Could be. Seeing as how that is still in beta though, we will have to see how well received it is by the players. Once again not saying it can't be done, I'm saying it is hard, and if the people doing it first screw it up it will likely leave a bad taste in people's mouths and could affect how many more MMORPGs come to consoles. On the flip side if some devs initially do a great UI you may see that become a new goto UI model for MMORPGs on the console.
Also like I said the UI for the division looks to be outstanding and that is bound for consoles with the ability to control drones via mobile.
Still there are are a lot of other factors to consider outside of the UI, that will affect how popular MMORPGs are on the consoles.
Well if you been seeing all the posts from all the players in the beta on this site (my self included) many have been very well received. I havent seen one poster complain about the UI and controls for either gamepad or keyboard and mouse. I myself have been playing the beta with the gamepad on my PC and have grouped up with players using keyboard in dungeon runs. I only use the keyboard for only when I chat. How difficult it is designing the games control and UI is really dependent on the developer and for SE it prolly wasnt difficult since they have been making many games for gamepad. Most other mmorpgs developer arent used to making games with the gamepad so a lot of times they end up with bad designs like trion with defiance.
When I play virtua fighter, my characters have 40-60+ moves that I can trigger from a controller in a split second. It becomes second nature after a while. Its more than enough to accommodate all the needs of an mmo.
Could be. Seeing as how that is still in beta though, we will have to see how well received it is by the players. Once again not saying it can't be done, I'm saying it is hard, and if the people doing it first screw it up it will likely leave a bad taste in people's mouths and could affect how many more MMORPGs come to consoles. On the flip side if some devs initially do a great UI you may see that become a new goto UI model for MMORPGs on the console.
Also like I said the UI for the division looks to be outstanding and that is bound for consoles with the ability to control drones via mobile.
Still there are are a lot of other factors to consider outside of the UI, that will affect how popular MMORPGs are on the consoles.
Well if you been seeing all the posts from all the players in the beta on this site (my self included) many have been very well received. I havent seen one poster complain about the UI and controls for either gamepad or keyboard and mouse. I myself have been playing the beta with the gamepad on my PC and have grouped up with players using keyboard in dungeon runs. I only use the keyboard for only when I chat. How difficult it is designing the games control and UI is really dependent on the developer and for SE it prolly wasnt difficult since they have been making many games for gamepad. Most other mmorpgs developer arent used to making games with the gamepad so a lot of times they end up with bad designs like trion with defiance.
Well it is clear you are a fan of the game. But I rarely trust beta impressions. Also this site hasn't been great at picking winners in the past, but they do have some good articles. Once again though it isn't 100% about the UI, a UI can ruin a game but the UI can't make a bad game great. I'm not talking specifically about FFXIV but games in general, and how well the first few console MMORPGs are received by the players and how well they sell will have a big effect on the future of MMORPG console gaming.
What mmorpg was designed for high end PCs? they are all mostly designed for PCs with low and mid specs thats one of the biggest reasons why WoW has become so successful and same for GW2 (which you can play with a gamepad). The PS4 has higher specs than PCs of what most people have. Its got 8 gigs of GDDR5 ram, a amd card equivalent to a 560 GTX, and 8 core cpu. SOE even said that Planetside 2 will have its max graphics and 2000 player limit on map for PS4. And down the line as programmers and graphics designers are more practiced in using its hardware they can optimize the games even better. Games that come out at near the end of a consoles generation look way better graphically than the games that came out at the consoles release. For instance in terms of PS3 look at Last of Us or Beyond Two Souls compared to games that came at PS3s release. PCs can keep coming out new hardware every few months but it doesnt mean programmers can fully optimize it since its new to them and some of the reason why new games especially mmos have so many bugs and graphical glitches and performance issues at their release because they had to design the game for so many different combinations of hardware.
And when it comes to controls it depends on how well the developer design the game. Because you can have a traditional mmo gameplay tab target auto attack gameplay with gamepad too. FFXIV ARR proves that, because in it you can slot up to 32 skills on its cross-hotbar system, 16 on one hotbar set and another 16 on the second hotbar. While the keyboard/mouse controls and UI is the same as any other traditional mmo. The gamepad UI is very similar to the k/m UI which is why the game allows PC and PS3/PS4 players to play on same servers.
How consoles can just improve MMO's (x sarcasm) By the way, that PC max settings isnt with any of the high-resolution texture packs that can be downloaded added to it. That is vanilla vs vanilla.
If you start compairing some the the hi-rez texture mod add ons the PC is capable of, it just starts looking stupid and faked, simply because an 8 year old console is that bad.
But Im sure people are going to argue "Wait thats from an Xbox 360 that was released in Nov of 2005". And that is one of my major points.
You think Microsoft and Sony are going to release a new console every 2-3 years to take advantage of the improvements in CPU's and GPU's? F' no they arent. Expect them to be around for eight or so years. And they arent even at the cutting edge of graphic and CPUs even now....
So yeah expect a shared console/PC MMO just to be the best thats ever happened to our genre. Cause it can only be an improvement, right?
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
When I play virtua fighter, my characters have 40-60+ moves that I can trigger from a controller in a split second. It becomes second nature after a while. Its more than enough to accommodate all the needs of an mmo.
Combinations are definitely one way they can handle larger ability sets. However I am not sure how comfortable traditional MMO players would be with a fighting game controller layout.
