Originally posted by bcbully I won't play if its not.
Exactly ^this
If EQN is doing the same concept like every other WoWclone splitting into PVP/PVE , I can play one of the 999 other consensual snoozefest MMOs catering to "everyone" instead.
You realise that in the real world you go around killing people you get caught and punished for your crimes usually .
What if in EQN there is a criminal justice system that allows people to put bounties on your head and the crime penalty might actually make it so you QQ when you get caught and jailed for the rest of your characters natural life .
Originally posted by Ironman2000 Plenty of things in the world that will be trying to kill me, why do I want to play for FUN in a world where some 15 year old a-hole is waiting to just keep ganking me because i'm a lower level then him? Would not be fun at all, and i'd never go back, that is even if I downloaded it if it were open world pvp where it could be a total gankfest.
No one wants a lawless world full of gank squads. That's boring.
Put proper systems in place i.g. Wushu, and you nightmare scenario will not occur, and ganking will not be an issue.
Harsh penalty for senseless murder, reward for killing with purpose. That takes systems.
And if that's the case what's the point of having PvP?
PvP is or is not part of the rule set, there's no middle ground. make it rare like in AoW and there's no point in implementing it, make it to lawless and you breed the mindset of a type of character that is notorious for destroying communities.
No what needs to happen is either A) Different Rule set servers or remove PvP altogether. Obscure systems that attempt to criminalize the act is not a valid way to design a game.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Originally posted by bcbully I won't play if its not.
Exactly ^this
If EQN is doing the same concept like every other WoWclone splitting into PVP/PVE , I can play one of the 999 other consensual snoozefest MMOs catering to "everyone" instead.
Give us PVALL REALISM
That WoW, they came up with everything, different servers for different game play?! WoW.
Originally posted by Ironman2000 Plenty of things in the world that will be trying to kill me, why do I want to play for FUN in a world where some 15 year old a-hole is waiting to just keep ganking me because i'm a lower level then him? Would not be fun at all, and i'd never go back, that is even if I downloaded it if it were open world pvp where it could be a total gankfest.
No one wants a lawless world full of gank squads. That's boring.
Put proper systems in place i.g. Wushu, and you nightmare scenario will not occur, and ganking will not be an issue.
Harsh penalty for senseless murder, reward for killing with purpose. That takes systems.
And if that's the case what's the point of having PvP?
PvP is or is not part of the rule set, there's no middle ground. make it rare like in AoW and there's no point in implementing it, make it to lawless and you breed the mindset of a type of character that is notorious for destroying communities.
No what needs to happen is either A) Different Rule set servers or remove PvP altogether. Obscure systems that attempt to criminalize the act is not a valid way to design a game.
Having some type of criminal system is in fact a perfect way to control PVP.. have system like this in certain areas of the game is great idea, then also have lawless areas where there are no laws..
As long as the game is built up around a well thought out criminal system then it will work and work very well.. just tacking somthing on top after the game has been finished is what makes similar systems bad.
Originally posted by Ironman2000 Plenty of things in the world that will be trying to kill me, why do I want to play for FUN in a world where some 15 year old a-hole is waiting to just keep ganking me because i'm a lower level then him? Would not be fun at all, and i'd never go back, that is even if I downloaded it if it were open world pvp where it could be a total gankfest.
No one wants a lawless world full of gank squads. That's boring.
Put proper systems in place i.g. Wushu, and you nightmare scenario will not occur, and ganking will not be an issue.
Harsh penalty for senseless murder, reward for killing with purpose. That takes systems.
And if that's the case what's the point of having PvP?
PvP is or is not part of the rule set, there's no middle ground. make it rare like in AoW and there's no point in implementing it, make it to lawless and you breed the mindset of a type of character that is notorious for destroying communities.
No what needs to happen is either A) Different Rule set servers or remove PvP altogether. Obscure systems that attempt to criminalize the act is not a valid way to design a game.
Having some type of criminal system is in fact a perfect way to control PVP.. have system like this in certain areas of the game is great idea, then also have lawless areas where there are no laws..
