaming can be off the charts. The killer part is they can and will deny you the chance to do content based off a glance of your gear. 

     

    Both sides of the discussion have their rotten apples.

    What? Usually dungeons and raids are done with guilds so that really isn't that huge of a problem. Also what you're describing is much rarer than the rudeness and utter disregard for other people that comes from the PvP community. And even if your logic was in any way correct- that PvE players are just as bad as PvP players (which I scoff at)- your logic is: It's equal so it's okay! Or so it sounds like (correct me if I'm wrong).

     

    The other thing is that what you're describing is mostly found in the horrendous F2P games that lock progression behind cash shops such as Vindictus (hence people giving one look at a player with enchantments on his/her gear that are below 10 and kicking people because otherwise it's impossible to do the newer content). I've never had the PvE problems you mentioned in games that allow you to obtain gear by just playing the game instead of paying for some kind of enchantment in a cash shop to enhance gear.

     

    It seems to me like you're just pointing fingers at the PvE community because everyone is basically saying the same thing: the PvP community is a nightmare to deal with. You may not like it, but that's pretty much the truth when it comes to dealing with PvP players nowadays.

    No that's not my logic. I'm pointing out that "bad people" exist on both sides of this fence, so it's getting hard for me to accept that the main reason some pve'rs don't pvp is because of mean nasty people.

     

    What I'm describing is found in mmorpgs from WoW to Gw2. 

     

    I'm not sure how me saying,  both sides have bad apples is "figure pointing." Bad apples are bad, and are bad for the genre. 

     

     

    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • WolfenprideWolfenpride Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 3,988

    I don't hate it, honestly I use to love in DAoC, PS, CoH, Aion, and a few other niche games, but the average pvp community today I find just aren't a fun bunch to play with.

    I've managed to enjoy PS2 and AoW to some extent recently, but for the most part i'm not to fond of recent development trends and general player mentality.

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Member UncommonPosts: 2,591
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by fyerwall

    PvP isn't the issue really - it's the people who PvP.

    I loved PvPing in AO - Omni and Clan constantly going at it, constantly throwing insults around the field and doing our damnedest to out wit each other. And the best part was, after all was said and done, we would go back to our normal everyday business and then whispers would come in with "Good game! You got me good!' from an enemy. It was fun.

    Then the twits started showing up. Same as in UO, the new generation came in and it all went to shit. Exploits being used for the win, the crys of "Hacker!" being thrown around because you managed to best someone even though they spent days building the best implant/gear/skill setup. Next thing you know its ePeen fest. And the fun suddenly dies. In AO you could avoid PvP when it became over run with tools and go about your day doing other things. In a game like UO pre Trammel, you couldn't. Over time I realized no matter what system was put in place, what ever rules they design, you can't stop people from being people. And PvP, no matter how well it starts out, becomes a cesspool.

    So yeah, I don't hate PvP. I just hate the people that eventually ruin it and bring the rest of the game down in the process.

    Yeah, but I'm not completely sold on this one. In fact, I'm starting to take issue with this line of reasoning. 

     

    The exact same thing can be said about pve players. As I stated earlier in this thread, the worst thing you can do in a pve centric game is wipe the dungeon party. Even worse, being new to the content.

     

    Hell hath no fury like four l33t members of a 5 man dungeon party/ The name calling and shaming can be off the charts. The killer part is they can and will deny you the chance to do content based off a glance of your gear. 

     

    Both sides of the discussion have their rotten apples.

    What? Usually dungeons and raids are done with guilds so that really isn't that huge of a problem. Also what you're describing is much rarer than the rudeness and utter disregard for other people that comes from the PvP community. And even if your logic was in any way correct- that PvE players are just as bad as PvP players (which I scoff at)- your logic is: It's equal so it's okay! Or so it sounds like (correct me if I'm wrong).

     

    The other thing is that what you're describing is mostly found in the horrendous F2P games that lock progression behind cash shops such as Vindictus (hence people giving one look at a player with enchantments on his/her gear that are below 10 and kicking people because otherwise it's impossible to do the newer content). I've never had the PvE problems you mentioned in games that allow you to obtain gear by just playing the game instead of paying for some kind of enchantment in a cash shop to enhance gear.

