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Why did Neverwinter get a Pass?

ReehayReehay ftgdfgd, NVPosts: 172Member

Why did Neverwinter get a pass - On being the most linear, hub to hub, tug-a-long, faceroll, shallow themepark; when games like TERA get trashed for it? Small zones, follow the rails (paths) to the next hub, cut and paste dungeons, boss AI so predictable that my son's hamster could beat them... zero exploration value.. etc

I just got to max level, and while I noticed this obvious shallow linear experience very early, I felt compelled to at least get to max level before I made any reviews.

And how is this whack-a-mole game even remotely similar to Dungeon and Dragons? Its clearly more Diablo2 than anything D&D.  Faceroll slaughtering AE groups of mobs and having loot spew out like loot pinatas and then scrambling to scoop up shinies on the ground? So did the developers just decide they needed to do the minimum to claim the powerful cloak of D&D?  I think Gary Gygax would be ashamed - more likely, simply amused - to have his creation associated with this mess.

The Foundry has some good content, its the sole reason I enter the game each night (that and my 11 yr son plays - yes, his tastes in MMO are much less refined as mine).

I have my own theories on why Neverwinter gets a pass on this... but what are yours?

Comments

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    Because it didn't need one. It was what it was and it was pretty close to what people expected it to be.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONPosts: 2,499Member Uncommon

    I applaud you for even acknowledging that there is a story at all. I actually accepted so many Foundry quests now that I forget what my damn story quests even are, lol. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,714Member Uncommon

    You put the answer there yourself, Foundry.

    But I like to goofing around with the professions as well, a bit similar to STO's DOff system, just much simplier and blander (though with the live launch there's Alchemy now as a new one)

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member
    Originally posted by Reehay

    Why did Neverwinter get a pass - On being the most linear, hub to hub, tug-a-long, faceroll, shallow themepark; when games like TERA get trashed for it? Small zones, follow the rails (paths) to the next hub, cut and paste dungeons, boss AI so predictable that my son's hamster could beat them... zero exploration value.. etc

    I just got to max level, and while I noticed this obvious shallow linear experience very early, I felt compelled to at least get to max level before I made any reviews.

    And how is this whack-a-mole game even remotely similar to Dungeon and Dragons? Its clearly more Diablo2 than anything D&D.  Faceroll slaughtering AE groups of mobs and having loot spew out like loot pinatas and then scrambling to scoop up shinies on the ground? So did the developers just decide they needed to do the minimum to claim the powerful cloak of D&D?  I think Gary Gygax would be ashamed - more likely, simply amused - to have his creation associated with this mess.

    The Foundry has some good content, its the sole reason I enter the game each night (that and my 11 yr son plays - yes, his tastes in MMO are much less refined as mine).

    I have my own theories on why Neverwinter gets a pass on this... but what are yours?

    This is going to sound bad, but I just don't think enough people care about Neverwinter to throw a fit over it.

  • thecapitainethecapitaine West Chester, PAPosts: 401Member Uncommon
    Neverwinter was blasted by this site and its forums for its cash shop, its AD exploit, its misleading "Open Beta" moniker, for its lack of customization and more.  No pass in sight, as far as I'm concerned.  Especially when there are articles claiming games like Marvel Heroes "aren't charities", where Age of Wushu's only problems are apparently poor translation, and countless informative/begging threads ran rampant in the forums while CU was in the middle of its kickstarter.  I'm not defending NW or trying to bash on those other games but it seems pretty clear to me that there's a definite bias when it comes to certain publishers, developers, games, and genres on this site.  NW doesn't fit any of those favored criteria and so there's no question it has had more than its share of negativity here.
  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    I think expectations were pretty low, and information was high. It was known to be heavily instanced, bereft of class choices, F2P, and every example of gameplay footage revealed it to be just barely more 3D MMO-like than Diablo. The D&D crowd signed off pretty early, so overall there was little to complain about.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • gimmesomegimmesome Rancho Cucamonga, CAPosts: 362Member

    Hehehe. I know what you're saying, OP. 

