Originally posted by Zeppelin4I'm not sure why anyone would think that pvp didn't drive away customers in UO. Look at the history of the game and see how they kept punishing pvp with changes to the game to the point where stat loss was introduced and pvp was for the most part dead except for the very hardcore. The problem is by this time when they got it under control everyone had left for EQ.
I see you have no clue whatsoever what happened to UO.Age of Shadows was introduced feb 2003 and it made UO to a WoW game. Just about all felucca players stopped playing and that can seen on the subscriber numbers that went downhill from AoS.I was there and saw myself what happened.Making the best ever PvP game to a WoW copy was what really removed subscribers from the game.
Apparently you have no idea of the history of the game you profess to know so much about. 1UP.com Article on History of UO - Reference drop in Felucca population UOForums.com - Scroll down to Belanos' post - Reference player preferences in regard to rule sets Escapist Magazine - Reference drop in Felucca population Finally there's just the logic of the world doubling in size having an impact on the player population on both continents. I have no explanation for your personal experiences, other than reality doesn't agree with you.
Having own experience say alot more then quoting players that might be totally unaware of the total number of subscribers and the numbers that play felucca and the number that play trammel. What shard you played on might also differ alot. Drachenfelds for example had lower population then Europe.
My reference is playing from beta to april 2003. I knew all PvP players on Europe shard.
Those players continued to play on felucca after trammel and they left the game after Age of Shadows february 2003. So when it comes to my shard i am right, how it was on other shards might have been a different matter.
UO becoming just another WoW game was what removed all those subscribers in felucca from the game. This is something most people arent aware of. Changing a superb PvP game into WoW wasnt that smart move EA thought it should be.
Here you can see the number of subscribers in UO over time -
Here you can see for yourself that my point of view fit right in with the numbers of subscribers, your view isnt accurate at all. Age of Shadows was the gamebreaker for PvP players and that isnt strange at all since the game became a carebear one with insurance and itemization.
And ask yourself this - why should the PvP players leave the better PvP game UO became after trammel was introduced? I am talking about UO Renaissance that was way, way better then pretrammel PvP. That just not make sence.
UO becaming WoW with Age of Shadows on the other hand left felucca a deserted area. I seem to have more experience then you from UO and my logic is superior yours.
Have to ask, did you even play UO?
It wouldn't surprise me if AoS drove out PvP players, given how it has been described.* I'm not talking about PvP players leaving the game. I'm talking about the PvE players leaving Felucca for Trammel.
The total number of subscribers doesn't give any indication of how the player population split between the two rule sets. What we do have are repeated references to the population of Felucca dropping and repeated references to most of the population playing in Trammel from people who not only played the game, but interviewed Raph Koster and Richard Garriott. The PvP players didn't move, everyone else did and most new players went to Trammel for the relaxed PvP rule set.
History is informing Richard Garriott's decisions with SotA. The game doesn't need full loot or stealing. The game doesn't even need always on PvP. The OP's premise is false.
* It doesn't surprise me that a lot of players would leave UO, regardless of whether they were PvP or PvE players. Why play something that's not as good at being WoW as WoW is? Especially with WoW sitting right there, ready to play. That's something else we can learn from history. Don't make dramatic changes to a game's game play, the players probably won't like it and it probably won't bring in a lot of new players.
Many new players joined the PvP in felucca after trammel. How many? Hard to say but i saw loads of new players entering felucca after trammel and after Age of shadows i saw +10000 on some of the bigger freeshards.
Trammel was a salvation for the PvE players and Age of Shadows was the final kill of felucca.
I'm not talking about what the game need, im talking about UO 2. That game would have alot more followers then SotA have today.
Originally posted by Aragon100 Originally posted by aRtFuLThinGOriginally posted by Aragon100Originally posted by aRtFuLThinGOriginally posted by DavisFlightOriginally posted by darker70Originally posted by Skooma2Originally posted by flizzerYou can have this as long as I get a completely PvE server. If the only way I can experience this game is with the PvP gank crowd, then I would pass.
+1 +1 to Infinity How about we all stop acting like children and realize that there is a way to have open PvP without their being open gank squads "ruining" the game? Thats just as bad as people who say MMOs with no PvP are useless. At least PvP MMO gamers usually know what they're talking about, but the PvE crowd always seems to speak from total ignorance.Why force your view on someone else? Some people just don't like the idea at all regardless of justification.There will always be people who don't like a game with any element of pvp regardless of reason, just like there will always be people who don't like games with pve servers.Let them be. Freedom of choice.What wrong with your reasoning is that the PvE crowd want SotA PvP to fit them and not the PvP crowd. So PvP players will leave andseek a game that isnt infected by PvE players demands.They have their open PvE and still they want to destroy what the PvP crowd was hoping for.I think that's more to do with whether the developer is willing to stick to their guns or not, not so much the playerbase.If the develop chooses money or inclusionism over their original/intented vision I don't think there is anything any of us can do - and if they choose money first over fun it won't ended up being a good game anyways, regardless of how good the source material is (swtor or Neverwinter anyone?)It is both. I believe they adapt the SotA PvP game to please the PvE crowd.
SotA is a game, not a PvP game. PvP and PvE players will never see each other. PvE players can't be all up in arms about the PvP game because they'll never participate in it. PvP players can't be all mad that PvE players are participating in PvP because they will never see them. Everyone will get to do what they want. I'm not sure why anyone who's into PvP would have a reason to complain about this.
Here's a description of the Online Play modes available.
Shroud of the Avatar can be played online and offline. Offline you connect once to the game for authorisation and that's it. But your character can only be used offline and you won't see any dynamic changes to the world, nor will you see other player's houses nor their items at auction.
Online there are three modes: Single Player Online (SPO), Friends Play Online (FPO) and Open Play Online (OPO).
Single Player Online connects you to the world so you can see the effect other people are having on the world, as well as look at their houses and their items at auction. You won't be visible to other people, though, or be eligible for grouping.
Friends Play Online shows the people you have flagged as friends in the world. It's handy for guilds or role-players who don't want strangers breaking immersion.
Open Play Online is as close as Shroud of the Avatar gets to being an MMO. But you won't see everyone: the server regulates who you see. This is based on a Selevance (social relevance) system that shows people based on "who we believe you will care about", explained tech director Chris Spears in a video update.
It takes into account (probably in order) these things: Friends, guildmates, people you've grouped with, people you've interacted with, people you've sent tells to, people who've set their PVP tag and, finally, character power.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by flizzerYou can have this as long as I get a completely PvE server. If the only way I can experience this game is with the PvP gank crowd, then I would pass.
+1
+1 to Infinity
How about we all stop acting like children and realize that there is a way to have open PvP without their being open gank squads "ruining" the game? Thats just as bad as people who say MMOs with no PvP are useless. At least PvP MMO gamers usually know what they're talking about, but the PvE crowd always seems to speak from total ignorance.
Why force your view on someone else? Some people just don't like the idea at all regardless of justification.There will always be people who don't like a game with any element of pvp regardless of reason, just like there will always be people who don't like games with pve servers.Let them be. Freedom of choice.
What wrong with your reasoning is that the PvE crowd want SotA PvP to fit them and not the PvP crowd. So PvP players will leave andseek a game that isnt infected by PvE players demands.They have their open PvE and still they want to destroy what the PvP crowd was hoping for.
I think that's more to do with whether the developer is willing to stick to their guns or not, not so much the playerbase.If the develop chooses money or inclusionism over their original/intented vision I don't think there is anything any of us can do - and if they choose money first over fun it won't ended up being a good game anyways, regardless of how good the source material is (swtor or Neverwinter anyone?)
It is both. I believe they adapt the SotA PvP game to please the PvE crowd.
SotA is a game, not a PvP game. PvP and PvE players will never see each other. PvE players can't be all up in arms about the PvP game because they'll never participate in it. PvP players can't be all mad that PvE players are participating in PvP because they will never see them. Everyone will get to do what they want. I'm not sure why anyone who's into PvP would have a reason to complain about this.
Here's a description of the Online Play modes available.
Shroud of the Avatar can be played online and offline. Offline you connect once to the game for authorisation and that's it. But your character can only be used offline and you won't see any dynamic changes to the world, nor will you see other player's houses nor their items at auction.
Online there are three modes: Single Player Online (SPO), Friends Play Online (FPO) and Open Play Online (OPO).
Single Player Online connects you to the world so you can see the effect other people are having on the world, as well as look at their houses and their items at auction. You won't be visible to other people, though, or be eligible for grouping.
Friends Play Online shows the people you have flagged as friends in the world. It's handy for guilds or role-players who don't want strangers breaking immersion.
Open Play Online is as close as Shroud of the Avatar gets to being an MMO. But you won't see everyone: the server regulates who you see. This is based on a Selevance (social relevance) system that shows people based on "who we believe you will care about", explained tech director Chris Spears in a video update.
It takes into account (probably in order) these things: Friends, guildmates, people you've grouped with, people you've interacted with, people you've sent tells to, people who've set their PVP tag and, finally, character power.
You just dont get it.
PvP will be infected by the PvE players demand.
If you followed PvP threads you can read all about it.
No risk vs reward and no consequences. That is not what the PvP crowd want but im positive developers will listen to the carebears and give them their version of PvP.
The real PvP:ers have to adapt once again to please the carebears.
Originally posted by flizzerYou can have this as long as I get a completely PvE server. If the only way I can experience this game is with the PvP gank crowd, then I would pass.
+1
+1 to Infinity
How about we all stop acting like children and realize that there is a way to have open PvP without their being open gank squads "ruining" the game? Thats just as bad as people who say MMOs with no PvP are useless. At least PvP MMO gamers usually know what they're talking about, but the PvE crowd always seems to speak from total ignorance.
Why force your view on someone else? Some people just don't like the idea at all regardless of justification.There will always be people who don't like a game with any element of pvp regardless of reason, just like there will always be people who don't like games with pve servers.Let them be. Freedom of choice.
What wrong with your reasoning is that the PvE crowd want SotA PvP to fit them and not the PvP crowd. So PvP players will leave andseek a game that isnt infected by PvE players demands.They have their open PvE and still they want to destroy what the PvP crowd was hoping for.
I think that's more to do with whether the developer is willing to stick to their guns or not, not so much the playerbase.If the develop chooses money or inclusionism over their original/intented vision I don't think there is anything any of us can do - and if they choose money first over fun it won't ended up being a good game anyways, regardless of how good the source material is (swtor or Neverwinter anyone?)
It is both. I believe they adapt the SotA PvP game to please the PvE crowd.
SotA is a game, not a PvP game. PvP and PvE players will never see each other. PvE players can't be all up in arms about the PvP game because they'll never participate in it. PvP players can't be all mad that PvE players are participating in PvP because they will never see them. Everyone will get to do what they want. I'm not sure why anyone who's into PvP would have a reason to complain about this.
Here's a description of the Online Play modes available.