     

    It seems to me like you're just pointing fingers at the PvE community because everyone is basically saying the same thing: the PvP community is a nightmare to deal with. You may not like it, but that's pretty much the truth when it comes to dealing with PvP players nowadays.

    No that's not my logic. I'm pointing out that "bad people" exist on both sides of this fence, so it's getting hard for me to accept that the main reason some pve'rs don't pvp is because of mean nasty people.

     

    What I'm describing is found in mmorpgs from WoW to Gw2. 

     

    I'm not sure how me saying,  both sides have bad apples is "figure pointing." Bad apples are bad, and are bad for the genre. 

     

     

    Because PvE players are usually a friendly flock of people. There are rare cases which this is untrue, but in PvP it's not rare at all and the bad apples are quite rampant. So using PvE players to justify the behavior of PvP players really makes no sense.

     

    Also if you found that in GW2 that is extremely rare as GW2's PvE and even PvP community are some of the most friendly group of players I've encountered.

    Smile

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Member CommonPosts: 3,675
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Actually some people do hate PvP. The way you phrased the question isn't going to get you an answer why though. At least not one you can understand.

    How should it be phrased? I'll change the title.

    It's not the title it's the post. You're implying either they suck at it, they can't handle it, or that simply not liking it isn't a valid reason. You've set up an adversarial conditions and dismissed any reason that you're unwilling to accept as invalid.

    The way I read it, there was an assumption that anyone who doesn't like PvP has something wrong with them or they're a lesser gamer.  It comes across as fundamentally accusatory.  "You don't like PvP?  What's wrong with you?"

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • BeilisBeilis Member UncommonPosts: 5
    I like forced pvp.First game that had that was in RF online wich i enjoyed alot and had to make friends to help me raid them out so i can farm in peace or pay for some time to just guard portals etc.Its good to have it and not just plain pve field with bots.
  • Cephus404Cephus404 Member CommonPosts: 3,675

    I probably ought to answer.  I hate PvP.  I am not competitive, I have no interest in the kind of childish dick-waving nonsense I see in a lot of PvP.  I'm playing a game to have fun.  I don't want a bunch of immature little ganking twits running around attacking people at random, following you around and laughing if they win, seeking revenge with friends if they lose.  It's just not a community I want anything whatsoever to do with.

    If you want to play PvP, knock yourself out.  Just leave me completely out of it.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • plaxidiaplaxidia Member UncommonPosts: 171


    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by bcbully   Why, please tell me. Maybe developers have done studies and stuff, but I haven't, I really don't get it.        
    Well I personally like pvp but I can EASILY (didn't you just make a post on critical thinking and that a good amount of people can't do it?) see why people don't like some pvp'ers.
    I'm not talking about "some pvp'ers" I'm talking about in general. I wondered for years. The reasons I gave are the ones I've come up with. Please tell me if there are more lol. I swear I'm trying. 

     

    A previous poster said something about time. I thought to myself, "Ok." Then I thought back on my 8 years of mmorpg'n and couldn't think of a time where I lost more than a few minutes, and even then, did I really lose them?



    So what you want is a generalized reason why a group of individuals dont like pvp in MMORPGs? You wont get one. You will get 1000 different reasons from 1000 different people and some of them may be similar ie, griefers or lost game time dealing with it or not being good at it. Your not going to get one definitive answer to a question which can have a very large group of reasons.

    I think the real question is, why can't you understand that people are different and have different taste? I wouldn't force you to eat sushi if you told me it was gross and didn't like it. Why force someone to pvp if they don't like it and think its pointless, hard or people involved are mean.

    Personally I dont have a problem with pvp if its done well. I played Shadowbane for 2 years and had a great time. However I have noticed over the years that many (not all) people who are proponents of pvp are glory hounds who want to run around saying "I am the best! I owned you! or I beat so in so with a group of 3 and I was alone!" Good for them. I have no problem if that is why they play games. BUT don't knock or be discriminatory to people who prefer to not partake in that type of mentality or game play.

