I really have a feeling a lot of you are going to be real disappointed and not because EQnext will be a bad game, because I don't think it will. It will be because you really want to rekindle what EQ1's experience was when you first played it. That kind of MMO doesn't exist and probably never will.
Sony wants to make money and EQnext ,like WoW, will appease the masses. That isn't a bad thing to most people, but I feel a lot of fanboys will be pissed.
I know for a fact (ok well maybe not 100% fact) EQnext will be a lot different. I read somewhere that, like EQ1 pretty much created and made a new genre called MMORPG and made it main stream. In the same article it said that EQNext will be built the same way. I predict the game will be an MMO in the basic sense of the word.
Not really, at least not in my case. I realize that no game is going to recreate the feeling that EQ had as being my first MMO and all of that. However, I do think earning loot is something I would enjoy even today, and it's not just rose-colored glasses.
I think bringing back that feeling of accomplishment of obtaining gear is plausible, instead of turning everything into a loot pinata.
I miss defeating a boss that took us a week or two to defeat and my heart stopping when I seen my gear drop. Probably won't ever be that great again, I got to the point I just wanted to raid and loot was a bonus.
Why does it have to be about gear... let alone, the look of the gear. It never really made sense to me that a piece of clothing would somehow make you stronger. When does it stop? Why can't it be different? Why can't our characters just grow and get better... We have levels to gain, sure... But at some point you hit a wall and your only advancement is something you hold or wear.
Armor should be just that... Armor. It is designed to protect you, not give you more health, strength, or spell power. Weapons on the other hand shouldn't be an extension of that armor. It can protect you to some extent, but it's definitely not your primary source of protection. Weapons should add to your effectiveness, but again only to a certain extent. Weapons also should have their strengths and weaknesses.
If we all spent more time honing our skills, both as a player and character, and less worrying about the gear I think games would become more enjoyable. When a game makes you depend more on your gear than yourself then that's when it loses it's fun. Your gear's dependency should stop at the point where you equip yourself for a certain scenario. For instance, if you're going up against a boss that does a lot of fire attacks and is a difficult opponent in close quarters then it would be smart to equip yourself with the appropriate gear for combat that boss.
I'd also like to add that if there's one thing I like about GW2, even though I don't like it at all, it would be the way weapons effect your skills.
Well we are talking about a game that is all about fantasy/magical stuff... Putting on a "stronger" piece of gear makes a lot more sense to me then gaining an imaginary level. Think you are trying to mix in a little too much reality that defeats the purpose of everything.
I do agree with spending less time or having less reliance on gear instead of our own skill though. Gear should support what we can do ourselves, not what we fall back on when we aren't good enough.
Once the game that shall not be mentioned showed up and started giving away loot like samples at Costco, the genre has never returned to the days of earning your gear and having to be patient....Now every game since has been isntant gratification and I doubt it stops with EQN....I think alot of people are expecting EQN to return to the glory days of EQ, while I am expecting EQN to follow whatever path the current trend setter is doing (which will probably still be wow at that time).
When I think of a sandbox mmo, I think Ultima Online. There was a lot of things that I loved to hate about the game. As a matter of fact I can't even begin to think about the number of keyboards and mouse's I broke while playing it.
I don't know what direction EQN is going with this game, but one of the things that I liked about UO was the fact that the crafters made the best armor/weapons in the game. Sure you might loot a silver katana of vanquishing, but you wouldn't dare walk out of town with it. The risk of getting killed and loosing the item was too much to bare. Therefore, people used the crafted weapons and armor that they could buy for 2000 gold and not fear losing it. I know that UO later changed the system by being able to bless your items.
I have played a lot of mmo's for a lot of years, but do not consider myself an expert by any means. I do think by having crafters make the most sought after items in the game, that it creates a more realistic player ran economy, and gives the people who like to craft a valid place in the world. It also forces the player to rely more on their skill than the items they have equipped.
I'm not saying to use the exact template that UO had, God knows I like to show off my epeen just as much as anyone else. But maybe there could be a balance? Who knows.. just my two cents.
I apologize for my poor grammar, I was too busy thinking about playing EQ1 in class to pay attention to my studies.
When I think of a sandbox mmo, I think Ultima Online. There was a lot of things that I loved to hate about the game. As a matter of fact I can't even begin to think about the number of keyboards and mouse's I broke while playing it.
I don't know what direction EQN is going with this game, but one of the things that I liked about UO was the fact that the crafters made the best armor/weapons in the game. Sure you might loot a silver katana of vanquishing, but you wouldn't dare walk out of town with it. The risk of getting killed and loosing the item was too much to bare. Therefore, people used the crafted weapons and armor that they could buy for 2000 gold and not fear losing it. I know that UO later changed the system by being able to bless your items.
