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To everyone who wants non-consensual PvP

JigawattsJigawatts Sarasota, FLPosts: 44Member

For those who are unaware and desire a fantasy based sandbox FFA non-consensual PvP game, there is one currently being developed from the ground up just for you, it literally has just about everything the FFA PvP people have said they wanted.

It's called Pathfinder Online.

There will be player/guild owned keeps that rival guilds can attack/destroy/commandeer. There are no loot drops from mobs, the only thing mobs drop is crafting mats. All gear will come from player made crafters. And while it is a game of non-consenual PvP, they are adopting systems in the game that prevent griefing, such as guards in/near settlements (but not out in the wilds) and bounties, so PvP will be meaningful and have consequences. Also there will be no levels, it is entirely skill based.

The game is basically EVE set in a fantasy world, where you play as a humanoid character instead of a starship.

Enjoy.

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Comments

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jigawatts

    For those who are unaware and desire a fantasy based sandbox FFA non-consensual PvP game, there is one currently being developed from the ground up just for you, it literally has just about everything the FFA PvP people have said they wanted.

    It's called Pathfinder Online.

    There will be player/guild owned keeps that rival guilds can attack/destroy/commandeer. There are no loot drops from mobs, the only thing mobs drop is crafting mats. All gear will come from player made crafters. And while it is a game of non-consenual PvP, they are adopting systems in the game that prevent griefing, such as guards in/near settlements (but not out in the wilds) and bounties, so PvP will be meaningful and have consequences. Also there will be no levels, it is entirely skill based.

    The game is basically EVE set in a fantasy world, where you play as a humanoid character instead of a starship.

    Enjoy.

    We also have Darkfall and MO but they kinda suck.  We will welcome EQN gladly to the FFA PvP fold.

    For those of you who want a purely PvE experience enjoy almost every MMO ever.

  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member
    Originally posted by Jigawatts

    For those who are unaware and desire a fantasy based sandbox FFA non-consensual PvP game, there is one currently being developed from the ground up just for you, it literally has just about everything the FFA PvP people have said they wanted.

    It's called Pathfinder Online.

    There will be player/guild owned keeps that rival guilds can attack/destroy/commandeer. There are no loot drops from mobs, the only thing mobs drop is crafting mats. All gear will come from player made crafters. And while it is a game of non-consenual PvP, they are adopting systems in the game that prevent griefing, such as guards in/near settlements (but not out in the wilds) and bounties, so PvP will be meaningful and have consequences. Also there will be no levels, it is entirely skill based.

    The game is basically EVE set in a fantasy world, where you play as a humanoid character instead of a starship.

    Enjoy.

    Pathfinder Online is a little more complicated than just FFA.  There's a lot of forethought being used with that game and I have a feeling EQ Next might be similar to it actually.  I wouldn't call PO FFA PvP.  It is non-consenual though.  In a way I guess. Basically the safe zones will be enforced by guards in a given area.  The more valuable resources and your own settlement is vulnerable.  That's why crafting is important to build your resources up and make it a safe zone for you.  Risking PvP and getting back safe offers greater rewards.  While you have the option of playing it safe and doing stuff in your own backyard for minimal risk and less rewards.  PvE will function as force incursions and events.  Not quests, but actual things happening in the world and players adjusting to that.  Think Goblin horde invasion that if left unabated will grow and start affecting multiple player settlements.  All of a sudden neighbors might need to team up to defend against this PvE threat.  Stuff like that.

    BTW Smed already compared EQNext to EVE as part of the inspiration.  So yeah.  Oh and  you're right about EVE being inspiration for PO as well.  Ryan Dancey worked at CCP and basically said they wanted to bring the EVE model to the Fantasy MMO.

     

  • furbansfurbans Tinbucktwo, IAPosts: 965Member

    And when is it gonna be done?  4 years?

    Ideals are great n all but we have yet to see a kickstarter MMO be completed yet.  For all we know they will all be just complete crap because they cannot financially complete the task at least to the acceptable level.

