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AoW: A Great Example of Why Sandbox Titles Don't Work in the West

fat_taddlerfat_taddler Wanaque, NJPosts: 286Member

I just started playing AoW and absolutely love the game so far.   For the first time since the launch of SWG back in 2003,  I have "that feeling" of immersion and wonder that I've been missing for all of these years.  

 

What I also realized during my initial few hours in the game and from reading many forum posts, is that most of the current crop of MMO players have not and probably will not make it through the tutorial aspects of this game.   

 

This is a real shame because there is a ton of potential in this game but it seems that most will never get to see it because the tutorial is "boring." 

 

We see so many people on these forums clamoring for sandbox titles yet there is barely any support for this title.   Why not?   If you are so desperately seeking a sandbox experience, here's a great title to try.   The best part is that it's free, you just need to invest some time and patience to learn the game. 

 

Unfortunately,  I think a lot of players enjoy the idea of a sandbox style game but so far it seems that most can't or won't even play one. 

 

 

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Comments

  • fldashfldash Oklahoma City, OKPosts: 227Member

    This game would be successful if the translations were good and the interface was Western.

    End of story. Has nothing to do with sandboxes not working in the West.

    Former xFire user... I only wanted a game tracker and messenger, not a screenshot taker, video recording, broadcasting piece of bloatware.

  • fat_taddlerfat_taddler Wanaque, NJPosts: 286Member
    Originally posted by fldash

    This game would be successful if the translations were good and the interface was Western.

    End of story. Has nothing to do with sandboxes not working in the West.

    Keep telling yourself that.   There's nothing game-breaking about the translations or the UI.   The UI is very simple and even resembles most themeparks. 

  • BizkitNLBizkitNL NetherlandsPosts: 2,280Member Common
    Originally posted by fat_taddler
    Originally posted by fldash

    This game would be successful if the translations were good and the interface was Western.

    End of story. Has nothing to do with sandboxes not working in the West.

    Keep telling yourself that.   There's nothing game-breaking about the translations or the UI.   The UI is very simple and even resembles most themeparks. 

    Call me silly, but I hardly find AoW a sandbox. They can keep calling it that, but I don't buy it.

    That said, the term "sandbox" is quite....relative?

    10
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,458Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fat_taddler
    most of the current crop of MMO players have not and probably will not make it through the tutorial aspects of this game.   

     This is a real shame because there is a ton of potential in this game but it seems that most will never get to see it because the tutorial is "boring." 

     

    We see so many people on these forums clamoring for sandbox titles yet there is barely any support for this title.   Why not?   If you are so desperately seeking a sandbox experience, here's a great title to try.   The best part is that it's free, you just need to invest some time and patience to learn the game. 

     

    Unfortunately,  I think a lot of players enjoy the idea of a sandbox style game but so far it seems that most can't or won't even play one. 

     

     

    Well, you said it right there, the tutorial is boring.

    This has nothing to do with sandboxes failing in the west. It does have to do with game companies not having a clue about making their games engaging at the start.

    Why should any person assume that the rest of the game is good if the start, the part where the developers "have their audience" sucks?

  • djazzydjazzy louisville, COPosts: 3,578Member
    the low popularity of the game in the "west" has nothing to do with it being a sandbox.
  • mrrshann618mrrshann618 Waseca, MNPosts: 227Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fat_taddler
    Originally posted by fldash

    This game would be successful if the translations were good and the interface was Western.

    End of story. Has nothing to do with sandboxes not working in the West.

    Keep telling yourself that.   There's nothing game-breaking about the translations or the UI.   The UI is very simple and even resembles most themeparks. 

    People find that not unifying colors or being able to hide a piece of gear game breaking. Translations make it difficult at times, I can see how it would be game breaking

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  • jesteralwaysjesteralways ChittagongPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon
    Asking to spend gold(real money) to even post in area chat was what turned me off. any mmo that has restricted social aspect or social aspect blocked behind money is not something i spend my time in. loved the game a lot but that was huge let down for me. did not care to go back after a week.

    i want an open world, no phasing, no instancing.i want meaningful owpvp.i want player driven economy.i want meaningful crafting.i want awesome exploration, a sense of thrill.i want ow housing with a meaningful effect on my entire gameplay experience, not just some instanced crap.i want all of these free of cost, i don't wanna pay you a cent, game devs can eat grass and continue developing game for me.
    Seems like that is the current consensus of western mmo players.

