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WARHAMMER and WARHAMMER 40K:Someone who knows the game industry please respond

UnleadedRevUnleadedRev Boston, MAPosts: 387Member Uncommon

I am in a angry Warhammer and Warhammer 40K rant mode again.

Please...please tell me why with all of the strictness that Games Workshop apparently utilizes in the use of their IP, it doesnot include the following:

1) Keep financially solvent companies like Electronic Arts from abandoning games using their IP, i.e. Warhammer Online.

2) Keep companies that produce great games, yet could not manage Beaver Cleaver's lunch money, from abandoning their IP and its "award winning games" , i.e.   Relic and the complete "Warhammer 40K Dawn of War series" and 'Space Marine".

3) Keep companys like Bioware and Electronic Arts from running so called "Experiments" with their IP such as "Warhammer Wrath of Heroes"...which was a great game, a great concept, yet fell victim to EA's financial woes.

As a result, there are NO Warhammer or Warhammer 40K games; even the ones still "LIVE" that enjoy direct game support and updates. EA has no employees dedicated to Warhammer Online after the Wrath of Heroes shut down and Space Marine is as stagnant as a tomb with forum websites being raped and abused by hackers and 3rd party spammers. I believe the DoW games are suffering this same abuse of abandonment as well.

ITS DISGUSTING.

 

Thank you

 

I've never been less hyped for a WoW expansion. Blizzard really needs to prove they can do something other then the whole infinite gear treadmill dance, slowly and painfully introduced.


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Comments

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by UnleadedRev

    I am in a angry Warhammer and Warhammer 40K rant mode again.

    Please...please tell me why with all of the strictness that Games Workshop apparently utilizes in the use of their IP, it doesnot include the following:

    1) Keep financially solvent companies like Electronic Arts from abandoning games using their IP, i.e. Warhammer Online.

    2) Keep companies that produce great games, yet could not manage Beaver Cleaver's lunch money, from abandoning their IP and its "award winning games" , i.e.   Relic and the complete "Warhammer 40K Dawn of War series" and 'Space Marine".

    3) Keep companys like Bioware and Electronic Arts from running so called "Experiments" with their IP such as "Warhammer Wrath of Heroes"...which was a great game, a great concept, yet fell victim to EA's financial woes.

    As a result, there are NO Warhammer or Warhammer 40K games; even the ones still "LIVE" that enjoy direct game support and updates. EA has no employees dedicated to Warhammer Online after the Wrath of Heroes shut down and Space Marine is as stagnant as a tomb with forum websites being raped and abused by hackers and 3rd party spammers. I believe the DoW games are suffering this same abuse of abandonment as well.

    ITS DISGUSTING.

     

    Thank you

     

    What are you talking about?

    There is a great Warhammer game, called Warhammer Quest just came out last week on the iOS. It is a great turn-based RPG.

    There are at least TWO WK40k (both turn-base, i believe) announced on the IOS including a space hulk one. You just don't know where to look.

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member

    What issue are you taking with the Dawn of War series?

     

    I also have really enjoyed Warhammer: Squad Command on the PSP. It got dinged pretty hard by critics, but I couldn't put it down.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • UnleadedRevUnleadedRev Boston, MAPosts: 387Member Uncommon

    IOS? 

    I am talking PC games, not consoles.

    My apologies, for not stating that.

    Do the DoW games have active websites with active forums being run by the Devs, with expansions and game updates?

    The makers of DoW have gone under? Who is supporting it?

    Please clarify.

    I've never been less hyped for a WoW expansion. Blizzard really needs to prove they can do something other then the whole infinite gear treadmill dance, slowly and painfully introduced.


  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member

    1) There isn't really a rule about getting the rights to the game and then giving up on making the game. It happens fairly often. At that point the rights generally get taken back and another company could try to get a deal for those rights to make a game. LotRO started as Middle Earth Online by a company that I think went broke, and then Turbine picked it up. The companies producing the games are taking the risks (investing money in hopes of returns) where as the parent IP company is just either taking fees, or a cut of the profits, or both. So when a company runs out of money, or decides it isn't worth putting more money behind something it is generally their call on whether or not they abandon it.

