Literally within 5 minutes of reaching level 60 (max atm) you can buy all the gear you need to raid. I thought we weren't going pay to win Trion? what happened there? I know you can buy your PvP kit as well not sure what impact that will have, but I am sure it won't be all that great.
Why sell gear at all? It is so unnecessary, sell mounts, pets, wardrobe and dimension (think housing) items and you will make heaps. But selling start raiding armor and weapons, to me that is exactly what paytowin is.
Just my opinions, I am sure most will disagree, but this game, just broke for me.
it's not raid gear it's world gear that can get you into experts but you'll still be lacking in raids. Also you can earn all that gear within the game without paying cash faster than you were able to before Rift went f2p.
its the same quality as NORMAL dungeon gear. you need to get gear from expert dungeons if you want to raid and its obtainable only in game.
and btw by buying REX (same as EvE's PLEX) and convert it to credits, you can buy anything from cash shop with in game currency.
Under normal circumstances I would agree that when you start selling gear in the cash shop the game becomers pay2win however when that gear is basically garbage that doesn't give you any kind of advantage over all the people who don't pay, then its not pay2win at all. You can dish out all the cash you want for a full set of cash shop gear and your still gonna get passed up by everyone who simply crafts, does expert dungeons, raids, raises their reps, etc because all the gear you get from doing those thing are better than anything you can buy in the cash shop. As others have mentioned as well you can spend ingame platinum on the AH to buy credits used for the cash shop as well if you really wanted to so everything in the cash shop is still accessible via ingame currency not just real life cash, something else most f2p games out there don't do.
Actually i bought game and expansion and everything else they had for sale off their website so i guess it would be pay to lose for me lol i like the game tho so just gotta deal with it i suppose.
If any game gives you the option to buy equipment that gives your character an ingame bonus to statistics, that's where they step over the 'pay to win' line, no matter how small said statistics are. You should not be allowed to buy actual equipment, ever.
Microtransactions should be cosmetic stuff only, IMO. Boosters are pushing it, especially if they give ludicrous bonuses (ie; attain something in 10 seconds vs 8 hours with far, far more rewards attached to it. Yes, I'm looking at you Neverwinter).
Literally within 5 minutes of reaching level 60 (max atm) you can buy all the gear you need to raid. I thought we weren't going pay to win Trion? what happened there? I know you can buy your PvP kit as well not sure what impact that will have, but I am sure it won't be all that great.
Why sell gear at all? It is so unnecessary, sell mounts, pets, wardrobe and dimension (think housing) items and you will make heaps. But selling start raiding armor and weapons, to me that is exactly what paytowin is.
Just my opinions, I am sure most will disagree, but this game, just broke for me.
Although i agree with you that selling gear of any kind is pretty lame, making the argument that its pay 2 win is pretty far fetched in this instance.
I raided heavily in both original and expansion in rift, and i can assure you the gear that you can buy in the store is not pre raid gear.
The gear is the equivalent to what drops in the initial level 60 dungeons, and can be bought by level 60 dungeon tokens. Its also the blue non upgraded gear. This gear is extremely easy to get, i mean EXTREMELY EASY.
The way the expansion was designed is that you got the Blue con dungeon gear, then you had to spend additional dungeon tokens to upgrade that blue stuff to purple con dungeon gear. The purple con dungeon gear is pre raid gear.
Im not a fan of it, and FYI i quit playing Rift before the F2P fiasco (even though i paid a year in advance), but in reality it isnt a huge deal in the grand scheme of things.
The other thing you have to consider is Rift, especially with the changes in the expansion regarding macros and most abilities being instant rather than a recast timer means that player skill has a MUCH larger affect on DPS than gear. I regularly out DPS'd guys with 600 more atk power than me by 20-30% on my warrior because they were mediocre players.