     

    Funny part is, as much as I agree with you, (and believe me, I agree 100% on all points) I still think the game gets a PASS.

     

    Why?   Because it didn't say it was going to be anything else than what it is, and what it does it does extremely well.   

    It's a D&D 4.0 ruleset digital experience.     People don't play D&D to walk around and explore the country side.... or to collect epic mounts... or to raid....  or even to /dance.    They play it to run dungeons/scenarios/modules with their friends.   

    That's in Neverwinter.   The crappy 4.0 combat rules.   Done in a way that feels EXCELLENT.   

    Running dungeons/scenarios with friends.  

    Foundry system for players to create their own content.   (Most of it sucks, but that's the fault of the players making them) 

    It's FREE.   (which counts to some as a reason to not bitch too much about what it lacks or does wrong)

    It just generally works.   A lot better than most of the other jokes that call themselves "MMO" and don't work on launch day.

    Neverwinter for sure has faults, and even some game breaking faults (like the zen cheating and other exploits) but I guess as it's really enjoyable to just PLAY the game, and being allowed to do so without paying for it, the players don't seem to bitch as much.   

    Plus, as it's not really a threat to any other games/titles, people probably don't feel as much of a need to speak out about it, protecting their own game, or attacking the opposition.   People are clique-ish by nature.    There's just no defining anti-Neverwinter clique to rile things up.

     

  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Rohnert Park, CAPosts: 848Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    Because it didn't need one. It was what it was and it was pretty close to what people expected it to be.

     

    That's how I saw it as well.

  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,556Member Uncommon

    Yeah, I don't think people care enough about the game to even write a hate post about it.  I was a bit suprised to see as much love as I saw around here..but it was really short lived.

    Most of the praise I saw for it was about the combat, not necessarily about the hub to hub linear brain dead design.

  • RohnRohn Saint Peters, MOPosts: 3,740Member Uncommon
    Probably because it's a good game, and matched expectations for what it was trying to be.

    Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    Because it didn't need one. It was what it was and it was pretty close to what people expected it to be.

    This ^

    Why do games now need a 'pass' for not trying to be the next messiah of the genre. Neverwinter has plenty of problems, but that doesn't stop it from being an enjoyable game for a lot of people. I'm pretty much done with the game, but I still have quite a few friends that are enjoying it. Just don't expect it to be the MMO that will hold you over all the other MMOs ever.

  • JorlJorl SunderlandPosts: 257Member
    The combat is perhaps the best I seen in a MMO.
  • gimmesomegimmesome Rancho Cucamonga, CAPosts: 362Member
    Originally posted by Mardukk

    Yeah, I don't think people care enough about the game to even write a hate post about it.  I was a bit suprised to see as much love as I saw around here..but it was really short lived.

    Most of the praise I saw for it was about the combat, not necessarily about the hub to hub linear brain dead design.

    Pretty much this.  I guess my response was a bit long winded, but, still.... Overall I think it comes down to the combat being so enjoyable that it overshadowed the negative aspects.   Esp. considering the negative aspects were all expected, and also traits shared with other more successful games.  So, not worth the energy or thought to bring it up, but instead, talk about how GOOD the GOOD part of the game is.    

     

    I wouldn't complain about this.  It's refreshing that a game does something so well that the general talk about the game isn't about what was done wrong.  

     

    I'm guilty of talking about what's wrong with games a lot.  A LOT.    So, even someone like me who over analyzes got a lot of enjoyment out of Neverwinter.     I stopped playing about a month or 2 ago, and never reached cap ( i don't rush through MMOS ) -- but i had fun.   Just got bored of the same old same old, that's all.     Hard for me to put time and emotional investment in "level up, get better gear, craft something, do it again with a tank/dps/healer toon" anymore when I've done it so much over the years in what seems to be a neverending stream of Fantasy stories.