     

    2) Companies dedicate resources where they think they can make money. I don't think any company would put much in the way of manpower behind Warhammer Online right now. The game was doomed and hated by most of the MMO world at launch and did nothing but shrink, shrink and shrink. EA (and generally any other company including ones that aren't absolutely terrible) would only put resources/manpower on Warhammer Online if they thought in some way those resources could turn a profit/grow the player base of the game. I don't think anyone sees that as a possibility either inside/or outside of EA.

     

     

    All that said, EA gets voted worst company in America for a reason. They aren't good for gamers and to see their name buy up a product generally makes fans of that product/IP groan. At the same time they are still the biggest game company out there, which means they have a lot of power to grab different IPs.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by UnleadedRev

    I am in a angry Warhammer and Warhammer 40K rant mode again.

    Please...please tell me why with all of the strictness that Games Workshop apparently utilizes in the use of their IP, it doesnot include the following:

    1) Keep financially solvent companies like Electronic Arts from abandoning games using their IP, i.e. Warhammer Online.

    Kind of got Big Dog and Little Dog reversed, ahm thinkin...

    GW says "We will force you!"

    EA says "Quiet, little bug, before we purchase and liquidate your feeble assets."

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • GorweGorwe ZagrebPosts: 2,472Member Uncommon

    I can tell you what I heard from common sense and Pachter. Brace yourself for the truth:

    They are in it FOR MONEY first and EVERYTHING ELSE second.

    Also, I saw a post from some bloke on a site for Tabletop game reviews about what High ranking GW guy told him(GW guy to the gamestore that bloke owned)-it merely reinforces this truth:

    "...so he said to me that they are in it only to sell Tin bitz/figurines. ..."->that doesn't worry you even a bit?

    That's why they turned a blind eye to the Skaven+Dwarf debacle. That's why they allowed Wrath of Heroes in the first place. That's why they sign contracts with cheap studios(Slitherine comes to mind) because then they have pure profit. And you know our fasci overlords. They are all over that.

    Don't get me wrong. The best RTS(and RTT when I better think about it) that I played in recent years was Dawn of War(both). The best Themeparks I played were WAR and TSW(still playing this one). And I think that the best Total War game will be Total Warhammer. And I'd outright KILL(I mean this!) for a TES-like Warhammer Fantasy experience. Meh. I guess Warhammer quest is going to suffice >.<

    That ok unleaded? And I am often angry how everyone and their Grandma has understanding for failcraft, but not for what spawned failcraft. Meh, the skeins of fate are tangled.

    Now I am bitter and angry as well... Good job unleaded!

  • bbethelbbethel las vegas, NVPosts: 199Member

    I agree IOS!!!

    IOS games are not for gamers. My parents play them my sister who does not even own a PC or any console plays IOS games

    I don't really thing IOS should be considered when Looking at what has happened to the Warhammer IP

    I agree with the rant of WH above. I don't know what these companies are doing. WH40K was really look cool i could not wait for the game then i dropped off the face of the earth. Warhammer Online is just limping by. WO was a good fun game over the years. I play the f2p game for about 5 min it was not my style of game. I love all the WH RTS's i own them all and still play most of them on a regular bases. 

    I would Love to see any company really pick up the IP and give us the game they it has always deserves.

  • severiusseverius sacramento, CAPosts: 1,514Member Common
    Originally posted by Gorwe

     

    Now I am bitter and angry as well... Good job unleaded!

    lol

     

    image

    image
  • UnleadedRevUnleadedRev Boston, MAPosts: 387Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gorwe

    I can tell you what I heard from common sense and Pachter. Brace yourself for the truth:

    They are in it FOR MONEY first and EVERYTHING ELSE second.

    Also, I saw a post from some bloke on a site for Tabletop game reviews about what High ranking GW guy told him(GW guy to the gamestore that bloke owned)-it merely reinforces this truth:

    "...so he said to me that they are in it only to sell Tin bitz/figurines. ..."->that doesn't worry you even a bit?

    That's why they turned a blind eye to the Skaven+Dwarf debacle. That's why they allowed Wrath of Heroes in the first place. That's why they sign contracts with cheap studios(Slitherine comes to mind) because then they have pure profit. And you know our fasci overlords. They are all over that.

