Having separate servers with different rulesets seems the way to go. Its also what SOE has done in their other MMOs, so theres no reason to think they wouldnt do the same in this one.
Funny thing about that is, if you play EQ2 or other MMOs, the PVP servers are always ghost towns, and players whine on forums about how noone plays on those servers. Still it cant hurt to offer the option, and let the players chose to play where they want.
What I find interesting is some of the comments for PvE comment on having PvP servers as a reasonable solution. Can those calling for PvP say the same?
Do you care if there are seperate PvE servers or do you think everyone should be required to PvP if playing EQN?
I think it should be part of the game full stop... putting resources into making different rule sets is a waste of time and that time could be put into further development of the game..
Saying that i would not be opposed to the idea if thats the route they wanted to go.
Money more than time and would easily made up by the people that would play if it wasn't non-consentual. The last numbers I seen globally was that about 32% of MMO players prefer PvP in NA. Not that you couldn't fund a game like EQN if it was full PvP on all servers but why would you? It worked great for CCP because of the nitche they were already in. If you were the president of a company would you responsibly do it?
SoE may well make a PvP on EQN for all but it would be foolish.
For one, I would love to see those statistics on PVP vs PVE. Right now Call of Duty is the most played multiplayer game.
It worked great for CCP because they tread ground most developers weren't treading. EVE at over 500k players is not niche when they are the second highest MMORPG played in the west behind World of Warcraft which is an outlier in the industry.
Everquest got to a maximum 500k players before it dramatically dropped off. I guarantee SOE wants to expand their company which is why we saw a sequel to Planetside and why they scrapped a perfectly good themepark EQNext to replace it with a sandbox. Catering to people who already play their games is absolutely no way to expand a business. Those people are not guaranteed to actually migrate to the new game and those that do would just result in them being transferred from one game to another game. That would mean zero net gain.
To begin with I am not saying EvE is nitche as a slight but that it owns an original place in the market. Not only that it started as an unknown title and grew to where it is now which is remarkable. It's not the same as the EverQuest brand however and doesn't have the same market potential. Your comparison of numbers between EQ and EvE are incompatable since at the time EQ was going strong the player base for MMOs period was vastly smaller. The only equivilence would be to compare the % players playing the game at it's peak with the total players in the MMO market at the time. Not an easy process .
Multiplayer =/= MMO. If you want to bring in outside games for comparison how does CoD stack up to Second Life in terms of players? Probably best to keep it to MMOs.
I agree that as a company it's good to branch out and I have no doubt EQN will do just that. I think EQN will have features and gameplay that is not seen in any other SoE title (well, except some aspects of EQ2) or any title period. That has nothing to do with PvP though which is my entire point. No matter how much you, I or anyone else likes PvP it's not preferred by the majority of players and SoE will have a special enough product without it being mandatory.
Honestly this happens with any new game regarding PvP so it should be expected. I can't wait until August so we have some real information.
Originally posted by Eigetsu Indeed carebears should have their corner in game like crafting, housing, instanced raids. But I really liked PvP servers in EQ2 and i don't want PvE only game.
That would be a themepark.
What? OMG does "themepark" and "sandbox" mean anything anymore?
I visit a themepark for a day of fun. In a sandbox i start building a castle.
I clicked yes because I will most likely atleast try, but once it becomes a gank fest of high levels killing lowbies or I get constantly disturbed while trying to do my PvE stuff. Then, I will quit.
And, looking at history, that will not take very long...
Simple enough. With all the speculation swirling about EQN, figured we would get an idea of MMORPG members feelings on the matter.
Why would it bother me if it's on another server, if you think Smed is going to have the same server rules for every server then you are delusional.
I play Age Of Wushu, now Age Of Wulin beta for my pvp kicks.
EQ has a vast fanbase and most are avid PVE players, you really think that Smed will force PVP onto them lol. Yes they will want to attract other fans but don't think they are going to turn EQ into PVP love in.
Originally posted by Waterlily of course not, nor will any EQ fans
So you speak for all of us former EQ players?
Nope he can't speak for them all but if you did a world wide poll of EQ players i would bet that most would agree. Like it or not the EQ fanbase is mostly made up of PVE players. Yeah, yeah i know, Smed wants to attract other fans blah blah, thing is he wont want to lose his loyal fans either.
Anyway, the game will more than lightly have different sever rule sets.
