When did being a "Normal MMO Gamer" become "Hardcore Gamer"??

BearKnight

I recently was having a discussion with some self proclaimed "Avid Gamers" from the college I'm going back to for my BA in Computer Science. In this discussion I mentioned the normal stuff you'd do in Everquest, DAOC, and SWG. The response I got was fairly shocking.

 

Mostly along the lines of "Wow, you're a pretty hardcore gamer. I'd have dropped that game in the first couple days".

 

REALLY?? I never even mentioned raiding, epic questing, or any of that stuff. I was ONLY talking about normal grouping for a couple hours, what would normally occur (aggro control, healer responsibilities, etc), and character/equipment development (ie: nothing was handed to me for free from a "quest").

 

I've thought about it, and it makes sense over the past couple of years that being a NORMAL gamer has shifted to becoming "Hardcore", and now "Super Casual" is the new norm perhaps.

 

However, my question is what happened to being a Normal MMO Gamer??? When did the bracket get changed ? Apparently spending more than a couple hours in one play session is now considered excessive by both developers and "Normal" gamers alike.

 

What happened

Apraxis

That is actually the problem nowadays. Because not only computer geeks and nerds play games on computer, but almost everyone else.. they just have a different approach to it.. we call it now a days casual.

Everyone of the former, or everyone who played games at the computer ten years ago is de facto a hardcore player, by todays standards. Take things easy.. Life is a bitch.

VengeSunsoar

Perhaps it isn't them.

I would submit that it is yours and often the people who visit forums whose idea of "normal" is out of line.

Normal is defined by the majority action/attitude.

The majority is casual, therefore anything more than that is by definition more hardcore.  MMO gamers in the past were not normal gamers.

BearKnight

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Perhaps it isn't them.

I would submit that it is yours and often the people who visit forums whose idea of "normal" is out of line.

Normal is defined by the majority action/attitude.

The majority is casual, therefore anything more than that is by definition more hardcore.  MMO gamers in the past were not normal gamers.

I beg to differ. We are the ones that defined the genre pre-2006, and we actually care about the genre beyond a simple pickup & drop attitude. We don't spend 30minutes just to veg and then go off to do whatever mindless task.

 

The majority is almost never right sadly enough. I don't go into the FPS genre demanding people conform to my ways simply because suddenly more people have my mindset. I conform to their mindset out of respec or I leave that genre completely as it doesn't fit my mindset.

 

Simply demanding we allow MMOs, and even the term MMO, to become nothing more that hogwash is insulting. That's my opinion though.

VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by BearKnight

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Perhaps it isn't them.

I would submit that it is yours and often the people who visit forums whose idea of "normal" is out of line.

Normal is defined by the majority action/attitude.

The majority is casual, therefore anything more than that is by definition more hardcore.  MMO gamers in the past were not normal gamers.

I beg to differ. We are the ones that defined the genre pre-2006, and we actually care about the genre beyond a simple pickup & drop attitude. We don't spend 30minutes just to veg and then go off to do whatever mindless task.

 

The majority is almost never right sadly enough. I don't go into the FPS genre demanding people conform to my ways simply because suddenly more people have my mindset. I conform to their mindset out of respec or I leave that genre completely as it doesn't fit my mindset.

 

Simply demanding we allow MMOs, and even the term MMO, to become nothing more that hogwash is insulting. That's my opinion though.

We may have defined the MMO genre, but I'm saying MMO gamers were never normal gamers.  They were always the exception. 

Dibdabs

MMO nerds use the term "hard core" in an attempt to impress other MMO nerds.  There's nothing hard core about sitting on your ass playing a computer game, but it makes them feel better to imagine there is.  

Muke

Originally posted by Dibdabs
MMO nerds use the term "hard core" in an attempt to impress other MMO nerds.  There's nothing hard core about sitting on your ass playing a computer game, but it makes them feel better to imagine there is.  

No, some of them play the game, get done with it after a hour or so and log off and do something else RL; the hardcore player defines him/herself by overstepping that with devoting MUCH more time to the game then is socially accepted.

 

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nethervoid

Hmm if playing games for 1 hour is a 'normal' gamer, I'd hate to think what counts as casual. lol 15 minutes? hahaha! I can barely log into an MMO and get my bearings in 5 to 10 minutes. People play Farmville longer than 15 minutes.

DamonVile

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Perhaps it isn't them.

I would submit that it is yours and often the people who visit forums whose idea of "normal" is out of line.

Normal is defined by the majority action/attitude.

The majority is casual, therefore anything more than that is by definition more hardcore.  MMO gamers in the past were not normal gamers.

If you define normal by what the majority do then no one is normal. Break anyone down and they're not normal. They may do some things that are considered normal but everyone has something about them that isn't. So how can normal be the majority.

Normal may be the perception of majority, like a normal person only plays games one hr a week but among gamers that isn't normal. I don't think trying to define normal is all that productive...less so when you include non-gamers in your definition. The larger the group you try and include the less realistic normal becomes.

Off topic but...when you call someone else hardcore, it can be funny or even a compliment depending on the situation. When someone calls himself hardcore, that's point and laugh worthy.

VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by DamonVile

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Perhaps it isn't them.

I would submit that it is yours and often the people who visit forums whose idea of "normal" is out of line.

Normal is defined by the majority action/attitude.

The majority is casual, therefore anything more than that is by definition more hardcore.  MMO gamers in the past were not normal gamers.

If you define normal by what the majority do then no one is normal. Break anyone down and they're not normal. They may do some things that are considered normal but everyone has something about them that isn't. So how can normal be the majority.

Normal may be the perception of majority, like a normal person only plays games one hr a week but among gamers that isn't normal. I don't think trying to define normal is all that productive...less so when you include non-gamers in your definition. The larger the group you try and include the less realistic normal becomes.

Off topic but...when you call someone else hardcore, it can be funny or even a compliment depending on the situation. When someone calls himself hardcore, that's point and laugh worthy.

Everyone may have some specific peculiarities, but no, there are behaviors that fall within a range that the majority of people do.  That is what is identified as normal.

and I would say that that is normal among gamers (whatever that number is) however it is not among mmo gamers, but IMO mmogamers were never "normal" gamers, they were the outliers.  But with more and more casual friendly MMO's that is changing.

Dzone

I thought hard core gamers where the ones who didn't have a job and lived at home and played at least 10 hours every day, but i got like 40 hours a week i can put into a game if i really get into it. That and i work a full-time job. Guss im considerd hardcore now?

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

_redruM_

Originally posted by Muke

Originally posted by Dibdabs
MMO nerds use the term "hard core" in an attempt to impress other MMO nerds.  There's nothing hard core about sitting on your ass playing a computer game, but it makes them feel better to imagine there is.  

No, some of them play the game, get done with it after a hour or so and log off and do something else RL; the hardcore player defines him/herself by overstepping that with devoting MUCH more time to the game then is socially accepted.

 

Can we come to some kind of a consensus as to what "hardcore" means?

I only have an hour or two to play each day, and I'm usually too busy on the weekends. Does that mean I'm casual?

On the other hand, I enjoy games with deep and complex systems for character progression, open world pvp, sandbox elements, and dislike having my hand held while being railroaded into theme park quest grinds. Does that mean I'm hardcore?

People need to figure out if the two are distinguished by time invested, or by the type of game preferred.

Nephelai

Originally posted by BearKnight

I recently was having a discussion with some self proclaimed "Avid Gamers" from the college I'm going back to for my BA in Computer Science. In this discussion I mentioned the normal stuff you'd do in Everquest, DAOC, and SWG. The response I got was fairly shocking.

 

Mostly along the lines of "Wow, you're a pretty hardcore gamer. I'd have dropped that game in the first couple days".

 

REALLY?? I never even mentioned raiding, epic questing, or any of that stuff. I was ONLY talking about normal grouping for a couple hours, what would normally occur (aggro control, healer responsibilities, etc), and character/equipment development (ie: nothing was handed to me for free from a "quest").

 

I've thought about it, and it makes sense over the past couple of years that being a NORMAL gamer has shifted to becoming "Hardcore", and now "Super Casual" is the new norm perhaps.

 

However, my question is what happened to being a Normal MMO Gamer??? When did the bracket get changed ? Apparently spending more than a couple hours in one play session is now considered excessive by both developers and "Normal" gamers alike.

 

What happened

People confusing time with the term hardcore is what happened.

 

To me, a hardcore gamer is someone that is a great player who defeats the highest levels possible not someone who syncs their life into something they are mediocre at. If you look at the world first Guilds in WoW for example those guys raid pretty much every night on the release of each xpac and then unsub or drastically cut back  as soon as they kill the final boss.

 

On the other hand, some mediocre person that spends 5 nights a week running LFR or knocking his/her head against normal modes for a year is hardly hardcore - they are people that have there aspirations confused with their ability.

 

 

 

 

Zuvielify

It happened when we all grew up and got real lives. 

 

When I was 19, I had all the time in the world to "Hardcore" game. This generation has moved on. "Hardcore" is relative.

Purutzil

"What, you had to work for gratification (even if it felt vastly better), that is hardcore, I rather stuff handed to me"

 

Pretty much... thus why players not only are worst, but the 'reward' in games has practically vanished. Its a shame I so rarely ever get a satisfaction for accomplishing anything in an MMo anymore.

Velocinox

Originally posted by Purutzil

"What, you had to work for gratification (even if it felt vastly better), that is hardcore, I rather stuff handed to me"

 

Pretty much... thus why players not only are worst, but the 'reward' in games has practically vanished. Its a shame I so rarely ever get a satisfaction for accomplishing anything in an MMo anymore.

That is lack of self-discipline, not poor game design.

If you truly want a challenge from a game you can provide it yourself, you don't have to wait for the developers.

For example, play MMO PvP and make a decision to delete your character whenever he is defeated. Set a goal of ten kills. Did you make it? Congratulations you accomplished something difficult. Now go for 20, 50, 100... If you think it is casual, or easy to get to 100 kills in MMO PvP when any death deletes your character then it isn't difficulty you are searching for.