I have played a lot of mmo's for a lot of years, but do not consider myself an expert by any means. I do think by having crafters make the most sought after items in the game, that it creates a more realistic player ran economy, and gives the people who like to craft a valid place in the world. It also forces the player to rely more on their skill than the items they have equipped.
I'm not saying to use the exact template that UO had, God knows I like to show off my epeen just as much as anyone else. But maybe there could be a balance? Who knows.. just my two cents.
I apologize for my poor grammar, I was too busy thinking about playing EQ1 in class to pay attention to my studies.
I agree. Crafting gear being the best or at least equal with high end items is great. Just add in the ability to transfer the skins from drops to the crafted gear (to show off your accomplishments) and be able to transfer magical attributes (Jboot's speed) and I would be a happy guy (would say camper, but I don't want to sit at camps forever and ever).
I do miss "earning" loot, but I don't miss the typical methods of keeping it away from me.
See, I have no problem with long epic quests or a long grind, but I always have a problem with RNG. If Joe Schmoe can waltz in and get lucky with little effort it truly diminishes my satisfaction to almost nothing.
Now if something takes a great deal of time, fine. At least that way I know everyone else who has that particular item went through the same slog I did. It's like a club of people who persevered rather than a few people who spent countless hours trying to get something with a bunch of other people who just got it right away.
That's why the legendary items in GW2 suck. It revolves around lots of luck or just buying it. Well that's nice.
I love the RNG. It's the juice. When it comes down to beancounter badge collecting X badge over N runs, you lose me as a player. WOW type of crap. Now, in vanilla upgrading gear through those upgrade quests at cap was fine. Badges no.
I don't care how others got it as long as they did not exploit.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I like the idea of people having epic stuff that looks different, but I also think that all players should be able to customize their character's look.
I do miss "earning" loot, but I don't miss the typical methods of keeping it away from me.
See, I have no problem with long epic quests or a long grind, but I always have a problem with RNG. If Joe Schmoe can waltz in and get lucky with little effort it truly diminishes my satisfaction to almost nothing.
Now if something takes a great deal of time, fine. At least that way I know everyone else who has that particular item went through the same slog I did. It's like a club of people who persevered rather than a few people who spent countless hours trying to get something with a bunch of other people who just got it right away.
That's why the legendary items in GW2 suck. It revolves around lots of luck or just buying it. Well that's nice.
You know if dev's instead of using a percentage drop based system, but instead use a count system. Meaning set a number of times you havta kill a certain mob, It should be diffrent depending wether your in a group or solo. That way everyone would achieve the item at the same pace.
EX. full group - 1000 mobs = epic weapon
Solo - 500 mobs = epic weapon
Would be based on same mob, half on solo, because full groups would kill that same mob much faster.
In EQ, as a caster class starting out, you had this dorky robe that was either blue, green, yellow or pink if I remember correctly. There was a white robe that you could get as one of your very first upgrade from that newbie robe called the Gossamer robe. Just getting that robe (whether you looted it or bought it from another player - it didn't matter) was a status symbol. You stood out amongst all the rest of the newbies. Everyone would ask, "where did you get that robe?!" Why? Because they wanted to look different also. Then the FBR, Oracle robe, SBR and the many others that came afterward. They were difficult to come by, but they had MEANING. It didn't mean you were a hardcore raider or you were in an epic guild. It just meant that you got lucky one day, or you worked hard to get the plat up to buy it from someone else who got lucky.
Hell, I created a necro when Kunark came out JUST for the simple reason I wanted to wear the Tattered Tomb Shroud. An ULTRA rare robe that had seriously crappy stats (like +3 int). But it looked badass!
The biggest thing i want EQ next to bring back is the amount of different styles and loot there is at every level. i hate getting to endgame in any recent game and having the same armor/weapons/stats as everyone else. its boring. i want to feel unique. And im not talking about skins but actual gear with somewhat different stats. Epics were the only thing people had that were the same as each other but they were epic quest not some daily-token bound quest to get it in 14 days. Also i want heavy oriented grouping like in EQ1. thats what mmorpg means is massive grouping. not solo to end game and not know the extent of your class. One more thing SoE devs if you are reading... please dont give everyone in the game spells similar to other classes... Sk's get lower necro spells and such and im okay with that because they had their own spells to go along with it... the thing that really turned me off from wow was the fact they gave hunters and mages bloodlust just like my shaman. that made me my class... instead they gave it to others and i was no longer needed.