As long as the game is built up around a well thought out criminal system then it will work and work very well.. just tacking somthing on top after the game has been finished is what makes similar systems bad.
That's why you join a guild and declare war on another guild , then they would be free to kill without any penalties .
You guys don't play many MMO's I guess . Because its been done before .
What I find interesting is some of the comments for PvE comment on having PvP servers as a reasonable solution. Can those calling for PvP say the same?
Do you care if there are seperate PvE servers or do you think everyone should be required to PvP if playing EQN?
Open world non-consensual PvP: For the first few weeks everyone is having a blast, people are fighting everywhere. Duels, small battles, raid vs raid and just pure mayham. Yay.
Then two things happen.
1) The people who tend to lose most fights move on. They can't be bothered with this anymore.
2) New players leave because the "veterans" are so far ahead of them skill-wise and/or equipment-wise that they just don't bother.
This triggers the next phase, the population decline phase.
The remaining population starts making flame threads on the forums, saying things like "Oh you developer-so-and-so, you know nothing about PvP, you are KILLING PvP in your own game! You need to do so-and so instantly if you want to save what's left of your once-upon-a-time great game! But will you listen? Oh, no, you are KILLING it, I say, KILLING it!"
Patch 1.03 comes along, with high focus on PvP, and a lot of the suggested changes are implemented.
In the meantime, a lot of people who used to win a lot of duels have started losing most of them, because there are no newbies, and the bad players have left. So they leave too. The people who stay are the kings on the hill, the best players (and some maschosists who enjoys being ***** in the **** all day.)
The rage on the forum is now spectacular. "Oh you morons!!!! The worst devs EVAR!!!!! They know nothing about PvP. This game was once GREAT, but you RUINED it with your STUPID 1.03 patch, never LISTENING to your players at all, and see now where it has left you!!!"
And there you go. I've seen it happen before. More than ten times. I don't want to see it happen in EQN.
That's why you join a guild and declare war on another guild , then they would be free to kill without any penalties .
You guys don't play many MMO's I guess . Because its been done before .
Have played many mmos.. played darkfall from start to finish as well and that was clearly missing a good criminal system. The system that darkfall had in place was flawed because they did not think it through correctly...
Joining a guild has nothing to do with it.. Like i said if the game is built from the ground up with a criminal system in place then they of course would take into account clan wars. I am not going to turn this into a discussion about the exact rules that could be in place for such a system hell this would end up being a very long post..
Like i said before a well thought out system built into the game from the start would work very well.. half arsed attempts of course do not work well and just fail..
What I find interesting is some of the comments for PvE comment on having PvP servers as a reasonable solution. Can those calling for PvP say the same?
Do you care if there are seperate PvE servers or do you think everyone should be required to PvP if playing EQN?
I think it should be part of the game full stop... putting resources into making different rule sets is a waste of time and that time could be put into further development of the game..
Saying that i would not be opposed to the idea if thats the route they wanted to go.
What I find interesting is some of the comments for PvE comment on having PvP servers as a reasonable solution. Can those calling for PvP say the same?
Do you care if there are seperate PvE servers or do you think everyone should be required to PvP if playing EQN?
I think it should be part of the game full stop... putting resources into making different rule sets is a waste of time and that time could be put into further development of the game..
Saying that i would not be opposed to the idea if thats the route they wanted to go.
Money more than time and would easily made up by the people that would play if it wasn't non-consentual. The last numbers I seen globally was that about 32% of MMO players prefer PvP in NA. Not that you couldn't fund a game like EQN if it was full PvP on all servers but why would you? It worked great for CCP because of the nitche they were already in. If you were the president of a company would you responsibly do it?
SoE may well make a PvP on EQN for all but it would be foolish.
I find pvpers whine more than pvers, alot of it to do with balance and it is a never ending whinefest as buffs/nerfs are dished out with each patch and fotm appear. Goto any game forums where PvP is, and you will see people QQing on the forums... Keep PvP out of EQ:N please and the people who come along with it.
