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Should there be hunger in an mmorpg?
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But you ARE advocating waste as immersion. If you adopt a system such as eating for immersion what separates it from adopting waste as an immersion? Because you think it is nasty? Is that the only reason? It's the only difference I can see.
You want eating because it is what we do in real life and it will make you feel more like the game is real.
Waste is what we do in real life and it will certainly make the game more real in a boring mundane way.
No difference.
So by arguing for eating you are by coincidence of similarity arguing for waste.
So let's get back to the part that says yes to eating because that is good and no to waste because that is bad. The nasty part.
I know vegans who hate watching people eat meat, it makes them ill. Are you saying that including eating wouldn't be nasty to them? So now that we have expanded our point of view, you can see there is no difference between advocating one over the other. They are incidental niche systems most would find tedious and you few would find engaging.... for a while.
And for the record this isn't hyperbole. Using the waste system as an example is not taking the request out of context, it is illustrating its basic attributes by contrast. We are not engaging in hyperbolic rhetoric by saying no to both, we are defending the current moderation. You are asking for the extreme. You just don't see it as such so an extreme that is the same as yours just mirrored is by your point of view hyperbole. We see them both as unnecessary extremes.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Strange place to go when we're advocating adding neither system and just leave the whole thing out of games, and you're the ones asking for a gastrointestinal minigame added to MMOs. Your post seems less about game systems and more about an unreconciled childhood phobia.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Internet noise/spam is a waste of time except for that it presents endless opportunities for brilliant retorts. Well said, ReallyNow10, and so obvious as to make the entire contending argument look rediculous. ROFL.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I played a game with this in about 30 years ago, it was pathetic.
Eat every 5 minutes or collapse on the ground, not able to move, not even to go back to the shop because you forgot to buy food!
So, for me, in a word:
NO!!!
Agreed. The rest of us don't need to be subjected to tedium for those who want to avoid their real life mental terrors. It's a game, not a second chance.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Thanks for the link but I have already purchased that game as soon as it was released.
So... I take it no one here ever played Wurm Online?
I'll not bother elaborating on the mechanics of hunger in said game, but sufficient to say the implementation does not penalize you (excessively, beyond a certain point) for failing to eat, but rewards players who do consume regular meals.
Indeed, I distinctly recall the first village I ever joined, Scorpion Stone, became a terrifically close-knit group as we came to depend so much upon one another; we had our dedicated smith who provided our tools and weapons, a gaggle of carpenters who constructed the houses and harvested the trees for lumber, our foragers who brought in game and wild plants, a slew of miners that tunneled under and around the city, a single merchant who wandered from one town to another, constantly seeking out new players to join us or good deals on products, along with two cooks, one of whom ran an inn at the entrance to the town (open to all who passed by) and the other was responsible solely for creating, storing and distributing high-quality meals to the citizens of SS.
The mechanic might have been considered a dull and tedious affair if flying solo, one that would demand hours of time to merely ward off eventual starvation, yet instead it motivated us to work together. By delegating responsibilities, each according to their desire, we constructed what remained, for several years, the finest town in all of the server. We had stables, a city planner, ordered housing, multi-tiered farms and an expansive bay, hand-dug and paved, with boats for every villager. Each adventure was precipitated by a visit to the inn, where we stocked up on provisions for the journey ahead. One of my fondest memories stems from a round-the-isle trek a small band of us undertook, during which we neglected to bring food. Lo and behold, by the third day we were scavenging every plant we chanced across and running from scorpions, cougars and bears, even leaping off cliffs (with several hilarious fatalities) to evade their attacks, our frail bodies wracked by hunger. The sense of danger from so simple a thing was marvelous and the escapades it engendered were hilarious. We had one member, a relative newcomer, who was so desperate he attacked a massive horse, despite having next to no stamina, hoping to bring it down and get some meat; he died, but in so tragic a manner it was spoken of for weeks. I should also mention that, at the time, it was possible to butcher other players. As such, we ate him.
Of course, Wurm was a survival simulator...
Also, why do so many of you feel the need to equate the addition of a hunger mechanic with a waste one? I cannot even begin to count the number of "why don't you add a taking a **** ability too" remarks before my mind began actively blocking them out. Here's one for you, why don't we add a breathing-mechanic too? Huh? You must regularly tap the Enter key to inhale and exhale. How about a blinking mechanic? Left Alt for the left eye, right Alt for the right eye. Just think of the possibilities, you could wink at random people! How about this? A sweating mechanic. Failure to regularly wash and you generate a "stench" that reduces the stats of your party. Brilliant, right? Right?