    Everyone plays games to have fun and the definition of fun is different for every person. If everyone liked the same things the world would be an awfully boring place. ImO

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Member UncommonPosts: 2,591
    Originally posted by plaxidia

     


    Originally posted by bcbully

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by bcbully   Why, please tell me. Maybe developers have done studies and stuff, but I haven't, I really don't get it.        
    Well I personally like pvp but I can EASILY (didn't you just make a post on critical thinking and that a good amount of people can't do it?) see why people don't like some pvp'ers.
    I'm not talking about "some pvp'ers" I'm talking about in general. I wondered for years. The reasons I gave are the ones I've come up with. Please tell me if there are more lol. I swear I'm trying. 

     

     

    A previous poster said something about time. I thought to myself, "Ok." Then I thought back on my 8 years of mmorpg'n and couldn't think of a time where I lost more than a few minutes, and even then, did I really lose them?


     


    So what you want is a generalized reason why a group of individuals dont like pvp in MMORPGs? You wont get one. You will get 1000 different reasons from 1000 different people and some of them may be similar ie, griefers or lost game time dealing with it or not being good at it. Your not going to get one definitive answer to a question which can have a very large group of reasons.

    I think the real question is, why can't you understand that people are different and have different taste? I wouldn't force you to eat sushi if you told me it was gross and didn't like it. Why force someone to pvp if they don't like it and think its pointless, hard or people involved are mean.

    Personally I dont have a problem with pvp if its done well. I played Shadowbane for 2 years and had a great time. However I have noticed over the years that many (not all) people who are proponents of pvp are glory hounds who want to run around saying "I am the best! I owned you! or I beat so in so with a group of 3 and I was alone!" Good for them. I have no problem if that is why they play games. BUT don't knock or be discriminatory to people who prefer to not partake in that type of mentality or game play.

    Everyone plays games to have fun and the definition of fun is different for every person. If everyone liked the same things the world would be an awfully boring place. ImO

    Seeing as how the OP already edited his beginning message to include, "OBSERVATION - Every scenario given by those against PvP involves being the person that gets killed. Check it out for yourself." I'm pretty sure he's already decided that that's the reason even though from what I saw in this thread that seemed to be the rare case.

     

    I guess he's just ignoring the many other reasons people had.

    Smile

  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Member UncommonPosts: 1,983

    I started PvP again since I play Neverwinter.  I still find it boring and cannot understand people who do this non stop all day with no other reason or drive.  Btw, I'm damn good at it.  But that doesn't make me like it any more.  I don't really care about the PvP crowd so long as they don't cry on the forums to nerf my rogue / archer / wizard.  Just because you die in battles repeatedly does not mean I'm overpowered.  It means you can't think up dynamics such as hiding behind walls and shiz.  I'm talking about Arena PvP.

     

    World PvP is a completely different topic.

     

    I have this to say about World PvP that I have never said before.  For those who are forced to it in games like Aion if you want to run away you should be able to.  I had a potion or cupcake or something in that game that turned me into a mountain lion.  What pissed me off is when I didn't want to pvp and was just running around the country side exploring in lion form I couldn't get away from those who did want to pick a fight.  My transformation could not untransform fast enough to allow me to ready spells for battle.  So if they got me in my kitty form they really had me.  I just had to sit and wait to die.  I think in World PvP peeps should have a chance to get away.  A real chance to run for it.  Instead I see World PvP set up to please the gank fest minded.  Fight or die, no chance to run.



  • PNM_JenningsPNM_Jennings Member UncommonPosts: 1,093
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by fyerwall

    What? Usually dungeons and raids are done with guilds so that really isn't that huge of a problem. Also what you're describing is much rarer than the rudeness and utter disregard for other people that comes from the PvP community. And even if your logic was in any way correct- that PvE players are just as bad as PvP players (which I scoff at)- your logic is: It's equal so it's okay! Or so it sounds like (correct me if I'm wrong).

     

    The other thing is that what you're describing is mostly found in the horrendous F2P games that lock progression behind cash shops such as Vindictus (hence people giving one look at a player with enchantments on his/her gear that are below 10 and kicking people because otherwise it's impossible to do the newer content). I've never had the PvE problems you mentioned in games that allow you to obtain gear by just playing the game instead of paying for some kind of enchantment in a cash shop to enhance gear.