Originally posted by jbombard Originally posted by FoomerangWhen I play virtua fighter, my characters have 40-60+ moves that I can trigger from a controller in a split second. It becomes second nature after a while. Its more than enough to accommodate all the needs of an mmo.
Combinations are definitely one way they can handle larger ability sets. However I am not sure how comfortable traditional MMO players would be with a fighting game controller layout. Exactly. So its not really an issue with the hardware, but more the user's willingness to learn a new "trick" so to speak.
Originally posted by FoomerangWhen I play virtua fighter, my characters have 40-60+ moves that I can trigger from a controller in a split second. It becomes second nature after a while. Its more than enough to accommodate all the needs of an mmo.
Combinations are definitely one way they can handle larger ability sets. However I am not sure how comfortable traditional MMO players would be with a fighting game controller layout.
Exactly. So its not really an issue with the hardware, but more the user's willingness to learn a new "trick" so to speak.
Here is another example how it will improve. x sarcasm.
Is that a MMO youre talking about or Simon Says?
Remember the days of City of Heroes/Villains and your hot bars. Some abilities you'd use in groups, some you'd use single target. Those days would be gone (almost are gone).
You think the developers are going to have console players memorize 3-4 button combos and 2 different stick positions per ability just so use PC users can keep our hot bars? Nope.
It will always come back to the lowest denominator, the console.
Us PC users will give up what we've have, or could potentially have, just so someone on a dated console with a limited input device can play with us.
There is nothing positive that could benefit the PC community from jointly sharing an MMO with consoles. It will end up all compromises that we, the PC players, have to give whether we want to or not.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
How consoles can just improve MMO's (x sarcasm) By the way, that PC max settings isnt with any of the high-resolution texture packs that can be downloaded added to it. That is vanilla vs vanilla.
If you start compairing some the the hi-rez texture mod add ons the PC is capable of, it just starts looking stupid and faked, simply because an 8 year old console is that bad.
But Im sure people are going to argue "Wait thats from an Xbox 360 that was released in Nov of 2005". And that is one of my major points.
You think Microsoft and Sony are going to release a new console every 2-3 years to take advantage of the improvements in CPU's and GPU's? F' no they arent. Expect them to be around for eight or so years. And they arent even at the cutting edge of graphic and CPUs even now....
So yeah expect a shared console/PC MMO just to be the best thats ever happened to our genre. Cause it can only be an improvement, right?
I mean feel free to buy high end hardware to play your cartoon mmos, ill be happy playing The Division and Destiny. I can bet The division would have looked like a cartoon if they decided to make the game for Low and Mid range PCs in mind. In the end i rather have developers make a game on a specific set of hardware and get the best optimization out of it than come release filled with glitches and bugs that takes 2 or more years of their time to spend your money on and their time like on AoC and Vanguard and eventually having to go free to play instead of making quality content. And like i said whats the point of those fresh new gpus and cpus every few months when devs dont take advantage of their power and most of all dont know how to fully optimize them. PS4 has all the great features now like Anti-Aliasing, DX11 and other standard visual features. The games on it look almost like CGI and im satified with that.
Originally posted by FoomerangWhen I play virtua fighter, my characters have 40-60+ moves that I can trigger from a controller in a split second. It becomes second nature after a while. Its more than enough to accommodate all the needs of an mmo.
Combinations are definitely one way they can handle larger ability sets. However I am not sure how comfortable traditional MMO players would be with a fighting game controller layout.
Exactly. So its not really an issue with the hardware, but more the user's willingness to learn a new "trick" so to speak.
Here is another example how it will improve. x sarcasm.
Is that a MMO youre talking about or Simon Says?
Remember the days of City of Heroes/Villains and your hot bars. Some abilities you'd use in groups, some you'd use single target. Those days would be gone (almost are gone).
You think the developers are going to have console players memorize 3-4 button combos and 2 different stick positions per ability just so use PC users can keep our hot bars? Nope.
It will always come back to the lowest denominator, the console.
Us PC users will give up what we've have, or could potentially have, just so someone on a dated console with a limited input device can play with us.
There is nothing positive that could benefit the PC community from jointly sharing an MMO with consoles. It will end up all compromises that we, the PC players, have to give whether we want to or not.
This is a traditional tab-target auto-attack mmorpg with all the standard features of mmorpgs with a vanguard style crafting system and lotro style housing system and the gamepad allows for 32 skills to be slotted, 16 on one set and 16 on second set on its cross hotbar system.
not trying to be negative, but come on. this article is way off base
mmorpgs cross platformed only brings about the dumbing down of the game, and any non casual will agree. true the majority of players are casuals, but if they had the opportunity to be more than that they would. If played with people who only play for 2-3 hours a day and still get shit done, so dont equate casual and pro amounts to the amount of time played.
But reguardless, and be honest people, how many of you (like me) sighed at the announcement of The Elder Scrolls online going to be cross platform. true we wouldnt be playing together, but we all know classes skills sets are just gonna be dumbed down
No. It's further dumbing down(if that's even possible) of the genre into instanced killfests. And if full cross platform MMOs ever come to fruition PC players will ROFLstomp facerape consolers. That's a fact.
How consoles can just improve MMO's (x sarcasm) By the way, that PC max settings isnt with any of the high-resolution texture packs that can be downloaded added to it. That is vanilla vs vanilla.