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by gimmesome
    Originally posted by Mardukk

    Yeah, I don't think people care enough about the game to even write a hate post about it.  I was a bit suprised to see as much love as I saw around here..but it was really short lived.

    Most of the praise I saw for it was about the combat, not necessarily about the hub to hub linear brain dead design.

       Just got bored of the same old same old, that's all.     Hard for me to put time and emotional investment in "level up, get better gear, craft something, do it again with a tank/dps/healer toon" anymore when I've done it so much over the years in what seems to be a neverending stream of Fantasy stories.

    Yeah I'm with you there. Only problem is that these conventions seem to have become law. I'm so bored of gear grinding trinity games, yet all of my friends are on the teat when it comes to tab target timer healing and treadmills.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,506Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jorl
    The combat is perhaps the best I seen in a MMO.

    It is very enjoyable, but it got old fast for me. I have two 60s that I haven't played in over a week. Just lost any desire to invest any more time into the game.

     

     

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Neverwinter fell into the special Olympics of MMOs and it's rude to make fun of them.
  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Phoenix, AZPosts: 823Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Reehay

    Why did Neverwinter get a pass - On being the most linear, hub to hub, tug-a-long, faceroll, shallow themepark; when games like TERA get trashed for it? Small zones, follow the rails (paths) to the next hub, cut and paste dungeons, boss AI so predictable that my son's hamster could beat them... zero exploration value.. etc

    I just got to max level, and while I noticed this obvious shallow linear experience very early, I felt compelled to at least get to max level before I made any reviews.

    And how is this whack-a-mole game even remotely similar to Dungeon and Dragons? Its clearly more Diablo2 than anything D&D.  Faceroll slaughtering AE groups of mobs and having loot spew out like loot pinatas and then scrambling to scoop up shinies on the ground? So did the developers just decide they needed to do the minimum to claim the powerful cloak of D&D?  I think Gary Gygax would be ashamed - more likely, simply amused - to have his creation associated with this mess.

    The Foundry has some good content, its the sole reason I enter the game each night (that and my 11 yr son plays - yes, his tastes in MMO are much less refined as mine).

    I have my own theories on why Neverwinter gets a pass on this... but what are yours?

    To put it succinctly, it's Cryptic. It's what they do , it's what people expect from them. No one holds them to a high standard.

    image
  • NoLimit5401NoLimit5401 two rivers, WIPosts: 20Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by niceguy3978
    Originally posted by Reehay

    Why did Neverwinter get a pass - On being the most linear, hub to hub, tug-a-long, faceroll, shallow themepark; when games like TERA get trashed for it? Small zones, follow the rails (paths) to the next hub, cut and paste dungeons, boss AI so predictable that my son's hamster could beat them... zero exploration value.. etc

    I just got to max level, and while I noticed this obvious shallow linear experience very early, I felt compelled to at least get to max level before I made any reviews.

    And how is this whack-a-mole game even remotely similar to Dungeon and Dragons? Its clearly more Diablo2 than anything D&D.  Faceroll slaughtering AE groups of mobs and having loot spew out like loot pinatas and then scrambling to scoop up shinies on the ground? So did the developers just decide they needed to do the minimum to claim the powerful cloak of D&D?  I think Gary Gygax would be ashamed - more likely, simply amused - to have his creation associated with this mess.

    The Foundry has some good content, its the sole reason I enter the game each night (that and my 11 yr son plays - yes, his tastes in MMO are much less refined as mine).

    I have my own theories on why Neverwinter gets a pass on this... but what are yours?

    This is going to sound bad, but I just don't think enough people care about Neverwinter to throw a fit over it.

     

    They don't care now, but when the game went live, "open beta" if that is what they pretended it was, they did care.

    As always, tons of people trashed the new game and tons of people defended it. I think that either the number of people hyped for this stinker was lower then the norm or people tried it and left so fast, by the time the official launch occured (today?) it didn't matter to the masses anymore and only the extremely intelligent that spent $200 are the main ones sticking it out.

     

    A crap game was made by guess what? A crap developer with a crap publisher....

