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Will WildStar Have Good Gameplay? It Looks Like Its Been Done Before

Imperator101Imperator101 Toronto, ONPosts: 131Member
Judging from the videos, wildstar looks the same as any other MMO as there is a skill bar and you press which attack/power you want to use. The only difference is there is no point and click on the enemies and you just go up and attack them. Am I right about this? This is how the gameplay is? Seems similar to Guild Wars 2 then since GW2 did not have any point and click gameplay and you just went up to the enemy and attacked them without highlighting them first.

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Comments

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Correct there's no tab target combat.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

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  • Sho0terMcgavinSho0terMcgavin Harrisburg, PAPosts: 301Member
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Correct there's no tab target combat.

    But just to be clear, GW2 is still tab target combat.

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  • ZapzapZapzap Someplace, WYPosts: 224Member Uncommon

    The attraction for many in Wildstar is that it promises to bring back difficulty and challenge.  In a time where one can play every MMO while asleep and not worry Wildstar promises to be different.  CEO Gaffney said there are enough easy MMOs out there if you want one you can go play it.  He goes on to say they are making this game for veteran MMO players who want some of the challenge from older games.

    Yes if you want to be technical what Wildstar and every MMO offers features that have been done before.  But what Wildstar is offering in terms of challenge and difficulty is not being done now.  Will it live up to those promises or we will we end up with another shallow game made for modern day adhd gamehoppers?  I guess we will see.

  • newbinatornewbinator LA, CAPosts: 780Member
    The combat feels different from most MMO's I've played, without trying to change things too drastically.
  • steamtanksteamtank Rochester, NYPosts: 385Member
    Originally posted by Zapzap

    The attraction for many in Wildstar is that it promises to bring back difficulty and challenge.  In a time where one can play every MMO while asleep and not worry Wildstar promises to be different.  CEO Gaffney said there are enough easy MMOs out there if you want one you can go play it.  He goes on to say they are making this game for veteran MMO players who want some of the challenge from older games.

    Yes if you want to be technical what Wildstar and every MMO offers features that have been done before.  But what Wildstar is offering in terms of challenge and difficulty is not being done now.  Will it live up to those promises or we will we end up with another shallow game made for modern day adhd gamehoppers?  I guess we will see.

    ^--------------- This guy!

  • MargulisMargulis Glendale, AZPosts: 1,614Member
    Originally posted by Zapzap

    The attraction for many in Wildstar is that it promises to bring back difficulty and challenge.  In a time where one can play every MMO while asleep and not worry Wildstar promises to be different.  CEO Gaffney said there are enough easy MMOs out there if you want one you can go play it.  He goes on to say they are making this game for veteran MMO players who want some of the challenge from older games.

    Yes if you want to be technical what Wildstar and every MMO offers features that have been done before.  But what Wildstar is offering in terms of challenge and difficulty is not being done now.  Will it live up to those promises or we will we end up with another shallow game made for modern day adhd gamehoppers?  I guess we will see.

    Have you watched the raw gameplay footage from E3??  I haven't seen that much hand holding in an mmo to date - there are even huge arrows popping up on screen to guide you to your next quest objective, plus all the other general hand holding features that have become the norm.

    Now maybe dungeons and raids will indeed be challenging, or certain battle elements.  But I'll tell ya, from watching that footage it sure didn't look like difficulty and challenge in your face.

  • WahrHeitWahrHeit SantiagoPosts: 54Member Uncommon

    I know....there is a lot of people hyped about this...but to me...its the same thing....

     

    You got the skill warnings....like wow addons...

    "Sandbox play like you want"....more like just classes...

    Everything its just the same... i really hope its good but dunno...this is not a game i would prepurchase and bet on it :/

  • ZapzapZapzap Someplace, WYPosts: 224Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Margulis
    Originally posted by Zapzap

    The attraction for many in Wildstar is that it promises to bring back difficulty and challenge.  In a time where one can play every MMO while asleep and not worry Wildstar promises to be different.  CEO Gaffney said there are enough easy MMOs out there if you want one you can go play it.  He goes on to say they are making this game for veteran MMO players who want some of the challenge from older games.