If you start compairing some the the hi-rez texture mod add ons the PC is capable of, it just starts looking stupid and faked, simply because an 8 year old console is that bad.
But Im sure people are going to argue "Wait thats from an Xbox 360 that was released in Nov of 2005". And that is one of my major points.
You think Microsoft and Sony are going to release a new console every 2-3 years to take advantage of the improvements in CPU's and GPU's? F' no they arent. Expect them to be around for eight or so years. And they arent even at the cutting edge of graphic and CPUs even now....
So yeah expect a shared console/PC MMO just to be the best thats ever happened to our genre. Cause it can only be an improvement, right?
I mean feel free to buy high end hardware to play your cartoon mmos, ill be happy playing The Division and Destiny. I can bet The division would have looked like a cartoon if they decided to make the game for Low and Mid range PCs in mind. In the end i rather have developers make a game on a specific set of hardware and get the best optimization out of it than come release filled with glitches and bugs that takes 2 or more years of their time to spend your money on and their time like on AoC and Vanguard and eventually having to go free to play instead of making quality content. And like i said whats the point of those fresh new gpus and cpus every few months when devs dont take advantage of their power and most of all dont know how to fully optimize them. PS4 has all the great features now like Anti-Aliasing, DX11 and other standard visual features. The games on it look almost like CGI and im satified with that.
Well if you are basing cartoon on WoW then it is really old. Anything that is cross platform will have better graphics on the PC. Also for what it costs to buy a next gen console I can plug a new video card in my PC that would blow them away.
I'm really excited about The Division too, but it works because it is a realistic shooter. Being realistic you probably don't have a lot of weird abilities, and abilities are probably for the most part linked to your weapon. For this type of game it works really well.
Originally posted by achesoma No. It's further dumbing down(if that's even possible) of the genre into instanced killfests. And if full cross platform MMOs ever come to fruition PC players will ROFLstomp facerape consolers. That's a fact.
actually it will be console players who will stomp us pc players. why? each and every skill in a game is a command input from controllers(mouse, keyboard or game controllers) through software which are then executed by machine, execution of commands in console is a lot faster than executing commands in computers as computers require hard coded instruction to execute commands, commands must be in accurate form if we want desired output. an example i can give is devil may cry 4 i played in both pc and xbox 360, i used the xbox 360 controller(love the controller ) for pc to play in pc and xbox 360 had it's own controller, when i played in xbox 360 it was very easy to execute harder combos and my score was all the time "ssstylish" but in pc same combos were too hard to execute, console are built for fluid gameplay and they don't bother with precise instruction input from controller but computers require precision or the input code is incomplete to execute desired combo. so basically when console mmo players would fight against pcmmo players their fluid controller would allow them to execute skills faster than pc players and you understand the result by now.
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Originally posted by achesoma No. It's further dumbing down(if that's even possible) of the genre into instanced killfests. And if full cross platform MMOs ever come to fruition PC players will ROFLstomp facerape consolers. That's a fact.
actually it will be console players who will stomp us pc players. why? each and every skill in a game is a command input from controllers(mouse, keyboard or game controllers) through software which are then executed by machine, execution of commands in console is a lot faster than executing commands in computers as computers require hard coded instruction to execute commands, commands must be in accurate form if we want desired output. an example i can give is devil may cry 4 i played in both pc and xbox 360, i used the xbox 360 controller(love the controller ) for pc to play in pc and xbox 360 had it's own controller, when i played in xbox 360 it was very easy to execute harder combos and my score was all the time "ssstylish" but in pc same combos were too hard to execute, console are built for fluid gameplay and they don't bother with precise instruction input from controller but computers require precision or the input code is incomplete to execute desired combo. so basically when console mmo players would fight against pcmmo players their fluid controller would allow them to execute skills faster than pc players and you understand the result by now.
Depends on the game if you can aim and turn with your mouse, you can aim and turn much faster and more accurately than you can with a controller. If there are a lot of abilities someone keybinding will be able to pull those off faster. If they design the game so that you cannot aim and turn with your mouse or use keybinds it may be an even playing field, but this is exactly the kind of dumbing down of games PC gamers are afraid will happen.
SONY, Microsoft and game developers/publishers will strive to put MMO's on the consoles. Those MMO's however would be free-to-play MMO's most likely as a "feature" of XBL/PSN membership and we can expect many in-game cash stores.... why? Because it worked on the PC and it'll work on consoles too. It's only the next logical step in reinforcing always-on DRM!
I feel console given its not a sudden boom of MMos could have a 'small' shift in expanding the population and bringing more to games, though its mostly a numbers game and changes it could bring might not be for our best interest.
I will make my answer as short and direct to the point.
No. The MMO genre is headed for disaster IMO. (to clarify that means In my opinion)
I am not a financial expert, stock broker or developer. All of this is based off opinion or talking to others. I am a gamer though and I can see trends changing and the mood of other gamers. In general...dissatisfaction is what I find most.
Nothing is holding peoples attention for long. I don't think this will change by throwing consoles into the mix. I hope I am wrong, I enjoy MMO's and the entire genre. I think we will see MMOs return to a smaller crowd of people. Not like when it first started in EQ/UO days but a shift in numbers for sure.