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member
    How is this game a sandbox?  People really butcher that definition.  You can't build in or modify the world in any significant sort of way.

    image

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  • ego13ego13 Reno, NVPosts: 267Member
    Originally posted by fat_taddler
    Originally posted by fldash

    This game would be successful if the translations were good and the interface was Western.

    End of story. Has nothing to do with sandboxes not working in the West.

    Keep telling yourself that.   There's nothing game-breaking about the translations or the UI.   The UI is very simple and even resembles most themeparks. 

    This game is simplistic, boring, and nowhere near engaging.  The characters feel like animated cardboard, the world feels dead, and it relies too much on the "flying" as a gimmick.

     

    This failed in the west because we have higher standards.  Creating a game without ANY focus or reason for being doesn't make it a sandbox, it just means it has no direction. 

     

     

    And really....your name speaks volumes of how much can be expected of you.

    Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.

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  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,998Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fat_taddler

    I just started playing AoW and absolutely love the game so far.   For the first time since the launch of SWG back in 2003,  I have "that feeling" of immersion and wonder that I've been missing for all of these years.  

     

    What I also realized during my initial few hours in the game and from reading many forum posts, is that most of the current crop of MMO players have not and probably will not make it through the tutorial aspects of this game.   

     

    This is a real shame because there is a ton of potential in this game but it seems that most will never get to see it because the tutorial is "boring." 

     

    We see so many people on these forums clamoring for sandbox titles yet there is barely any support for this title.   Why not?   If you are so desperately seeking a sandbox experience, here's a great title to try.   The best part is that it's free, you just need to invest some time and patience to learn the game. 

     

    Unfortunately,  I think a lot of players enjoy the idea of a sandbox style game but so far it seems that most can't or won't even play one. 

     

     

    Well in my case, it seems to be an action oriented combat style game where person (twitch) skills really help to determine who prevails in combat.  (esp in small or one on one situations).

    At my age I lack those sorts of skills, and have so little play time I can never really get better. Since that would clearly put my at the very bottom of the competition scale, (as opposed to my normal 50% tier in the right game) I'm just not interested in the title, no matter how sand box like it is.

    I've read some of the posts bc has put out and sounds really great, but still not for me.

    As for the suggestion that to try it is "just a littl bit of time", one learns at my age that all bits of free time are very precious and rare, and I really can't take the time just to give it a whirl and learn it when I'm not expecting it to be for me.

    Hey, took me almost 3 years after first hearing about EVE before I gave it a shot, maybe one day I'll change my view on this title.

     

     

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
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  • fat_taddlerfat_taddler Wanaque, NJPosts: 286Member
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by fat_taddler
    most of the current crop of MMO players have not and probably will not make it through the tutorial aspects of this game.   

     This is a real shame because there is a ton of potential in this game but it seems that most will never get to see it because the tutorial is "boring." 

     

    We see so many people on these forums clamoring for sandbox titles yet there is barely any support for this title.   Why not?   If you are so desperately seeking a sandbox experience, here's a great title to try.   The best part is that it's free, you just need to invest some time and patience to learn the game. 

     

    Unfortunately,  I think a lot of players enjoy the idea of a sandbox style game but so far it seems that most can't or won't even play one. 

     

     

    Well, you said it right there, the tutorial is boring.

    This has nothing to do with sandboxes failing in the west. It does have to do with game companies not having a clue about making their games engaging at the start.

    Why should any person assume that the rest of the game is good if the start, the part where the developers "have their audience" sucks?

    You prove my point, thank you.    You want instant gratification from your games which unfortunately doesn't usually happen with sandbox style games. 

  • ego13ego13 Reno, NVPosts: 267Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by fat_taddler

    I just started playing AoW and absolutely love the game so far.   For the first time since the launch of SWG back in 2003,  I have "that feeling" of immersion and wonder that I've been missing for all of these years.  