Rift's raids are also very unforgiving (compared to WOW), the DPS checks are harsh, they're basically set at about 85% of the max DPS a person can do. SO, i.e. you need your 14 DPS'ers to average 10k dps each, the best person might do 12k dps, which means you can only have a mediocre player doing 8k and still make up for it.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Originally posted by Arakazi Five years ago most of you would be appalled at even the suggestion of gear being sold on a AAA game. Soon people will be able to buy a max level toon and all the best gear. You might laugh, but it will happen.
People threw a shit fit about being able to buy building plans in GW2, but Trion apparently can do no wrong. lol Double standards ahoy.
Originally posted by Arakazi Five years ago most of you would be appalled at even the suggestion of gear being sold on a AAA game. Soon people will be able to buy a max level toon and all the best gear. You might laugh, but it will happen.
People threw a shit fit about being able to buy building plans in GW2, but Trion apparently can do no wrong. lol Double standards ahoy.
I just dont understand why people are so surprised about this. Its pretty much part and parcel of most F2P games. The ones that DONT sell gear and shit are the minority.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Originally posted by Arakazi Five years ago most of you would be appalled at even the suggestion of gear being sold on a AAA game. Soon people will be able to buy a max level toon and all the best gear. You might laugh, but it will happen.
People threw a shit fit about being able to buy building plans in GW2, but Trion apparently can do no wrong. lol Double standards ahoy.
I just dont understand why people are so surprised about this. Its pretty much part and parcel of most F2P games. The ones that DONT sell gear and shit are the minority.
I agree. I really don't see the problem in EITHER game. I may not play Rift, but I think the idea is a sound one.
RIFT IS PAY TO WIN!!! TRION GREED HAS RUINED A ONCE GREAT GAME!!!
So I get on the Rift Forums and I post a message about being frustrated that with the new Nightmare Tides, the Pay to Win has gotten even worse. Crafters have totally gotten screwed in that the gear they can make is nothing compared to the gear you can get if you purchase Nightmare Tides for $25.00. My post got deleted. I reposted it and was more "delicate" and asked the mods to please not delete this post as I read the terms of use and was careful not to violate them. My account got banned for "Discussing Moderation".
No matter how you look at it, Trion is working very hard to make their Pay to Win game more Pay to Win AND working just as hard at censoring any discussion about them doing it.
It's bad enough that they are destroying what used to be a great game for no other reason than greed, but censoring people's objections is both unethical and counter-productive to their own goals. This kind of offensive actions is sending good, loyal players away and rather than entice them back with an actual level playing field which is what true gamers are looking for, they just gut the wallets of the few stragglers that don't mind shelling out money for achievement instead of earning it the way it was meant to be earned.
Shame on you Trion. You have lost yet another fan, another gamer and you will not receive another red cent from me until you change the game back so there is a level playing field. Say NO to Pay to Win!!!
It is true that Trion Worlds is not locking anything necessary strictly behind a real world price tag wall. But, even so, they are forcing the player to choose between doing increasingly massive grinds and paying fee(s) to circumvent the said grinds, piece-by-piece.
In this sense, Rift is increasingly pressuring people to buy items from the Rift Store. I call this philosophy of game design "Pay to Skip Grinding (PTSG)". And this philosophy of game design is just as bad as P2W, just in the different way of using the limitations of your own willpower to grind as "the wall" in this case.
Now, perhaps this wouldn't be so bad, if the Rift team knew how to hide the grind behind fun gameplay. But, they don't. To the contrary, they are emphasizing it more and more (i.e. throwing up the Void Stone grind for gear straightforwardly with arbitrary weekly caps and very high equipment prices). PvP and world events were the only truly fun, dynamic activities in which you could forget about academic numbers and procedures and focus on something different in the moment. But, they've all but eliminated PvP in Rift. There are very few incentives to participate in world events now. And none of these activities have evolved into anything greater since Rift: Storm Legion's release and Scott Hartsman's departure as Executive Producer of Rift.
I honestly believe that the Rift team--as Bill "Daglar" Fisher is running it--doesn't know what they are doing at this point. It's just a shotgun blast of bad decision after bad decision from them.