Either way, no one can deny that the genre and entire market is evolving and I am very excited with a pinch of nervous, to see what happens next.
How consoles can just improve MMO's (x sarcasm) By the way, that PC max settings isnt with any of the high-resolution texture packs that can be downloaded added to it. That is vanilla vs vanilla.
If you start compairing some the the hi-rez texture mod add ons the PC is capable of, it just starts looking stupid and faked, simply because an 8 year old console is that bad.
But Im sure people are going to argue "Wait thats from an Xbox 360 that was released in Nov of 2005". And that is one of my major points.
You think Microsoft and Sony are going to release a new console every 2-3 years to take advantage of the improvements in CPU's and GPU's? F' no they arent. Expect them to be around for eight or so years. And they arent even at the cutting edge of graphic and CPUs even now....
So yeah expect a shared console/PC MMO just to be the best thats ever happened to our genre. Cause it can only be an improvement, right?
I mean feel free to buy high end hardware to play your cartoon mmos, ill be happy playing The Division and Destiny. I can bet The division would have looked like a cartoon if they decided to make the game for Low and Mid range PCs in mind. In the end i rather have developers make a game on a specific set of hardware and get the best optimization out of it than come release filled with glitches and bugs that takes 2 or more years of their time to spend your money on and their time like on AoC and Vanguard and eventually having to go free to play instead of making quality content. And like i said whats the point of those fresh new gpus and cpus every few months when devs dont take advantage of their power and most of all dont know how to fully optimize them. PS4 has all the great features now like Anti-Aliasing, DX11 and other standard visual features. The games on it look almost like CGI and im satified with that.
Maybe youre not getting my point, or maybe you are and youre just ignoring it. And btw Im not arguing that there souldnt be console MMO's, "In the end i rather have developers make a game on a specific set of hardware and get the best optimization out of it than come release filled with glitches and bugs that takes 2 or more years of their time to spend your money on.."This statement shows that you dont have a clue what Im tallking about Because that is exactly what would happen (according to you) in a shared funded/developed console/PC MMO. And again Im not arguing in a time frame of months, but years.
Lets try it this way-
A console or any motherbord based hardware is damn near out of date when its released. So right now if they made a console/PC MMO the tech specs are close enough you wouldnt see a difference graphics-wise, and maybe processor-wise.
But give it 3 years, give it 5 years, give it 7 years and that console is still going to have the same specs that it had when it released this year. Which means that 5 years from now a share funded console/PC MMO is going to have its graphics, its CPU processing, its memory optimized for console hardware that is 5 (or how ever many) years old. That is a fact that cant be ignored or refuted.
While if it was just a PC only MMO it will be optimized for the current generation of hardware and firmware for whatever year it was made.
Pretend all you want, I gave you a clear cut example of the differences for vanilla Skyrim that didnt take advantage of the current hardware we have or mods for that matter. And if you want I go dig up that Crytec Engine example where it was a step forward for a consoles but it was a major step back for the PC.
No matter how you want it not to be, or wish it wasnt, a share funded console/PC MMO would mean it would be optimized for the lowest denominator, the console, which means a step back for us PC MMO gamers, in graphics, in UI, in A.I., in quantity of items, in visual quality of items, in animations, in the number of players and NPCs that can be displayed, in every aspect of the MMO, there is no, and I mean NO advantage that a PC would gain by being optimized for a console. As in zero. Hell, that even goes for funding, cant forget that.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
Well if you are basing cartoon on WoW then it is really old. Anything that is cross platform will have better graphics on the PC. Also for what it costs to buy a next gen console I can plug a new video card in my PC that would blow them away.
I'm really excited about The Division too, but it works because it is a realistic shooter. Being realistic you probably don't have a lot of weird abilities, and abilities are probably for the most part linked to your weapon. For this type of game it works really well.
Im talking about Wildstar, GW2 and Neverwinter which all can be played with a gamepad btw, ive tried GW2 and Neverwinter using xpadder and Wildstar looks to be using the same limited hotbar system with action combat. But you dont need a new video card to run most of these games on max settings, and you dont need the new one that comes 6 months after that video card either. I had GW2 running everything on max with the lowest anti-aliasing with a 9800 GT on a older PC. WoW is old but it still shows just how many people still run on low end machines and the devs will always cater to them the most because they are where the money at. If the devs made a game specifically for the highest end hardware the games would look like a CGI.
And as i said earlier FFXIV ARR has way more skills than The Division and is a traditional mmorpg and its gamepad works just as well with the keyboard controls.
And honestly I think ESO would have had better graphics if it was made with only PS4 and Xbox One hardware in mind but since its not they had to tone down the graphics for low end and mid range PCs cuz the graphics do not look as good as the single player games, it has slight cartoon look to it not as photo realistic as its other titles.
Maybe i'm a bit of a pc elitist for saying this but HELL NO!!!! I get really anoyed seeing one genre after another become a console first genre. Many genre's have been utterly destroyed, i mean really completely destroyed to make it console friendly. Console and console gamer friendly even. Remember how Command and Conquer used to be a great RTS game, where you could build single units and with just a simple drag of the mouse and then ctrl +1 you created a group out of them, mixing all kind of units together for your army and then tank rush the enemy. Well that worked great for the pc but publishers figured that the mainstream gamer, who mostly plays on the console is where the big money is. So they decided to make C&C for the consoles too. Now there where old C&C games on the Playstation 1 and N64, they port it just like that. But no...now the games had to be optimized for consoles...so what do you do. To get a sense for a bigger army you poop out groups of units that count as one, you make smaller maps, you make it far to easy cause hey the mainstream gamer needs to feel good about themselves for finishing a game and shouldn't have to work for it cause god forbid you have to redo a mission.