Shroud of the Avatar can be played online and offline. Offline you connect once to the game for authorisation and that's it. But your character can only be used offline and you won't see any dynamic changes to the world, nor will you see other player's houses nor their items at auction.
Online there are three modes: Single Player Online (SPO), Friends Play Online (FPO) and Open Play Online (OPO).
Single Player Online connects you to the world so you can see the effect other people are having on the world, as well as look at their houses and their items at auction. You won't be visible to other people, though, or be eligible for grouping.
Friends Play Online shows the people you have flagged as friends in the world. It's handy for guilds or role-players who don't want strangers breaking immersion.
Open Play Online is as close as Shroud of the Avatar gets to being an MMO. But you won't see everyone: the server regulates who you see. This is based on a Selevance (social relevance) system that shows people based on "who we believe you will care about", explained tech director Chris Spears in a video update.
It takes into account (probably in order) these things: Friends, guildmates, people you've grouped with, people you've interacted with, people you've sent tells to, people who've set their PVP tag and, finally, character power.
You just dont get it.
PvP will be infected by the PvE players demand.
If you followed PvP threads you can read all about it.
No risk vs reward and no consequences. That is not what the PvP crowd want but im positive developers will listen to the carebears and give them their version of PvP.
The real PvP:ers have to adapt once again to please the carebears.
What are you missing bro?
The only thing PvE players demand is the ability to avoid being PKd and PvP. That is accomplished by The magicpvpsliderbarthingy(TM) and problem solved.
PvP will be left for the PvP players to hopefully provide feedback on and structure to their wish.
Originally posted by Aragon100 Originally posted by lizardbonesOriginally posted by Aragon100Originally posted by aRtFuLThinGOriginally posted by Aragon100Originally posted by aRtFuLThinGOriginally posted by DavisFlightOriginally posted by darker70Originally posted by Skooma2Originally posted by flizzerYou can have this as long as I get a completely PvE server. If the only way I can experience this game is with the PvP gank crowd, then I would pass. +1
+1 to Infinity How about we all stop acting like children and realize that there is a way to have open PvP without their being open gank squads "ruining" the game? Thats just as bad as people who say MMOs with no PvP are useless. At least PvP MMO gamers usually know what they're talking about, but the PvE crowd always seems to speak from total ignorance.Why force your view on someone else? Some people just don't like the idea at all regardless of justification.There will always be people who don't like a game with any element of pvp regardless of reason, just like there will always be people who don't like games with pve servers.Let them be. Freedom of choice.What wrong with your reasoning is that the PvE crowd want SotA PvP to fit them and not the PvP crowd. So PvP players will leave andseek a game that isnt infected by PvE players demands.They have their open PvE and still they want to destroy what the PvP crowd was hoping for.I think that's more to do with whether the developer is willing to stick to their guns or not, not so much the playerbase.If the develop chooses money or inclusionism over their original/intented vision I don't think there is anything any of us can do - and if they choose money first over fun it won't ended up being a good game anyways, regardless of how good the source material is (swtor or Neverwinter anyone?)It is both. I believe they adapt the SotA PvP game to please the PvE crowd. SotA is a game, not a PvP game. PvP and PvE players will never see each other. PvE players can't be all up in arms about the PvP game because they'll never participate in it. PvP players can't be all mad that PvE players are participating in PvP because they will never see them. Everyone will get to do what they want. I'm not sure why anyone who's into PvP would have a reason to complain about this. Here's a description of the Online Play modes available. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-03-18-garriotts-shroud-of-the-avatar-multiplayer-explained-dragonlance-author-tracy-hickman-added Here's the relevant text from the article. Shroud of the Avatar can be played online and offline. Offline you connect once to the game for authorisation and that's it. But your character can only be used offline and you won't see any dynamic changes to the world, nor will you see other player's houses nor their items at auction.Online there are three modes: Single Player Online (SPO), Friends Play Online (FPO) and Open Play Online (OPO). Single Player Online connects you to the world so you can see the effect other people are having on the world, as well as look at their houses and their items at auction. You won't be visible to other people, though, or be eligible for grouping.Friends Play Online shows the people you have flagged as friends in the world. It's handy for guilds or role-players who don't want strangers breaking immersion.Open Play Online is as close as Shroud of the Avatar gets to being an MMO. But you won't see everyone: the server regulates who you see. This is based on a Selevance (social relevance) system that shows people based on "who we believe you will care about", explained tech director Chris Spears in a video update.It takes into account (probably in order) these things: Friends, guildmates, people you've grouped with, people you've interacted with, people you've sent tells to, people who've set their PVP tag and, finally, character power.You just dont get it.
PvP will be infected by the PvE players demand.
If you followed PvP threads you can read all about it.
No risk vs reward and no consequences. That is not what the PvP crowd want but im positive developers will listen to the carebears and give them their version of PvP.
The real PvP:ers have to adapt once again to please the carebears.
If there are so few PvP players that their opinion doesn't matter, then yes, they need to adapt, or quit playing. Developers don't just want to make money, they must make money to survive and if that means listening to their largest audience, then so be it.
However, if you'll read closely what their plan is, there's no reason to not have risk and reward in PvP, because the PvE crowd won't be playing the game with the same people as the PvP crowd. The PvE crowd won't have to worry about full loot and they don't have to worry about getting "ganked". It's just not an issue for them because they will never see a PvP player.
The only scenario where the PvP turns "carebear" is if the PvP is going to die from lack of participation and Portalarium needs more players to participate. That would only happen if there are so few PvP players that PvP can't be supported.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by flizzerYou can have this as long as I get a completely PvE server. If the only way I can experience this game is with the PvP gank crowd, then I would pass.
+1
+1 to Infinity
How about we all stop acting like children and realize that there is a way to have open PvP without their being open gank squads "ruining" the game? Thats just as bad as people who say MMOs with no PvP are useless. At least PvP MMO gamers usually know what they're talking about, but the PvE crowd always seems to speak from total ignorance.
Why force your view on someone else? Some people just don't like the idea at all regardless of justification.There will always be people who don't like a game with any element of pvp regardless of reason, just like there will always be people who don't like games with pve servers.Let them be. Freedom of choice.
What wrong with your reasoning is that the PvE crowd want SotA PvP to fit them and not the PvP crowd. So PvP players will leave andseek a game that isnt infected by PvE players demands.They have their open PvE and still they want to destroy what the PvP crowd was hoping for.
I think that's more to do with whether the developer is willing to stick to their guns or not, not so much the playerbase.If the develop chooses money or inclusionism over their original/intented vision I don't think there is anything any of us can do - and if they choose money first over fun it won't ended up being a good game anyways, regardless of how good the source material is (swtor or Neverwinter anyone?)
It is both. I believe they adapt the SotA PvP game to please the PvE crowd.
SotA is a game, not a PvP game. PvP and PvE players will never see each other. PvE players can't be all up in arms about the PvP game because they'll never participate in it. PvP players can't be all mad that PvE players are participating in PvP because they will never see them. Everyone will get to do what they want. I'm not sure why anyone who's into PvP would have a reason to complain about this.
Here's a description of the Online Play modes available.
Shroud of the Avatar can be played online and offline. Offline you connect once to the game for authorisation and that's it. But your character can only be used offline and you won't see any dynamic changes to the world, nor will you see other player's houses nor their items at auction.
Online there are three modes: Single Player Online (SPO), Friends Play Online (FPO) and Open Play Online (OPO).
Single Player Online connects you to the world so you can see the effect other people are having on the world, as well as look at their houses and their items at auction. You won't be visible to other people, though, or be eligible for grouping.
Friends Play Online shows the people you have flagged as friends in the world. It's handy for guilds or role-players who don't want strangers breaking immersion.
Open Play Online is as close as Shroud of the Avatar gets to being an MMO. But you won't see everyone: the server regulates who you see. This is based on a Selevance (social relevance) system that shows people based on "who we believe you will care about", explained tech director Chris Spears in a video update.
It takes into account (probably in order) these things: Friends, guildmates, people you've grouped with, people you've interacted with, people you've sent tells to, people who've set their PVP tag and, finally, character power.
You just dont get it.
PvP will be infected by the PvE players demand.
If you followed PvP threads you can read all about it.
No risk vs reward and no consequences. That is not what the PvP crowd want but im positive developers will listen to the carebears and give them their version of PvP.
The real PvP:ers have to adapt once again to please the carebears.
What are you missing bro?
The only thing PvE players demand is the ability to avoid being PKd and PvP. That is accomplished by The magicpvpsliderbarthingy(TM) and problem solved.
PvP will be left for the PvP players to hopefully provide feedback on and structure to their wish.
Full loot, a risk vs reward PvP game with consequences.
Most PvE players on SotA that might take part in PvP want above taken out of the game. They want SotA PvP to fit there carebear version of PvP.
Originally posted by flizzerYou can have this as long as I get a completely PvE server. If the only way I can experience this game is with the PvP gank crowd, then I would pass. +1
+1 to Infinity
How about we all stop acting like children and realize that there is a way to have open PvP without their being open gank squads "ruining" the game? Thats just as bad as people who say MMOs with no PvP are useless. At least PvP MMO gamers usually know what they're talking about, but the PvE crowd always seems to speak from total ignorance.
Why force your view on someone else? Some people just don't like the idea at all regardless of justification.There will always be people who don't like a game with any element of pvp regardless of reason, just like there will always be people who don't like games with pve servers.Let them be. Freedom of choice.
What wrong with your reasoning is that the PvE crowd want SotA PvP to fit them and not the PvP crowd. So PvP players will leave andseek a game that isnt infected by PvE players demands.They have their open PvE and still they want to destroy what the PvP crowd was hoping for.
I think that's more to do with whether the developer is willing to stick to their guns or not, not so much the playerbase.If the develop chooses money or inclusionism over their original/intented vision I don't think there is anything any of us can do - and if they choose money first over fun it won't ended up being a good game anyways, regardless of how good the source material is (swtor or Neverwinter anyone?)
It is both. I believe they adapt the SotA PvP game to please the PvE crowd.
SotA is a game, not a PvP game. PvP and PvE players will never see each other. PvE players can't be all up in arms about the PvP game because they'll never participate in it. PvP players can't be all mad that PvE players are participating in PvP because they will never see them. Everyone will get to do what they want. I'm not sure why anyone who's into PvP would have a reason to complain about this. Here's a description of the Online Play modes available. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-03-18-garriotts-shroud-of-the-avatar-multiplayer-explained-dragonlance-author-tracy-hickman-added Here's the relevant text from the article. Shroud of the Avatar can be played online and offline. Offline you connect once to the game for authorisation and that's it. But your character can only be used offline and you won't see any dynamic changes to the world, nor will you see other player's houses nor their items at auction.Online there are three modes: Single Player Online (SPO), Friends Play Online (FPO) and Open Play Online (OPO). Single Player Online connects you to the world so you can see the effect other people are having on the world, as well as look at their houses and their items at auction. You won't be visible to other people, though, or be eligible for grouping.Friends Play Online shows the people you have flagged as friends in the world. It's handy for guilds or role-players who don't want strangers breaking immersion.Open Play Online is as close as Shroud of the Avatar gets to being an MMO. But you won't see everyone: the server regulates who you see. This is based on a Selevance (social relevance) system that shows people based on "who we believe you will care about", explained tech director Chris Spears in a video update.It takes into account (probably in order) these things: Friends, guildmates, people you've grouped with, people you've interacted with, people you've sent tells to, people who've set their PVP tag and, finally, character power.