     

    What I also realized during my initial few hours in the game and from reading many forum posts, is that most of the current crop of MMO players have not and probably will not make it through the tutorial aspects of this game.   

     

    This is a real shame because there is a ton of potential in this game but it seems that most will never get to see it because the tutorial is "boring." 

     

    We see so many people on these forums clamoring for sandbox titles yet there is barely any support for this title.   Why not?   If you are so desperately seeking a sandbox experience, here's a great title to try.   The best part is that it's free, you just need to invest some time and patience to learn the game. 

     

    Unfortunately,  I think a lot of players enjoy the idea of a sandbox style game but so far it seems that most can't or won't even play one. 

     

     

    Well in my case, it seems to be an action oriented combat style game where person (twitch) skills really help to determine who prevails in combat.  (esp in small or one on one situations).

    At my age I lack those sorts of skills, and have so little play time I can never really get better. Since that would clearly put my at the very bottom of the competition scale, (as opposed to my normal 50% tier in the right game) I'm just not interested in the title, no matter how sand box like it is.

    I've read some of the posts bc has put out and sounds really great, but still not for me.

    As for the suggestion that to try it is "just a littl bit of time", one learns at my age that all bits of free time are very precious and rare, and I really can't take the time just to give it a whirl and learn it when I'm not expecting it to be for me.

    Hey, took me almost 3 years after first hearing about EVE before I gave it a shot, maybe one day I'll change my view on this title.

     

     

     

    While I wholeheartedly agree that this game isn't worth even a little bit of time, if you're "so old" shouldn't you be retired and have plenty of time?

     

    You have nearly 17k posts on here, seems like you have plenty of time you aren't taking of advantage of in-game.

     

    Like I said, though, I completely agree that this game isn't worth ANY amount of time, I was mad I wasted the bandwidth to download it and I have no limits on that.

    Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.

    image

  • CthulhuPuffsCthulhuPuffs Henderson, NVPosts: 363Member Common

    AoW is a great example of why sucky games dont work in the west.

    It has nothing to do with sandbox.

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  • ShortyBibleShortyBible Posts: 397Member Uncommon

    I have been playing the game for about a week. From what I have seen so far this is no sandbox.

    Some of the issues I have noticed as of today are:

    I wanted to become VIP, but I only use paypal, and paypal is not an option.

    I like the learning curve , takes some effort to learn the game.

    Company expects you to rent  in game  items for real money, that's a huge turn off for me.

    Too many gold sellers.

     

    I plan to continue to explore and learn the game casually, but I am guessing that I will be fodder for the VIPs.

  • AlamarethAlamareth Cincinnati, OHPosts: 570Member
    Originally posted by jesteralways
    Asking to spend gold(real money) to even post in area chat was what turned me off. any mmo that has restricted social aspect or social aspect blocked behind money is not something i spend my time in. loved the game a lot but that was huge let down for me. did not care to go back after a week.

    This is what kills the game, people that spout of nonsense without bothering to test the game to see if what they are saying is actually nonsense.

    Area chat is free - it's called "scene".  What you are talking about is world chat, which costs 10L (cheap).  This is hardly the first MMO to have a price associated to server wide chat.  It's a good idea, because it discourages worldwide spam.

    So far the leading complaints about the game:

    1) Boring tutorial.

    2) Renting fashion clothing from the item mall.

    3) UI is "unclean".

    All three are pretty ridiculous.  The UI and translations are NOT gamebreaking.  They ARE a weebit confusing.  The UI has a ton of windows because it's difficult to streamline all of the different functions in neat cascading windows.  Could it be better?  Yeah.  Does it ruin game experience?  No way.

    People that complain about renting fashion from a cash shop can jump off a cliff for all I care.  'Nough said.

    The tutorial is boring, I'll give you that.  However, it throws just a MASSIVE amount of info at you in about 30 minutes.  It's better to learn the game organically - ie. testing yourself and talking to others.  I don't think the tutorial will ever be good in this game, even with 100% proper translations.  It's just too complicated to learn via text, you have to experience the world.