Command and Conquer 4, the one C&C all C&C fans have been boycotting was a direct result of a RTS game made with the first thought about making it a console game. Gone was base building, gone where big armies, gone was everything that made C&C a C&C game (beside the movies). And the ironic part is that C&C4 was never released on the consoles so they kicked the pc gamer who been a massaive C&C fan hard in the balls.
Same for supreme commander 2....they made the maps insanely small compared to supreme commander 1, they removed a lot of different units and made many look a like. Just so the console could pull it off.
Consoles have their own genre's that work great. But i'm sick and tired to see every game, every genre having to be a console first thing. MMO's on the console? No, its not gonna work. As Hokie said, the console is the weaker machine, it can't keep up with the pc in graphics. This is no elite talk, this is pure facts. A console can't be improved, its not like you can buy a new videocard for your xbox or playstation, you can't buy more memory or a new motherboard. The power of the console is that you just buy your game without having to think about a thing.
Also the MMO genre has suffered a lot from mainstream already. Every game has to look like that one big seller cause publishers who can only think about money really believe that in order to get the same success you have to be the exact same.
But hey, one bright side of this all. The xbox had a massive line of MMORPG's aswell for the 360. But in the end only final fantasy 11 came out for it. Age of Conan, Champions online, World of Warcraft, etc. etc. never saw light on the xbox 360 even though announced (though WoW not officially i believe, but there where strong rumors).
It's not that i don't want console gamers to enjoy MMO's. But i as pc gamer am just fed up with my genre's going to hell cause they have to be made console friendly. I miss the old tactical shooters cause now they have to be super simple holywood action shooters to please the mainstream console gamer (mainstream console gamer is not every console gamer). And all those damn assists are even ported to the pc...remember the time you actually had to aim on your enemy before shooting? Now you can miss by two meters and still get a freaking headshot, how is that fun?
FPS and RTS, two genre's that where seen as pc favored genre's already dumbed down, got destroyed just to make sure the console gamer's needs where saturated first. Don't let the MMO genre become the next please.
No matter how you want it not to be, or wish it wasnt, a share funded console/PC MMO would mean it would be optimized for the lowest denominator, the console, which means a step back for us PC MMO gamers, in graphics, in UI, in A.I., in quantity of items, in visual quality of items, in animations, in the number of players and NPCs that can be displayed, in every aspect of the MMO, there is no, and I mean NO advantage that a PC would gain by being optimized for a console. As in zero. Hell, that even goes for funding, cant forget that.
FFXIV ARR proved that entire statement wrong it has better visual quality and animations/particle effects everything than GW2, Wildstar, AoC, Lotro, Neverwinter, WoW and i could go on. As a matter of fact people have been complaining that it has too much particle effects and wants the devs to tone it down. The games animations makes all those PC exclusive mmos a joke. The zones and how many players and items are just as big and open as any of those other mmos. Its combat and UI is as traditional as WoW and lotro. And most of all the neither the gamepad or keyboard controls were dumbed down for the other. I even showed you that with the youtube videos and explained that the gamepad can use up to 32 skills with its cross-hotbar system for gamepad and I showed that the PC UI and controls are exactly the same as any other PC only mmo. And its one of the most polished mmos i have played.
Well if you are basing cartoon on WoW then it is really old. Anything that is cross platform will have better graphics on the PC. Also for what it costs to buy a next gen console I can plug a new video card in my PC that would blow them away.
I'm really excited about The Division too, but it works because it is a realistic shooter. Being realistic you probably don't have a lot of weird abilities, and abilities are probably for the most part linked to your weapon. For this type of game it works really well.
Im talking about Wildstar, GW2 and Neverwinter which all can be played with a gamepad btw, ive tried GW2 and Neverwinter using xpadder and Wildstar looks to be using the same limited hotbar system with action combat. But you dont need a new video card to run most of these games on max settings, and you dont need the new one that comes 6 months after that video card either. I had GW2 running everything on max with the lowest anti-aliasing with a 9800 GT on a older PC. WoW is old but it still shows just how many people still run on low end machines and the devs will always cater to them the most because they are where the money at. If the devs made a game specifically for the highest end hardware the games would look like a CGI.
And as i said earlier FFXIV ARR has way more skills than The Division and is a traditional mmorpg and its gamepad works just as well with the keyboard controls.
And honestly I think ESO would have had better graphics if it was made with only PS4 and Xbox One hardware in mind but since its not they had to tone down the graphics for low end and mid range PCs cuz the graphics do not look as good as the single player games, it has slight cartoon look to it not as photo realistic as its other titles.
Wildstar looks to be the bomb, and I am super excited to try it out. Haven't tried GW2. Neverwinter controls felt super clunky on the PC so bad that I actually did play it with a controller because the control system is really really suck for keyboard and mouse.