You just dont get it.
PvP will be infected by the PvE players demand.
If you followed PvP threads you can read all about it.
No risk vs reward and no consequences. That is not what the PvP crowd want but im positive developers will listen to the carebears and give them their version of PvP.
The real PvP:ers have to adapt once again to please the carebears.
If there are so few PvP players that their opinion doesn't matter, then yes, they need to adapt, or quit playing. Developers don't just want to make money, they must make money to survive and if that means listening to their largest audience, then so be it.
However, if you'll read closely what their plan is, there's no reason to not have risk and reward in PvP, because the PvE crowd won't be playing the game with the same people as the PvP crowd. The PvE crowd won't have to worry about full loot and they don't have to worry about getting "ganked". It's just not an issue for them because they will never see a PvP player.
The only scenario where the PvP turns "carebear" is if the PvP is going to die from lack of participation and Portalarium needs more players to participate. That would only happen if there are so few PvP players that PvP can't be supported.
Many of the PvP players that wanted a new UO have realized SotA will be a game with a carebear version of PvP. No risk vs reward and no consequences. Full loot that is essential for consequences is most likely out of the game cause the carebears feel it is to harsh penalty for dying.
There is very few active players on SotA forum and very few of them are PvP oldschool UO players. They isnt arround anymore.
Magic system seem to be really retarded, a cardgame where cards (spells) randomly pop up on your screen and you have to select one spell from those cards, you dont decide yourself what spell to throw. Pathetic.
Hardcore PvP players have left the game since it is going carebear. I will wait until we get information on the PvP first and then decide if i want to take part. As it looks today i will not play this game.
Originally posted by flizzerYou can have this as long as I get a completely PvE server. If the only way I can experience this game is with the PvP gank crowd, then I would pass. +1
+1 to Infinity
How about we all stop acting like children and realize that there is a way to have open PvP without their being open gank squads "ruining" the game? Thats just as bad as people who say MMOs with no PvP are useless. At least PvP MMO gamers usually know what they're talking about, but the PvE crowd always seems to speak from total ignorance.
Why force your view on someone else? Some people just don't like the idea at all regardless of justification.There will always be people who don't like a game with any element of pvp regardless of reason, just like there will always be people who don't like games with pve servers.Let them be. Freedom of choice.
What wrong with your reasoning is that the PvE crowd want SotA PvP to fit them and not the PvP crowd. So PvP players will leave andseek a game that isnt infected by PvE players demands.They have their open PvE and still they want to destroy what the PvP crowd was hoping for.
I think that's more to do with whether the developer is willing to stick to their guns or not, not so much the playerbase.If the develop chooses money or inclusionism over their original/intented vision I don't think there is anything any of us can do - and if they choose money first over fun it won't ended up being a good game anyways, regardless of how good the source material is (swtor or Neverwinter anyone?)
It is both. I believe they adapt the SotA PvP game to please the PvE crowd.
SotA is a game, not a PvP game. PvP and PvE players will never see each other. PvE players can't be all up in arms about the PvP game because they'll never participate in it. PvP players can't be all mad that PvE players are participating in PvP because they will never see them. Everyone will get to do what they want. I'm not sure why anyone who's into PvP would have a reason to complain about this. Here's a description of the Online Play modes available. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-03-18-garriotts-shroud-of-the-avatar-multiplayer-explained-dragonlance-author-tracy-hickman-added Here's the relevant text from the article. Shroud of the Avatar can be played online and offline. Offline you connect once to the game for authorisation and that's it. But your character can only be used offline and you won't see any dynamic changes to the world, nor will you see other player's houses nor their items at auction.Online there are three modes: Single Player Online (SPO), Friends Play Online (FPO) and Open Play Online (OPO). Single Player Online connects you to the world so you can see the effect other people are having on the world, as well as look at their houses and their items at auction. You won't be visible to other people, though, or be eligible for grouping.Friends Play Online shows the people you have flagged as friends in the world. It's handy for guilds or role-players who don't want strangers breaking immersion.Open Play Online is as close as Shroud of the Avatar gets to being an MMO. But you won't see everyone: the server regulates who you see. This is based on a Selevance (social relevance) system that shows people based on "who we believe you will care about", explained tech director Chris Spears in a video update.It takes into account (probably in order) these things: Friends, guildmates, people you've grouped with, people you've interacted with, people you've sent tells to, people who've set their PVP tag and, finally, character power.
You just dont get it.
PvP will be infected by the PvE players demand.
If you followed PvP threads you can read all about it.
No risk vs reward and no consequences. That is not what the PvP crowd want but im positive developers will listen to the carebears and give them their version of PvP.
The real PvP:ers have to adapt once again to please the carebears.
If there are so few PvP players that their opinion doesn't matter, then yes, they need to adapt, or quit playing. Developers don't just want to make money, they must make money to survive and if that means listening to their largest audience, then so be it.
However, if you'll read closely what their plan is, there's no reason to not have risk and reward in PvP, because the PvE crowd won't be playing the game with the same people as the PvP crowd. The PvE crowd won't have to worry about full loot and they don't have to worry about getting "ganked". It's just not an issue for them because they will never see a PvP player.
The only scenario where the PvP turns "carebear" is if the PvP is going to die from lack of participation and Portalarium needs more players to participate. That would only happen if there are so few PvP players that PvP can't be supported.
Many of the PvP players that wanted a new UO have realized SotA will be a game with a carebear version of PvP. No risk vs reward and no consequences. Full loot that is essential for consequences is most likely out of the game cause the carebears feel it is to harsh penalty for dying.
There is very few active players on SotA forum and very few of them are PvP oldschool UO players. They isnt arround anymore.
Magic system seem to be really retarded, a cardgame where cards (spells) randomly pop up on your screen and you have to select one spell from those cards, you dont decide yourself what spell to throw. Pathetic.
Hardcore PvP players have left the game since it is going carebear. I will wait until we get information on the PvP first and then decide if i want to take part. As it looks today i will not play this game.
"many" "most likely" "feel"
Yeah, you need to stop thinking and just wait. you are woefully uninformed about SotA and you require more study of it and its community. I have seen one, maybe just two people on that forum claim they would quit if the game offers anything else other than full loot carebear killing for the PKs, and they were just trolls, and one of them was myself.
Originally posted by Aragon100 Many of the PvP players that wanted a new UO have realized SotA will be a game with a carebear version of PvP. No risk vs reward and no consequences. Full loot that is essential for consequences is most likely out of the game cause the carebears feel it is to harsh penalty for dying.There is very few active players on SotA forum and very few of them are PvP oldschool UO players. They isnt arround anymore.Magic system seem to be really retarded, a cardgame where cards (spells) randomly pop up on your screen and you have to select one spell from those cards, you dont decide yourself what spell to throw. Pathetic.Hardcore PvP players have left the game since it is going carebear. I will wait until we get information on the PvP first and then decide if i want to take part. As it looks today i will not play this game.
This only matters if those PvP players are going to be the majority of the players in SotA. It doesn't sound like they are going to be the majority of players. If the majority of the players are going to be "carebears", then the only real option is to get over it or wait for something else to play. In any event, the presence or absence of those features will not determine if the game will fail.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by flizzerYou can have this as long as I get a completely PvE server. If the only way I can experience this game is with the PvP gank crowd, then I would pass. +1
+1 to Infinity
How about we all stop acting like children and realize that there is a way to have open PvP without their being open gank squads "ruining" the game? Thats just as bad as people who say MMOs with no PvP are useless. At least PvP MMO gamers usually know what they're talking about, but the PvE crowd always seems to speak from total ignorance.
Why force your view on someone else? Some people just don't like the idea at all regardless of justification.There will always be people who don't like a game with any element of pvp regardless of reason, just like there will always be people who don't like games with pve servers.Let them be. Freedom of choice.
What wrong with your reasoning is that the PvE crowd want SotA PvP to fit them and not the PvP crowd. So PvP players will leave andseek a game that isnt infected by PvE players demands.They have their open PvE and still they want to destroy what the PvP crowd was hoping for.
I think that's more to do with whether the developer is willing to stick to their guns or not, not so much the playerbase.If the develop chooses money or inclusionism over their original/intented vision I don't think there is anything any of us can do - and if they choose money first over fun it won't ended up being a good game anyways, regardless of how good the source material is (swtor or Neverwinter anyone?)
It is both. I believe they adapt the SotA PvP game to please the PvE crowd.
SotA is a game, not a PvP game. PvP and PvE players will never see each other. PvE players can't be all up in arms about the PvP game because they'll never participate in it. PvP players can't be all mad that PvE players are participating in PvP because they will never see them. Everyone will get to do what they want. I'm not sure why anyone who's into PvP would have a reason to complain about this. Here's a description of the Online Play modes available. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-03-18-garriotts-shroud-of-the-avatar-multiplayer-explained-dragonlance-author-tracy-hickman-added Here's the relevant text from the article. Shroud of the Avatar can be played online and offline. Offline you connect once to the game for authorisation and that's it. But your character can only be used offline and you won't see any dynamic changes to the world, nor will you see other player's houses nor their items at auction.Online there are three modes: Single Player Online (SPO), Friends Play Online (FPO) and Open Play Online (OPO). Single Player Online connects you to the world so you can see the effect other people are having on the world, as well as look at their houses and their items at auction. You won't be visible to other people, though, or be eligible for grouping.Friends Play Online shows the people you have flagged as friends in the world. It's handy for guilds or role-players who don't want strangers breaking immersion.Open Play Online is as close as Shroud of the Avatar gets to being an MMO. But you won't see everyone: the server regulates who you see. This is based on a Selevance (social relevance) system that shows people based on "who we believe you will care about", explained tech director Chris Spears in a video update.It takes into account (probably in order) these things: Friends, guildmates, people you've grouped with, people you've interacted with, people you've sent tells to, people who've set their PVP tag and, finally, character power.
You just dont get it.
PvP will be infected by the PvE players demand.
If you followed PvP threads you can read all about it.
No risk vs reward and no consequences. That is not what the PvP crowd want but im positive developers will listen to the carebears and give them their version of PvP.
The real PvP:ers have to adapt once again to please the carebears.
If there are so few PvP players that their opinion doesn't matter, then yes, they need to adapt, or quit playing. Developers don't just want to make money, they must make money to survive and if that means listening to their largest audience, then so be it.
However, if you'll read closely what their plan is, there's no reason to not have risk and reward in PvP, because the PvE crowd won't be playing the game with the same people as the PvP crowd. The PvE crowd won't have to worry about full loot and they don't have to worry about getting "ganked". It's just not an issue for them because they will never see a PvP player.