What I find interesting is some of the comments for PvE comment on having PvP servers as a reasonable solution. Can those calling for PvP say the same?
Do you care if there are seperate PvE servers or do you think everyone should be required to PvP if playing EQN?
I think it should be part of the game full stop... putting resources into making different rule sets is a waste of time and that time could be put into further development of the game..
Saying that i would not be opposed to the idea if thats the route they wanted to go.
Money more than time and would easily made up by the people that would play if it wasn't non-consentual. The last numbers I seen globally was that about 32% of MMO players prefer PvP in NA. Not that you couldn't fund a game like EQN if it was full PvP on all servers but why would you? It worked great for CCP because of the nitche they were already in. If you were the president of a company would you responsibly do it?
SoE may well make a PvP on EQN for all but it would be foolish.
If the game is really good then people will play no matter what.. I am not sure if i could call Eve a niche game.. When you look at the history of western MMORPGs the numbers that eve has are actually really good.. WOW is a blip and maybe somthing we wont see again.. MMORPGs before and after it usually settle around the 300k to 500k of people playing.. well if the game is any good.
Still i guess all we can do is wait and see wither way i think i wil lbe checknig this game out.
Originally posted by Nurf3duk I find pvpers whine more than pvers, alot of it to do with balance and it is a never ending whinefest as buffs/nerfs are dished out with each patch and fotm appear. Goto any game forums where PvP is, and you will see people QQing on the forums... Keep PvP out of EQ:N please and the people who come along with it.
What I find interesting is some of the comments for PvE comment on having PvP servers as a reasonable solution. Can those calling for PvP say the same?
Do you care if there are seperate PvE servers or do you think everyone should be required to PvP if playing EQN?
I think it should be part of the game full stop... putting resources into making different rule sets is a waste of time and that time could be put into further development of the game..
Saying that i would not be opposed to the idea if thats the route they wanted to go.
Money more than time and would easily made up by the people that would play if it wasn't non-consentual. The last numbers I seen globally was that about 32% of MMO players prefer PvP in NA. Not that you couldn't fund a game like EQN if it was full PvP on all servers but why would you? It worked great for CCP because of the nitche they were already in. If you were the president of a company would you responsibly do it?
SoE may well make a PvP on EQN for all but it would be foolish.
For one, I would love to see those statistics on PVP vs PVE. Right now Call of Duty is the most played multiplayer game.
It worked great for CCP because they tread ground most developers weren't treading. EVE at over 500k players is not niche when they are the second highest MMORPG played in the west behind World of Warcraft which is an outlier in the industry.
Everquest got to a maximum 500k players before it dramatically dropped off. I guarantee SOE wants to expand their company which is why we saw a sequel to Planetside and why they scrapped a perfectly good themepark EQNext to replace it with a sandbox. Catering to people who already play their games is absolutely no way to expand a business. Those people are not guaranteed to actually migrate to the new game and those that do would just result in them being transferred from one game to another game. That would mean zero net gain.
Originally posted by Nurf3duk Keep PvP out of EQ:N please and the people who come along with it.
..or you could just keep your mitts off EQ:N and play WOW, RIft, Tera, GW2, SWTOR, Final Fantasy, Wildstar or any other themepark with consensual PVP which came out in the last 10 years.
sandbox is not the genre you are looking for, move along
Originally posted by Waterlily of course not, nor will any EQ fans
< Played original EQ. Voted yes.
I don't think a lot of these people realize that the tastes of many of the old EQ crowd has changed and matured. They think because they are stuck in their past, that we all are.
Ohh yes, taking a poll at a place where the MMO rejects who bitch n moan about MMOs that are pretty much MMO rejects makes a PERFECT sample that is representative to the general MMO crowd.
Originally posted by Nurf3duk Keep PvP out of EQ:N please and the people who come along with it.