  • bexinhbexinh MelbournePosts: 68Member
    If EQn is full pvp and no pve then it would be a big disappointment for me. I would rather go and playing Ghost recon online. I hope there will be something for everyone in EQn. Really cant wait to see the new world of Norrath.
  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bexinh
    If EQn is full pvp and no pve then it would be a big disappointment for me. I would rather go and playing Ghost recon online. I hope there will be something for everyone in EQn. Really cant wait to see the new world of Norrath.

    Agreed, it must balance both.

  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member
    Originally posted by furbans

    And when is it gonna be done?  4 years?

    Ideals are great n all but we have yet to see a kickstarter MMO be completed yet.  For all we know they will all be just complete crap because they cannot financially complete the task at least to the acceptable level.

    Well for PO, their Alpha stage starts next summer.  They will then start beta about 10 months to a year after that is their current projection.  They're using the Unity engine, so the graphics won't be great.  They'll probably look a little dated.  They will be charging a sub and they only want and expect about 200,000 (tops) to play their game at release.  They are looking to start small and grow the population with a dedicated community base.

     

     

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by bexinh
    If EQn is full pvp and no pve then it would be a big disappointment for me. I would rather go and playing Ghost recon online. I hope there will be something for everyone in EQn. Really cant wait to see the new world of Norrath.

    Agreed, it must balance both.

    So do you believe in consensual PvP or forced PvP?  Kind of confused about several threads you've posted recently.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • ice-vortexice-vortex Xenia, OHPosts: 951Member
    Originally posted by bexinh
    If EQn is full pvp and no pve then it would be a big disappointment for me. I would rather go and playing Ghost recon online. I hope there will be something for everyone in EQn. Really cant wait to see the new world of Norrath.

    I am sure it will have some sandbox PVE, but it won't have the item progression that themeparks have.

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon
    If it's FFA PvP that's fine if that's what they want to do. I will be a little upset if they don't at least have a PvE server. I don't see any reason not to. Even DAOC had a co-op server.

    image
  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member
    Originally posted by ice-vortex
    Originally posted by bexinh
    If EQn is full pvp and no pve then it would be a big disappointment for me. I would rather go and playing Ghost recon online. I hope there will be something for everyone in EQn. Really cant wait to see the new world of Norrath.

    I am sure it will have some sandbox PVE, but it won't have the item progression that themeparks have.

    Well they're going to have a cutting edge PvE UGC software in the game....so I'm guessing PvE will be in there.  Just players will be making it.

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by bexinh
    If EQn is full pvp and no pve then it would be a big disappointment for me. I would rather go and playing Ghost recon online. I hope there will be something for everyone in EQn. Really cant wait to see the new world of Norrath.

    Agreed, it must balance both.

    So do you believe in consensual PvP or forced PvP?  Kind of confused about several threads you've posted recently.

    I believe in FFA full loot PvP with just consequences.  It should be VERY difficult for wanton PKers to survive/thrive in the game-world.  But even an FFA game needs PvE.

    Basically, the concepts of EvE in a fantasy game-world but with a much more robust punishment system.

    Any PvPer who whines about being punished for murdering and robbing people is a pussy IMO and they should get outta the kitchen.  I want a game where if I murder someone I get a bounty on me, I get hunted down not just by other players but by NPCs as well, and I possibly, if I get a high enough bounty (like murder 100 innocent people or something) can be perma-killed by an in-game event (public execution) IF they manage to catch me.

    I want to be a murderer and a thief, but I don't want to be a ganker who is just free to wander around and attack any noob I lay my eyes on with not threat of consequence.  That is JUST as boring as having no PvP at all.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by bexinh
    If EQn is full pvp and no pve then it would be a big disappointment for me. I would rather go and playing Ghost recon online. I hope there will be something for everyone in EQn. Really cant wait to see the new world of Norrath.

    Agreed, it must balance both.

    So do you believe in consensual PvP or forced PvP?  Kind of confused about several threads you've posted recently.