No? Of course not, because one system adds an element of survival, the other contributes nothing of value whatsoever.
[mod edit]
EDIT: I would appreciate the courtesy of a PM if you, mister anonymous moderator, should dub my remark ("...blithering idiots") so ridiculously offensive it demands revision. Considering some of the language I've seen on this forum, and the fact that mine was not directed at anyone in particular and thus unlikely to cause offense, I find this sort of action to be rather invasive and overbearing. For my part, I sincerely doubt anyone who reads this far into the thread will be offended when I state that someone who equates a hunger mechanic with taking a dump is, in fact, an idiot.
ROFL another fine exmaple.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
What MMOs really need are fitness clubs, sports drinks, and GNC stores... don't forget gluten free items... because we all know, gluten is this generations' version of saccharin. Have to eradicate it because the sports nuts says it's evil (forget the fact that only a portion of the population has an allergy to it). The lactose intolerant should campaign for the removal of milk because they can't or shouldn't drink it. Imagine the in game wars over it... NO! You're not going to remove Stout from the game because it has gluten in it!
That sounds retarded lol, but every feature of a game can be inplemented poorly or very well. FFA pvp where you get zerged and forced to log of on a respad is bad, but I absolutely love ffa pvp. Raiding in a game where the boss has a 50% chance to reset upon defeat will ragequit most ppl, but most here love raiding. Eating every 5 mins sounds retarded. Would be better is it was on par with a day night sequel in an mmorpg so you need to eat every hour or few hours or so, so you have 2/3 meals a day ingame.
What would make it interesting is how you manage your backpack with it. You carry meals with you or just the weapons/tools to capture/make food? How will you spent your limited backpack space? (Yeah I think it's retared that you can carry 5 sets of armor and you can gather 5000 iron and carry it around)
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Imagery is cool .. for 15 second. Can you imagine watching someone eat for the whole movie? And was it fun to "play"?
And yes, having boring food mechanics is in the way of fun. Different preferences, certainly.
Look at WOW. It has cooking and people do it. Was it for the fun, or was it for the buff that deemed mandatory before a boss encounter? I will let you decide.
Ooh, the possibilities! You could write your name in fluorescent yellow on the snow... mark your campsite and keep the shyer, more polite wolves away... I like it!
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Writing your name on the snow... It would instantly make the game sandbox, no?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Yeah funny but all mentioned above will be abused by ppl. Funcom added it to their game Age of Conan but removed it shortly after launch. GM's didn't liked to get litterally pissed on: http://i40.tinypic.com/se213l.png
So for the sake of this topic let's just stick to hunger
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Lol. I had forgotten about that. Hilarious picture.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Yes. And as we all know, with sandbox aficionados, if you piss on it, they will come.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Note that cooking is not the same as hunger.
There is cooking in WOW, and people use it but it is no different from a buffing system. If you call it a "potion system", it makes little difference.
There is no hunger, and you won't die or be impeded if you don't eat for a long time.
I highly doubt the concept of hunger will work well in games with a focus on pve dungeons, and pvp arenas. All that does is to make you trek to town more frequently, and that will be seen as nothing but a chore. That is why ammo management is eliminated from WOW, and few games requires that.
As I stated before it can very well make sense in games with focus on pve dungeons, though I can't imagine any good use in pvp arena-like situations. I'm talking "hunger" as the survival aspect (as in the need of eating corpses, otherwise you would starve to death) but not the common concept of buffing (which would involve cooking as just another branch of crafting).
I suppose i am not being very clear. Today's PvE dungeon focus on combat, loot, and progression. I haven't seen any focus on survival.
It is true that if survival is the core game mechanics, like in a horror game, than hunger probably makes a reasonable game mechanics. We probably want to call it out as "survival games" .. cause pve dungeon it is not.
As long as you refer to the well known mainstream MMOs for kids (which I'd say 98% of all MMOs currently are) I agree. Which doesn't mean food mechanics have to be boring, they just currently are (in all MMOs that have it and that I'm aware of).
And btw. a good MMO shouldn't be the same as watching a movie, so I don't quite accept your "imagery" example. Otherwise you could as well compare MMOs with real life and there is hunger.
I can agree on that but then it all boils down to the fact that all current MMOs are following the same age-old boring schemes.