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That MMO die so fast is the result of F2P.

WaterlilyWaterlily parisPosts: 2,973Member Uncommon

Have you noticed how there are hundreds of MMO but they all die off in a matter of months.

Have you noticed that people jump from MMO to MMO.

Have you noticed how communities in MMO are dead, no one really gives a damn anymore.

Have you noticed how you seem to level to the cap in a matter of weeks.

 

In a F2P MMO all the freeloaders bail the ship once they hit the paywall after a few weeks, the ones who get tired of having to pay to progress bail the ship a few weeks after, and the whales is all that's left, but they jump ship too once they realise they're competing against themselves and no longer have a monetary edge over freeloaders.

As a result, no one joins older F2P, since they would need to spend hundreds of dollars to compete with the whales. The MMO simply die.

As a result the quality of the MMO goes down too, since the companies make dying MMO after dying MMO, to rake in cash from the whales.

In China MMo last a couple of months, and they shut them down. This is the future of F2P MMO, completely meaningless casino adventures. Congorats.

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Comments

  • RadshakRadshak Syracuse, UTPosts: 36Member

    Sadly this is all mostly true.

     

    Years have gone by since 1997 and the release of Ultima Online and still waiting for the one good sandbox.

     

  • dgarbinidgarbini San Jose, CAPosts: 185Member
    How many threads are you going to start on this topic?  Isn't there several floating around already?
  • PieRadPieRad Odense MPosts: 1,108Member
    Originally posted by dgarbini
    How many threads are you going to start on this topic?  Isn't there several floating around already?

    There can't be enough of these threads, people need to understand.

    image

  • anemoanemo Posts: 761Member Uncommon

    I'll have to say this argument is pretty boring.

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "There are still vast swaths of our planet's surface in which it's surprisingly easy to lose things. Even a ship the size of a large building." Richard Fisher

  • DewulfDewulf JoensuuPosts: 99Member Uncommon

    Old games that has turned in to f2p doesn't mean they have to put lots of money in to it.

    There is still the "monthly fee" in f2p which is the same as before.

    If u pay 13 e per month for premium that is the same as monthly fee in the game and u never have to even buy any stuff.

    F2P just makes blind people to buy stuff from the store instead of just buying the premium.

    F2P is for the kids and the dudes who doesn't want to spend any money to the game that they enjoy so much.

    Usually f2p is something best that can happen for the dying mmo as it brings so much more people to the game.

    Let's look at the Lotro, it would be pretty much dead without the f2p system right now.

    I remember playing on evernight server with small playerbase and when the f2p came it went so high.

    There is still higher playerbase in that server than before f2p..

     

    To the people that dislike f2p, u dont have to buy anything from the store if u dont want to its just an OPTION and u can IGNORE IT. 

    Have you ever thought that dying mmo's that turns in to F2P will earn more money than being just a monthly fee game?

    And when the developers get more money, there will be more content in the game and when there will be more content in the game there will be more players and the game community grows and there will be more life in the game.

     

    Hope you understood this concept better, thank you.

  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,857Member Uncommon

    Have you noticed how players tended to stick with MMO's longer a decade ago because there were less options and less people playing them?

    Have you noticed how players cared more about community and actually gave a damn because the game was designed around reliance with others to succeed?

    Look, I'm not disagreeing with the OP, but it's not as black and white as a payment model.

  • ArskaaaArskaaa KauhajokiPosts: 842Member Uncommon
    There is not any sandbox game where people want live. most new mmos offer better look but is same old with empty world.
  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member

    They die as a combination of a themepark/WoW clone design that make people focus on short term burn content without making lasting community connections. Now people bring their own communities with them (small groups of real life friends) burn through the free content, and move on.

     

    Making everything easy and transient has sabotaged the genre. The only devs making money are those that have realized this design flaw. It's not just the devs fault though, its mostly the publishers that just want you to clone WoW or you don't get any money.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,498Member Uncommon

    If anything, MMOs die so fast because they release with a P2P model. The most recent examples are SWTOR and TSW which lost record numbers of people faster than any MMOs before them. F2P and B2P respectively helped to save those games from failure. Even WoW, the beast that never dies, is dropping subs at a record rate.

     

    I don't know where you get the idea that P2P games aren't dying fast. Sub-only payment models are the reason that these games died so fast and F2P/B2P models are the reason they were revitalized.

  • RadshakRadshak Syracuse, UTPosts: 36Member
    Originally posted by colddog04

    If anything, MMOs die so fast because they release with a P2P model. The most recent examples are SWTOR and TSW which lost record numbers of people faster than any MMOs before them. F2P and B2P respectively helped to save those games from failure. Even WoW, the beast that never dies, is dropping subs at a record rate.