..or you could just keep your mitts off EQ:N and play WOW, RIft, Tera, GW2, SWTOR, Final Fantasy, Wildstar or any other themepark with consensual PVP which came out in the last 10 years.
sandbox is not the genre you are looking for, move along
.. or you could just keep your mits off EQ:N and play EVE, Mortal Online, DF:UW, or any other openworld PvP.
sandbox does not equate to PvP and EQ has ALWAYS been a high emphasis on PvE. PvP will be incorperated just like how it is in WoW or Rift or SWTOR.... that it will be fully consensual with PvP server options. Like it or not, that will what it'll be as any other form will result in massive drop in potential customers and something they will not do.
Indeed carebears should have their corner in game like crafting, housing, instanced raids. But I really liked PvP servers in EQ2 and i don't want PvE only game.
Originally posted by Eigetsu Indeed carebears should have their corner in game like crafting, housing, instanced raids. But I really liked PvP servers in EQ2 and i don't want PvE only game.
Originally posted by Nurf3duk Keep PvP out of EQ:N please and the people who come along with it.
..or you could just keep your mitts off EQ:N and play WOW, RIft, Tera, GW2, SWTOR, Final Fantasy, Wildstar or any other themepark with consensual PVP which came out in the last 10 years.
sandbox is not the genre you are looking for, move along
Or you could just go play Darkfall:Unholy Wars for your PvP roflstomp, throwing the word sandbox around is useless as it means different things to everyone.
Or do as they did in EQ1 and just have PvP servers
Comments
Exactly ^this
If EQN is doing the same concept like every other WoWclone splitting into PVP/PVE , I can play one of the 999 other consensual snoozefest MMOs catering to "everyone" instead.
Give us PVALL REALISM
I think this is a must for any good sandbox game.. it just brings another level to the game and makes things a lot more interesting.
You realise that in the real world you go around killing people you get caught and punished for your crimes usually .
What if in EQN there is a criminal justice system that allows people to put bounties on your head and the crime penalty might actually make it so you QQ when you get caught and jailed for the rest of your characters natural life .
And if that's the case what's the point of having PvP?
PvP is or is not part of the rule set, there's no middle ground. make it rare like in AoW and there's no point in implementing it, make it to lawless and you breed the mindset of a type of character that is notorious for destroying communities.
No what needs to happen is either A) Different Rule set servers or
remove PvP altogether. Obscure systems that attempt to criminalize the act is not a valid way to design a game.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
That WoW, they came up with everything, different servers for different game play?! WoW.
So you speak for all of us former EQ players?
Having some type of criminal system is in fact a perfect way to control PVP.. have system like this in certain areas of the game is great idea, then also have lawless areas where there are no laws..
As long as the game is built up around a well thought out criminal system then it will work and work very well.. just tacking somthing on top after the game has been finished is what makes similar systems bad.
That's why you join a guild and declare war on another guild , then they would be free to kill without any penalties .
You guys don't play many MMO's I guess . Because its been done before .
What I find interesting is some of the comments for PvE comment on having PvP servers as a reasonable solution. Can those calling for PvP say the same?
Do you care if there are seperate PvE servers or do you think everyone should be required to PvP if playing EQN?
Come on, you know the story by now.
Open world non-consensual PvP: For the first few weeks everyone is having a blast, people are fighting everywhere. Duels, small battles, raid vs raid and just pure mayham. Yay.
Then two things happen.
1) The people who tend to lose most fights move on. They can't be bothered with this anymore.
2) New players leave because the "veterans" are so far ahead of them skill-wise and/or equipment-wise that they just don't bother.
This triggers the next phase, the population decline phase.
The remaining population starts making flame threads on the forums, saying things like "Oh you developer-so-and-so, you know nothing about PvP, you are KILLING PvP in your own game! You need to do so-and so instantly if you want to save what's left of your once-upon-a-time great game! But will you listen? Oh, no, you are KILLING it, I say, KILLING it!"
Patch 1.03 comes along, with high focus on PvP, and a lot of the suggested changes are implemented.