Oh and about that comment of Smed hinting at harsher rule set servers, whether it was before the two project were scratch is really irrelevant, it doesn't actually effect making the game, i would bet he hasn't changed that idea irrelevant of remaking parts of the game.
Wait till fanfare and see what happens if Smed comes out with an open world ffa forced PVP game lol, your delusional if you think that's going to happen.
Don't get me wrong, EQ has always had some form of PVP and they have said they want a robust PVP system but don't taske that as a sign that all of a sudden EQ is going to turn into a Darkfall In Norrath.
Originally posted by Waterlily of course not, nor will any EQ fans
So you speak for all of us former EQ players?
Nope he can't speak for them all but if you did a world wide poll of EQ players i would bet that most would agree. Like it or not the EQ fanbase is mostly made up of PVE players. Yeah, yeah i know, Smed wants to attract other fans blah blah, thing is he wont want to lose his loyal fans either.
Anyway, the game will more than lightly have different sever rule sets.
Oh and about that comment of Smed hinting at harsher rule set servers, whether it was before the two project were scratch is really irrelevant, it doesn't actually effect making the game, i would bet he hasn't changed that idea irrelevant of remaking parts of the game.
Wait till fanfare and see what happens if Smed comes out with an open world ffa forced PVP game lol, your delusional if you think that's going to happen.
Don't get me wrong, EQ has always had some form of PVP and they have said they want a robust PVP system but don't taske that as a sign that all of a sudden EQ is going to turn into a Darkfall In Norrath.
Neither your nor I can determine where the vast majority of former EQ players have gone. I've met EQ players in games like Shadowbane, and I know some that favored WvW in Guild Wars 2. So it is by assumption that you determine they are because you are. Let's for a minute assume you are right, though. This would also mean that they are heavily focused on end game themepark item progression which Smedley has specifically mentioned that EQNext doesn't have. There goes any interest those phantasmal majority would ever have in EQNext to begin with.
I would say it is far more likely there won't be individual servers. When Smedley claims it is the largest sandbox ever created, if he literally means world size, he couldn't possibly have more than one server as the game would be completely vacant. Their motive of having multiple servers with different rulesets was to literally try to please as many former EQ and EQ2 fans as possible, but all that went out the window when they scrapped it and decided they wanted to do something completely different than those games. Smedley had even said their goal is not to bring in EQ1 and EQ2 players to EQNext last SOE Live, though he would be happy if they did.
If something was good in EQ it was for sure not pvp and it will never be. They should focus on pve and questing, thit is what guys from that team can do well. Leave pvp to teams with experience in that field
"Never change a known game/IP in the hopes that you will miraculously attract a whole new group of fans..."
If there's ONE game developer that knows that perfectly well, it would be SOE. They have even publicly admitted (a few years after the event) that trying to do that with SWG was a really big mistake.
Why would SOE want to repeat that mistake with EQ ?
Are they really prepared to lose the PVE customers because they hope they might replace them all with PVP'ers ?
Originally posted by Ironman2000 Plenty of things in the world that will be trying to kill me, why do I want to play for FUN in a world where some 15 year old a-hole is waiting to just keep ganking me because i'm a lower level then him? Would not be fun at all, and i'd never go back, that is even if I downloaded it if it were open world pvp where it could be a total gankfest.
No one wants a lawless world full of gank squads. That's boring.
Put proper systems in place i.g. Wushu, and you nightmare scenario will not occur, and ganking will not be an issue.
Harsh penalty for senseless murder, reward for killing with purpose. That takes systems.
Right, but this is SoE, and they're putting a lot into stuff like advanced AI and environment, total sandbox system, etc. So chances are they wouldn't have anything like that in place. Not to mention manage expectations, because i'm sure we all remember launch of EQ II where they said, "We're sorry but the equipment system we had planned isn't what you're going to get, we had to dumb it down so now ever piece of armor is going to be a recolor of other armors, oh and frogloks are in the game, but you have to find em (just kidding, they're not in the game but we don't want you guys to know that until they're finished and we put em in there). If they do something like a full blown PVP, they need to keep those servers separate from the PVE, PVE-RP servers, like in the past 2 versions of the game, in my humble opinion.
Originally posted by Waterlily of course not, nor will any EQ fans
So you speak for all of us former EQ players?