    Yes if you want to be technical what Wildstar and every MMO offers features that have been done before.  But what Wildstar is offering in terms of challenge and difficulty is not being done now.  Will it live up to those promises or we will we end up with another shallow game made for modern day adhd gamehoppers?  I guess we will see.

    Have you watched the raw gameplay footage from E3??  I haven't seen that much hand holding in an mmo to date - there are even huge arrows popping up on screen to guide you to your next quest objective, plus all the other general hand holding features that have become the norm.

    Now maybe dungeons and raids will indeed be challenging, or certain battle elements.  But I'll tell ya, from watching that footage it sure didn't look like difficulty and challenge in your face.

    What quest directed game does not have quest tracking?  Your kicking a dead horse here to expect no quest tracking.

    Your also off point here quest tracking has nothing to do with difficulty and is simply a quality of life issue. 

    If you watch the released videos also notice how often these players die from poor play and not paying attention.  Quite a large amount. And at an extremely low level.  While it would be nice to see videos with better more attentive players there appears to be a large penalty included for poor play which is something we have not seen in the modern era of snoozefest easy games.  Now I will agree that Carbines claims  of difficulty and challenge should be approached with skepticism.  Until we play and see it we should always doubt it.  But the promise of difficulty and challenge is the big selling point for many people and what separates this game from the easy mode games of the last 5+ years.

  • VolkmarVolkmar EspooPosts: 2,497Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Margulis
    Originally posted by Zapzap

    The attraction for many in Wildstar is that it promises to bring back difficulty and challenge.  In a time where one can play every MMO while asleep and not worry Wildstar promises to be different.  CEO Gaffney said there are enough easy MMOs out there if you want one you can go play it.  He goes on to say they are making this game for veteran MMO players who want some of the challenge from older games.

    Yes if you want to be technical what Wildstar and every MMO offers features that have been done before.  But what Wildstar is offering in terms of challenge and difficulty is not being done now.  Will it live up to those promises or we will we end up with another shallow game made for modern day adhd gamehoppers?  I guess we will see.

    Have you watched the raw gameplay footage from E3??  I haven't seen that much hand holding in an mmo to date - there are even huge arrows popping up on screen to guide you to your next quest objective, plus all the other general hand holding features that have become the norm.

    Now maybe dungeons and raids will indeed be challenging, or certain battle elements.  But I'll tell ya, from watching that footage it sure didn't look like difficulty and challenge in your face.

    I did. I noticed how often they KEPT DYING!

    When was the last time you saw level 6 characters (out of.... 50? 60?) dying so often because they are learning to play? Granted, I heard the controls were badly implement in E3, maybe they had a slow mouse... also had only limited time to play etc.

    Would be interesting to compare raw Footage to... say, SWTOR and compare how often those guys were dying in comparison to Wildstar. My guess is you will find Wildstar's kept them dying more often.

    Also World Boss! in a level 6 area! Yeeeee! Open PVP area! at level 20! Yeeee! enemies that STUN and ROOT you! at level 6! Yeeeee! Housing integrated in the game from get go! Yeeeeee!

    Honestly, I said it before, but the arrows only appears when you click on a quest and stay on screen for only a few seconds. Not so intrusive as other systems we have seen like giant shaft of light from the sky or flashing objectives or shiny paths created in front of you.

    Did not see any arrows or help in the jumping puzzles, did you? What other hand holding did you see beside the "!" on top of quest givers?

    "If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"



  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,539Member Uncommon

    Telegraph overdrive.

    Everything telegraphs - even trash mobs. Some may like this, I personally can't stand telegraphs.

    When the majority of the combat mechanics is reduced to telegraphs, its just unnecessary.