Originally posted by bcbully Wait this a sandbox, aren't all items player generated?
By sandbox, you mean a fail sandbox missing any form of meaningful pve?
EQ Next will have pve, and you can bet your ass it will have item progression from both crafting and pve. Hopefully it will also give us enough to do with contested content to fight over to keep us playing for more than a couple months.
I think people hoping for the return of loot centered game play are going to be disappointed.
"I also said in there that it will still be very familiar to you, but what I meant by that statement is that we're changing what an MMO is. MMO means something now, and it means the same thing to everybody because it's the same game. EverQuest, WoW, SWTOR all use the same core loot gameplay, which is kill stuff, get reward, get loot, level up. Very few games have broken out of that mold. One or two have. Eve Online is a great example; it's not standard level-based gameplay, although I'm not saying we're going to a big skill-based system. You're still going to recognize the roleplaying game heritage in it. In EverQuest Next, the world itself is a part of the game. What is the world in these other games? It's a simple backdrop. It's nothing. We are changing that greatly. We're changing what AI is in these games to a degree that we're going to bring life to the world. That to us is the essence of the change that we're making."
I think people hoping for the return of loot centered game play are going to be disappointed.
"I also said in there that it will still be very familiar to you, but what I meant by that statement is that we're changing what an MMO is. MMO means something now, and it means the same thing to everybody because it's the same game. EverQuest, WoW, SWTOR all use the same core loot gameplay, which is kill stuff, get reward, get loot, level up. Very few games have broken out of that mold. One or two have. Eve Online is a great example; it's not standard level-based gameplay, although I'm not saying we're going to a big skill-based system. You're still going to recognize the roleplaying game heritage in it. In EverQuest Next, the world itself is a part of the game. What is the world in these other games? It's a simple backdrop. It's nothing. We are changing that greatly. We're changing what AI is in these games to a degree that we're going to bring life to the world. That to us is the essence of the change that we're making."
Does anyone else want to see EQ go back to where the majority of toons looked ordinary, which made the people with rare items stand out a lot more than in MMORPGs released today. I know it's highly unlikely, because people want instant gratification, but "earning" most gear in today's MMOs doesn't feel anywhere near as satisfying as it did in early EQ days after obtaining a manastone, Yak, FBSS, fungi tunic, etc., etc.
Also, while I was leveling up my first toon, it was immediately obvious that a person I was looking at had rare loot. Seeing people with rare weapons and armor was motivation for me to want to go attempt to obtain the loot myself. Nowadays it is difficult to tell toons apart to the same degree as old EQ, because everyone has cool looking stuff.
I understand how you feel, I feel the same. Loot, is not as gratifying as it used to be. For me, it was never about the loot. I liked tackling large and fierce enemies with friends and being victorious. The loot for me was always something I 'had' to get in order to enjoy the cool encounters.
The type of game you are looking for will never exist again, not unless social aspects of the game are remedied. People need to be able to talk and communicate with one another.
Sadly, I missed the boat with EQ I was playing a korean MMO at the time, however I would watch with enjoyment my mates brother who would camp a location, he would run off with an bow and arrow and tag a mob and bring it to the drop to kill. I also remember the look of panic as a train of mobs ran through a dungeon as everyone shouted 'TRAIN INCOMING'.
But then, they all spoke with each other. They had a laugh and have fun. In WoW lately, you don't actually need to speak to anyone. It is, in part a solo game these days with other players being nothing more than computer controlled AI that help you out from time to time in dungeons and raiding.
If you were in Org in tier gear.... you were hardcore, you stood out.
if you held rank 12-14 for pvp,... damn you played
i would like to stand out again
agreed, being one of most famous players on server was fun, doubt that will ever come back, or that I will have as much free time to invest in a game as I had before
Its amazing to see so many threads where players are asking for a new and improved EQ1.
EQN will not be EQ1 done better, SoE has EQ1 and Vanguard already.
I play EQ1 still so for all these EQ1 needs I just play EQ1.
Smedley is making an entirely new type of game, it will be also playable on PS4, I hope it removes as many old stale systems as possible.
I hope EQN is a game that I DON'T KNOW how to play, something that different.
Otherwise it's a the same old rehashed gameplay.
EQ1 today is nothing like classic Everquest. They've made too many compromises, just like everyone else.
A lot of people just hope EQN will somehow bring back the sense of challenge and risk. The danger that makes a game immersive, where travelling across the world takes time and is a real adventure. Those things no longer exist in any game, not even in EQ1.