    I believe in FFA full loot PvP with just consequences.  It should be VERY difficult for wanton PKers to survive/thrive in the game-world.  But even an FFA game needs PvE.

    Basically, the concepts of EvE in a fantasy game-world but with a much more robust punishment system.

    Any PvPer who whines about being punished for murdering and robbing people is a pussy IMO and they should get outta the kitchen.  I want a game where if I murder someone I get a bounty on me, I get hunted down not just by other players but by NPCs as well, and I possibly, if I get a high enough bounty (like murder 100 innocent people or something) can be perma-killed by an in-game event (public execution) IF they manage to catch me.

    I want to be a murderer and a thief, but I don't want to be a ganker who is just free to wander around and attack any noob I lay my eyes on with not threat of consequence.  That is JUST as boring as having no PvP at all.

    Alright just checking although I do disagree with you.  I think you can achieve balance and a good game needs both but it doesn't necessarily need non-consensual PvP.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • JigawattsJigawatts Sarasota, FLPosts: 44Member
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by Jigawatts

    For those who are unaware and desire a fantasy based sandbox FFA non-consensual PvP game, there is one currently being developed from the ground up just for you, it literally has just about everything the FFA PvP people have said they wanted.

    It's called Pathfinder Online.

    There will be player/guild owned keeps that rival guilds can attack/destroy/commandeer. There are no loot drops from mobs, the only thing mobs drop is crafting mats. All gear will come from player made crafters. And while it is a game of non-consenual PvP, they are adopting systems in the game that prevent griefing, such as guards in/near settlements (but not out in the wilds) and bounties, so PvP will be meaningful and have consequences. Also there will be no levels, it is entirely skill based.

    The game is basically EVE set in a fantasy world, where you play as a humanoid character instead of a starship.

    Enjoy.

    We also have Darkfall and MO but they kinda suck.  We will welcome EQN gladly to the FFA PvP fold.

    For those of you who want a purely PvE experience enjoy almost every MMO ever.

    Since SWG went offline (especially pre-NGE), name the number of non PvP focused sandbox MMO's currently available (in the US).

  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member
    Originally posted by Entinerint
     

    I believe in FFA full loot PvP with just consequences.  It should be VERY difficult for wanton PKers to survive/thrive in the game-world.  But even an FFA game needs PvE.

    Basically, the concepts of EvE in a fantasy game-world but with a much more robust punishment system.

    Any PvPer who whines about being punished for murdering and robbing people is a pussy IMO and they should get outta the kitchen.  I want a game where if I murder someone I get a bounty on me, I get hunted down not just by other players but by NPCs as well, and I possibly, if I get a high enough bounty (like murder 100 innocent people or something) can be perma-killed by an in-game event (public execution) IF they manage to catch me.

    I want to be a murderer and a thief, but I don't want to be a ganker who is just free to wander around and attack any noob I lay my eyes on with not threat of consequence.  That is JUST as boring as having no PvP at all.

    EQNext is going to be F2P.  Meaning people can create dozens of accounts and will.  For the sole purpose of making Smurf accounts to troll and terrorize the player base and game itself.  Whatever FFA full loot PvP system that is put in place needs to have heavy restrictions or the abuse will destroy the game.  That simple.

  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member
    Originally posted by Jigawatts
     

    Since SWG went offline (especially pre-NGE), name the number of non PvP focused sandbox MMO's currently available (in the US).

    Second Life.

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by bexinh
    If EQn is full pvp and no pve then it would be a big disappointment for me. I would rather go and playing Ghost recon online. I hope there will be something for everyone in EQn. Really cant wait to see the new world of Norrath.

    Agreed, it must balance both.

    So do you believe in consensual PvP or forced PvP?  Kind of confused about several threads you've posted recently.

    I believe in FFA full loot PvP with just consequences.  It should be VERY difficult for wanton PKers to survive/thrive in the game-world.  But even an FFA game needs PvE.

    Basically, the concepts of EvE in a fantasy game-world but with a much more robust punishment system.