The only scenario where the PvP turns "carebear" is if the PvP is going to die from lack of participation and Portalarium needs more players to participate. That would only happen if there are so few PvP players that PvP can't be supported.
Many of the PvP players that wanted a new UO have realized SotA will be a game with a carebear version of PvP. No risk vs reward and no consequences. Full loot that is essential for consequences is most likely out of the game cause the carebears feel it is to harsh penalty for dying.
There is very few active players on SotA forum and very few of them are PvP oldschool UO players. They isnt arround anymore.
Magic system seem to be really retarded, a cardgame where cards (spells) randomly pop up on your screen and you have to select one spell from those cards, you dont decide yourself what spell to throw. Pathetic.
Hardcore PvP players have left the game since it is going carebear. I will wait until we get information on the PvP first and then decide if i want to take part. As it looks today i will not play this game.
"many" "most likely" "feel"
Yeah, you need to stop thinking and just wait. you are woefully uninformed about SotA and you require more study of it and its community. I have seen one, maybe just two people on that forum claim they would quit if the game offers anything else other than full loot carebear killing for the PKs, and they were just trolls, and one of them was myself.
Most writing on forums nowadays want restrictions in different ways when it come to PvP.
Not easy for you to know though since you're banned from forums.
Originally posted by flizzerYou can have this as long as I get a completely PvE server. If the only way I can experience this game is with the PvP gank crowd, then I would pass. +1
+1 to Infinity
How about we all stop acting like children and realize that there is a way to have open PvP without their being open gank squads "ruining" the game? Thats just as bad as people who say MMOs with no PvP are useless. At least PvP MMO gamers usually know what they're talking about, but the PvE crowd always seems to speak from total ignorance.
Why force your view on someone else? Some people just don't like the idea at all regardless of justification.There will always be people who don't like a game with any element of pvp regardless of reason, just like there will always be people who don't like games with pve servers.Let them be. Freedom of choice.
What wrong with your reasoning is that the PvE crowd want SotA PvP to fit them and not the PvP crowd. So PvP players will leave andseek a game that isnt infected by PvE players demands.They have their open PvE and still they want to destroy what the PvP crowd was hoping for.
I think that's more to do with whether the developer is willing to stick to their guns or not, not so much the playerbase.If the develop chooses money or inclusionism over their original/intented vision I don't think there is anything any of us can do - and if they choose money first over fun it won't ended up being a good game anyways, regardless of how good the source material is (swtor or Neverwinter anyone?)
It is both. I believe they adapt the SotA PvP game to please the PvE crowd.
SotA is a game, not a PvP game. PvP and PvE players will never see each other. PvE players can't be all up in arms about the PvP game because they'll never participate in it. PvP players can't be all mad that PvE players are participating in PvP because they will never see them. Everyone will get to do what they want. I'm not sure why anyone who's into PvP would have a reason to complain about this. Here's a description of the Online Play modes available. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-03-18-garriotts-shroud-of-the-avatar-multiplayer-explained-dragonlance-author-tracy-hickman-added Here's the relevant text from the article. Shroud of the Avatar can be played online and offline. Offline you connect once to the game for authorisation and that's it. But your character can only be used offline and you won't see any dynamic changes to the world, nor will you see other player's houses nor their items at auction.Online there are three modes: Single Player Online (SPO), Friends Play Online (FPO) and Open Play Online (OPO). Single Player Online connects you to the world so you can see the effect other people are having on the world, as well as look at their houses and their items at auction. You won't be visible to other people, though, or be eligible for grouping.Friends Play Online shows the people you have flagged as friends in the world. It's handy for guilds or role-players who don't want strangers breaking immersion.Open Play Online is as close as Shroud of the Avatar gets to being an MMO. But you won't see everyone: the server regulates who you see. This is based on a Selevance (social relevance) system that shows people based on "who we believe you will care about", explained tech director Chris Spears in a video update.It takes into account (probably in order) these things: Friends, guildmates, people you've grouped with, people you've interacted with, people you've sent tells to, people who've set their PVP tag and, finally, character power.
You just dont get it.
PvP will be infected by the PvE players demand.
If you followed PvP threads you can read all about it.
No risk vs reward and no consequences. That is not what the PvP crowd want but im positive developers will listen to the carebears and give them their version of PvP.
The real PvP:ers have to adapt once again to please the carebears.
If there are so few PvP players that their opinion doesn't matter, then yes, they need to adapt, or quit playing. Developers don't just want to make money, they must make money to survive and if that means listening to their largest audience, then so be it.
However, if you'll read closely what their plan is, there's no reason to not have risk and reward in PvP, because the PvE crowd won't be playing the game with the same people as the PvP crowd. The PvE crowd won't have to worry about full loot and they don't have to worry about getting "ganked". It's just not an issue for them because they will never see a PvP player.
The only scenario where the PvP turns "carebear" is if the PvP is going to die from lack of participation and Portalarium needs more players to participate. That would only happen if there are so few PvP players that PvP can't be supported.
Many of the PvP players that wanted a new UO have realized SotA will be a game with a carebear version of PvP. No risk vs reward and no consequences. Full loot that is essential for consequences is most likely out of the game cause the carebears feel it is to harsh penalty for dying.
There is very few active players on SotA forum and very few of them are PvP oldschool UO players. They isnt arround anymore.
Magic system seem to be really retarded, a cardgame where cards (spells) randomly pop up on your screen and you have to select one spell from those cards, you dont decide yourself what spell to throw. Pathetic.
Hardcore PvP players have left the game since it is going carebear. I will wait until we get information on the PvP first and then decide if i want to take part. As it looks today i will not play this game.
"many" "most likely" "feel"
Yeah, you need to stop thinking and just wait. you are woefully uninformed about SotA and you require more study of it and its community. I have seen one, maybe just two people on that forum claim they would quit if the game offers anything else other than full loot carebear killing for the PKs, and they were just trolls, and one of them was myself.
Most writing on forums nowadays want restrictions in different ways when it come to PvP.
Not easy for you to know though since you're banned from forums.
As I have stated earlier, the account "InsaneMembrane" is banned from the forums. I am still there.
The magicpvpsliderbarthingy(TM) will solve all issues for all PvP problems by connecting like players to each other. You don't like full loot? No problem, slide that slider bar to non-full-loot and you are all set.
It isn't going overboard though, it isn't like you can say " i dont like seeing people wearing red capes " and have it remove them from your game...
Anyway, most PvPers want full loot head ripping smash fests, most PvEers just want to craft. In the middle is where it will end up meeting, and it will be a much richer PvP than all the padded rooms out there currently. That much has already been made clear from the videos and 2M stretch goal.
Originally posted by flizzerYou can have this as long as I get a completely PvE server. If the only way I can experience this game is with the PvP gank crowd, then I would pass. +1
+1 to Infinity
How about we all stop acting like children and realize that there is a way to have open PvP without their being open gank squads "ruining" the game? Thats just as bad as people who say MMOs with no PvP are useless. At least PvP MMO gamers usually know what they're talking about, but the PvE crowd always seems to speak from total ignorance.
Why force your view on someone else? Some people just don't like the idea at all regardless of justification.There will always be people who don't like a game with any element of pvp regardless of reason, just like there will always be people who don't like games with pve servers.Let them be. Freedom of choice.
What wrong with your reasoning is that the PvE crowd want SotA PvP to fit them and not the PvP crowd. So PvP players will leave andseek a game that isnt infected by PvE players demands.They have their open PvE and still they want to destroy what the PvP crowd was hoping for.
I think that's more to do with whether the developer is willing to stick to their guns or not, not so much the playerbase.If the develop chooses money or inclusionism over their original/intented vision I don't think there is anything any of us can do - and if they choose money first over fun it won't ended up being a good game anyways, regardless of how good the source material is (swtor or Neverwinter anyone?)
It is both. I believe they adapt the SotA PvP game to please the PvE crowd.
SotA is a game, not a PvP game. PvP and PvE players will never see each other. PvE players can't be all up in arms about the PvP game because they'll never participate in it. PvP players can't be all mad that PvE players are participating in PvP because they will never see them. Everyone will get to do what they want. I'm not sure why anyone who's into PvP would have a reason to complain about this. Here's a description of the Online Play modes available. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-03-18-garriotts-shroud-of-the-avatar-multiplayer-explained-dragonlance-author-tracy-hickman-added Here's the relevant text from the article. Shroud of the Avatar can be played online and offline. Offline you connect once to the game for authorisation and that's it. But your character can only be used offline and you won't see any dynamic changes to the world, nor will you see other player's houses nor their items at auction.Online there are three modes: Single Player Online (SPO), Friends Play Online (FPO) and Open Play Online (OPO). Single Player Online connects you to the world so you can see the effect other people are having on the world, as well as look at their houses and their items at auction. You won't be visible to other people, though, or be eligible for grouping.Friends Play Online shows the people you have flagged as friends in the world. It's handy for guilds or role-players who don't want strangers breaking immersion.Open Play Online is as close as Shroud of the Avatar gets to being an MMO. But you won't see everyone: the server regulates who you see. This is based on a Selevance (social relevance) system that shows people based on "who we believe you will care about", explained tech director Chris Spears in a video update.It takes into account (probably in order) these things: Friends, guildmates, people you've grouped with, people you've interacted with, people you've sent tells to, people who've set their PVP tag and, finally, character power.
You just dont get it.
PvP will be infected by the PvE players demand.
If you followed PvP threads you can read all about it.
No risk vs reward and no consequences. That is not what the PvP crowd want but im positive developers will listen to the carebears and give them their version of PvP.
The real PvP:ers have to adapt once again to please the carebears.
If there are so few PvP players that their opinion doesn't matter, then yes, they need to adapt, or quit playing. Developers don't just want to make money, they must make money to survive and if that means listening to their largest audience, then so be it.
However, if you'll read closely what their plan is, there's no reason to not have risk and reward in PvP, because the PvE crowd won't be playing the game with the same people as the PvP crowd. The PvE crowd won't have to worry about full loot and they don't have to worry about getting "ganked". It's just not an issue for them because they will never see a PvP player.
The only scenario where the PvP turns "carebear" is if the PvP is going to die from lack of participation and Portalarium needs more players to participate. That would only happen if there are so few PvP players that PvP can't be supported.
Many of the PvP players that wanted a new UO have realized SotA will be a game with a carebear version of PvP. No risk vs reward and no consequences. Full loot that is essential for consequences is most likely out of the game cause the carebears feel it is to harsh penalty for dying.
There is very few active players on SotA forum and very few of them are PvP oldschool UO players. They isnt arround anymore.
Magic system seem to be really retarded, a cardgame where cards (spells) randomly pop up on your screen and you have to select one spell from those cards, you dont decide yourself what spell to throw. Pathetic.
Hardcore PvP players have left the game since it is going carebear. I will wait until we get information on the PvP first and then decide if i want to take part. As it looks today i will not play this game.