    Having them on some boss fights, OK... but all the time?

     

  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,767Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Telegraph overdrive.

    Everything telegraphs - even trash mobs. Some may like this, I personally can't stand telegraphs.

    When the majority of the combat mechanics is reduced to telegraphs, its just unnecessary.

    Having them on some boss fights, OK... but all the time?

     

    If you want to base a games difficultly around a mechanic than you need to introduce that mechanic to players early and get them use to it over time not dump it on them for the first time in a boss fight.

    Telegraphs don't bother me much and i really like the idea of blue friendly telegraphs for things like heals and buffs because it will add a lot to the dynamics of fights.  It will really force people to pay attention to not only their own DPS parse but also what everyone around them is doing as well.

    I am curious how they are going to manage 40 people raids with all those red and blue telegraphs stacking around the field.   

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,539Member Uncommon

    The problem I have with telegraphs is that I end up looking at ground and watch telegraph patterns - I don't even notice the NPCs ore their animations after a while.

    its like this 3D virtual world and all these awesome NPCs get reduced to a flat 2D game where you have to avoid the ground pattern.

    You could replace all mobs with boxes and flatten the world, I probably wouldn't notice as all I am focusing on is the damn telegraph patterns.

    Maybe its just me, but telegraphs take a lot away from actually looking at the combat animations and immersion.

     

  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,767Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano

    The problem I have with telegraphs is that I end up looking at ground and watch telegraph patterns - I don't even notice the NPCs ore their animations after a while.

    its like this 3D virtual world and all these awesome NPCs get reduced to a flat 2D game where you have to avoid the ground pattern.

    You could replace all mobs with boxes and flatten the world, I probably wouldn't notice as all I am focusing on is the damn telegraph patterns.

    Maybe its just me, but telegraphs take a lot away from actually looking at the combat animations and immersion.

     

    You do have a point, the problem with visual clues is that while they work great in single player games they only work in MMO's when they are very apparent because of how people stack up around the mob blocking your camera.

    I can only think of three ways a mob can telegraph whats it about to do to players.

    Big text messages which I think most people agree is less than ideal.

    Casting animations which while probably the best solution only work for really large mobs with very visible animations.

    Ground telegraphs, which while not as ideal as casting animations I think is the best compromise for a multi player game.

    I have played MMO's with all three and I do believe that ground telegraphs despite there tendency to make you focus on the ground are the best system overall.  

    As I said before however I do worry about telegraph overload with blue buffs and red attacks on larger encounters but I guess we will see how that plays out.

  • MargulisMargulis Glendale, AZPosts: 1,614Member
    Originally posted by Zapzap
    Originally posted by Margulis
    Originally posted by Zapzap

    The attraction for many in Wildstar is that it promises to bring back difficulty and challenge.  In a time where one can play every MMO while asleep and not worry Wildstar promises to be different.  CEO Gaffney said there are enough easy MMOs out there if you want one you can go play it.  He goes on to say they are making this game for veteran MMO players who want some of the challenge from older games.

    Yes if you want to be technical what Wildstar and every MMO offers features that have been done before.  But what Wildstar is offering in terms of challenge and difficulty is not being done now.  Will it live up to those promises or we will we end up with another shallow game made for modern day adhd gamehoppers?  I guess we will see.

    Have you watched the raw gameplay footage from E3??  I haven't seen that much hand holding in an mmo to date - there are even huge arrows popping up on screen to guide you to your next quest objective, plus all the other general hand holding features that have become the norm.

    Now maybe dungeons and raids will indeed be challenging, or certain battle elements.  But I'll tell ya, from watching that footage it sure didn't look like difficulty and challenge in your face.

    What quest directed game does not have quest tracking?  Your kicking a dead horse here to expect no quest tracking.