     

    I don't know where you get the idea that P2P games aren't dying fast. Sub-only payment models are the reason that these games died so fast and F2P/B2P models are the reason they were revitalized.

    Those game died cause they sucked period. 

    One big donkeys behind Themepark.

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member

    Hyperbole.

    Assumption.

    Gross exaggeration.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,498Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Radshak
    Originally posted by colddog04

    If anything, MMOs die so fast because they release with a P2P model. The most recent examples are SWTOR and TSW which lost record numbers of people faster than any MMOs before them. F2P and B2P respectively helped to save those games from failure. Even WoW, the beast that never dies, is dropping subs at a record rate.

     

    I don't know where you get the idea that P2P games aren't dying fast. Sub-only payment models are the reason that these games died so fast and F2P/B2P models are the reason they were revitalized.

    Those game died cause they sucked period. 

    One big donkeys behind Themepark.

    And yet 500k people are subbed to SWTOR with another 1.7 million playing free. And there are many people, especially on this site, that enjoy TSW immensely.

     

    They don't "suck period." That's your opinion amongst a horde of people that disagree with you. And really, the people that are playing those games don't care what you think at all.

  • BoneserinoBoneserino London, ONPosts: 1,623Member Uncommon

    It is the players, not the MMO's, that are the problem.

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  • XzenXzen Los Alamos, NMPosts: 2,607Member Common
    I don't think the business model has anything to do with it. I don't stay in mmorpgs for long because of the toxic communities. Some of the most toxic communities I've come across have been in subscription based games while the least toxic have been in B2P and F2P. In the end the communities in all of them are so bad I end up soloing what is supposed to be a "massive multiplayer" game.
  • isslingissling San Francisco, CAPosts: 156Member Uncommon
    Saying those games failed because of a monthly sub is just as silly, I am not a fan of the f2p, but I think all the current crop of mmo's just cant keep peoples attentions and has nothing to do with pay model.
  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member

    I just love it when people make bold statements like MMOs are dying because of going F2P when data points to the opposite happening.  Pretty much every MMO that went from a sub model to F2P have seen a resurgence in revenue and players.

    Is F2P always a good thing?  In my opinion, no.  Every company seems to throw in pay to win elements here and there and refuse to risk just going with cosmetic/convenience cash shops.  Is F2P necessarily a bad thing?  Again, I think not.  Once a company risks it and finds that with a fair cash shop that doesn't have any P2W elements actually generates revenue because it makes your game extremely popular (case and point:  MOBAs) and more non-whales tend to stick around and eventually drop money on the game.

    GW2 was a good start for example, but even their cash shop has slight P2W elements (particularly revive orbs in PvE) and lots of bloat and useless crap in it.  If they made things a little more attractive cosmetically such as making town clothes usable in combat, making minis in a separate tab that doesn't waste inventory space, and more things like backpacks and weapon skins then I personally would have spent a lot more in the cash shop than I did.

    Have you noticed how there are hundreds of MMO (sic) but they all die off in a matter of months.

    For example?  If we are talking about horrible MMOs that are pumped out regularly in China/Korea that have no redeeming gameplay qualities than maybe.  I don't think that has anything to do with F2P, that has to do with bad MMOs.

    Have you noticed that people jump from MMO to MMO.

    And there is something wrong with this why?  I don't understand why people think you have to be forced to play a MMO for years.  I'm not sure what F2P has to do with this either, if anything F2P allows you to return to the game without investment.

    Have you noticed how communities in MMO are dead, no one really gives a damn anymore.

    Join a guild or gaming community and you don't have to worry about community.  I don't see why it's so important to have a "server community" when you can form a community of your own and not have to worry about others ruining your experience.  Yes, F2P can have a negative effect in the community since it lets literally EVERYONE try the game, but anyone complaining about community seriously just needs to join a good guild.

    Have you noticed how you seem to level to the cap in a matter of weeks.

    Actually it's usually made harder to hit level cap in a F2P game, since they want you to grind content more in order to spend money on things like boosters.  Yes, it's significantly easier to hit level cap in most modern MMOs, but this is a result of trying to appeal to more casual players wanting to be on similar progression as hardcore players not a result of F2P.

    image

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  • iamflymoloiamflymolo Hampton, TNPosts: 152Member
    Originally posted by AIMonster

    I just love it when people make bold statements like MMOs are dying because of going F2P when data points to the opposite happening.  Pretty much every MMO that went from a sub model to F2P have seen a resurgence in revenue and players.