"many" "most likely" "feel"
Yeah, you need to stop thinking and just wait. you are woefully uninformed about SotA and you require more study of it and its community. I have seen one, maybe just two people on that forum claim they would quit if the game offers anything else other than full loot carebear killing for the PKs, and they were just trolls, and one of them was myself.
Most writing on forums nowadays want restrictions in different ways when it come to PvP.
Not easy for you to know though since you're banned from forums.
As I have stated earlier, the account "InsaneMembrane" is banned from the forums. I am still there.
The magicpvpsliderbarthingy(TM) will solve all issues for all PvP problems by connecting like players to each other. You don't like full loot? No problem, slide that slider bar to non-full-loot and you are all set.
It isn't going overboard though, it isn't like you can say " i dont like seeing people wearing red capes " and have it remove them from your game...
Anyway, most PvPers want full loot head ripping smash fests, most PvEers just want to craft. In the middle is where it will end up meeting, and it will be a much richer PvP than all the padded rooms out there currently. That much has already been made clear from the videos and 2M stretch goal.
It will definetly not solve all issues with PvP.
Carebear PvP and hardcore PvP is different and SotA will only have 1 online PvP.
So reading forums tell me that the only PvP SotA will have is the carebear version.
PvP slider mean nothing since the felucca version of PvP will not be in the game.
Originally posted by flizzerYou can have this as long as I get a completely PvE server. If the only way I can experience this game is with the PvP gank crowd, then I would pass. +1
+1 to Infinity
How about we all stop acting like children and realize that there is a way to have open PvP without their being open gank squads "ruining" the game? Thats just as bad as people who say MMOs with no PvP are useless. At least PvP MMO gamers usually know what they're talking about, but the PvE crowd always seems to speak from total ignorance.
Why force your view on someone else? Some people just don't like the idea at all regardless of justification.There will always be people who don't like a game with any element of pvp regardless of reason, just like there will always be people who don't like games with pve servers.Let them be. Freedom of choice.
What wrong with your reasoning is that the PvE crowd want SotA PvP to fit them and not the PvP crowd. So PvP players will leave andseek a game that isnt infected by PvE players demands.They have their open PvE and still they want to destroy what the PvP crowd was hoping for.
I think that's more to do with whether the developer is willing to stick to their guns or not, not so much the playerbase.If the develop chooses money or inclusionism over their original/intented vision I don't think there is anything any of us can do - and if they choose money first over fun it won't ended up being a good game anyways, regardless of how good the source material is (swtor or Neverwinter anyone?)
It is both. I believe they adapt the SotA PvP game to please the PvE crowd.
SotA is a game, not a PvP game. PvP and PvE players will never see each other. PvE players can't be all up in arms about the PvP game because they'll never participate in it. PvP players can't be all mad that PvE players are participating in PvP because they will never see them. Everyone will get to do what they want. I'm not sure why anyone who's into PvP would have a reason to complain about this. Here's a description of the Online Play modes available. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-03-18-garriotts-shroud-of-the-avatar-multiplayer-explained-dragonlance-author-tracy-hickman-added Here's the relevant text from the article. Shroud of the Avatar can be played online and offline. Offline you connect once to the game for authorisation and that's it. But your character can only be used offline and you won't see any dynamic changes to the world, nor will you see other player's houses nor their items at auction.Online there are three modes: Single Player Online (SPO), Friends Play Online (FPO) and Open Play Online (OPO). Single Player Online connects you to the world so you can see the effect other people are having on the world, as well as look at their houses and their items at auction. You won't be visible to other people, though, or be eligible for grouping.Friends Play Online shows the people you have flagged as friends in the world. It's handy for guilds or role-players who don't want strangers breaking immersion.Open Play Online is as close as Shroud of the Avatar gets to being an MMO. But you won't see everyone: the server regulates who you see. This is based on a Selevance (social relevance) system that shows people based on "who we believe you will care about", explained tech director Chris Spears in a video update.It takes into account (probably in order) these things: Friends, guildmates, people you've grouped with, people you've interacted with, people you've sent tells to, people who've set their PVP tag and, finally, character power.
You just dont get it.
PvP will be infected by the PvE players demand.
If you followed PvP threads you can read all about it.
No risk vs reward and no consequences. That is not what the PvP crowd want but im positive developers will listen to the carebears and give them their version of PvP.
The real PvP:ers have to adapt once again to please the carebears.
If there are so few PvP players that their opinion doesn't matter, then yes, they need to adapt, or quit playing. Developers don't just want to make money, they must make money to survive and if that means listening to their largest audience, then so be it.
However, if you'll read closely what their plan is, there's no reason to not have risk and reward in PvP, because the PvE crowd won't be playing the game with the same people as the PvP crowd. The PvE crowd won't have to worry about full loot and they don't have to worry about getting "ganked". It's just not an issue for them because they will never see a PvP player.
The only scenario where the PvP turns "carebear" is if the PvP is going to die from lack of participation and Portalarium needs more players to participate. That would only happen if there are so few PvP players that PvP can't be supported.
Many of the PvP players that wanted a new UO have realized SotA will be a game with a carebear version of PvP. No risk vs reward and no consequences. Full loot that is essential for consequences is most likely out of the game cause the carebears feel it is to harsh penalty for dying.
There is very few active players on SotA forum and very few of them are PvP oldschool UO players. They isnt arround anymore.
Magic system seem to be really retarded, a cardgame where cards (spells) randomly pop up on your screen and you have to select one spell from those cards, you dont decide yourself what spell to throw. Pathetic.
Hardcore PvP players have left the game since it is going carebear. I will wait until we get information on the PvP first and then decide if i want to take part. As it looks today i will not play this game.
"many" "most likely" "feel"
Yeah, you need to stop thinking and just wait. you are woefully uninformed about SotA and you require more study of it and its community. I have seen one, maybe just two people on that forum claim they would quit if the game offers anything else other than full loot carebear killing for the PKs, and they were just trolls, and one of them was myself.
Most writing on forums nowadays want restrictions in different ways when it come to PvP.
Not easy for you to know though since you're banned from forums.
As I have stated earlier, the account "InsaneMembrane" is banned from the forums. I am still there.
The magicpvpsliderbarthingy(TM) will solve all issues for all PvP problems by connecting like players to each other. You don't like full loot? No problem, slide that slider bar to non-full-loot and you are all set.
It isn't going overboard though, it isn't like you can say " i dont like seeing people wearing red capes " and have it remove them from your game...
Anyway, most PvPers want full loot head ripping smash fests, most PvEers just want to craft. In the middle is where it will end up meeting, and it will be a much richer PvP than all the padded rooms out there currently. That much has already been made clear from the videos and 2M stretch goal.
It will definetly not solve all issues with PvP.
Carebear PvP and hardcore PvP is different and SotA will only have 1 online PvP.
So reading forums tell me that the only PvP SotA will have is the carebear version.
PvP slider mean nothing since the felucca version of PvP will not be in the game.
Uhm, yeah, the slider is specifically meant to separate the carebears from the real players(PvPers). That's why carebears and PvP players alike do not have to worry about it! Full loot WILL BE IN THE FRACKIN GAME GUYS. It has been said, it will be done.
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane Uhm, yeah, the slider is specifically meant to separate the carebears from the real players(PvPers). That's why carebears and PvP players alike do not have to worry about it! Full loot WILL BE IN THE FRACKIN GAME GUYS. It has been said, it will be done.How hard is that to understand.
Exactly what kind of open world PvP will exist in the game hasn't been clearly stated yet. Aragon100 isn't anymore correct than anyone else. We only know that there will be PvP, and that the people who want PvP will be separate from the people who don't.
Though, on the whole "game will fail" statement, that's just false. There are a lot more people who were happy without PvP than with PvP in the old UO, but even there, UO peaked at 278K people. There's probably going to be more than 278K people who try the game out, and most "modern" gamers are more inclined to engage in consensual PvP without full loot.
The game is not in danger of failing because of any policies on PvP.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by flizzerYou can have this as long as I get a completely PvE server. If the only way I can experience this game is with the PvP gank crowd, then I would pass. +1
+1 to Infinity
How about we all stop acting like children and realize that there is a way to have open PvP without their being open gank squads "ruining" the game? Thats just as bad as people who say MMOs with no PvP are useless. At least PvP MMO gamers usually know what they're talking about, but the PvE crowd always seems to speak from total ignorance.
Why force your view on someone else? Some people just don't like the idea at all regardless of justification.There will always be people who don't like a game with any element of pvp regardless of reason, just like there will always be people who don't like games with pve servers.Let them be. Freedom of choice.
What wrong with your reasoning is that the PvE crowd want SotA PvP to fit them and not the PvP crowd. So PvP players will leave andseek a game that isnt infected by PvE players demands.They have their open PvE and still they want to destroy what the PvP crowd was hoping for.
I think that's more to do with whether the developer is willing to stick to their guns or not, not so much the playerbase.If the develop chooses money or inclusionism over their original/intented vision I don't think there is anything any of us can do - and if they choose money first over fun it won't ended up being a good game anyways, regardless of how good the source material is (swtor or Neverwinter anyone?)
It is both. I believe they adapt the SotA PvP game to please the PvE crowd.
SotA is a game, not a PvP game. PvP and PvE players will never see each other. PvE players can't be all up in arms about the PvP game because they'll never participate in it. PvP players can't be all mad that PvE players are participating in PvP because they will never see them. Everyone will get to do what they want. I'm not sure why anyone who's into PvP would have a reason to complain about this. Here's a description of the Online Play modes available. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-03-18-garriotts-shroud-of-the-avatar-multiplayer-explained-dragonlance-author-tracy-hickman-added Here's the relevant text from the article. Shroud of the Avatar can be played online and offline. Offline you connect once to the game for authorisation and that's it. But your character can only be used offline and you won't see any dynamic changes to the world, nor will you see other player's houses nor their items at auction.Online there are three modes: Single Player Online (SPO), Friends Play Online (FPO) and Open Play Online (OPO). Single Player Online connects you to the world so you can see the effect other people are having on the world, as well as look at their houses and their items at auction. You won't be visible to other people, though, or be eligible for grouping.Friends Play Online shows the people you have flagged as friends in the world. It's handy for guilds or role-players who don't want strangers breaking immersion.Open Play Online is as close as Shroud of the Avatar gets to being an MMO. But you won't see everyone: the server regulates who you see. This is based on a Selevance (social relevance) system that shows people based on "who we believe you will care about", explained tech director Chris Spears in a video update.It takes into account (probably in order) these things: Friends, guildmates, people you've grouped with, people you've interacted with, people you've sent tells to, people who've set their PVP tag and, finally, character power.
You just dont get it.
PvP will be infected by the PvE players demand.
If you followed PvP threads you can read all about it.
No risk vs reward and no consequences. That is not what the PvP crowd want but im positive developers will listen to the carebears and give them their version of PvP.
The real PvP:ers have to adapt once again to please the carebears.