Or did you want your difficulty flagged on the server so you can brag about it? Because that isn't hardcore, it's just stroking your ego.

 

WhiteLantern

Not to be too rude here, but it sounds to me like you have a couple of buddies who don't play like you do (or are idiots, your hardcore comment wasn't a direct quote) and you've equated that to a paradigm shift.

 

X+Y = applesauce

Vocadi

 What constitutes a hardcore player? Time spent or some unmeasurable achievement in gear or rank? I feel like games have such a short progression path these days that it eliminates the need or want for hardcore number crunching and microgaming. With just a modicum of time spent, you end up maxing your character and reaching end game with little learning curve or hardship involved.

Instigator-Jones

It would seem that the gaming crowd is broken down into Time spent, Hubris, and Knowledge that define "Hardcore" vs. "Casual".

 

The time spent crowd seems to think it's how long your butt has been in the chair as you click-click-click away at some virtual task (i.e. the higher number [time] wins)

 

The Hubris crowd seems to think that you should be defined by your gear score, arena rating, or some such nonsense (i.e. the higher number [score] wins) that only shows that a) you've been lucky enough to have hit the right keys at the right time, b) you're knowledgeable in the game(s) you play and know how to work the system, or c) you just spent enough time grinding on the game to get the gear/stat you desire.

 

The Knowledge crowd would rather prove their Hardcore-ness by telling everyone what they know and why you should do as they say (i.e. the higher number [facts] wins).

 

To all these, I say Bullocks. Shut-up and play; enjoy the game, socialize, and push the developers to provide us with content to enjoy. Putting players into little boxes and labeling them 'hardcore', 'casual', 'super-uber casual', 'super-uber-duper casual' is just plain stupid. Doing so only opens the door for verbal conflict, testifying who has the bigger stick in the playground. 

 

 

rockin_ufo

Why can't I just be an MMO player who enjoys the game I play?

Instigator-Jones

Originally posted by Robokapp

Originally posted by rockin_ufo
Why can't I just be an MMO player who enjoys the game I play?

because we're human. we like to implify information to process it faster.

 

let me give you an example:

 

how would a robot drive ?

"appears road makes a 35 degrees turn."

"turning wheel to correspond to 35 degrees".

"calculating difference between new angle and desired angle".

"adjusting steering to counter new angular difference".

repeat in a continuous feedback loop until angle difference equalz nearly zero.

 

how does a human drive ?

" ???" "

you never think "i'm going to turn a half-circle of the wheel, then see where I'm at."

you just...do it. you trivialized driving information so far that it requires no thinking.

 

similarly...in MMOs.

 

this player...who is he ? so many unknowns. I have no idea. but maybe I can guess. let's see... 2500 stamina, a pvp rating of 1550, has 9 kills and 5 wipes on the last oss of this raid, a curious choice of helm...he's about my level.

 

@Jones: You can call me "The Big Sausage".

 

Lol... whut?

And from that I mean... whut?

IceAge

Originally posted by BearKnight

I recently was having a discussion with some self proclaimed "Avid Gamers" from the college I'm going back to for my BA in Computer Science. In this discussion I mentioned the normal stuff you'd do in Everquest, DAOC, and SWG. The response I got was fairly shocking.

 

Mostly along the lines of "Wow, you're a pretty hardcore gamer. I'd have dropped that game in the first couple days".

 

REALLY?? I never even mentioned raiding, epic questing, or any of that stuff. I was ONLY talking about normal grouping for a couple hours, what would normally occur (aggro control, healer responsibilities, etc), and character/equipment development (ie: nothing was handed to me for free from a "quest").

 

I've thought about it, and it makes sense over the past couple of years that being a NORMAL gamer has shifted to becoming "Hardcore", and now "Super Casual" is the new norm perhaps.

 

However, my question is what happened to being a Normal MMO Gamer??? When did the bracket get changed ? Apparently spending more than a couple hours in one play session is now considered excessive by both developers and "Normal" gamers alike.

 

What happened

Yea well, whoever told you that you are a "hardcore" gamer, because you spend few-several hours in one play session, are the ones who point finger to a "hardcore" gamer, when they are hardcore staying on facebook with hours, hi5, tweeter and other sites like this. But hey, it's ALRIGHT to spend hours and hours on such sites, but somehow, it's not ok to spend it on a game. 

I would ignore such people, as if I ask them what do they do in the free time, they say that they play "farm vile" , and other facebook games, and when I ask them what's the difference between my games and their games, they are like ... "it is......" , and no other explication !

deamian

Using the term "Hardcore" to describe pushing keys and playing a video game is about as stupid as saying you are a hardcore dishwasher.. Unless you are saving lives via brain surgery, military, fighting fires or any other people putting their life on the line...get over yourself.

 

General statement, not aimed at anyone thanks enjoy your games.

AIMonster

I wonder what these people consider players who actually played those old school MMOs "hardcore".  I still consider the following:

Casual  - Less than 10hrs a week

Semi-Hardcore - 10-40 hrs a week

Hardcore - 40+ hours a week