    Any PvPer who whines about being punished for murdering and robbing people is a pussy IMO and they should get outta the kitchen.  I want a game where if I murder someone I get a bounty on me, I get hunted down not just by other players but by NPCs as well, and I possibly, if I get a high enough bounty (like murder 100 innocent people or something) can be perma-killed by an in-game event (public execution) IF they manage to catch me.

    I want to be a murderer and a thief, but I don't want to be a ganker who is just free to wander around and attack any noob I lay my eyes on with not threat of consequence.  That is JUST as boring as having no PvP at all.

    Alright just checking although I do disagree with you.  I think you can achieve balance and a good game needs both but it doesn't necessarily need non-consensual PvP.

    Well, no game "needs" anything.  I just think that a game that could pull this off (never seen it done right IMO) would be the most involving, rewarding and dynamic MMO possible.

    It would basically have the feel of like Game of Thrones but as an online game.  Incredible.  Granted, it will probably never happen.  Devs always seem to fall short even when they aim for FFA PvP.

  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member
    Originally posted by Entinerint
     

    Well, no game "needs" anything.  I just think that a game that could pull this off (never seen it done right IMO) would be the most involving, rewarding and dynamic MMO possible.

    It would basically have the feel of like Game of Thrones but as an online game.  Incredible.  Granted, it will probably never happen.  Devs always seem to fall short even when they aim for FFA PvP.

    I agree with you that would be cool.  But then you would need to put in permadeath as well.  And well...if you thought FFA full loot PvP was unpopular.  lol

    Problem with PvP in that structure is that people whom don't really want to play the game can use that to their advantage.  With a F2P it costs them nothing to ruin the community.  And they will.  Respawn after respawn.  New Account created after New Account created.

  • IncomparableIncomparable KuwaitPosts: 872Member

    How is it pvp to consent to killing or dying? That sounds artificial in a sandbox.

    OP tries to make it sound like it rape to have non-consentual pvp. If it has pvp in a sandbox there is only one kind in the open world.

    trying to change that means its not a sandbox anymore.

    “Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member
    Originally posted by Incomparable

    How is it pvp to consent to killing or dying? That sounds artificial in a sandbox.

    OP tries to make it sound like it rape to have non-consentual pvp. If it has pvp in a sandbox there is only one kind in the open world.

    trying to change that means its not a sandbox anymore.

    Sandbox refers to UGC, not whether or not you can choose to attack a player.

  • fyerwallfyerwall Posts: 3,155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Incomparable

    How is it pvp to consent to killing or dying? That sounds artificial in a sandbox.

    OP tries to make it sound like it rape to have non-consentual pvp. If it has pvp in a sandbox there is only one kind in the open world.

    trying to change that means its not a sandbox anymore.

    Sandbox =/= PvP. Never has, never will.

    There are 3 types of people in the world.
    1.) Those who make things happen
    2.) Those who watch things happen
    3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


    image

  • JigawattsJigawatts Sarasota, FLPosts: 44Member
    Originally posted by Incomparable

    How is it pvp to consent to killing or dying? That sounds artificial in a sandbox.

    OP tries to make it sound like it rape to have non-consentual pvp. If it has pvp in a sandbox there is only one kind in the open world.

    trying to change that means its not a sandbox anymore.

    Rape?...really? Thats a little extreme. I merely provided info for a game that provides mostly everything PvPers love. And for the record, I am a Kickstarter backer of PO, and will be playing it, and all its non-consensual PvP glory, upon release. With that said it is my hope that non-consensual PvP stays out of Norrath (or is at least divided by separate servers).

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Entinerint
     

    Well, no game "needs" anything.  I just think that a game that could pull this off (never seen it done right IMO) would be the most involving, rewarding and dynamic MMO possible.

    It would basically have the feel of like Game of Thrones but as an online game.  Incredible.  Granted, it will probably never happen.  Devs always seem to fall short even when they aim for FFA PvP.