Nope he can't speak for them all but if you did a world wide poll of EQ players i would bet that most would agree. Like it or not the EQ fanbase is mostly made up of PVE players. Yeah, yeah i know, Smed wants to attract other fans blah blah, thing is he wont want to lose his loyal fans either.
Anyway, the game will more than lightly have different sever rule sets.
Oh and about that comment of Smed hinting at harsher rule set servers, whether it was before the two project were scratch is really irrelevant, it doesn't actually effect making the game, i would bet he hasn't changed that idea irrelevant of remaking parts of the game.
Wait till fanfare and see what happens if Smed comes out with an open world ffa forced PVP game lol, your delusional if you think that's going to happen.
Don't get me wrong, EQ has always had some form of PVP and they have said they want a robust PVP system but don't taske that as a sign that all of a sudden EQ is going to turn into a Darkfall In Norrath.
Neither your nor I can determine where the vast majority of former EQ players have gone. I've met EQ players in games like Shadowbane, and I know some that favored WvW in Guild Wars 2. So it is by assumption that you determine they are because you are. Let's for a minute assume you are right, though. This would also mean that they are heavily focused on end game themepark item progression which Smedley has specifically mentioned that EQNext doesn't have. There goes any interest those phantasmal majority would ever have in EQNext to begin with.
I would say it is far more likely there won't be individual servers. When Smedley claims it is the largest sandbox ever created, if he literally means world size, he couldn't possibly have more than one server as the game would be completely vacant.
Their motive of having multiple servers with different rulesets was to literally try to please as many former EQ and EQ2 fans as possible, but all that went out the window when they scrapped it and decided they wanted to do something completely different than those games.
The above is just you speculation lol, you have no quote saying that they scrapped multiple servers.
Smedley had even said their goal is not to bring in EQ1 and EQ2 players to EQNext last SOE Live, though he would be happy if they did.
I would say that it's far more lightly that their are different servers and that EQN is not a true sandbox mmo and more of a hybrid sandpark.
I'll say it again, anyone who takes Smed's sandbox as literal is going to be in for a let down.
I'm going to enjoy coming back to you after fanfare lol.
Originally posted by Waterlily of course not, nor will any EQ fans
So you speak for all of us former EQ players?
Nope he can't speak for them all but if you did a world wide poll of EQ players i would bet that most would agree. Like it or not the EQ fanbase is mostly made up of PVE players. Yeah, yeah i know, Smed wants to attract other fans blah blah, thing is he wont want to lose his loyal fans either.
Anyway, the game will more than lightly have different sever rule sets.
Oh and about that comment of Smed hinting at harsher rule set servers, whether it was before the two project were scratch is really irrelevant, it doesn't actually effect making the game, i would bet he hasn't changed that idea irrelevant of remaking parts of the game.
Wait till fanfare and see what happens if Smed comes out with an open world ffa forced PVP game lol, your delusional if you think that's going to happen.
Don't get me wrong, EQ has always had some form of PVP and they have said they want a robust PVP system but don't taske that as a sign that all of a sudden EQ is going to turn into a Darkfall In Norrath.
Neither your nor I can determine where the vast majority of former EQ players have gone. I've met EQ players in games like Shadowbane, and I know some that favored WvW in Guild Wars 2. So it is by assumption that you determine they are because you are. Let's for a minute assume you are right, though. This would also mean that they are heavily focused on end game themepark item progression which Smedley has specifically mentioned that EQNext doesn't have. There goes any interest those phantasmal majority would ever have in EQNext to begin with.
I would say it is far more likely there won't be individual servers. When Smedley claims it is the largest sandbox ever created, if he literally means world size, he couldn't possibly have more than one server as the game would be completely vacant. Their motive of having multiple servers with different rulesets was to literally try to please as many former EQ and EQ2 fans as possible, but all that went out the window when they scrapped it and decided they wanted to do something completely different than those games. Smedley had even said their goal is not to bring in EQ1 and EQ2 players to EQNext last SOE Live, though he would be happy if they did.
There will be servers for several types of game play, pve pvp rp etc, if you want to go pvp then join a pvp server.
What usually happens though, is that the populated servers are the PVE ones, and the PVP players complain because they can't PVP on the most popular servers.