If there are so few PvP players that their opinion doesn't matter, then yes, they need to adapt, or quit playing. Developers don't just want to make money, they must make money to survive and if that means listening to their largest audience, then so be it.
However, if you'll read closely what their plan is, there's no reason to not have risk and reward in PvP, because the PvE crowd won't be playing the game with the same people as the PvP crowd. The PvE crowd won't have to worry about full loot and they don't have to worry about getting "ganked". It's just not an issue for them because they will never see a PvP player.
The only scenario where the PvP turns "carebear" is if the PvP is going to die from lack of participation and Portalarium needs more players to participate. That would only happen if there are so few PvP players that PvP can't be supported.
Many of the PvP players that wanted a new UO have realized SotA will be a game with a carebear version of PvP. No risk vs reward and no consequences. Full loot that is essential for consequences is most likely out of the game cause the carebears feel it is to harsh penalty for dying.
There is very few active players on SotA forum and very few of them are PvP oldschool UO players. They isnt arround anymore.
Magic system seem to be really retarded, a cardgame where cards (spells) randomly pop up on your screen and you have to select one spell from those cards, you dont decide yourself what spell to throw. Pathetic.
Hardcore PvP players have left the game since it is going carebear. I will wait until we get information on the PvP first and then decide if i want to take part. As it looks today i will not play this game.
"many" "most likely" "feel"
Yeah, you need to stop thinking and just wait. you are woefully uninformed about SotA and you require more study of it and its community. I have seen one, maybe just two people on that forum claim they would quit if the game offers anything else other than full loot carebear killing for the PKs, and they were just trolls, and one of them was myself.
Most writing on forums nowadays want restrictions in different ways when it come to PvP.
Not easy for you to know though since you're banned from forums.
As I have stated earlier, the account "InsaneMembrane" is banned from the forums. I am still there.
The magicpvpsliderbarthingy(TM) will solve all issues for all PvP problems by connecting like players to each other. You don't like full loot? No problem, slide that slider bar to non-full-loot and you are all set.
It isn't going overboard though, it isn't like you can say " i dont like seeing people wearing red capes " and have it remove them from your game...
Anyway, most PvPers want full loot head ripping smash fests, most PvEers just want to craft. In the middle is where it will end up meeting, and it will be a much richer PvP than all the padded rooms out there currently. That much has already been made clear from the videos and 2M stretch goal.
It will definetly not solve all issues with PvP.
Carebear PvP and hardcore PvP is different and SotA will only have 1 online PvP.
So reading forums tell me that the only PvP SotA will have is the carebear version.
PvP slider mean nothing since the felucca version of PvP will not be in the game.
Uhm, yeah, the slider is specifically meant to separate the carebears from the real players(PvPers). That's why carebears and PvP players alike do not have to worry about it! Full loot WILL BE IN THE FRACKIN GAME GUYS. It has been said, it will be done.
How hard is that to understand.
Full loot in or out isnt decided on yet, give me a link to that decision.
SotA will have 1 online PvP mode.
There are PvE carebears that will take part PvP in the ONLY existing version of online SotA PvP.
These PvE carebears wont accept the rules of UO felucca.
These PvE carebears wont accept full loot, they want to be able to entirely block players (ignore isnt enough) that kill them more then 1 time cause they are griefers in the eyes of the carebears.
PvE carebears wanted a less skill demanding PvP game so the developers gave them a card game as magic system, cards will randomly pop up on my screen which i have to choose from, i cant choose the spell i wanted to cast.
So no risk vs reward in SotA, no consequences, not skillbased PvP, being able to block players out from PvP is what we will see in SotA carebear PvP.
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane Uhm, yeah, the slider is specifically meant to separate the carebears from the real players(PvPers). That's why carebears and PvP players alike do not have to worry about it! Full loot WILL BE IN THE FRACKIN GAME GUYS. It has been said, it will be done.
How hard is that to understand.
Exactly what kind of open world PvP will exist in the game hasn't been clearly stated yet. Aragon100 isn't anymore correct than anyone else. We only know that there will be PvP, and that the people who want PvP will be separate from the people who don't.
Though, on the whole "game will fail" statement, that's just false. There are a lot more people who were happy without PvP than with PvP in the old UO, but even there, UO peaked at 278K people. There's probably going to be more than 278K people who try the game out, and most "modern" gamers are more inclined to engage in consensual PvP without full loot.
The game is not in danger of failing because of any policies on PvP.
Yeah i agree that SotA PvP will be a carebear version of PvP.
Oldschool UO felucca PvP players like me have to look elsewhere.
And SotA will be way less successful without players like me sponsoring the game. Only thing that make me happy with that is that the carebears that slowly destroyed SotA PvP with their carebear PvP ideas now will have to play in a less funded game, hardcore PvP players will not play SotA.
My whole guild will instead try Star Citizen that seem alot more promising to be the new felucca.
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane Uhm, yeah, the slider is specifically meant to separate the carebears from the real players(PvPers). That's why carebears and PvP players alike do not have to worry about it! Full loot WILL BE IN THE FRACKIN GAME GUYS. It has been said, it will be done.
How hard is that to understand.
Exactly what kind of open world PvP will exist in the game hasn't been clearly stated yet. Aragon100 isn't anymore correct than anyone else. We only know that there will be PvP, and that the people who want PvP will be separate from the people who don't.
Though, on the whole "game will fail" statement, that's just false. There are a lot more people who were happy without PvP than with PvP in the old UO, but even there, UO peaked at 278K people. There's probably going to be more than 278K people who try the game out, and most "modern" gamers are more inclined to engage in consensual PvP without full loot.
The game is not in danger of failing because of any policies on PvP.
Yeah i agree that SotA PvP will be a carebear version of PvP.
Oldschool UO felucca PvP players like me have to look elsewhere.
And SotA will be way less successful without players like me sponsoring the game. Only thing that make me happy with that is that the carebears that slowly destroyed SotA PvP with their carebear PvP ideas now will have to play in a less funded game, hardcore PvP players will not play SotA.
My whole guild will instead try Star Citizen that seem alot more promising to be the new felucca.
You truly have no idea what you are talking about. I encourage you to watch the Dev chats again on what they have discussed for PvP, which yes actually does include full loot for those who select PvP as primary gameplay. That my friends, is no frackin trammel kiddy playground.
Originally posted by Komandor If the idea would be executed properly, they both would've been a 10/10 title [mod edit]
...and that you know because your crystal ball told you?
Personal beliefs =/= facts.
EVE Online was great idea, good execution and it barely made it first years. In fact, many would argue that boosting high security(read: carebear) area is what saved the game from dying.
DF and MO alike are deemed to fail not because of execution but because of catering to insufficient "hardcore, full loot, open-pvp, unrestricted PVP" audience.
Only minor fraction of EVE population live in null sec(intense PVP area), most players don't care bout PVP, full loot or whatnot.
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane Uhm, yeah, the slider is specifically meant to separate the carebears from the real players(PvPers). That's why carebears and PvP players alike do not have to worry about it! Full loot WILL BE IN THE FRACKIN GAME GUYS. It has been said, it will be done.
How hard is that to understand.
Exactly what kind of open world PvP will exist in the game hasn't been clearly stated yet. Aragon100 isn't anymore correct than anyone else. We only know that there will be PvP, and that the people who want PvP will be separate from the people who don't.
Though, on the whole "game will fail" statement, that's just false. There are a lot more people who were happy without PvP than with PvP in the old UO, but even there, UO peaked at 278K people. There's probably going to be more than 278K people who try the game out, and most "modern" gamers are more inclined to engage in consensual PvP without full loot.
The game is not in danger of failing because of any policies on PvP.
Yeah i agree that SotA PvP will be a carebear version of PvP.
Oldschool UO felucca PvP players like me have to look elsewhere.
And SotA will be way less successful without players like me sponsoring the game. Only thing that make me happy with that is that the carebears that slowly destroyed SotA PvP with their carebear PvP ideas now will have to play in a less funded game, hardcore PvP players will not play SotA.
My whole guild will instead try Star Citizen that seem alot more promising to be the new felucca.
You truly have no idea what you are talking about. I encourage you to watch the Dev chats again on what they have discussed for PvP, which yes actually does include full loot for those who select PvP as primary gameplay. That my friends, is no frackin trammel kiddy playground.
Stop being uninformed haters. Get educated.
And as i already knew, you could not provide a link to where full loot is decided by developers to be in the game, cause it just isnt decided.
You're the clueless one here and it is amuzing how you continue to defend this coming carebear game as something else. SotA will not be the new oldschool UO, it will be just another WoW game.
I agree on the word realistic but you need to realize that realistic cannot be done well in a video game ,so certain restrictions need to be implemented.
First of all if you were some common criminal/hug in real,you would be hunted down and jailed or dead for good.So since a game allows pvp with really no recourse,you need to make sure that encounters are fair.This is why sport leagues have age restrictions,salary caps,difficulty ratings,they want a FAIR system for all involved.
First of all you can't imitate actual death because you would actually die,so you wouldn't need to worry about your wares.Perma death is totally not going to work so again you need restrictions.Players want to play ,not run back and start acquiring more gear to play,so no looting is not a good idea.I would prefer to see something along the lines of penalties,such as accuracy penalties or movement speed penalties and or xp penalties,there is a limitless world of ideas.
What i would like to see in pvp games is perhaps a rating system similar to what Unreal used.Players attacking much weaker players would most likely suffer a penalty to their rating with no chance to improve.This rating could be used to give players various perks/improvements,so there would be meaning to attacking an equal or tougher opponent.
Bottom line is i feel too many gamer's simply want to have an EASY distinct advantage leading to an EASY win,so they are in essence the true care bear.When i played in a lot of sport leagues,i would NEVER choose an easier rated league,i always wanted the challenge,that is the true meaning of sport and challenge as pvp SHOULD be in gaming.
Realistically,there is a LOT more to do in gaming than worry about pvp,games are not attaining 50% of their potential.Pvp is a real lazy way to pretend a game has content or meaning,you simply check a flag that says players can attack players,no real effort there by the developer.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
If the idea would be executed properly, they both would've been a 10/10 title [mod edit]
...and that you know because your crystal ball told you?
Personal beliefs =/= facts.
EVE Online was great idea, good execution and it barely made it first years. In fact, many would argue that boosting high security(read: carebear) area is what saved the game from dying.
DF and MO alike are deemed to fail not because of execution but because of catering to insufficient "hardcore, full loot, open-pvp, unrestricted PVP" audience.
Only minor fraction of EVE population live in null sec(intense PVP area), most players don't care bout PVP, full loot or whatnot.
If the idea would be executed properly, they both would've been a 10/10 title [mod edit]
...and that you know because your crystal ball told you?
Personal beliefs =/= facts.
EVE Online was great idea, good execution and it barely made it first years. In fact, many would argue that boosting high security(read: carebear) area is what saved the game from dying.