As far as graphics go you are correct on some points but the console resolution is something even low end PCs can handle so they aren't having to make many sacrifices for PC if anything it is the other way around. If you want to run higher resolution you can only do that on the PC, and tweak it to run exactly how you want. On the console you generally don't get that many settings to control how it looks, which to be fair are also not generally needed until you are doing things like 40 man raids with tons of effects going off at the same time. How these things play on the next gen consoles when packed with players remains to be seen.
Really I don't think the number of skills is super important as long as the game is fun, and the interface is intuitive.
Also pretty much any cross platform game generally looks great on 1 platform, and the others not so much to varying degrees. I haven't seen many games though that look worse on the PC, you do however get games that have dumbed down console UIs that are ported to PC but they still end up looking better. Of course if they concentrate on one platform that platform will look awesome, I think that goes without saying but if they made ESO PC only it would likely have better graphics(on the high end) than it every could on the consoles, because consoles have more limitations than the PC.
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Well if you been seeing all the posts from all the players in the beta on this site (my self included) many have been very well received. I havent seen one poster complain about the UI and controls for either gamepad or keyboard and mouse. I myself have been playing the beta with the gamepad on my PC and have grouped up with players using keyboard in dungeon runs. I only use the keyboard for only when I chat. How difficult it is designing the games control and UI is really dependent on the developer and for SE it prolly wasnt difficult since they have been making many games for gamepad. Most other mmorpgs developer arent used to making games with the gamepad so a lot of times they end up with bad designs like trion with defiance.
When I play virtua fighter, my characters have 40-60+ moves that I can trigger from a controller in a split second. It becomes second nature after a while. Its more than enough to accommodate all the needs of an mmo.
Well it is clear you are a fan of the game. But I rarely trust beta impressions. Also this site hasn't been great at picking winners in the past, but they do have some good articles. Once again though it isn't 100% about the UI, a UI can ruin a game but the UI can't make a bad game great. I'm not talking specifically about FFXIV but games in general, and how well the first few console MMORPGs are received by the players and how well they sell will have a big effect on the future of MMORPG console gaming.
Here is a good example of what Im talking about.
How consoles can just improve MMO's (x sarcasm) By the way, that PC max settings isnt with any of the high-resolution texture packs that can be downloaded added to it. That is vanilla vs vanilla.
If you start compairing some the the hi-rez texture mod add ons the PC is capable of, it just starts looking stupid and faked, simply because an 8 year old console is that bad.
But Im sure people are going to argue "Wait thats from an Xbox 360 that was released in Nov of 2005". And that is one of my major points.
You think Microsoft and Sony are going to release a new console every 2-3 years to take advantage of the improvements in CPU's and GPU's? F' no they arent. Expect them to be around for eight or so years. And they arent even at the cutting edge of graphic and CPUs even now....
So yeah expect a shared console/PC MMO just to be the best thats ever happened to our genre. Cause it can only be an improvement, right?"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
Combinations are definitely one way they can handle larger ability sets. However I am not sure how comfortable traditional MMO players would be with a fighting game controller layout.
Exactly. So its not really an issue with the hardware, but more the user's willingness to learn a new "trick" so to speak.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Here is another example how it will improve. x sarcasm.
Is that a MMO youre talking about or Simon Says?
Remember the days of City of Heroes/Villains and your hot bars. Some abilities you'd use in groups, some you'd use single target. Those days would be gone (almost are gone).
You think the developers are going to have console players memorize 3-4 button combos and 2 different stick positions per ability just so use PC users can keep our hot bars? Nope.
It will always come back to the lowest denominator, the console.
Us PC users will give up what we've have, or could potentially have, just so someone on a dated console with a limited input device can play with us.
There is nothing positive that could benefit the PC community from jointly sharing an MMO with consoles. It will end up all compromises that we, the PC players, have to give whether we want to or not.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
I mean feel free to buy high end hardware to play your cartoon mmos, ill be happy playing The Division and Destiny. I can bet The division would have looked like a cartoon if they decided to make the game for Low and Mid range PCs in mind. In the end i rather have developers make a game on a specific set of hardware and get the best optimization out of it than come release filled with glitches and bugs that takes 2 or more years of their time to spend your money on and their time like on AoC and Vanguard and eventually having to go free to play instead of making quality content. And like i said whats the point of those fresh new gpus and cpus every few months when devs dont take advantage of their power and most of all dont know how to fully optimize them. PS4 has all the great features now like Anti-Aliasing, DX11 and other standard visual features. The games on it look almost like CGI and im satified with that.
Are you saying this in engine graphics is bad? :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5E8n3jWtBM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fNa55oZSsY
Gamepad UI and Control for FFXIV ARR http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hqbg9_ZJLw
Keyboard/Mouse UI for FFXIV ARR - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYeY8dDH5XM
This is a traditional tab-target auto-attack mmorpg with all the standard features of mmorpgs with a vanguard style crafting system and lotro style housing system and the gamepad allows for 32 skills to be slotted, 16 on one set and 16 on second set on its cross hotbar system.
not trying to be negative, but come on. this article is way off base
mmorpgs cross platformed only brings about the dumbing down of the game, and any non casual will agree. true the majority of players are casuals, but if they had the opportunity to be more than that they would. If played with people who only play for 2-3 hours a day and still get shit done, so dont equate casual and pro amounts to the amount of time played.