If EQ Next is going to be an endless grind for equipment upgrades then they are just remaking the same crap that we're all already sick of playing.
Having said that; just talking about gear grind based games in general, I do tend to agree that equipment upgrades should come more slowly than they do in most games these days. However, I would absolutely disagree with anyone who would suggest that the bulk of players should be blocked out of any real hope to get the best items just so a few people with too much time on their hands can feel like big shots.
But whatever, as I said before, if that is what EQ Next is about---a gear grind for ever increasingly powerfull gear---then they really are just making a rehash of the same ol' crap again.
I dont want to get on a gear treadmill again. I wana play for fun and raid for fun. I dont have time to raid 3-5 times a week 5-8hrs a day to keep up. I hope getting gear is not the end game.
I remember sitting in Guk camping the FBSS, I sat their napping on the couch waiting for the frog to respawn and then killing him again and again and agin. I think it ended up taking about 5 1/2 hours on my second run (about 2 hours the first time then I gave up)
I hated camping it, but once I got it, it remains to this day the most cherished item I have ever looted in an MMO.
Bring back rarity !
Also, I miss shouting "CAMP CHECK!" when I enter a zone
Does anyone else want to see EQ go back to where the majority of toons looked ordinary, which made the people with rare items stand out a lot more than in MMORPGs released today. I know it's highly unlikely, because people want instant gratification, but "earning" most gear in today's MMOs doesn't feel anywhere near as satisfying as it did in early EQ days after obtaining a manastone, Yak, FBSS, fungi tunic, etc., etc.
Also, while I was leveling up my first toon, it was immediately obvious that a person I was looking at had rare loot. Seeing people with rare weapons and armor was motivation for me to want to go attempt to obtain the loot myself. Nowadays it is difficult to tell toons apart to the same degree as old EQ, because everyone has cool looking stuff.
Taking scrubs cash on the AH? Priceless.
Oh. You meant "trophies" instead of "loot". MMO Viagra.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Comments
Not really, at least not in my case. I realize that no game is going to recreate the feeling that EQ had as being my first MMO and all of that. However, I do think earning loot is something I would enjoy even today, and it's not just rose-colored glasses.
I think bringing back that feeling of accomplishment of obtaining gear is plausible, instead of turning everything into a loot pinata.
Well we are talking about a game that is all about fantasy/magical stuff... Putting on a "stronger" piece of gear makes a lot more sense to me then gaining an imaginary level. Think you are trying to mix in a little too much reality that defeats the purpose of everything.
I do agree with spending less time or having less reliance on gear instead of our own skill though. Gear should support what we can do ourselves, not what we fall back on when we aren't good enough.
When I think of a sandbox mmo, I think Ultima Online. There was a lot of things that I loved to hate about the game. As a matter of fact I can't even begin to think about the number of keyboards and mouse's I broke while playing it.
I don't know what direction EQN is going with this game, but one of the things that I liked about UO was the fact that the crafters made the best armor/weapons in the game. Sure you might loot a silver katana of vanquishing, but you wouldn't dare walk out of town with it. The risk of getting killed and loosing the item was too much to bare. Therefore, people used the crafted weapons and armor that they could buy for 2000 gold and not fear losing it. I know that UO later changed the system by being able to bless your items.
I have played a lot of mmo's for a lot of years, but do not consider myself an expert by any means. I do think by having crafters make the most sought after items in the game, that it creates a more realistic player ran economy, and gives the people who like to craft a valid place in the world. It also forces the player to rely more on their skill than the items they have equipped.
I'm not saying to use the exact template that UO had, God knows I like to show off my epeen just as much as anyone else. But maybe there could be a balance? Who knows.. just my two cents.
I apologize for my poor grammar, I was too busy thinking about playing EQ1 in class to pay attention to my studies.
I agree. Crafting gear being the best or at least equal with high end items is great. Just add in the ability to transfer the skins from drops to the crafted gear (to show off your accomplishments) and be able to transfer magical attributes (Jboot's speed) and I would be a happy guy (would say camper, but I don't want to sit at camps forever and ever).
I love the RNG. It's the juice. When it comes down to beancounter badge collecting X badge over N runs, you lose me as a player. WOW type of crap. Now, in vanilla upgrading gear through those upgrade quests at cap was fine. Badges no.
I don't care how others got it as long as they did not exploit.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Appearance Tabs?
I like the idea of people having epic stuff that looks different, but I also think that all players should be able to customize their character's look.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
You know if dev's instead of using a percentage drop based system, but instead use a count system. Meaning set a number of times you havta kill a certain mob, It should be diffrent depending wether your in a group or solo. That way everyone would achieve the item at the same pace.