    Is F2P always a good thing?  In my opinion, no.  Every company seems to throw in pay to win elements here and there and refuse to risk just going with cosmetic/convenience cash shops.  Is F2P necessarily a bad thing?  Again, I think not.  Once a company risks it and finds that with a fair cash shop that doesn't have any P2W elements actually generates revenue because it makes your game extremely popular (case and point:  MOBAs) and more non-whales tend to stick around and eventually drop money on the game.

    GW2 was a good start for example, but even their cash shop has slight P2W elements (particularly revive orbs in PvE) and lots of bloat and useless crap in it.  If they made things a little more attractive cosmetically such as making town clothes usable in combat, making minis in a separate tab that doesn't waste inventory space, and more things like backpacks and weapon skins then I personally would have spent a lot more in the cash shop than I did.

    Have you noticed how there are hundreds of MMO (sic) but they all die off in a matter of months.

    For example?  If we are talking about horrible MMOs that are pumped out regularly in China/Korea that have no redeeming gameplay qualities than maybe.  I don't think that has anything to do with F2P, that has to do with bad MMOs.

    Have you noticed that people jump from MMO to MMO.

    And there is something wrong with this why?  I don't understand why people think you have to be forced to play a MMO for years.  I'm not sure what F2P has to do with this either, if anything F2P allows you to return to the game without investment.

    Have you noticed how communities in MMO are dead, no one really gives a damn anymore.

    Join a guild or gaming community and you don't have to worry about community.  I don't see why it's so important to have a "server community" when you can form a community of your own and not have to worry about others ruining your experience.  Yes, F2P can have a negative effect in the community since it lets literally EVERYONE try the game, but anyone complaining about community seriously just needs to join a good guild.

    Have you noticed how you seem to level to the cap in a matter of weeks.

    Actually it's usually made harder to hit level cap in a F2P game, since they want you to grind content more in order to spend money on things like boosters.  Yes, it's significantly easier to hit level cap in most modern MMOs, but this is a result of trying to appeal to more casual players wanting to be on similar progression as hardcore players not a result of F2P.

    Thanks for this! I now no longer feel the need to reply to this thread!

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,924Member Uncommon

    While i feel F2P is part of the cause, its a bit different then you put it in. While the issue of 'paying' can be a problem, particularly if its rediculously expensive, I feel people WOULD do it anyways if it wasn't for another issue with F2P... choice.

     

    We get so many games, all of which we can try so freely that its hard to build dedication to one game. I can remember countless past MMos I spent so much time on playing, not at all even thinking about moving on until giving it a chance. Now with so many games to try and play, I just don't feel like giving any effort on it. Free games I'll play 5 minutes, come to a conclusion and so quickly move on. While I still feel a desire to try a pay game, its no where near the effort I had in the past, quick to give up on it if it doesn't suit my fancy.  

     

    We have so many options, and with it all being "F2P', it just lowers our willingness to 'give things a chance'. This is even coming to play on games we pay for up front. Giving GW2 a try, I just completely felt a distaste for it right away and 2 hours in I realized it wasn't very good. Yes, despite fanboi raving its got plenty of flaws behind it (many being core gameplay issues that really drag it down) which would be expected I would not play it for very long, the fact I practically had to force myself to give it a try and force myself to max level when I could easily of done it in the past with other games I wasn't huge on I paid for (Age of Conan being an example) just goes to show my tolerance just fell flat on its face. I just lose that enthusiasm that had glossed over game flaws for me in the past and its I feel due to F2P giving us so many options. 

  • SvarcanumSvarcanum SthlmPosts: 341Member Uncommon
    I mostly agree with the OP. F2P and B2P destroys what I love about the genre. Flip side is I get to see endgame in a new mmo every month...
  • InsaneDalekInsaneDalek Detroit, MIPosts: 119Member

    The reason they fail so quickly is because the market is oversaturated, and most MMOs these days are of sub-par quality regardless of payment model.

     

    It's a sad day indeed when a family is too afraid of reprisals to publicly thank somebody for saving their lives.

  • NeVeRLiFtNeVeRLiFt Cleveland, TNPosts: 377Member Uncommon

    MMO's die off because they are themepark with no end-game.

    People ride the rides and are then done with it.

     

     

    Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS
    Playing: Sims 4, Diablo3, TSW & LoTRO
    Waiting on: Everquest Next, BlackDesert, Camelot Unchained & Pathfinder Online!
    Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by colddog04

    If anything, MMOs die so fast because they release with a P2P model. The most recent examples are SWTOR and TSW which lost record numbers of people faster than any MMOs before them.

