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MMORPGs Are Dead -- How to Resurrect the Genre

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  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by ColumbiaTrue

    The quest. The journey. The world. The community. The essential ingredients combined to create an enriching, complex, and satisfying---indeed memorable---MMORPG experience. Today's games fall sort of creating lasting, lifelong memories. Instead, they are designed to provide temporary, fleeting contentment. 

    An MMORPG should not just be about the game itself. An MMORPG is more than gaming. It is about building genuine, authentic relationships in an environment conducive to building bonds of friendship. 

    An MMORPG world has to feel rich, diverse, and dynamic. Most MMORPG worlds are so static and stale that I cannot bear to play them --- even for free.

    The journey. An individual, unique, and customized character. Different from but similar to others. A part of the world and a part of a community. However, the opportunity to define one's own destiny, choose a path (create a path).

    Some MMOs are doing some of the things you're asking for.

    The main issue is you (and others as well) are expecting the game to do all the work for you. You talk about things like the journey, lasting memories & experiences, community, etc. These are things that a game can't just hand you. The most a game can ever do (and has ever done) is to provide a stage, and environment for which such things are possible. It's up to the players to create such things for themselves.

    And that lies the root of the problem. While some games are definitely too shallow to allow for such things. Others aren't. However that doesn't deter players from complaining about these things not existing. Things like having a fun community need to be built by the players. You see this a lot in GW2. Some servers, the players just bitch about there being no community, others.. they make their own and it's amazing.

    MMOs of the past seemed to do this for the players, because there weren't any options. You had only a few MMOs that everyone was playing. It was also still new, so people still felt like they were exploring a new game, even when they were all essentially the same. It's was a new phenomina. Now, we're starting to see the cracks, the downsides to an MMO, the limits to such games. The honeymoon phase has long since ended, and we're forced to deal w/ the reality of what an MMO is, and more importantly, what it isn't.

  • keenberkeenber Member UncommonPosts: 438

    I do belive MMORPG is dead but making much more cash as what i would call a single player instanced online RPG .

    There has been so much money about in the last 10 years that every greedy developer has had his hand out for the fast buck but i do belive that with the economy the way it is going that will soon dry up and companys will find they need to create a better more player friendly community environment .

    Developers will soon find that it is much cheaper to create a long lasting game that pay a monthly fee than spend $100s of millions and years creating a one month game with a cash shop in the hope of that quick buck.

    I had hope for a lot of the new games coming out like AA,ESO and repop but as they all gonna be F2P i have lost all interest in them and all the rest of the junk that is coming out the only one that may but i am beging to have my doubts is EQN with its hybrid sub/F2P plan. I hope i am wrong and these games will be great but i been burnt too much in the past 10 years.

    Don't know why developers cant create a sub server and F2P servers and merge them later if needed.

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Member RarePosts: 1,607
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    Originally posted by simsalabim77
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    Originally posted by simsalabim77
    The genre hasn't died and it's not dying. The jaded, burned out vets are the vocal (very vocal) minority. Way more people are enjoying MMO's right now than there are people who constantly lament the death of the genre on forums. 

    is this your opinion or a fact ?

     

    It's a fact. What percentage of all MMO players do you think constantly whine on various forums about how the genre is dying?Contrast that with the amount of players who happily go about their playtime without a care in the world as to what is happening to the genre.

    so it's a hypothesis.

     

    I often see posts made in the name of the 'silent majority' and they're always hostile towards the forumgoers.

     

    and every time I ask myself...how does this poster know what the silent majority wants when nobody else - not even developers - do not ? And then I start thinking...he's on the forums. the silent majority is not. Is he really one of them ? or is he one of us ? what if BECAUSE he's not one of us he pretends he's one of them ? what if he's a PHONY!!

     

    So tell us, for my and others curiosity, how do you have an inside information on the silent majority and nobody else does ? What makes you that special ? Who are you ? Are you The One ?

     

     

     

    Whiners on forums are and always will be the vocal minority. The genre continues to grow every year in terms of profit and playerbase. Do you really think there's millions of people that collectively pay billions of dollars who, in reality, think the genre sucks and is dying? No. The minority spouts the same rhetoric year after year, and year after year the genre continues to expand. 

    As of 2012, there were an estimated 400 million players globally. The industry was worth 13 billion dollars. The genre is healthy. This website is filled with old timers who love to have their circle jerks about how terrible the genre is and how it's dying a slow death, but the opposite is true. 

    I don't know what the majority wants, but it seems to me that they're spending a metric shitton of money, so presumably they enjoy and want more of whatever it is they're spending money on. 

    I'll show myself out and let you guys continue to tell everyone about the sky that has been falling since 2004. 

  • AdokasAdokas Member CommonPosts: 217

    The genre is hardly dead. It seems alive and well. If that's a good thing, in it's current state, well that's subjective as hell, as everyone has their own take on that.

    I don't care if it's a new type of themepark, a new sandbox or a hybrid, whatever really. Just release a high quality game with depth and longevity for once, and I'm sure it could truck on happily as a P2P game.

    I'm sick of games that are essentially World of Warcraft in a different skin.

  • TheHavokTheHavok Member UncommonPosts: 2,423
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    can we see some evidence of this fact ?

    http://www.superdataresearch.com/global-mmo-games-spending-exceeds-12bn/

    Of course this is data from over a year ago but I think its correct on a lot of points including:

    -The number of people playing MMOs is increasing.

    -The percentage of people that play MMOs who spend is increasing.