    Don't get me wrong. The best RTS(and RTT when I better think about it) that I played in recent years was Dawn of War(both). The best Themeparks I played were WAR and TSW(still playing this one). And I think that the best Total War game will be Total Warhammer. And I'd outright KILL(I mean this!) for a TES-like Warhammer Fantasy experience. Meh. I guess Warhammer quest is going to suffice >.<

    That ok unleaded? And I am often angry how everyone and their Grandma has understanding for failcraft, but not for what spawned failcraft. Meh, the skeins of fate are tangled.

    Now I am bitter and angry as well... Good job unleaded!

    Hi Gorwe, thanks.

    The thing is those DoW II games sold like hotcakes. They only suffered because despite making money, the devs and publisher Relic (was there another) mis-managed their own company as a whole. Correct?

    Also, are you from the UK? Reason I ask, is that even though Warhammer and Warhammer 40K are big here in the USA, I believe it all started in the UK and everything from WAR and WAR 40K books, tabletop games/figurines, and PC games are still the most popular in the UK?

    So in a nutshell, it would seem the main problem is Games Workshop doesnt care about the PC Games, as long as they get their cut and the IP is not violated, i.e. "Flintstones invade Praag" or something like that, Games Workshop is content to focus their resources on the figurine/TT market and doesnt care if every PC Game went kaput, as long as they get their initial cut?

    Geezuz...and yet..so many crap games survive...why cant our Warhammer games do so too?

    I've never been less hyped for a WoW expansion. Blizzard really needs to prove they can do something other then the whole infinite gear treadmill dance, slowly and painfully introduced.


  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,697Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by UnleadedRev

    IOS? 

    I am talking PC games, not consoles.

    My apologies, for not stating that.

    Do the DoW games have active websites with active forums being run by the Devs, with expansions and game updates?

    The makers of DoW have gone under? Who is supporting it?

    Please clarify.

    Heh, calling iOS a "console".  You crazy, guy.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • UnleadedRevUnleadedRev Boston, MAPosts: 387Member Uncommon

    I see that IOS is phone applications....my apologies.

    But yeah, consoles and IOS excluded...my concern is PC Games.

    I've never been less hyped for a WoW expansion. Blizzard really needs to prove they can do something other then the whole infinite gear treadmill dance, slowly and painfully introduced.


  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member
    Originally posted by UnleadedRev

    IOS? 

    I am talking PC games, not consoles.

    My apologies, for not stating that.

    Do the DoW games have active websites with active forums being run by the Devs, with expansions and game updates?

    The makers of DoW have gone under? Who is supporting it?

    Please clarify.

    Ah, you're looking for a never-ending single-player game. Forever supported by the developers. Gottcha.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by UnleadedRev

    IOS? 

    I am talking PC games, not consoles.

    My apologies, for not stating that.

    Do the DoW games have active websites with active forums being run by the Devs, with expansions and game updates?

    The makers of DoW have gone under? Who is supporting it?

    Please clarify.

    No one says iOS cannot have good games, and good games only happened on the PC.

    Warhammer Quest is an excellent turned-based RPG .. which i found lacking on the PC.

    BTW, WQ is great on an iPad. The iphone screen is a abit small for it, but works when i am out, and don't have my ipad with me.

  • UnleadedRevUnleadedRev Boston, MAPosts: 387Member Uncommon

    Wait!? Warhammer Quest was on the PC too?

    Doing google search...

    I've never been less hyped for a WoW expansion. Blizzard really needs to prove they can do something other then the whole infinite gear treadmill dance, slowly and painfully introduced.


  • severiusseverius sacramento, CAPosts: 1,514Member Common
    Originally posted by UnleadedRev
    Originally posted by Gorwe

    I can tell you what I heard from common sense and Pachter. Brace yourself for the truth:

    They are in it FOR MONEY first and EVERYTHING ELSE second.

    Also, I saw a post from some bloke on a site for Tabletop game reviews about what High ranking GW guy told him(GW guy to the gamestore that bloke owned)-it merely reinforces this truth:

    "...so he said to me that they are in it only to sell Tin bitz/figurines. ..."->that doesn't worry you even a bit?

    That's why they turned a blind eye to the Skaven+Dwarf debacle. That's why they allowed Wrath of Heroes in the first place. That's why they sign contracts with cheap studios(Slitherine comes to mind) because then they have pure profit. And you know our fasci overlords. They are all over that.