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member
    The game might be good but the setting doesn't really interest me.
  • oGMooGMo Seattle, WAPosts: 89Member

    This seemed pretty neat (other than the highly questionably cash-rental shop), but the main reason I didn't make it more than about 10 minutes in this game is no mouse invert. Such a trivial thing, but makes it unplayable. How can a modern game lack such?

    That said the PCs-become-NPCs thing seemed like a neat idea, though. Shame more games don't do that .. would make them feel more populated. Kidnapping system optional.

  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYPosts: 480Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by fat_taddler
    most of the current crop of MMO players have not and probably will not make it through the tutorial aspects of this game.   

     This is a real shame because there is a ton of potential in this game but it seems that most will never get to see it because the tutorial is "boring." 

     

    We see so many people on these forums clamoring for sandbox titles yet there is barely any support for this title.   Why not?   If you are so desperately seeking a sandbox experience, here's a great title to try.   The best part is that it's free, you just need to invest some time and patience to learn the game. 

     

    Unfortunately,  I think a lot of players enjoy the idea of a sandbox style game but so far it seems that most can't or won't even play one. 

     

     

    Well, you said it right there, the tutorial is boring.

    This has nothing to do with sandboxes failing in the west. It does have to do with game companies not having a clue about making their games engaging at the start.

    Why should any person assume that the rest of the game is good if the start, the part where the developers "have their audience" sucks?

    Let you in on a secret......its up to the players to make the game engaging in a sandbox.

     

     

  • deniterdeniter LappeenrantaPosts: 806Member Uncommon

    The moment i realised this game had an 'auto-walk' feature, i quit and uninstalled. I mean, when you click the name of an npc in your quest log and your toon starts to walk to him/her automatically. Every crappy and cheap asian f2p mmo has this feature and AoW is not an exception.

    Age of Wushu, a sandbox? Yeah, right..

  • AlamarethAlamareth Cincinnati, OHPosts: 570Member

    Oh, and the mouse inversion people don't know how to use computers.  You can freaking do that with a 3rd party program, so WHY is it a complaint about the game.  If it matters to you that much, you'll figure it out - I have faith in the MMO gamer's ability to figure these things out themselves.

    EDIT:

    Auto-walk is damn helpful in finding NPCs in this game (of which there are thousands).  Perhaps this kills immersion a bit, but I'll take functionality over immersion any day of the week.

    I don't see why an auto-walk meta immediately disqualifies AoW from sand box status.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,458Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fat_taddler
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by fat_taddler
    most of the current crop of MMO players have not and probably will not make it through the tutorial aspects of this game.   

     This is a real shame because there is a ton of potential in this game but it seems that most will never get to see it because the tutorial is "boring." 

     

    We see so many people on these forums clamoring for sandbox titles yet there is barely any support for this title.   Why not?   If you are so desperately seeking a sandbox experience, here's a great title to try.   The best part is that it's free, you just need to invest some time and patience to learn the game. 

     

    Unfortunately,  I think a lot of players enjoy the idea of a sandbox style game but so far it seems that most can't or won't even play one. 

     

     

    Well, you said it right there, the tutorial is boring.

    This has nothing to do with sandboxes failing in the west. It does have to do with game companies not having a clue about making their games engaging at the start.

    Why should any person assume that the rest of the game is good if the start, the part where the developers "have their audience" sucks?

    You prove my point, thank you.    You want instant gratification from your games which unfortunately doesn't usually happen with sandbox style games. 

    No I don't prove your point.

    There is a difference between sitting down and  playing a game and being slowly drawn into its world and game systems and sitting down to a lackluster game that, at the start, doesn't draw you in at all.

    Have you ever watched Wagner's Ring Cycle? Well I have. All four opras take about 15 hours.

    and I sat through every one. Is that instant gratification? Could you do it? Not many can. Why could I do it? Becuse it was good. Because the music and story draw you in and that particular perfromance had amazing singers.

    Have you ever heard someone leave a long movie and say "wow, that movie was three hours, it didn't feel like it." Why? Because the movie did a good job at pacing, at engaging the viewer.

    You might have also heard some people say "omg that movie was 2 hours and it was too long. Because the movie didnt do a good job.