DF and MO alike are deemed to fail not because of execution but because of catering to insufficient "hardcore, full loot, open-pvp, unrestricted PVP" audience.
Only minor fraction of EVE population live in null sec(intense PVP area), most players don't care bout PVP, full loot or whatnot.
And thats your version of personal beliefs
It's actually CCP who said themself that most players stay in high sec. So his personal beliefs seem to also be the official beliefs...
I agree on the word realistic but you need to realize that realistic cannot be done well in a video game ,so certain restrictions need to be implemented.
First of all if you were some common criminal/hug in real,you would be hunted down and jailed or dead for good.So since a game allows pvp with really no recourse,you need to make sure that encounters are fair.This is why sport leagues have age restrictions,salary caps,difficulty ratings,they want a FAIR system for all involved.
First of all you can't imitate actual death because you would actually die,so you wouldn't need to worry about your wares.Perma death is totally not going to work so again you need restrictions.Players want to play ,not run back and start acquiring more gear to play,so no looting is not a good idea.I would prefer to see something along the lines of penalties,such as accuracy penalties or movement speed penalties and or xp penalties,there is a limitless world of ideas.
What i would like to see in pvp games is perhaps a rating system similar to what Unreal used.Players attacking much weaker players would most likely suffer a penalty to their rating with no chance to improve.This rating could be used to give players various perks/improvements,so there would be meaning to attacking an equal or tougher opponent.
Bottom line is i feel too many gamer's simply want to have an EASY distinct advantage leading to an EASY win,so they are in essence the true care bear.When i played in a lot of sport leagues,i would NEVER choose an easier rated league,i always wanted the challenge,that is the true meaning of sport and challenge as pvp SHOULD be in gaming.
Realistically,there is a LOT more to do in gaming than worry about pvp,games are not attaining 50% of their potential.Pvp is a real lazy way to pretend a game has content or meaning,you simply check a flag that says players can attack players,no real effort there by the developer.
Full loot is the reward in risk vs reward PvP games. And consequences is that you loose your gear when you suck at PvP.
Risk vs reward and consequences. That wont be seen in SotA with all the carebears whining 24/7.
My guild had some of the best UO players ever seen and they just about always fought outnumbered cause they enjoyed that challenge. They took a risk and got rewarded cause they had way better playerskills.
Full loot also work very well if gear is as easily replacable as they were in oldschool UO, took about 5 minutes. Oldschool UO is before UO went WoWified with Age of Shadows february 2003.
And please tell me how you can tell if a player is weaker then you when you have no levels in a game?
If a new player decide to go to a highrisk area for lets say a very rare rescource then he might get a nice reward but he could also suffer the consequences for taking such a risk. See i got all 3 important words in that line, risk, reward, consequences.
Originally posted by InsaneMembrane Uhm, yeah, the slider is specifically meant to separate the carebears from the real players(PvPers). That's why carebears and PvP players alike do not have to worry about it! Full loot WILL BE IN THE FRACKIN GAME GUYS. It has been said, it will be done.
How hard is that to understand.
Exactly what kind of open world PvP will exist in the game hasn't been clearly stated yet. Aragon100 isn't anymore correct than anyone else. We only know that there will be PvP, and that the people who want PvP will be separate from the people who don't.
Though, on the whole "game will fail" statement, that's just false. There are a lot more people who were happy without PvP than with PvP in the old UO, but even there, UO peaked at 278K people. There's probably going to be more than 278K people who try the game out, and most "modern" gamers are more inclined to engage in consensual PvP without full loot.
The game is not in danger of failing because of any policies on PvP.
Yeah i agree that SotA PvP will be a carebear version of PvP.
Oldschool UO felucca PvP players like me have to look elsewhere.
And SotA will be way less successful without players like me sponsoring the game. Only thing that make me happy with that is that the carebears that slowly destroyed SotA PvP with their carebear PvP ideas now will have to play in a less funded game, hardcore PvP players will not play SotA.
My whole guild will instead try Star Citizen that seem alot more promising to be the new felucca.
You truly have no idea what you are talking about. I encourage you to watch the Dev chats again on what they have discussed for PvP, which yes actually does include full loot for those who select PvP as primary gameplay. That my friends, is no frackin trammel kiddy playground.
Stop being uninformed haters. Get educated.
And as i already knew, you could not provide a link to where full loot is decided by developers to be in the game, cause it just isnt decided.
You're the clueless one here and it is amuzing how you continue to defend this coming carebear game as something else. SotA will not be the new oldschool UO, it will be just another WoW game.
lul
me clueless
lawl
nobody asked for video.. you want video? i am a PK, i haz this shizzle bookmarked
lul lul
Dev Chat on 5.16.13
32:45 - 36:30 (pvp)
lawl
MMORPGITALIA Interview
06:10 - 07:45 (pvp)
26:46 - 29:55 (pvp and thief)
32:00 - 33:43 (pvp)
roflmao @ you nub
there is even more than this, it is a google search away from your lazy butt. but it all says the same thing which you have already been told. pvp is there, full loot is going to make an appearance for the pvp players which the carebears will probably never come across. so there is not going to be any carebearing of pvp. cos the carebears wont pvp, they wont piss in the pvp water.
the only thing RG has said 100% is not going to be allowed is the outright griefing caused to nubs by hardcore PKs. while that does make me slightly sad, everything else they have said about this game, does not make me sad.
now what I suggest all of you pvp end of days frackin foos do, is start to talk over on the sota forum instead of QQ your entire lives in here. put out your concerns. be heard. the only thing you will get a no on is outright PK grief.
Originally posted by InsaneDalek Yes, because as everyone knows when UO added Trammel it was such a huge fai- OH WAIT.
It was fail. Trammel pretty much killed UO. This is common knowledge. Worst move in gaming history.
Not at all. It is a common misconception.
UO was awesome. If you look at the sub numbers it was dying well before Trammel. The problem was that only the PvPers were left so Trammel killed the remaining player base and not having Trammel sooner killed the rest well before.
Back to the OPs intentions though. SoA will never be PvP centric and it will likely end up with a small player base. I have no idea what to think of it yet but it seems like it will cater to people who want to spend real cash on cosmetics, housing etc. All of the things that were earned in UO are now for purchase with real dollars. I remember planting my first small forge on the ice island the the sense of accomplishment was amazing. Building up to that seemed worth it. I am not sure where the hook will be here.
Comments
Many new players joined the PvP in felucca after trammel. How many? Hard to say but i saw loads of new players entering felucca after trammel and after Age of shadows i saw +10000 on some of the bigger freeshards.
Trammel was a salvation for the PvE players and Age of Shadows was the final kill of felucca.
I'm not talking about what the game need, im talking about UO 2. That game would have alot more followers then SotA have today.
+1 to Infinity
How about we all stop acting like children and realize that there is a way to have open PvP without their being open gank squads "ruining" the game? Thats just as bad as people who say MMOs with no PvP are useless. At least PvP MMO gamers usually know what they're talking about, but the PvE crowd always seems to speak from total ignorance.
Why force your view on someone else? Some people just don't like the idea at all regardless of justification. There will always be people who don't like a game with any element of pvp regardless of reason, just like there will always be people who don't like games with pve servers. Let them be. Freedom of choice.
What wrong with your reasoning is that the PvE crowd want SotA PvP to fit them and not the PvP crowd. So PvP players will leave andseek a game that isnt infected by PvE players demands. They have their open PvE and still they want to destroy what the PvP crowd was hoping for.
I think that's more to do with whether the developer is willing to stick to their guns or not, not so much the playerbase. If the develop chooses money or inclusionism over their original/intented vision I don't think there is anything any of us can do - and if they choose money first over fun it won't ended up being a good game anyways, regardless of how good the source material is (swtor or Neverwinter anyone?)
It is both. I believe they adapt the SotA PvP game to please the PvE crowd.
SotA is a game, not a PvP game. PvP and PvE players will never see each other. PvE players can't be all up in arms about the PvP game because they'll never participate in it. PvP players can't be all mad that PvE players are participating in PvP because they will never see them. Everyone will get to do what they want. I'm not sure why anyone who's into PvP would have a reason to complain about this.
Here's a description of the Online Play modes available.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-03-18-garriotts-shroud-of-the-avatar-multiplayer-explained-dragonlance-author-tracy-hickman-added
Here's the relevant text from the article.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
You just dont get it.
PvP will be infected by the PvE players demand.
If you followed PvP threads you can read all about it.
No risk vs reward and no consequences. That is not what the PvP crowd want but im positive developers will listen to the carebears and give them their version of PvP.
The real PvP:ers have to adapt once again to please the carebears.
What are you missing bro?
The only thing PvE players demand is the ability to avoid being PKd and PvP. That is accomplished by The magicpvpsliderbarthingy(TM) and problem solved.
PvP will be left for the PvP players to hopefully provide feedback on and structure to their wish.
http://insanemembrain.wordpress.com/
How about we all stop acting like children and realize that there is a way to have open PvP without their being open gank squads "ruining" the game? Thats just as bad as people who say MMOs with no PvP are useless. At least PvP MMO gamers usually know what they're talking about, but the PvE crowd always seems to speak from total ignorance.
Why force your view on someone else? Some people just don't like the idea at all regardless of justification. There will always be people who don't like a game with any element of pvp regardless of reason, just like there will always be people who don't like games with pve servers. Let them be. Freedom of choice.
What wrong with your reasoning is that the PvE crowd want SotA PvP to fit them and not the PvP crowd. So PvP players will leave andseek a game that isnt infected by PvE players demands. They have their open PvE and still they want to destroy what the PvP crowd was hoping for.
I think that's more to do with whether the developer is willing to stick to their guns or not, not so much the playerbase. If the develop chooses money or inclusionism over their original/intented vision I don't think there is anything any of us can do - and if they choose money first over fun it won't ended up being a good game anyways, regardless of how good the source material is (swtor or Neverwinter anyone?)
It is both. I believe they adapt the SotA PvP game to please the PvE crowd.
SotA is a game, not a PvP game. PvP and PvE players will never see each other. PvE players can't be all up in arms about the PvP game because they'll never participate in it. PvP players can't be all mad that PvE players are participating in PvP because they will never see them. Everyone will get to do what they want. I'm not sure why anyone who's into PvP would have a reason to complain about this. Here's a description of the Online Play modes available. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-03-18-garriotts-shroud-of-the-avatar-multiplayer-explained-dragonlance-author-tracy-hickman-added Here's the relevant text from the article. Shroud of the Avatar can be played online and offline. Offline you connect once to the game for authorisation and that's it. But your character can only be used offline and you won't see any dynamic changes to the world, nor will you see other player's houses nor their items at auction. Online there are three modes: Single Player Online (SPO), Friends Play Online (FPO) and Open Play Online (OPO). Single Player Online connects you to the world so you can see the effect other people are having on the world, as well as look at their houses and their items at auction. You won't be visible to other people, though, or be eligible for grouping. Friends Play Online shows the people you have flagged as friends in the world. It's handy for guilds or role-players who don't want strangers breaking immersion. Open Play Online is as close as Shroud of the Avatar gets to being an MMO. But you won't see everyone: the server regulates who you see. This is based on a Selevance (social relevance) system that shows people based on "who we believe you will care about", explained tech director Chris Spears in a video update. It takes into account (probably in order) these things: Friends, guildmates, people you've grouped with, people you've interacted with, people you've sent tells to, people who've set their PVP tag and, finally, character power.