    Don't get me wrong. The best RTS(and RTT when I better think about it) that I played in recent years was Dawn of War(both). The best Themeparks I played were WAR and TSW(still playing this one). And I think that the best Total War game will be Total Warhammer. And I'd outright KILL(I mean this!) for a TES-like Warhammer Fantasy experience. Meh. I guess Warhammer quest is going to suffice >.<

    That ok unleaded? And I am often angry how everyone and their Grandma has understanding for failcraft, but not for what spawned failcraft. Meh, the skeins of fate are tangled.

    Now I am bitter and angry as well... Good job unleaded!

    Hi Gorwe, thanks.

    The thing is those DoW II games sold like hotcakes. They only suffered because despite making money, the devs and publisher Relic (was there another) mis-managed their own company as a whole. Correct?

    Also, are you from the UK? Reason I ask, is that even though Warhammer and Warhammer 40K are big here in the USA, I believe it all started in the UK and everything from WAR and WAR 40K books, tabletop games/figurines, and PC games are still the most popular in the UK?

    So in a nutshell, it would seem the main problem is Games Workshop doesnt care about the PC Games, as long as they get their cut and the IP is not violated, i.e. "Flintstones invade Praag" or something like that, Games Workshop is content to focus their resources on the figurine/TT market and doesnt care if every PC Game went kaput, as long as they get their initial cut?

    Geezuz...and yet..so many crap games survive...why cant our Warhammer games do so too?

    Well, history wouldn't exactly show that to be true.  Case in point is Warcraft: Orcs and Humans.  Complete game set in Warhammer universe presented on a silver platter and GW said no thank you.  Last year it was announced that Creative Assembly and Games Workshop had inked a Warhammer deal.  It was suspected that it would be announced at GDC.  Instead we get Total War: Arena.  What's up with that project I have no idea.

    Quick looksie for updates on reddit and around the internets initially came up empty until I came across this:

    It appears that question has been answered, as Relic game director Quinn Duffy revealed in a discussion with Eurogamer that at least one major 40k title, Dawn of War, still rests in the hands of Games Workshop. Still, Duffy is confident that a Relic-developed sequel is not out of the question:

    “Because it’s a license and it’s owned by Games Workshop, they have the opportunity to work that license with whoever they want. I would hope it would be us again. We had a great working relationship with Games Workshop. Sega is establishing one now with the fantasy license for Creative Assembly. There’s a strong possibility we’ll all be working together again on Dawn of War.”

    Might not be an mmorpg but damn I hope its effing great.  The one I can envision is.

    image

    image
  • jdnewelljdnewell Spring Hill, TNPosts: 2,150Member Uncommon

    I think GW has and always will be focused more on the tabletop and wargames than video games. I personally play 40k & Fantasy wargame with my brother and a few friends. They make a ton of money off the models, rulebooks, codex, paints, ect.

     

    I have also enjoyed the DoW series and other Warhammer games that have been released over the years. I also would like for more quality games to come out with this IP, but I am not holding my breath. After spending alot of money on the wargame, and seeing how much money others spend I think they are focused on that.

  • UnleadedRevUnleadedRev Boston, MAPosts: 387Member Uncommon

    Thats begs a question....Correct me if I am wrong, but SOE had to can SWG because Lucas Arts chose not to renew the IP to them?

    Could the same happen to Warhammer Online?

    I've never been less hyped for a WoW expansion. Blizzard really needs to prove they can do something other then the whole infinite gear treadmill dance, slowly and painfully introduced.


  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    have the OP play Dawn of War 2? Great WK40k game. On the PC. Available on Steam for cheap and lots of content.
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,900Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by severius
    Originally posted by UnleadedRev
    Originally posted by Gorwe

    I can tell you what I heard from common sense and Pachter. Brace yourself for the truth:

    They are in it FOR MONEY first and EVERYTHING ELSE second.

    Also, I saw a post from some bloke on a site for Tabletop game reviews about what High ranking GW guy told him(GW guy to the gamestore that bloke owned)-it merely reinforces this truth:

    "...so he said to me that they are in it only to sell Tin bitz/figurines. ..."->that doesn't worry you even a bit?

    That's why they turned a blind eye to the Skaven+Dwarf debacle. That's why they allowed Wrath of Heroes in the first place. That's why they sign contracts with cheap studios(Slitherine comes to mind) because then they have pure profit. And you know our fasci overlords. They are all over that.