As an EQ player of old, i can safely say that all the guilds i was involved in, the only focus they had was guild raids. Just don't confuse them with WoW raids as in EQ the groups were much much larger and more organised.
gd pvp trolls if its a single world mega server they could have pvp "ShardS' you want to pvp phase on over to the pvp shard but i hope its not a single server they suck from my experience
When PoP brought in 72man raids fun times indeed pre that was bring what you need and build DPS group, to think WoW went from 40 -> 25 and now most of those 25 collapse into 10 man.
There will most likely be a servers with different rulesets. Some will probably have safe zones, some may not. There may be the possibility of item loot on one, but not likely on all of them.
A 50:50 split would tend to indicate the wisdom of server types.
:shrug:
Isn't that how server types came to be in the first place?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I'm sitting here reading these arguments against pvp, gank this, gank that. Have you played Wushu?! Those arguments are tired, old, and have no barring on today's mmorpgs.
A virtual FFA world can and was created free of gank squads, with no safe zones. I expect nothing less from the people at sony.
Reward pvp with a purpose, punish murder. No one wants a lawless world where safe zones are needed.
I am 99% sure my understanding of non-consensual is different than most players.
If a player attacks me and I dont want to fight back ( i know I cant win for example), I simply do not fight back.
I allow the attacking player a free PK and whatever punishment that comes with killing an unflagged player. Granting the game has a flagging system, like Lineage 2 for example.
I'm sitting here reading these arguments against pvp, gank this, gank that. Have you played Wushu?! Those arguments are tired, old, and have no barring on today's mmorpgs.
A virtual FFA world can and was created free of gank squads, with no safe zones. I expect nothing less from the people at sony.
Reward pvp with a purpose, punish murder. No one wants a lawless world where safe zones are needed.
Comments
Having separate servers with different rulesets seems the way to go. Its also what SOE has done in their other MMOs, so theres no reason to think they wouldnt do the same in this one.
Funny thing about that is, if you play EQ2 or other MMOs, the PVP servers are always ghost towns, and players whine on forums about how noone plays on those servers. Still it cant hurt to offer the option, and let the players chose to play where they want.
To begin with I am not saying EvE is nitche as a slight but that it owns an original place in the market. Not only that it started as an unknown title and grew to where it is now which is remarkable. It's not the same as the EverQuest brand however and doesn't have the same market potential. Your comparison of numbers between EQ and EvE are incompatable since at the time EQ was going strong the player base for MMOs period was vastly smaller. The only equivilence would be to compare the % players playing the game at it's peak with the total players in the MMO market at the time. Not an easy process
.
Multiplayer =/= MMO. If you want to bring in outside games for comparison how does CoD stack up to Second Life in terms of players? Probably best to keep it to MMOs.
I agree that as a company it's good to branch out and I have no doubt EQN will do just that. I think EQN will have features and gameplay that is not seen in any other SoE title (well, except some aspects of EQ2) or any title period. That has nothing to do with PvP though which is my entire point. No matter how much you, I or anyone else likes PvP it's not preferred by the majority of players and SoE will have a special enough product without it being mandatory.
Honestly this happens with any new game regarding PvP so it should be expected. I can't wait until August so we have some real information.
What? OMG does "themepark" and "sandbox" mean anything anymore?
I visit a themepark for a day of fun. In a sandbox i start building a castle.
I clicked yes because I will most likely atleast try, but once it becomes a gank fest of high levels killing lowbies or I get constantly disturbed while trying to do my PvE stuff. Then, I will quit.
And, looking at history, that will not take very long...
Why would it bother me if it's on another server, if you think Smed is going to have the same server rules for every server then you are delusional.
I play Age Of Wushu, now Age Of Wulin beta for my pvp kicks.
EQ has a vast fanbase and most are avid PVE players, you really think that Smed will force PVP onto them lol. Yes they will want to attract other fans but don't think they are going to turn EQ into PVP love in.
The poll is no a very well thought out poll.
>>SMITE<<
>>Strife: best ever MOBA<<
>>Rift: FREE Ally of the Ascended Pack<<
Nope he can't speak for them all but if you did a world wide poll of EQ players i would bet that most would agree. Like it or not the EQ fanbase is mostly made up of PVE players. Yeah, yeah i know, Smed wants to attract other fans blah blah, thing is he wont want to lose his loyal fans either.
Anyway, the game will more than lightly have different sever rule sets.