In the meantime, a lot of people who used to win a lot of duels have started losing most of them, because there are no newbies, and the bad players have left. So they leave too. The people who stay are the kings on the hill, the best players (and some maschosists who enjoys being ***** in the **** all day.)
The rage on the forum is now spectacular. "Oh you morons!!!! The worst devs EVAR!!!!! They know nothing about PvP. This game was once GREAT, but you RUINED it with your STUPID 1.03 patch, never LISTENING to your players at all, and see now where it has left you!!!"
And there you go. I've seen it happen before. More than ten times. I don't want to see it happen in EQN.
Have played many mmos.. played darkfall from start to finish as well and that was clearly missing a good criminal system. The system that darkfall had in place was flawed because they did not think it through correctly...
Joining a guild has nothing to do with it.. Like i said if the game is built from the ground up with a criminal system in place then they of course would take into account clan wars. I am not going to turn this into a discussion about the exact rules that could be in place for such a system hell this would end up being a very long post..
Like i said before a well thought out system built into the game from the start would work very well.. half arsed attempts of course do not work well and just fail..
Im a huge fan of EQ and ill prefer to see it with open world PvP
I think it should be part of the game full stop... putting resources into making different rule sets is a waste of time and that time could be put into further development of the game..
Saying that i would not be opposed to the idea if thats the route they wanted to go.
Money more than time and would easily made up by the people that would play if it wasn't non-consentual. The last numbers I seen globally was that about 32% of MMO players prefer PvP in NA. Not that you couldn't fund a game like EQN if it was full PvP on all servers but why would you? It worked great for CCP because of the nitche they were already in. If you were the president of a company would you responsibly do it?
SoE may well make a PvP on EQN for all but it would be foolish.
If the game is really good then people will play no matter what.. I am not sure if i could call Eve a niche game.. When you look at the history of western MMORPGs the numbers that eve has are actually really good.. WOW is a blip and maybe somthing we wont see again.. MMORPGs before and after it usually settle around the 300k to 500k of people playing.. well if the game is any good.
Still i guess all we can do is wait and see
wither way i think i wil lbe checknig this game out.
I think your going to be disappointed.
For one, I would love to see those statistics on PVP vs PVE. Right now Call of Duty is the most played multiplayer game.
It worked great for CCP because they tread ground most developers weren't treading. EVE at over 500k players is not niche when they are the second highest MMORPG played in the west behind World of Warcraft which is an outlier in the industry.
Everquest got to a maximum 500k players before it dramatically dropped off. I guarantee SOE wants to expand their company which is why we saw a sequel to Planetside and why they scrapped a perfectly good themepark EQNext to replace it with a sandbox. Catering to people who already play their games is absolutely no way to expand a business. Those people are not guaranteed to actually migrate to the new game and those that do would just result in them being transferred from one game to another game. That would mean zero net gain.
..or you could just keep your mitts off EQ:N and play WOW, RIft, Tera, GW2, SWTOR, Final Fantasy, Wildstar or any other themepark with consensual PVP which came out in the last 10 years.
sandbox is not the genre you are looking for, move along
< Played original EQ. Voted yes.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
I don't think a lot of these people realize that the tastes of many of the old EQ crowd has changed and matured. They think because they are stuck in their past, that we all are.
Ohh yes, taking a poll at a place where the MMO rejects who bitch n moan about MMOs that are pretty much MMO rejects makes a PERFECT sample that is representative to the general MMO crowd.
.. or you could just keep your mits off EQ:N and play EVE, Mortal Online, DF:UW, or any other openworld PvP.
sandbox does not equate to PvP and EQ has ALWAYS been a high emphasis on PvE. PvP will be incorperated just like how it is in WoW or Rift or SWTOR.... that it will be fully consensual with PvP server options. Like it or not, that will what it'll be as any other form will result in massive drop in potential customers and something they will not do.
That would be a themepark.
Or you could just go play Darkfall:Unholy Wars for your PvP roflstomp, throwing the word sandbox around is useless as it means different things to everyone.
Or do as they did in EQ1 and just have PvP servers