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member
    I wouldn't call the combat action either.  Sure, it has the rock/paper/scissors approach to combat similar to Mabinogi that relies a bit on reaction time, but it's no where near the level of a good action combat game.  It's sandwiched in my opinion somewhere between the slow "combat simulator" type combat system and an action combat game.  You don't need amazing reaction speed to play this game, and even someone who is bad at action combat should be able to pick it up and play without issue.  From what I've seen it's easier to play than WoW for example, which is by no means an action combat game.

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  • AlamarethAlamareth Cincinnati, OHPosts: 570Member
    Originally posted by AIMonster
    I wouldn't call the combat action either.  Sure, it has the rock/paper/scissors approach to combat similar to Mabinogi that relies a bit on reaction time, but it's no where near the level of a good action combat game.  It's sandwiched in my opinion somewhere between the slow "combat simulator" type combat system and an action combat game.  You don't need amazing reaction speed to play this game, and even someone who is bad at action combat should be able to pick it up and play without issue.  From what I've seen it's easier to play than WoW for example, which is by no means an action combat game.

    A BIT on reaction time?  You sir, have not experienced combat in AoW.

    It's twitchy as heck, to a point where it makes lag all important in being a competitive PvP'er.

    I usually see people complain about the auto-target.  It depends on the set, plenty of sets require pretty careful aiming. 

  • dar_es_balatdar_es_balat Oakland, CAPosts: 438Member

    Age of Wushu is not a sandbox.

    Just because some site tells you its a sandbox does not mean that it is.   So what if you can learn skills from different classes?   You have to essentially play *as that class* in order to use those skills, if even for a few moments.    When you use a skill from a different class tree in combat you are locked out of all similar skills from different classes for a length of time so great that should you try any maneuver like that in PvP youd basically be dead before your next attack.

    Age of Wushu is a theme park MMORPG with 30 day limits on most items procured through the cash shop in the game.  Even the bag extensions have time limits.

    You want to know why it doesnt work in the west?

    Because westerners dont want to pay their hard earned money for limited time crap.  They dont want to rent their outfit.  Theyd rather pay more and own it.

    As for your initial point, that Sandbox games dont work in the west.... uh....

    Ultima Online was created in the west.

    Darkfall was too.

    EvE, yep, its a western title.

    Asheron's Call... made in Boston!

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    I'll stop now.

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  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYPosts: 480Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by fat_taddler
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by fat_taddler
    most of the current crop of MMO players have not and probably will not make it through the tutorial aspects of this game.   

     This is a real shame because there is a ton of potential in this game but it seems that most will never get to see it because the tutorial is "boring." 

     

    We see so many people on these forums clamoring for sandbox titles yet there is barely any support for this title.   Why not?   If you are so desperately seeking a sandbox experience, here's a great title to try.   The best part is that it's free, you just need to invest some time and patience to learn the game. 

     

    Unfortunately,  I think a lot of players enjoy the idea of a sandbox style game but so far it seems that most can't or won't even play one. 

     

     

    Well, you said it right there, the tutorial is boring.

    This has nothing to do with sandboxes failing in the west. It does have to do with game companies not having a clue about making their games engaging at the start.

    Why should any person assume that the rest of the game is good if the start, the part where the developers "have their audience" sucks?

    You prove my point, thank you.    You want instant gratification from your games which unfortunately doesn't usually happen with sandbox style games. 

    No I don't prove your point.

    There is a difference between sitting down and  playing a game and being slowly drawn into its world and game systems and sitting down to a lackluster game that, at the start, doesn't draw you in at all.

    Have you ever watched Wagner's Ring Cycle? Well I have. All four opras take about 15 hours.

    and I sat through every one. Is that instant gratification? Could you do it? Not many can. Why could I do it? Becuse it was good. Because the music and story draw you in and that particular perfromance had amazing singers.

    Have you ever heard someone leave a long movie and say "wow, that movie was three hours, it didn't feel like it. Why? Because the movie did a good job at pacing, at engaging the viewer.

    You might have also heard some people say "omg that movie was 2 hours and it was too long. Because the movie didnt do a good job.

    You are still missing the point. In a sandbox you are the one making that 15 hours of content, not watching it.

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