    I agree with you that would be cool.  But then you would need to put in permadeath as well.  And well...if you thought FFA full loot PvP was unpopular.  lol

    Problem with PvP in that structure is that people whom don't really want to play the game can use that to their advantage.  With a F2P it costs them nothing to ruin the community.  And they will.  Respawn after respawn.  New Account created after New Account created.

    Aaah, but consider this.

    Perma-death could kick in only for the REAL bad apples, with jail-time and fines for lesser criminals.  You commit a LOT of crime and you are sentenced to death.  First, you have to be caught, alive by either players or NPCs.  So those heinous criminals who manage to stay alive will be legendarily notorious.  When caught, you also can't just log out to avoid execution, your character will go through it regardless of you being logged in.  The executions are PUBLIC, so they become a server-wide event where people travel to see this notorious murderer put down for GOOD at a certain time!  Holy crap and then you give the murderer their last words!  What an amazing in-game event that would be.  Screw RP weddings and such, RP executions would be a whole new level of amazing.

    As for your second point there are ways around this too.  For example, IP tagging could be used, but someone dedicated could proxy around that.  What you are talking about is the concept of edge-casing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_case).  The smallest minority will be the dedicated griefers and they will always lose no matter what.  Eventually they'll get fed up and go to playgrounds like Darkfall and Mortal where their behavior is not only permitted but encouraged.  A buy-to-play model is the best way of making sure this gets thwarted however.

    You see, gankers, griefers and trolls are cowards.  They don't want a fair or even fight.  They don't want a challenge and they are the first cry buckets and "hax" when they get killed.  True PKers and PvPers want challenge and consequence.

  • JigawattsJigawatts Sarasota, FLPosts: 44Member
    Originally posted by jdnyc
    Originally posted by Jigawatts
     

    Since SWG went offline (especially pre-NGE), name the number of non PvP focused sandbox MMO's currently available (in the US).

    Second Life.

    Man, Second Life, I dont think I have even thought about that game since the episode of The Office where Dwight and Jim play it. Good episode though.

    Anyway, this kind of proves my point about the lack of non PvP focused sandbox MMO's.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Incomparable

    How is it pvp to consent to killing or dying? That sounds artificial in a sandbox.

    OP tries to make it sound like it rape to have non-consentual pvp. If it has pvp in a sandbox there is only one kind in the open world.

    trying to change that means its not a sandbox anymore.

    PvP is not nor will ever will be part of the definition of a sandbox.  If PvP was the only compelling system needed to claim a game is a sandbox then by your narrow definition WoW is a sandbox.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member
    Originally posted by Entinerint

    Aaah, but consider this.

    Perma-death could kick in only for the REAL bad apples, with jail-time and fines for lesser criminals.  You commit a LOT of crime and you are sentenced to death.  First, you have to be caught, alive by either players or NPCs.  So those heinous criminals who manage to stay alive will be legendarily notorious.  When caught, you also can't just log out to avoid execution, your character will go through it regardless of you being logged in.  The executions are PUBLIC, so they become a server-wide event where people travel to see this notorious murderer put down for GOOD at a certain time!  Holy crap and then you give the murderer their last words!  What an amazing in-game event that would be.  Screw RP weddings and such, RP executions would be a whole new level of amazing.

    As for your second point there are ways around this too.  For example, IP tagging could be used, but someone dedicated could proxy around that.  What you are talking about is the concept of edge-casing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_case).  The smallest minority will be the dedicated griefers and they will always lose no matter what.  Eventually they'll get fed up and go to playgrounds like Darkfall and Mortal where their behavior is not only permitted but encouraged.  A buy-to-play model is the best way of making sure this gets thwarted however.

    You see, gankers, griefers and trolls are cowards.  They don't want a fair or even fight.  They don't want a challenge and they are the first cry buckets and "hax" when they get killed.  True PKers and PvPers want challenge and consequence.

    Interesting ideas.  I like a lot of the concepts you brought up.  However I think you're downplaying the number of people that will play a game for free to abuse a system.  We've seen it plenty before with F2P games.  As long as there's a structure in place that makes it more difficult with consequences, the better off the game and community will be. 

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