    No, they didn't. Even FTP MMOs die quickly. For themeparks you get the most money you can by launching first as P2P to make money off box sales, then release FTP for some rehyped press and to get people playing again.

    Monthly fees have been fine for the vast majority of MMO gamers since the genre first came into existence. People were okay even paying by the minute so long as the game is good. Let's blame this on bad game design and bad games, not billing. If something is good, people pay for it.

  • TheJodaTheJoda chicago, ILPosts: 467Member
    Originally posted by Waterlily

    Have you noticed how there are hundreds of MMO but they all die off in a matter of months.

    Have you noticed that people jump from MMO to MMO.

    Have you noticed how communities in MMO are dead, no one really gives a damn anymore.

    Have you noticed how you seem to level to the cap in a matter of weeks.

     

    In a F2P MMO all the freeloaders bail the ship once they hit the paywall after a few weeks, the ones who get tired of having to pay to progress bail the ship a few weeks after, and the whales is all that's left, but they jump ship too once they realise they're competing against themselves and no longer have a monetary edge over freeloaders.

    As a result, no one joins older F2P, since they would need to spend hundreds of dollars to compete with the whales. The MMO simply die.

    As a result the quality of the MMO goes down too, since the companies make dying MMO after dying MMO, to rake in cash from the whales.

    In China MMo last a couple of months, and they shut them down. This is the future of F2P MMO, completely meaningless casino adventures. Congorats.

    ^ +1  I agree fully!

    ....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,498Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by colddog04

    If anything, MMOs die so fast because they release with a P2P model. The most recent examples are SWTOR and TSW which lost record numbers of people faster than any MMOs before them.

    No, they didn't. Even FTP MMOs die quickly. For themeparks you get the most money you can by launching first as P2P to make money off box sales, then release FTP for some rehyped press and to get people playing again.

    Monthly fees have been fine for the vast majority of MMO gamers since the genre first came into existence. People were okay even paying by the minute so long as the game is good. Let's blame this on bad game design and bad games, not billing. If something is good, people pay for it.

    Sorry, but they did.

     

    And people are paying for F2P games. SWTOR has 500k subs with 1.7 million people playing free (a portion of which spends money). So really your argument is not sound. People ARE paying for games that they personally consider good. You just don't agree that the games are good.

     

    Really, the developers are making MORE money on F2P games now and there are MORE people playing them. The sub only model only exists in a few games. I don't know why those facts are difficult for people. Even since the data that showed F2P games making more money, WoW has lost 1.3 million subscribers and Rift has gone F2P.

     

    F2P models have saved a lot of P2P MMOs from annihilation, not the other way around. I agree that we shouldn't ONLY blame the payment model for an extreme lack of interest in some games, but right now the market is so competitive, that the payment model is playing a huge part in it. It's going to be really difficult for even great games to compete without considering, at the very minimum, a hybrid model at release from this point forward.

  • BoneserinoBoneserino London, ONPosts: 1,623Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by colddog04

    If anything, MMOs die so fast because they release with a P2P model. The most recent examples are SWTOR and TSW which lost record numbers of people faster than any MMOs before them.

    No, they didn't. Even FTP MMOs die quickly. For themeparks you get the most money you can by launching first as P2P to make money off box sales, then release FTP for some rehyped press and to get people playing again.

    Monthly fees have been fine for the vast majority of MMO gamers since the genre first came into existence. People were okay even paying by the minute so long as the game is good. Let's blame this on bad game design and bad games, not billing. If something is good, people pay for it.

    Oh my!!

    First off, people were ok paying subs at the start , BECAUSE THEY HAD NO OTHER CHOICE!!   Yes my choice is pay or not play......hmm I guess I will play.    I remember my first MMO  E and B.   I ended up cancelling my subscription after 5 or 6 months because I felt I wasn't playing the game enough to justify that money.  It always happens after the initial rush wears off.  I eventually came back because I missed the game.   The point is I gave up a lot of time I could have played because of sub costs.  And the game ended up being one of the first to shut down because of lost subscribers.   If F2P had been an option then that game might still be around today.   

    And I noticed this fact in my first MMO!!  What are MMO devs supposed to do!  Keep spending millions of dollars until they create a game that you like and will pay 15 per month in perpetuity??  Or try to appeal to the most people possible so that everyone gets a chance to play their game and see if they like it?

    No lets put the blame where it belongs.   On P2P fanatics who refuse to support their own games.  And that is you!

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

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