     

    It seems to me like you're just pointing fingers at the PvE community because everyone is basically saying the same thing: the PvP community is a nightmare to deal with. You may not like it, but that's pretty much the truth when it comes to dealing with PvP players nowadays.

    No that's not my logic. I'm pointing out that "bad people" exist on both sides of this fence, so it's getting hard for me to accept that the main reason some pve'rs don't pvp is because of mean nasty people.

     

    What I'm describing is found in mmorpgs from WoW to Gw2. 

     

    I'm not sure how me saying,  both sides have bad apples is "figure pointing." Bad apples are bad, and are bad for the genre. 

     

     

    both sides have bad apples true. the difference is the pvpers troll you, insult you, kill, you and tea bag you. the pve'ers just take that ore node and kill steal.

  • craftseekercraftseeker Member RarePosts: 1,740
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by fyerwall

    PvP isn't the issue really - it's the people who PvP.

    Both sides of the discussion have their rotten apples.

    It seems to me like you're just pointing fingers at the PvE community because everyone is basically saying the same thing: the PvP community is a nightmare to deal with. You may not like it, but that's pretty much the truth when it comes to dealing with PvP players nowadays.

    I'm not sure how me saying,  both sides have bad apples is "figure pointing." Bad apples are bad, and are bad for the genre. 

    I may be the only one but I find the idea of someone calling themselves bcBULLY defending PvP play on the basis they are not all griefing bullies more than a little ironic.

  • plaxidiaplaxidia Member UncommonPosts: 171


    Originally posted by Razeekster Originally posted by plaxidia   Originally posted by bcbully Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by bcbully   Why, please tell me. Maybe developers have done studies and stuff, but I haven't, I really don't get it.        
    Well I personally like pvp but I can EASILY (didn't you just make a post on critical thinking and that a good amount of people can't do it?) see why people don't like some pvp'ers.
    I'm not talking about "some pvp'ers" I'm talking about in general. I wondered for years. The reasons I gave are the ones I've come up with. Please tell me if there are more lol. I swear I'm trying.      A previous poster said something about time. I thought to myself, "Ok." Then I thought back on my 8 years of mmorpg'n and couldn't think of a time where I lost more than a few minutes, and even then, did I really lose them?
      So what you want is a generalized reason why a group of individuals dont like pvp in MMORPGs? You wont get one. You will get 1000 different reasons from 1000 different people and some of them may be similar ie, griefers or lost game time dealing with it or not being good at it. Your not going to get one definitive answer to a question which can have a very large group of reasons. I think the real question is, why can't you understand that people are different and have different taste? I wouldn't force you to eat sushi if you told me it was gross and didn't like it. Why force someone to pvp if they don't like it and think its pointless, hard or people involved are mean. Personally I dont have a problem with pvp if its done well. I played Shadowbane for 2 years and had a great time. However I have noticed over the years that many (not all) people who are proponents of pvp are glory hounds who want to run around saying "I am the best! I owned you! or I beat so in so with a group of 3 and I was alone!" Good for them. I have no problem if that is why they play games. BUT don't knock or be discriminatory to people who prefer to not partake in that type of mentality or game play. Everyone plays games to have fun and the definition of fun is different for every person. If everyone liked the same things the world would be an awfully boring place. ImO
    Seeing as how the OP already edited his beginning message to include, "OBSERVATION - Every scenario given by those against PvP involves being the person that gets killed. Check it out for yourself." I'm pretty sure he's already decided that that's the reason even though from what I saw in this thread that seemed to be the rare case.   I guess he's just ignoring the many other reasons people had.

    OBSERVATION - Every scenario given by those against PvP involves being the person that gets killed. Check it out for yourself. 

     

    Oh I noticed. I just prefer to go against the grain :)  And in all reality my post points out the flaw in his statement. ;) Can't say I have never been killed in PvP mind you, I have been on both sides of the fence to be honest. But it has nothing to do with my post or opinion at all :) 

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