Waiting for:Citadel of Sorcery. Along the way, The Elder Scrolls Online (when it is F2P).
Keeping an eye on:www.play2crush.com (whatever is going on here).
It is true that Trion Worlds is not locking anything necessary strictly behind a real world price tag wall. But, even so, they are forcing the player to choose between doing increasingly massive grinds and paying fee(s) to circumvent the said grinds, piece-by-piece.
In this sense, Rift is increasingly pressuring people to buy items from the Rift Store. I call this philosophy of game design "Pay to Skip Grinding (PTSG)". And this philosophy of game design is just as bad as P2W, just in the different way of using the limitations of your own willpower to grind as "the wall" in this case.
Now, perhaps this wouldn't be so bad, if the Rift team knew how to hide the grind behind fun gameplay. But, they don't. To the contrary, they are emphasizing it more and more (i.e. throwing up the Void Stone grind for gear straightforwardly with arbitrary weekly caps and very high equipment prices). PvP and world events were the only truly fun, dynamic activities in which you could forget about academic numbers and procedures and focus on something different in the moment. But, they've all but eliminated PvP in Rift. There are very few incentives to participate in world events now. And none of these activities have evolved into anything greater since Rift: Storm Legion's release and Scott Hartsman's departure as Executive Producer of Rift.
I honestly believe that the Rift team--as Bill "Daglar" Fisher is running it--doesn't know what they are doing at this point. It's just a shotgun blast of bad decision after bad decision from them.
PvP still here, just change no need to grind 2 set of gear. as for MMO there are a grind can't name one not a grind after you get pass there story content end up redoing the same game play.
World pvp been going down form day one with the old system with gear they had limited any new player to take on higher gear player in open world, or even can't defend your self as raider with out pvp gear that would took more time.
Right now players don't know what they want, they want this and that, like what happen a bit ago, player wanted CQ back, there was a few people didn't want it back due to lag it comes with, but now is back lag got worst, and now they don't want CQ.
But I have to agree there are many bad decision, and not a ton of risk.
Comments
its the same quality as NORMAL dungeon gear. you need to get gear from expert dungeons if you want to raid and its obtainable only in game.
and btw by buying REX (same as EvE's PLEX) and convert it to credits, you can buy anything from cash shop with in game currency.
^This
Any other argument is invalid.
You can get paid to do that? Wish I knew that a long time ago
If any game gives you the option to buy equipment that gives your character an ingame bonus to statistics, that's where they step over the 'pay to win' line, no matter how small said statistics are. You should not be allowed to buy actual equipment, ever.
Microtransactions should be cosmetic stuff only, IMO. Boosters are pushing it, especially if they give ludicrous bonuses (ie; attain something in 10 seconds vs 8 hours with far, far more rewards attached to it. Yes, I'm looking at you Neverwinter).
Although i agree with you that selling gear of any kind is pretty lame, making the argument that its pay 2 win is pretty far fetched in this instance.
I raided heavily in both original and expansion in rift, and i can assure you the gear that you can buy in the store is not pre raid gear.
The gear is the equivalent to what drops in the initial level 60 dungeons, and can be bought by level 60 dungeon tokens. Its also the blue non upgraded gear. This gear is extremely easy to get, i mean EXTREMELY EASY.
The way the expansion was designed is that you got the Blue con dungeon gear, then you had to spend additional dungeon tokens to upgrade that blue stuff to purple con dungeon gear. The purple con dungeon gear is pre raid gear.
Im not a fan of it, and FYI i quit playing Rift before the F2P fiasco (even though i paid a year in advance), but in reality it isnt a huge deal in the grand scheme of things.
The other thing you have to consider is Rift, especially with the changes in the expansion regarding macros and most abilities being instant rather than a recast timer means that player skill has a MUCH larger affect on DPS than gear. I regularly out DPS'd guys with 600 more atk power than me by 20-30% on my warrior because they were mediocre players.