    There's a difference between "quest tracking" and a giant arrow flashing above your toon pointing you in the direction to go.  Not an arrow on your mini-map mind you, but big, bold and smack dab in the middle of your screen above your toon screaming "don't think at all just follow me, that's all you have to do just follow me."

    Your also off point here quest tracking has nothing to do with difficulty and is simply a quality of life issue. 

    If you watch the released videos also notice how often these players die from poor play and not paying attention.  Quite a large amount. And at an extremely low level.  While it would be nice to see videos with better more attentive players there appears to be a large penalty included for poor play which is something we have not seen in the modern era of snoozefest easy games.  Now I will agree that Carbines claims  of difficulty and challenge should be approached with skepticism.  Until we play and see it we should always doubt it.  But the promise of difficulty and challenge is the big selling point for many people and what separates this game from the easy mode games of the last 5+ years.

    While I appreciate your attempt to convince me that there is no more hand holding in this game than any other mmo and it is indeed full of challenge, I regret to inform you I'm not a bit convinced.  I believe them when I hear their dungeons and raids will be very hard, but as far as overworld content - anytime there is that much handholding going on it's hard for me to take the term "difficult" seriously.

  • MargulisMargulis Glendale, AZPosts: 1,614Member
    Originally posted by Volkmar
    Originally posted by Margulis
    Originally posted by Zapzap

    The attraction for many in Wildstar is that it promises to bring back difficulty and challenge.  In a time where one can play every MMO while asleep and not worry Wildstar promises to be different.  CEO Gaffney said there are enough easy MMOs out there if you want one you can go play it.  He goes on to say they are making this game for veteran MMO players who want some of the challenge from older games.

    Yes if you want to be technical what Wildstar and every MMO offers features that have been done before.  But what Wildstar is offering in terms of challenge and difficulty is not being done now.  Will it live up to those promises or we will we end up with another shallow game made for modern day adhd gamehoppers?  I guess we will see.

    Have you watched the raw gameplay footage from E3??  I haven't seen that much hand holding in an mmo to date - there are even huge arrows popping up on screen to guide you to your next quest objective, plus all the other general hand holding features that have become the norm.

    Now maybe dungeons and raids will indeed be challenging, or certain battle elements.  But I'll tell ya, from watching that footage it sure didn't look like difficulty and challenge in your face.

    I did. I noticed how often they KEPT DYING!

    When was the last time you saw level 6 characters (out of.... 50? 60?) dying so often because they are learning to play? Granted, I heard the controls were badly implement in E3, maybe they had a slow mouse... also had only limited time to play etc

    the leaked ESO beta video from a month or two ago actually.  And you know what everyone said?  He died that much because he didn't know what he was doing, not because the game is insanely hard.  Probably the exact same case with this.

    Would be interesting to compare raw Footage to... say, SWTOR and compare how often those guys were dying in comparison to Wildstar. My guess is you will find Wildstar's kept them dying more often.

    Also World Boss! in a level 6 area! Yeeeee! Open PVP area! at level 20! Yeeee! enemies that STUN and ROOT you! at level 6! Yeeeee! Housing integrated in the game from get go! Yeeeeee!

    Honestly, I said it before, but the arrows only appears when you click on a quest and stay on screen for only a few seconds. Not so intrusive as other systems we have seen like giant shaft of light from the sky or flashing objectives or shiny paths created in front of you.

    Did not see any arrows or help in the jumping puzzles, did you? What other hand holding did you see beside the "!" on top of quest givers?

    I think you need to watch that video again.  Every time a quest updates that involves you moving to another area a giant arrow pops up over your head (not on your minimap) and points you in the right direction.

  • VolkmarVolkmar EspooPosts: 2,497Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Margulis
    Originally posted by Volkmar
    Originally posted by Margulis
    Originally posted by Zapzap

    The attraction for many in Wildstar is that it promises to bring back difficulty and challenge.  In a time where one can play every MMO while asleep and not worry Wildstar promises to be different.  CEO Gaffney said there are enough easy MMOs out there if you want one you can go play it.  He goes on to say they are making this game for veteran MMO players who want some of the challenge from older games.