    The combat and the foundry xp exploit were the only reason I even played for almost a week.

     

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,473Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by niceguy3978
    Originally posted by Reehay

    Why did Neverwinter get a pass - On being the most linear, hub to hub, tug-a-long, faceroll, shallow themepark; when games like TERA get trashed for it? Small zones, follow the rails (paths) to the next hub, cut and paste dungeons, boss AI so predictable that my son's hamster could beat them... zero exploration value.. etc

    I just got to max level, and while I noticed this obvious shallow linear experience very early, I felt compelled to at least get to max level before I made any reviews.

    And how is this whack-a-mole game even remotely similar to Dungeon and Dragons? Its clearly more Diablo2 than anything D&D.  Faceroll slaughtering AE groups of mobs and having loot spew out like loot pinatas and then scrambling to scoop up shinies on the ground? So did the developers just decide they needed to do the minimum to claim the powerful cloak of D&D?  I think Gary Gygax would be ashamed - more likely, simply amused - to have his creation associated with this mess.

    The Foundry has some good content, its the sole reason I enter the game each night (that and my 11 yr son plays - yes, his tastes in MMO are much less refined as mine).

    I have my own theories on why Neverwinter gets a pass on this... but what are yours?

    This is going to sound bad, but I just don't think enough people care about Neverwinter to throw a fit over it.

     This is how I feel.

  • MadDemon64MadDemon64 Maplewood, NJPosts: 1,098Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gimmesome

    Hehehe. I know what you're saying, OP. 

     

    Funny part is, as much as I agree with you, (and believe me, I agree 100% on all points) I still think the game gets a PASS.

     

    Why?   Because it didn't say it was going to be anything else than what it is, and what it does it does extremely well.   

    It's a D&D 4.0 ruleset digital experience.     People don't play D&D to walk around and explore the country side.... or to collect epic mounts... or to raid....  or even to /dance.    They play it to run dungeons/scenarios/modules with their friends.   

    That's in Neverwinter.   The crappy 4.0 combat rules.   Done in a way that feels EXCELLENT.   

    Running dungeons/scenarios with friends.  

    Foundry system for players to create their own content.   (Most of it sucks, but that's the fault of the players making them) 

    It's FREE.   (which counts to some as a reason to not bitch too much about what it lacks or does wrong)

    It just generally works.   A lot better than most of the other jokes that call themselves "MMO" and don't work on launch day.

    Neverwinter for sure has faults, and even some game breaking faults (like the zen cheating and other exploits) but I guess as it's really enjoyable to just PLAY the game, and being allowed to do so without paying for it, the players don't seem to bitch as much.   

    Plus, as it's not really a threat to any other games/titles, people probably don't feel as much of a need to speak out about it, protecting their own game, or attacking the opposition.   People are clique-ish by nature.    There's just no defining anti-Neverwinter clique to rile things up.

     

    There you have it folks, a game that was was able to deliver what it promised due to it not promising to reinvent the wheel.  How many MMOs, or just video games in general can you recall in recent memory that actually did this, that didn't give grandiose promises and fail to live up to them due to the promises being unrealistic and/or ego-stroking?

    Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  • kovahkovah Orlando, FLPosts: 695Member
    Originally posted by gimmesome

    Hehehe. I know what you're saying, OP. 

     

    Funny part is, as much as I agree with you, (and believe me, I agree 100% on all points) I still think the game gets a PASS.

     

    Why?   Because it didn't say it was going to be anything else than what it is, and what it does it does extremely well.   

    It's a D&D 4.0 ruleset digital experience.     People don't play D&D to walk around and explore the country side.... or to collect epic mounts... or to raid....  or even to /dance.    They play it to run dungeons/scenarios/modules with their friends.   

    That's in Neverwinter.   The crappy 4.0 combat rules.   Done in a way that feels EXCELLENT.   

    Running dungeons/scenarios with friends.  