EX. full group - 1000 mobs = epic weapon
Solo - 500 mobs = epic weapon
Would be based on same mob, half on solo, because full groups would kill that same mob much faster.
In EQ, as a caster class starting out, you had this dorky robe that was either blue, green, yellow or pink if I remember correctly. There was a white robe that you could get as one of your very first upgrade from that newbie robe called the Gossamer robe. Just getting that robe (whether you looted it or bought it from another player - it didn't matter) was a status symbol. You stood out amongst all the rest of the newbies. Everyone would ask, "where did you get that robe?!" Why? Because they wanted to look different also. Then the FBR, Oracle robe, SBR and the many others that came afterward. They were difficult to come by, but they had MEANING. It didn't mean you were a hardcore raider or you were in an epic guild. It just meant that you got lucky one day, or you worked hard to get the plat up to buy it from someone else who got lucky.
Hell, I created a necro when Kunark came out JUST for the simple reason I wanted to wear the Tattered Tomb Shroud. An ULTRA rare robe that had seriously crappy stats (like +3 int). But it looked badass!
By sandbox, you mean a fail sandbox missing any form of meaningful pve?
EQ Next will have pve, and you can bet your ass it will have item progression from both crafting and pve. Hopefully it will also give us enough to do with contested content to fight over to keep us playing for more than a couple months.
Just because they are expanding the MMO does not mean it will somehow eliminate all former gameplay elements.
I understand how you feel, I feel the same. Loot, is not as gratifying as it used to be. For me, it was never about the loot. I liked tackling large and fierce enemies with friends and being victorious. The loot for me was always something I 'had' to get in order to enjoy the cool encounters.
The type of game you are looking for will never exist again, not unless social aspects of the game are remedied. People need to be able to talk and communicate with one another.
Sadly, I missed the boat with EQ I was playing a korean MMO at the time, however I would watch with enjoyment my mates brother who would camp a location, he would run off with an bow and arrow and tag a mob and bring it to the drop to kill. I also remember the look of panic as a train of mobs ran through a dungeon as everyone shouted 'TRAIN INCOMING'.
But then, they all spoke with each other. They had a laugh and have fun. In WoW lately, you don't actually need to speak to anyone. It is, in part a solo game these days with other players being nothing more than computer controlled AI that help you out from time to time in dungeons and raiding.
I liked putting in lots of effort to earn the nice things but I'm not sure how relevant this will be to EQ Next.
Depends how sandboxy the sandbox is I guess.
agreed, being one of most famous players on server was fun, doubt that will ever come back, or that I will have as much free time to invest in a game as I had before
I already see it comming when this EQ will never be the same as some of you have played 10-12years ago.
Majority want instant uber loot and fast if EQN don,t have that forums will be full with players screaming the game suckss MARK MY WORDS.
If a few are famous majority will cry and demand faster uber loot or scream they cheating its complete othere era these days you guys seems to forget?
EQ was beginning of a themepark EQN will be sandbox if we must believe smedley many will be dissapointed and go back to WoW:p
EQ1 today is nothing like classic Everquest. They've made too many compromises, just like everyone else.
A lot of people just hope EQN will somehow bring back the sense of challenge and risk. The danger that makes a game immersive, where travelling across the world takes time and is a real adventure. Those things no longer exist in any game, not even in EQ1.
If EQ Next is going to be an endless grind for equipment upgrades then they are just remaking the same crap that we're all already sick of playing.
Having said that; just talking about gear grind based games in general, I do tend to agree that equipment upgrades should come more slowly than they do in most games these days. However, I would absolutely disagree with anyone who would suggest that the bulk of players should be blocked out of any real hope to get the best items just so a few people with too much time on their hands can feel like big shots.
But whatever, as I said before, if that is what EQ Next is about---a gear grind for ever increasingly powerfull gear---then they really are just making a rehash of the same ol' crap again.
I remember sitting in Guk camping the FBSS, I sat their napping on the couch waiting for the frog to respawn and then killing him again and again and agin. I think it ended up taking about 5 1/2 hours on my second run (about 2 hours the first time then I gave up)
I hated camping it, but once I got it, it remains to this day the most cherished item I have ever looted in an MMO.
Bring back rarity !
Also, I miss shouting "CAMP CHECK!" when I enter a zone
www.90and9.net
www.prophecymma.com
Taking scrubs cash on the AH? Priceless.
Oh. You meant "trophies" instead of "loot". MMO Viagra.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you have no idea what my post is about, based on your response.