Rift's raids are also very unforgiving (compared to WOW), the DPS checks are harsh, they're basically set at about 85% of the max DPS a person can do. SO, i.e. you need your 14 DPS'ers to average 10k dps each, the best person might do 12k dps, which means you can only have a mediocre player doing 8k and still make up for it.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
People threw a shit fit about being able to buy building plans in GW2, but Trion apparently can do no wrong. lol Double standards ahoy.
I just dont understand why people are so surprised about this. Its pretty much part and parcel of most F2P games. The ones that DONT sell gear and shit are the minority.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
I agree. I really don't see the problem in EITHER game. I may not play Rift, but I think the idea is a sound one.
RIFT IS PAY TO WIN!!! TRION GREED HAS RUINED A ONCE GREAT GAME!!!
So I get on the Rift Forums and I post a message about being frustrated that with the new Nightmare Tides, the Pay to Win has gotten even worse. Crafters have totally gotten screwed in that the gear they can make is nothing compared to the gear you can get if you purchase Nightmare Tides for $25.00. My post got deleted. I reposted it and was more "delicate" and asked the mods to please not delete this post as I read the terms of use and was careful not to violate them. My account got banned for "Discussing Moderation".
No matter how you look at it, Trion is working very hard to make their Pay to Win game more Pay to Win AND working just as hard at censoring any discussion about them doing it.
It's bad enough that they are destroying what used to be a great game for no other reason than greed, but censoring people's objections is both unethical and counter-productive to their own goals. This kind of offensive actions is sending good, loyal players away and rather than entice them back with an actual level playing field which is what true gamers are looking for, they just gut the wallets of the few stragglers that don't mind shelling out money for achievement instead of earning it the way it was meant to be earned.
Shame on you Trion. You have lost yet another fan, another gamer and you will not receive another red cent from me until you change the game back so there is a level playing field. Say NO to Pay to Win!!!
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
It is true that Trion Worlds is not locking anything necessary strictly behind a real world price tag wall. But, even so, they are forcing the player to choose between doing increasingly massive grinds and paying fee(s) to circumvent the said grinds, piece-by-piece.
In this sense, Rift is increasingly pressuring people to buy items from the Rift Store. I call this philosophy of game design "Pay to Skip Grinding (PTSG)". And this philosophy of game design is just as bad as P2W, just in the different way of using the limitations of your own willpower to grind as "the wall" in this case.
Now, perhaps this wouldn't be so bad, if the Rift team knew how to hide the grind behind fun gameplay. But, they don't. To the contrary, they are emphasizing it more and more (i.e. throwing up the Void Stone grind for gear straightforwardly with arbitrary weekly caps and very high equipment prices). PvP and world events were the only truly fun, dynamic activities in which you could forget about academic numbers and procedures and focus on something different in the moment. But, they've all but eliminated PvP in Rift. There are very few incentives to participate in world events now. And none of these activities have evolved into anything greater since Rift: Storm Legion's release and Scott Hartsman's departure as Executive Producer of Rift.
I honestly believe that the Rift team--as Bill "Daglar" Fisher is running it--doesn't know what they are doing at this point. It's just a shotgun blast of bad decision after bad decision from them.
Waiting for: Citadel of Sorcery. Along the way, The Elder Scrolls Online (when it is F2P).
Keeping an eye on: www.play2crush.com (whatever is going on here).
PvP still here, just change no need to grind 2 set of gear. as for MMO there are a grind can't name one not a grind after you get pass there story content end up redoing the same game play.
World pvp been going down form day one with the old system with gear they had limited any new player to take on higher gear player in open world, or even can't defend your self as raider with out pvp gear that would took more time.
Right now players don't know what they want, they want this and that, like what happen a bit ago, player wanted CQ back, there was a few people didn't want it back due to lag it comes with, but now is back lag got worst, and now they don't want CQ.
But I have to agree there are many bad decision, and not a ton of risk.
They got to make up for ArcheAge's stinkness, so what better way than to make some cash with their best title : Rift.
Every move has a reason, they just don't happen just for the fun of it, you just got to dig and find all the answers to your questions.