    Foundry system for players to create their own content.   (Most of it sucks, but that's the fault of the players making them) 

    It's FREE.   (which counts to some as a reason to not bitch too much about what it lacks or does wrong)

    It just generally works.   A lot better than most of the other jokes that call themselves "MMO" and don't work on launch day.

    Neverwinter for sure has faults, and even some game breaking faults (like the zen cheating and other exploits) but I guess as it's really enjoyable to just PLAY the game, and being allowed to do so without paying for it, the players don't seem to bitch as much.   

    Plus, as it's not really a threat to any other games/titles, people probably don't feel as much of a need to speak out about it, protecting their own game, or attacking the opposition.   People are clique-ish by nature.    There's just no defining anti-Neverwinter clique to rile things up.

     

    Given the lack of +1 feature on this site I'll just leave this here:

     

    +1

  • trihastrihas Oregon, ORPosts: 4Member
     small, most content is zoned or instanced, and questing is very directive, yet Cryptic manages to avoid the corridor effect of recent F2P such as Vindictus. You encounter enough players to feel you are actually playing an MMO, but the amount of backtracking and mindless grinding is satisfyingly limited. The graphic design is surprisingly sober, yet the environments are varied and eye-pleasing with a maxed-out level of detail and drawing distance. When you factor in a fun action-oriented combat system, and a low dependance on the cash store, I thought I had a winner here.

    Alas, the end-game is where NW fails to shine. Almost any end-game 5-man dungeon and boss fight is based on an absurd number of adds, thus putting a disproportionate emphasis on CC and kiting. As a result, the Guardian Fighter (tank), Trickster Rogue (single target DPS) and Great Weapon Fighter (melee aoe DPS) appear superfluous, while the Control Wizard (CC dps) is absolutely mandatory as is the Devoted Cleric (Healer), the latter being more understandable. This fundamental unbalance in design pidgeon-holes most classes into specific builds, which is quite unnerving as respecs are of course, this is a F2P costly, be it in time or real money. There is absolutely nothing rewarding to do on your own once you hit max level. The foundry (user-generated quest campaigns) are a great addition during levelling as they grant a very decent amount of xp, but they're limited to very basic loot tables which become worthless in regard to other activities. As in most MMOs, PvP and it's classic battleground sysem is a CC mess, only bearable during the (short) time required to get the full PvP set. Which could be at least somewhat useful except that due to very poor loot distribution mechanisms, the in-game auction house is flooded with cheap epic gear. From there, the time required to get the marginally better BoS items increases exponentially and hardly feels worth the effort (especially if you do not benefit from a stable guild). Finally, the EVE-inspired time-based crafting system is efficient and even fun, until you realise the absurd amount of time required to max a profession out, especially as the intermediate rewards are close to totally worthless. However, these flaws are relatively superficial and could easily be adressed by moderate tweaking thus my opinion on NW remains positive. The game has a solid foundation, a fun combat system and a casual-friendly approach. In its current state, and while it failed to suck me in on a long term basis, it was and remains very worth a shot
  • Mondo80Mondo80 Newington, CTPosts: 189Member Uncommon
    On site the more hate a game receives the more people have played it.  I'd say for every individual negative post there are 3500 to 4000 players actively playing the game who haven't heard of this site.

    image

  • I would say its because that is what they said it was gonna be.  Neverwinter was always billed as a sort of hybrid of NWN + some MMO features. 

     

    Its meant to be very instance based just like NWN and one of the reasons for this is the Foundry.

     

    Think about it: A DM could long into NWO make 20 foundrt missions and have some friends exclusively run those as a campaign and make their own mini online private game that he ran with his friends as a player as well. 

     

    Basically there is the "official" campaign and then there is the player crafted campaign.  You can call it an MMO but it not meant to be the traditional EQ MMO.  Its meant to be be more like NWN servers in many ways.

     

    Really NWO would far more damaged by making some standard 4th edition class be completely represented wrong than by having linear content in the "official campaign".  You know like making bow rangers into tanks or something.

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