You just dont get it.
PvP will be infected by the PvE players demand.
If you followed PvP threads you can read all about it.
No risk vs reward and no consequences. That is not what the PvP crowd want but im positive developers will listen to the carebears and give them their version of PvP.
The real PvP:ers have to adapt once again to please the carebears.
If there are so few PvP players that their opinion doesn't matter, then yes, they need to adapt, or quit playing. Developers don't just want to make money, they must make money to survive and if that means listening to their largest audience, then so be it.
However, if you'll read closely what their plan is, there's no reason to not have risk and reward in PvP, because the PvE crowd won't be playing the game with the same people as the PvP crowd. The PvE crowd won't have to worry about full loot and they don't have to worry about getting "ganked". It's just not an issue for them because they will never see a PvP player.
The only scenario where the PvP turns "carebear" is if the PvP is going to die from lack of participation and Portalarium needs more players to participate. That would only happen if there are so few PvP players that PvP can't be supported.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Full loot, a risk vs reward PvP game with consequences.
Most PvE players on SotA that might take part in PvP want above taken out of the game. They want SotA PvP to fit there carebear version of PvP.
Many of the PvP players that wanted a new UO have realized SotA will be a game with a carebear version of PvP. No risk vs reward and no consequences. Full loot that is essential for consequences is most likely out of the game cause the carebears feel it is to harsh penalty for dying.
There is very few active players on SotA forum and very few of them are PvP oldschool UO players. They isnt arround anymore.
Magic system seem to be really retarded, a cardgame where cards (spells) randomly pop up on your screen and you have to select one spell from those cards, you dont decide yourself what spell to throw. Pathetic.
Hardcore PvP players have left the game since it is going carebear. I will wait until we get information on the PvP first and then decide if i want to take part. As it looks today i will not play this game.
"many" "most likely" "feel"
Yeah, you need to stop thinking and just wait. you are woefully uninformed about SotA and you require more study of it and its community. I have seen one, maybe just two people on that forum claim they would quit if the game offers anything else other than full loot carebear killing for the PKs, and they were just trolls, and one of them was myself.
http://insanemembrain.wordpress.com/
This only matters if those PvP players are going to be the majority of the players in SotA. It doesn't sound like they are going to be the majority of players. If the majority of the players are going to be "carebears", then the only real option is to get over it or wait for something else to play. In any event, the presence or absence of those features will not determine if the game will fail.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Most writing on forums nowadays want restrictions in different ways when it come to PvP.
Not easy for you to know though since you're banned from forums.
As I have stated earlier, the account "InsaneMembrane" is banned from the forums. I am still there.
The magicpvpsliderbarthingy(TM) will solve all issues for all PvP problems by connecting like players to each other. You don't like full loot? No problem, slide that slider bar to non-full-loot and you are all set.
It isn't going overboard though, it isn't like you can say " i dont like seeing people wearing red capes " and have it remove them from your game...
Anyway, most PvPers want full loot head ripping smash fests, most PvEers just want to craft. In the middle is where it will end up meeting, and it will be a much richer PvP than all the padded rooms out there currently. That much has already been made clear from the videos and 2M stretch goal.
http://insanemembrain.wordpress.com/
It will definetly not solve all issues with PvP.
Carebear PvP and hardcore PvP is different and SotA will only have 1 online PvP.
So reading forums tell me that the only PvP SotA will have is the carebear version.
PvP slider mean nothing since the felucca version of PvP will not be in the game.
Uhm, yeah, the slider is specifically meant to separate the carebears from the real players(PvPers). That's why carebears and PvP players alike do not have to worry about it! Full loot WILL BE IN THE FRACKIN GAME GUYS. It has been said, it will be done.
How hard is that to understand.
http://insanemembrain.wordpress.com/
Exactly what kind of open world PvP will exist in the game hasn't been clearly stated yet. Aragon100 isn't anymore correct than anyone else. We only know that there will be PvP, and that the people who want PvP will be separate from the people who don't.
Though, on the whole "game will fail" statement, that's just false. There are a lot more people who were happy without PvP than with PvP in the old UO, but even there, UO peaked at 278K people. There's probably going to be more than 278K people who try the game out, and most "modern" gamers are more inclined to engage in consensual PvP without full loot.
The game is not in danger of failing because of any policies on PvP.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Full loot in or out isnt decided on yet, give me a link to that decision.
SotA will have 1 online PvP mode.
There are PvE carebears that will take part PvP in the ONLY existing version of online SotA PvP.
These PvE carebears wont accept the rules of UO felucca.
These PvE carebears wont accept full loot, they want to be able to entirely block players (ignore isnt enough) that kill them more then 1 time cause they are griefers in the eyes of the carebears.
PvE carebears wanted a less skill demanding PvP game so the developers gave them a card game as magic system, cards will randomly pop up on my screen which i have to choose from, i cant choose the spell i wanted to cast.
So no risk vs reward in SotA, no consequences, not skillbased PvP, being able to block players out from PvP is what we will see in SotA carebear PvP.
Yeah i agree that SotA PvP will be a carebear version of PvP.
Oldschool UO felucca PvP players like me have to look elsewhere.
And SotA will be way less successful without players like me sponsoring the game. Only thing that make me happy with that is that the carebears that slowly destroyed SotA PvP with their carebear PvP ideas now will have to play in a less funded game, hardcore PvP players will not play SotA.
My whole guild will instead try Star Citizen that seem alot more promising to be the new felucca.
You truly have no idea what you are talking about. I encourage you to watch the Dev chats again on what they have discussed for PvP, which yes actually does include full loot for those who select PvP as primary gameplay. That my friends, is no frackin trammel kiddy playground.
Stop being uninformed haters. Get educated.
http://insanemembrain.wordpress.com/
...and that you know because your crystal ball told you?
Personal beliefs =/= facts.
EVE Online was great idea, good execution and it barely made it first years. In fact, many would argue that boosting high security(read: carebear) area is what saved the game from dying.
DF and MO alike are deemed to fail not because of execution but because of catering to insufficient "hardcore, full loot, open-pvp, unrestricted PVP" audience.
Only minor fraction of EVE population live in null sec(intense PVP area), most players don't care bout PVP, full loot or whatnot.
And as i already knew, you could not provide a link to where full loot is decided by developers to be in the game, cause it just isnt decided.
You're the clueless one here and it is amuzing how you continue to defend this coming carebear game as something else. SotA will not be the new oldschool UO, it will be just another WoW game.
I agree on the word realistic but you need to realize that realistic cannot be done well in a video game ,so certain restrictions need to be implemented.
First of all if you were some common criminal/hug in real,you would be hunted down and jailed or dead for good.So since a game allows pvp with really no recourse,you need to make sure that encounters are fair.This is why sport leagues have age restrictions,salary caps,difficulty ratings,they want a FAIR system for all involved.
First of all you can't imitate actual death because you would actually die,so you wouldn't need to worry about your wares.Perma death is totally not going to work so again you need restrictions.Players want to play ,not run back and start acquiring more gear to play,so no looting is not a good idea.I would prefer to see something along the lines of penalties,such as accuracy penalties or movement speed penalties and or xp penalties,there is a limitless world of ideas.
What i would like to see in pvp games is perhaps a rating system similar to what Unreal used.Players attacking much weaker players would most likely suffer a penalty to their rating with no chance to improve.This rating could be used to give players various perks/improvements,so there would be meaning to attacking an equal or tougher opponent.
Bottom line is i feel too many gamer's simply want to have an EASY distinct advantage leading to an EASY win,so they are in essence the true care bear.When i played in a lot of sport leagues,i would NEVER choose an easier rated league,i always wanted the challenge,that is the true meaning of sport and challenge as pvp SHOULD be in gaming.
Realistically,there is a LOT more to do in gaming than worry about pvp,games are not attaining 50% of their potential.Pvp is a real lazy way to pretend a game has content or meaning,you simply check a flag that says players can attack players,no real effort there by the developer.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
And thats your version of personal beliefs
It's actually CCP who said themself that most players stay in high sec. So his personal beliefs seem to also be the official beliefs...
My computer is better than yours.
Full loot is the reward in risk vs reward PvP games. And consequences is that you loose your gear when you suck at PvP.
Risk vs reward and consequences. That wont be seen in SotA with all the carebears whining 24/7.
My guild had some of the best UO players ever seen and they just about always fought outnumbered cause they enjoyed that challenge. They took a risk and got rewarded cause they had way better playerskills.
Full loot also work very well if gear is as easily replacable as they were in oldschool UO, took about 5 minutes. Oldschool UO is before UO went WoWified with Age of Shadows february 2003.
And please tell me how you can tell if a player is weaker then you when you have no levels in a game?
If a new player decide to go to a highrisk area for lets say a very rare rescource then he might get a nice reward but he could also suffer the consequences for taking such a risk. See i got all 3 important words in that line, risk, reward, consequences.
lul
me clueless
lawl
nobody asked for video.. you want video? i am a PK, i haz this shizzle bookmarked
lul lul
Dev Chat on 5.16.13
32:45 - 36:30 (pvp)
lawl
MMORPGITALIA Interview
06:10 - 07:45 (pvp)
26:46 - 29:55 (pvp and thief)
32:00 - 33:43 (pvp)
roflmao @ you nub
there is even more than this, it is a google search away from your lazy butt. but it all says the same thing which you have already been told. pvp is there, full loot is going to make an appearance for the pvp players which the carebears will probably never come across. so there is not going to be any carebearing of pvp. cos the carebears wont pvp, they wont piss in the pvp water.
the only thing RG has said 100% is not going to be allowed is the outright griefing caused to nubs by hardcore PKs. while that does make me slightly sad, everything else they have said about this game, does not make me sad.
now what I suggest all of you pvp end of days frackin foos do, is start to talk over on the sota forum instead of QQ your entire lives in here. put out your concerns. be heard. the only thing you will get a no on is outright PK grief.
dooo eeeet nao
http://insanemembrain.wordpress.com/
Not at all. It is a common misconception.
UO was awesome. If you look at the sub numbers it was dying well before Trammel. The problem was that only the PvPers were left so Trammel killed the remaining player base and not having Trammel sooner killed the rest well before.
Back to the OPs intentions though. SoA will never be PvP centric and it will likely end up with a small player base. I have no idea what to think of it yet but it seems like it will cater to people who want to spend real cash on cosmetics, housing etc. All of the things that were earned in UO are now for purchase with real dollars. I remember planting my first small forge on the ice island the the sense of accomplishment was amazing. Building up to that seemed worth it. I am not sure where the hook will be here.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!