    Don't get me wrong. The best RTS(and RTT when I better think about it) that I played in recent years was Dawn of War(both). The best Themeparks I played were WAR and TSW(still playing this one). And I think that the best Total War game will be Total Warhammer. And I'd outright KILL(I mean this!) for a TES-like Warhammer Fantasy experience. Meh. I guess Warhammer quest is going to suffice >.<

    That ok unleaded? And I am often angry how everyone and their Grandma has understanding for failcraft, but not for what spawned failcraft. Meh, the skeins of fate are tangled.

    Now I am bitter and angry as well... Good job unleaded!

    Hi Gorwe, thanks.

    The thing is those DoW II games sold like hotcakes. They only suffered because despite making money, the devs and publisher Relic (was there another) mis-managed their own company as a whole. Correct?

    Also, are you from the UK? Reason I ask, is that even though Warhammer and Warhammer 40K are big here in the USA, I believe it all started in the UK and everything from WAR and WAR 40K books, tabletop games/figurines, and PC games are still the most popular in the UK?

    So in a nutshell, it would seem the main problem is Games Workshop doesnt care about the PC Games, as long as they get their cut and the IP is not violated, i.e. "Flintstones invade Praag" or something like that, Games Workshop is content to focus their resources on the figurine/TT market and doesnt care if every PC Game went kaput, as long as they get their initial cut?

    Geezuz...and yet..so many crap games survive...why cant our Warhammer games do so too?

    Well, history wouldn't exactly show that to be true.  Case in point is Warcraft: Orcs and Humans.  Complete game set in Warhammer universe presented on a silver platter and GW said no thank you.  Last year it was announced that Creative Assembly and Games Workshop had inked a Warhammer deal.  It was suspected that it would be announced at GDC.  Instead we get Total War: Arena.  What's up with that project I have no idea.

    Quick looksie for updates on reddit and around the internets initially came up empty until I came across this:

    It appears that question has been answered, as Relic game director Quinn Duffy revealed in a discussion with Eurogamer that at least one major 40k title, Dawn of War, still rests in the hands of Games Workshop. Still, Duffy is confident that a Relic-developed sequel is not out of the question:

    “Because it’s a license and it’s owned by Games Workshop, they have the opportunity to work that license with whoever they want. I would hope it would be us again. We had a great working relationship with Games Workshop. Sega is establishing one now with the fantasy license for Creative Assembly. There’s a strong possibility we’ll all be working together again on Dawn of War.”

    Might not be an mmorpg but damn I hope its effing great.  The one I can envision is.

    I'd love to see CA (by far my favorite studio) put out a WH title, had no idea such a deal was even on the table let alone struck.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member
    Originally posted by UnleadedRev

    Thats begs a question....Correct me if I am wrong, but SOE had to can SWG because Lucas Arts chose not to renew the IP to them?

    Could the same happen to Warhammer Online?

    That can always happen with any IP and any company. Then tend to sign deals with how long they get the IP rights for video games and have to renew that from time to time.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,900Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by UnleadedRev

    Thats begs a question....Correct me if I am wrong, but SOE had to can SWG because Lucas Arts chose not to renew the IP to them?

    Could the same happen to Warhammer Online?

    It was supposedly a joint decision to discontinue the licensed partnership.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    OP said he wants a reply from those who know the game industry. image

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    OP said he wants a reply from those who know the game industry. image

    This place is a toxic wasteland to those types.

     

     

    So we're helping him out instead. image

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • UnleadedRevUnleadedRev Boston, MAPosts: 387Member Uncommon

    Well, at this point I am grateful for everyone's responses.

    Yep, I played the DoW II series...loved it. But I have not played it in a long time.

    I think Microsoft Games for Windows (screams) or whatever their game hosting thing is called somehow deleted all my progress,

    I've never been less hyped for a WoW expansion. Blizzard really needs to prove they can do something other then the whole infinite gear treadmill dance, slowly and painfully introduced.


  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member

    slitherine games is making a 40k game called warhammer 40k Armageddon. It's a turn based hex game due out next year. I hope they don't follow in the footsteps of the abortion that is mechwarrior tactics.

    I've heard they're taking a lot from panzer corps ...so...that would be pretty awesome.

     

    http://www.slitherine.com/news/item627

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