But reguardless, and be honest people, how many of you (like me) sighed at the announcement of The Elder Scrolls online going to be cross platform. true we wouldnt be playing together, but we all know classes skills sets are just gonna be dumbed down
Well if you are basing cartoon on WoW then it is really old. Anything that is cross platform will have better graphics on the PC. Also for what it costs to buy a next gen console I can plug a new video card in my PC that would blow them away.
I'm really excited about The Division too, but it works because it is a realistic shooter. Being realistic you probably don't have a lot of weird abilities, and abilities are probably for the most part linked to your weapon. For this type of game it works really well.
actually it will be console players who will stomp us pc players. why? each and every skill in a game is a command input from controllers(mouse, keyboard or game controllers) through software which are then executed by machine, execution of commands in console is a lot faster than executing commands in computers as computers require hard coded instruction to execute commands, commands must be in accurate form if we want desired output. an example i can give is devil may cry 4 i played in both pc and xbox 360, i used the xbox 360 controller(love the controller
) for pc to play in pc and xbox 360 had it's own controller, when i played in xbox 360 it was very easy to execute harder combos and my score was all the time "ssstylish" but in pc same combos were too hard to execute, console are built for fluid gameplay and they don't bother with precise instruction input from controller but computers require precision or the input code is incomplete to execute desired combo. so basically when console mmo players would fight against pcmmo players their fluid controller would allow them to execute skills faster than pc players and you understand the result by now.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Depends on the game if you can aim and turn with your mouse, you can aim and turn much faster and more accurately than you can with a controller. If there are a lot of abilities someone keybinding will be able to pull those off faster. If they design the game so that you cannot aim and turn with your mouse or use keybinds it may be an even playing field, but this is exactly the kind of dumbing down of games PC gamers are afraid will happen.
SONY, Microsoft and game developers/publishers will strive to put MMO's on the consoles. Those MMO's however would be free-to-play MMO's most likely as a "feature" of XBL/PSN membership and we can expect many in-game cash stores.... why? Because it worked on the PC and it'll work on consoles too. It's only the next logical step in reinforcing always-on DRM!
It doesn't mean we won't have fun though!
I will make my answer as short and direct to the point.
No. The MMO genre is headed for disaster IMO. (to clarify that means In my opinion)
I am not a financial expert, stock broker or developer. All of this is based off opinion or talking to others. I am a gamer though and I can see trends changing and the mood of other gamers. In general...dissatisfaction is what I find most.
Nothing is holding peoples attention for long. I don't think this will change by throwing consoles into the mix. I hope I am wrong, I enjoy MMO's and the entire genre. I think we will see MMOs return to a smaller crowd of people. Not like when it first started in EQ/UO days but a shift in numbers for sure.
Either way, no one can deny that the genre and entire market is evolving and I am very excited with a pinch of nervous, to see what happens next.
MMORPG Gamers/Developers need a reality check!
Maybe youre not getting my point, or maybe you are and youre just ignoring it. And btw Im not arguing that there souldnt be console MMO's, "In the end i rather have developers make a game on a specific set of hardware and get the best optimization out of it than come release filled with glitches and bugs that takes 2 or more years of their time to spend your money on.."This statement shows that you dont have a clue what Im tallking about Because that is exactly what would happen (according to you) in a shared funded/developed console/PC MMO. And again Im not arguing in a time frame of months, but years.
Lets try it this way-
A console or any motherbord based hardware is damn near out of date when its released. So right now if they made a console/PC MMO the tech specs are close enough you wouldnt see a difference graphics-wise, and maybe processor-wise.
But give it 3 years, give it 5 years, give it 7 years and that console is still going to have the same specs that it had when it released this year. Which means that 5 years from now a share funded console/PC MMO is going to have its graphics, its CPU processing, its memory optimized for console hardware that is 5 (or how ever many) years old. That is a fact that cant be ignored or refuted.
While if it was just a PC only MMO it will be optimized for the current generation of hardware and firmware for whatever year it was made.
Pretend all you want, I gave you a clear cut example of the differences for vanilla Skyrim that didnt take advantage of the current hardware we have or mods for that matter. And if you want I go dig up that Crytec Engine example where it was a step forward for a consoles but it was a major step back for the PC.
No matter how you want it not to be, or wish it wasnt, a share funded console/PC MMO would mean it would be optimized for the lowest denominator, the console, which means a step back for us PC MMO gamers, in graphics, in UI, in A.I., in quantity of items, in visual quality of items, in animations, in the number of players and NPCs that can be displayed, in every aspect of the MMO, there is no, and I mean NO advantage that a PC would gain by being optimized for a console. As in zero. Hell, that even goes for funding, cant forget that.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
Im talking about Wildstar, GW2 and Neverwinter which all can be played with a gamepad btw, ive tried GW2 and Neverwinter using xpadder and Wildstar looks to be using the same limited hotbar system with action combat. But you dont need a new video card to run most of these games on max settings, and you dont need the new one that comes 6 months after that video card either. I had GW2 running everything on max with the lowest anti-aliasing with a 9800 GT on a older PC. WoW is old but it still shows just how many people still run on low end machines and the devs will always cater to them the most because they are where the money at. If the devs made a game specifically for the highest end hardware the games would look like a CGI.
And as i said earlier FFXIV ARR has way more skills than The Division and is a traditional mmorpg and its gamepad works just as well with the keyboard controls.