    Yes if you want to be technical what Wildstar and every MMO offers features that have been done before.  But what Wildstar is offering in terms of challenge and difficulty is not being done now.  Will it live up to those promises or we will we end up with another shallow game made for modern day adhd gamehoppers?  I guess we will see.

    Have you watched the raw gameplay footage from E3??  I haven't seen that much hand holding in an mmo to date - there are even huge arrows popping up on screen to guide you to your next quest objective, plus all the other general hand holding features that have become the norm.

    Now maybe dungeons and raids will indeed be challenging, or certain battle elements.  But I'll tell ya, from watching that footage it sure didn't look like difficulty and challenge in your face.

    Did not see any arrows or help in the jumping puzzles, did you? What other hand holding did you see beside the "!" on top of quest givers?

    I think you need to watch that video again.  Every time a quest updates that involves you moving to another area a giant arrow pops up over your head (not on your minimap) and points you in the right direction.

    I meant beside the arrow that remain a few seconds and we have seen such things before. I'm not debating the arrow, I wanted to know what ELSE did you consider hand-holding.

    "If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"



  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,552Member Uncommon
    They use telegraphs because its cheaper and easier to make than giving mobs quality animations.  Like how a boxer can anticipate his opponents next attack through his body language and not a giant red circle on the ground.
  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,556Member Uncommon
    This is a linear quest hub game.  I'm not sure any type of combat can save that.  Although the combat does look incredibly dull.  If you are tired of the no freedom themepark design...I wouldn't expect much out of this game.
  • LatronusLatronus Lexington Park, MDPosts: 692Member
    Originally posted by udon
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Telegraph overdrive.

    Everything telegraphs - even trash mobs. Some may like this, I personally can't stand telegraphs.

    When the majority of the combat mechanics is reduced to telegraphs, its just unnecessary.

    Having them on some boss fights, OK... but all the time?

     

    If you want to base a games difficultly around a mechanic than you need to introduce that mechanic to players early and get them use to it over time not dump it on them for the first time in a boss fight.

    Telegraphs don't bother me much and i really like the idea of blue friendly telegraphs for things like heals and buffs because it will add a lot to the dynamics of fights.  It will really force people to pay attention to not only their own DPS parse but also what everyone around them is doing as well.

    I am curious how they are going to manage 40 people raids with all those red and blue telegraphs stacking around the field.   

    Telegraphs are hand holding for casual and lazy gamers that don't want to have to learn how to recognize that they are about to get nailed.  It only takes a few brain cells to recognize that if the mob takes his weapon and brings it back over his head that he is about to swing it at you.  These days lazy gamers want to be told way ahead of time that they are about to be attacked.  Loose the telegraph all together and watch the crybabies rage quit in droves.

    image
  • atticusbcatticusbc Posts: 1,069Member Uncommon
    the overabundance of telegraphs has me pretty well turned off as well. which sucks because the rest of the game looks great. in gw2 at least the telegraphs were reserved for big aoe attacks, but it looks like just about everything has them in ws. hopefully we can turn them off in the options. if we can then i'm back on board.
  • jimprounerjimprouner Hooters, VTPosts: 142Member
    Originally posted by Imperator101
    Judging from the videos, wildstar looks the same as any other MMO as there is a skill bar and you press which attack/power you want to use. The only difference is there is no point and click on the enemies and you just go up and attack them. Am I right about this? This is how the gameplay is? Seems similar to Guild Wars 2 then since GW2 did not have any point and click gameplay and you just went up to the enemy and attacked them without highlighting them first.

    It has.  Really.

    So what game has LAS and double jump and Telegraph aiming combat and dashes?  I will be waiting...  Crickets.