Oh and about that comment of Smed hinting at harsher rule set servers, whether it was before the two project were scratch is really irrelevant, it doesn't actually effect making the game, i would bet he hasn't changed that idea irrelevant of remaking parts of the game.
Wait till fanfare and see what happens if Smed comes out with an open world ffa forced PVP game lol, your delusional if you think that's going to happen.
Don't get me wrong, EQ has always had some form of PVP and they have said they want a robust PVP system but don't taske that as a sign that all of a sudden EQ is going to turn into a Darkfall In Norrath.
Neither your nor I can determine where the vast majority of former EQ players have gone. I've met EQ players in games like Shadowbane, and I know some that favored WvW in Guild Wars 2. So it is by assumption that you determine they are because you are. Let's for a minute assume you are right, though. This would also mean that they are heavily focused on end game themepark item progression which Smedley has specifically mentioned that EQNext doesn't have. There goes any interest those phantasmal majority would ever have in EQNext to begin with.
I would say it is far more likely there won't be individual servers. When Smedley claims it is the largest sandbox ever created, if he literally means world size, he couldn't possibly have more than one server as the game would be completely vacant. Their motive of having multiple servers with different rulesets was to literally try to please as many former EQ and EQ2 fans as possible, but all that went out the window when they scrapped it and decided they wanted to do something completely different than those games. Smedley had even said their goal is not to bring in EQ1 and EQ2 players to EQNext last SOE Live, though he would be happy if they did.
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
"Never change a known game/IP in the hopes that you will miraculously attract a whole new group of fans..."
If there's ONE game developer that knows that perfectly well, it would be SOE. They have even publicly admitted (a few years after the event) that trying to do that with SWG was a really big mistake.
Why would SOE want to repeat that mistake with EQ ?
Are they really prepared to lose the PVE customers because they hope they might replace them all with PVP'ers ?
Right, but this is SoE, and they're putting a lot into stuff like advanced AI and environment, total sandbox system, etc. So chances are they wouldn't have anything like that in place. Not to mention manage expectations, because i'm sure we all remember launch of EQ II where they said, "We're sorry but the equipment system we had planned isn't what you're going to get, we had to dumb it down so now ever piece of armor is going to be a recolor of other armors, oh and frogloks are in the game, but you have to find em (just kidding, they're not in the game but we don't want you guys to know that until they're finished and we put em in there). If they do something like a full blown PVP, they need to keep those servers separate from the PVE, PVE-RP servers, like in the past 2 versions of the game, in my humble opinion.
I would say that it's far more lightly that their are different servers and that EQN is not a true sandbox mmo and more of a hybrid sandpark.
I'll say it again, anyone who takes Smed's sandbox as literal is going to be in for a let down.
I'm going to enjoy coming back to you after fanfare lol.
There will be servers for several types of game play, pve pvp rp etc, if you want to go pvp then join a pvp server.
What usually happens though, is that the populated servers are the PVE ones, and the PVP players complain because they can't PVP on the most popular servers.
As an EQ player of old, i can safely say that all the guilds i was involved in, the only focus they had was guild raids. Just don't confuse them with WoW raids as in EQ the groups were much much larger and more organised.
I voted no.
I am addicted to faction vs faction fighting
but
I want to fight when I want to fight and in the context of being part of a faction, not ffa pvp.
A 50:50 split would tend to indicate the wisdom of server types.
:shrug:
Isn't that how server types came to be in the first place?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I'm sitting here reading these arguments against pvp, gank this, gank that. Have you played Wushu?! Those arguments are tired, old, and have no barring on today's mmorpgs.
A virtual FFA world can and was created free of gank squads, with no safe zones. I expect nothing less from the people at sony.
Reward pvp with a purpose, punish murder. No one wants a lawless world where safe zones are needed.
I am 99% sure my understanding of non-consensual is different than most players.
If a player attacks me and I dont want to fight back ( i know I cant win for example), I simply do not fight back.
I allow the attacking player a free PK and whatever punishment that comes with killing an unflagged player. Granting the game has a flagging system, like Lineage 2 for example.
very true
/clap
Because Wushu was made by a foreign developer placed in a foreign world, hosted by a overwhelmed 10 man USA team.
If Wushu was made and hosted by Blizzard and set in a fantasy world, we may not be talking about EQN..
The only purpose of bringing Wushu into this is to show that a FFA world pvp, doesn't not mean gank squads and safe zones.