And honestly I think ESO would have had better graphics if it was made with only PS4 and Xbox One hardware in mind but since its not they had to tone down the graphics for low end and mid range PCs cuz the graphics do not look as good as the single player games, it has slight cartoon look to it not as photo realistic as its other titles.
Maybe i'm a bit of a pc elitist for saying this but HELL NO!!!! I get really anoyed seeing one genre after another become a console first genre. Many genre's have been utterly destroyed, i mean really completely destroyed to make it console friendly. Console and console gamer friendly even. Remember how Command and Conquer used to be a great RTS game, where you could build single units and with just a simple drag of the mouse and then ctrl +1 you created a group out of them, mixing all kind of units together for your army and then tank rush the enemy. Well that worked great for the pc but publishers figured that the mainstream gamer, who mostly plays on the console is where the big money is. So they decided to make C&C for the consoles too. Now there where old C&C games on the Playstation 1 and N64, they port it just like that. But no...now the games had to be optimized for consoles...so what do you do. To get a sense for a bigger army you poop out groups of units that count as one, you make smaller maps, you make it far to easy cause hey the mainstream gamer needs to feel good about themselves for finishing a game and shouldn't have to work for it cause god forbid you have to redo a mission.
Command and Conquer 4, the one C&C all C&C fans have been boycotting was a direct result of a RTS game made with the first thought about making it a console game. Gone was base building, gone where big armies, gone was everything that made C&C a C&C game (beside the movies). And the ironic part is that C&C4 was never released on the consoles so they kicked the pc gamer who been a massaive C&C fan hard in the balls.
Same for supreme commander 2....they made the maps insanely small compared to supreme commander 1, they removed a lot of different units and made many look a like. Just so the console could pull it off.
Consoles have their own genre's that work great. But i'm sick and tired to see every game, every genre having to be a console first thing. MMO's on the console? No, its not gonna work. As Hokie said, the console is the weaker machine, it can't keep up with the pc in graphics. This is no elite talk, this is pure facts. A console can't be improved, its not like you can buy a new videocard for your xbox or playstation, you can't buy more memory or a new motherboard. The power of the console is that you just buy your game without having to think about a thing.
Also the MMO genre has suffered a lot from mainstream already. Every game has to look like that one big seller cause publishers who can only think about money really believe that in order to get the same success you have to be the exact same.
But hey, one bright side of this all. The xbox had a massive line of MMORPG's aswell for the 360. But in the end only final fantasy 11 came out for it. Age of Conan, Champions online, World of Warcraft, etc. etc. never saw light on the xbox 360 even though announced (though WoW not officially i believe, but there where strong rumors).
It's not that i don't want console gamers to enjoy MMO's. But i as pc gamer am just fed up with my genre's going to hell cause they have to be made console friendly. I miss the old tactical shooters cause now they have to be super simple holywood action shooters to please the mainstream console gamer (mainstream console gamer is not every console gamer). And all those damn assists are even ported to the pc...remember the time you actually had to aim on your enemy before shooting? Now you can miss by two meters and still get a freaking headshot, how is that fun?
FPS and RTS, two genre's that where seen as pc favored genre's already dumbed down, got destroyed just to make sure the console gamer's needs where saturated first. Don't let the MMO genre become the next please.
FFXIV ARR proved that entire statement wrong it has better visual quality and animations/particle effects everything than GW2, Wildstar, AoC, Lotro, Neverwinter, WoW and i could go on. As a matter of fact people have been complaining that it has too much particle effects and wants the devs to tone it down. The games animations makes all those PC exclusive mmos a joke. The zones and how many players and items are just as big and open as any of those other mmos. Its combat and UI is as traditional as WoW and lotro. And most of all the neither the gamepad or keyboard controls were dumbed down for the other. I even showed you that with the youtube videos and explained that the gamepad can use up to 32 skills with its cross-hotbar system for gamepad and I showed that the PC UI and controls are exactly the same as any other PC only mmo. And its one of the most polished mmos i have played.
Preview of some of the skills animations http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2RghB8r4tA
Wildstar looks to be the bomb, and I am super excited to try it out. Haven't tried GW2. Neverwinter controls felt super clunky on the PC so bad that I actually did play it with a controller because the control system is really really suck for keyboard and mouse.
As far as graphics go you are correct on some points but the console resolution is something even low end PCs can handle so they aren't having to make many sacrifices for PC if anything it is the other way around. If you want to run higher resolution you can only do that on the PC, and tweak it to run exactly how you want. On the console you generally don't get that many settings to control how it looks, which to be fair are also not generally needed until you are doing things like 40 man raids with tons of effects going off at the same time. How these things play on the next gen consoles when packed with players remains to be seen.
Really I don't think the number of skills is super important as long as the game is fun, and the interface is intuitive.
Also pretty much any cross platform game generally looks great on 1 platform, and the others not so much to varying degrees. I haven't seen many games though that look worse on the PC, you do however get games that have dumbed down console UIs that are ported to PC but they still end up looking better. Of course if they concentrate on one platform that platform will look awesome, I think that goes without saying but if they made ESO PC only it would likely have better graphics(on the high end) than it every could on the consoles, because consoles have more limitations than the PC.
I like Wildstar too and I think that game could work on PS3/PS4 too if they really wanted to and not dumb down anything for either UIs and controls.