     

    Originally posted by atticusbc
    the overabundance of telegraphs has me pretty well turned off as well. which sucks because the rest of the game looks great. in gw2 at least the telegraphs were reserved for big aoe attacks, but it looks like just about everything has them in ws. hopefully we can turn them off in the options. if we can then i'm back on board.

    You could probably get an addon to do it, but that would be incredibly stupid, because you would die.  As we have seen in low level gameplay footage, you can't even eat telegraphs from low level mobs without taking serious damage.  You dodge or you die.

    That is why the telegraphs are so common.  They are there to teach you the game from the start, and they get far more complex over time.  They give ample warning, so they can be absolutely brutal.

    It also eliminates the need for things like Deadly Boss Mods in WoW.

  • dwarflordkingdwarflordking long beach, CAPosts: 265Member
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Telegraph overdrive.

    Everything telegraphs - even trash mobs. Some may like this, I personally can't stand telegraphs.

    When the majority of the combat mechanics is reduced to telegraphs, its just unnecessary.

    Having them on some boss fights, OK... but all the time?

     

    i agree.. i hate this too... staring at the ground constantly for red attack patterns.. when we should just be looking at the monsters.. its better to just get hit and learn from experience rather then just getting out of the way of the red spots... pretty dumb

  • HorrorScopeHorrorScope Norcal, CAPosts: 612Member

    The attraction for many in Wildstar is that it promises to bring back difficulty and challenge.

    But to me telegraphs are the opposite of said statement, it's a carebear move. That said, Neverwinter does tele's a lot, they just put in a ton of non-stop add's during boss fights to make their game hard. I dunno anymore. There needs to be a fresh take on this entire genre. Will this be it? I hope. But I doubt it.

  • MidBossMidBoss Blank, WIPosts: 93Member

    Tch. People are getting hung up on the idea that everything is a blue or red circle.

    There are cone attacks, line attacks,  area attacks,  and everything in between.

    if you look at just your feet, you will die.

    No other game so far is showing such a strong focus on making movement and positioning so important and fun. I look forward to seeing what they can do.

    Would I enjoy different system besides telegraphs? Maybe, but since no one has shown us a better alternative yet I'll take highly polished version of what we have.

    Dismissing the game because you avoid standing in the "fire"  like every other game is getting silly.

    (Someone mentioned GW2 not being "as bad"...The last boss they released was just an extended 15min of not standing in constantly spammed red circles, clearly you are deluding yourself)

  • jimprounerjimprouner Hooters, VTPosts: 142Member
    Originally posted by dwarflordking
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Telegraph overdrive.

    Everything telegraphs - even trash mobs. Some may like this, I personally can't stand telegraphs.

    When the majority of the combat mechanics is reduced to telegraphs, its just unnecessary.

    Having them on some boss fights, OK... but all the time?

     

    i agree.. i hate this too... staring at the ground constantly for red attack patterns.. when we should just be looking at the monsters.. its better to just get hit and learn from experience rather then just getting out of the way of the red spots... pretty dumb

    Lol, nothing you said made any sense.

     

    Originally posted by HorrorScope

    The attraction for many in Wildstar is that it promises to bring back difficulty and challenge.

    But to me telegraphs are the opposite of said statement, it's a carebear move. That said, Neverwinter does tele's a lot, they just put in a ton of non-stop add's during boss fights to make their game hard. I dunno anymore. There needs to be a fresh take on this entire genre. Will this be it? I hope. But I doubt it.

    Nonsense.  WoW raiding is dependent on the DBM, so in essence you have telegraphs in WoW too.   Just a clunky version that uses outside addons to tell you when they are happening.

    That addon won't exist in WS.

     

    Look at this video if you think telegraphs are easy.  Then keep in mind that is a mid level dungeon, and the telegraphs continue to get harder as you progress through the game.  That dungeon would be easy mode compared to raiding.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko4cX0majzg&feature=youtu.be&t=17m40s

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