    -Estimated 12 billion dollars spent in MMOs in 2012.

    -Forecast 17.5 billion dollars spent in MMOs in 2015.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by PWN_FACE

    If a minority raises a contrary opinion about what the genre should be, you suggest just stfu and gtfo, right?

    Pretty much.

    No one gives a damn about your personal qualifiers how the world should be spinning.

  • JenuvielJenuviel Member Posts: 960

    I don't think we're going to see much new and exciting out of the MMO industry until the cost to create and distribute quality games drops to about what it costs to create and distribute an independent film today. While the film industry isn't a perfect analogue, it's similarly driven by huge, formulaic, explode-a-riffic Michael Bay films that put butts in seats. Unlike the game industry, though, the major film studios spend some of their money on art films to gain attention, critical acclaim and credibility during awards season, even if it means taking a loss. There's no comparison to that in the gaming industry, because there's not really a "best picture" equivalent, just a "biggest blockbuster." You don't need to make art to be taken seriously in the game industry, you just need to make money.

     

    That means the only real hope for specialized content, for artistic vision, for daring design, is going to have to come from independent designers, similar to the service independent films provide. The major difference is that the cost to make independent films has dropped significantly in recent years, while the quality has shot up. The costs in MMO design may have come down in some areas (engine licensing, middleware licensing, digital distribution, bandwidth costs, storage costs), but not enough, and the disparity in production quality between independents and AAA studios is as large as it ever was, if not larger. That's an issue, and it's one only time (probably a great deal of it) will be able to fix. Of course, all of this assumes PC gaming will even exist 10-15 years from now, which I'm no longer as certain of as I once was.

  • AdokasAdokas Member CommonPosts: 217
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by PWN_FACE

    If a minority raises a contrary opinion about what the genre should be, you suggest just stfu and gtfo, right?

     

    Pretty much.

    No one gives a damn about your personal qualifiers how the world should be spinning.

    This response is just ridiculous. If you don't care, don't post. This is a forum for discussion, yes? If you don't like it, gtfo. Yeah, right?

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by AdokasThis is a forum for discussion, yes?

    In order to discuss a topic, there must be some substance - that is usually reasoning or some fact. There is no sense in threads like this. It is just silly venting and ranting.

    Person A: I want MMOs to be like this..
    Person B: I want MMOs to be like that..

    Fact is, MMOs are what they are. If you cannot deal with it, yeah, you should gtfo since it does not lead to any discussion.

  • AdokasAdokas Member CommonPosts: 217
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Adokas

    This is a forum for discussion, yes?

     

    In order to discuss a topic, there must be some substance - that is usually reasoning. There is no sense in threads like this. It is just silly venting and ranting.

    I agree somewhat, but not fully. :P

    This thread, while there's ranting and venting, is still relevant enough. People get their opinions aired, discussed and countered, no matter which way you go. That's always a good thing. Whether people feel the MMO genre is dead or not can never really be decided finally by anyone here, but it's still a decent subject to discuss, because everyone has different views about what's good and bad with the genre, and the why and how, things are as they are. Discussing those views with each other, even if aggressively sometimes, is not useless. It's fun and interesting.

  • KazuhiroKazuhiro Member UncommonPosts: 606
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Adokas

    This is a forum for discussion, yes?

     

    In order to discuss a topic, there must be some substance - that is usually reasoning. There is no sense in threads like this. It is just silly venting and ranting.

    That door swings both ways. Yours adds your personal opinion just as much as his. And by your reasoning, your thoughts on the matter are also silly ranting, and equally devoid of anyone giving a damn.

    Anyway, onto the topic at hand, I can also agree mmos as they were meant to be are now virtually dead. (A few still cling to life. but no new ones are being made regularly.)

    To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by Adokas

    People get their opinions aired, discussed and countered, no matter which way you go.

    False.

    Opinions are not a subject of any discussion(as pointed above), the reasoning backing them up is. Threads like this are lacking that substance.

  • ShaighShaigh Member EpicPosts: 2,142
    Originally posted by Adokas

    The genre is hardly dead. It seems alive and well. If that's a good thing, in it's current state, well that's subjective as hell, as everyone has their own take on that.

    I don't care if it's a new type of themepark, a new sandbox or a hybrid, whatever really. Just release a high quality game with depth and longevity for once, and I'm sure it could truck on happily as a P2P game.

    I'm sick of games that are essentially World of Warcraft in a different skin.

    I very much agree that this genre needs more high quality games with depth and longevity, something that is sadly missing.

    Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,742
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    so I'll focus on what you left out from the title..."how to rez the genre".

    1) target audience must be identified. casual-oriented, little-bit-for-everyone is not an acceptable answer.

    2) character / player purpose must be identified. 'explore/quest/slay/pvp' only goes until you've done the quests, explored the map, done the pvp an slain the monsters. Long-term goals must exist. A meta-game.

    3) Commitment and stability. lifetime subs today, cash shops, f2p in 6 months, every new update in the shop, rebalancing the shop every patch is not 'it'.

    4) strongly incentisize community development by many activities that require REPEATED group interaction.

     

    A very good summery of what needs to be done to make a great MMO. If I could add ensuring that activities in the MMO are balanced and have meaning, whether it be PvP or crafting, housing or raids.

     

    "Just because there's bacteria on a corpse, doesn't mean the mans alive."

    This rang a chord with me too. Especially as I think the F2P MMO genre is now living of P2P MMO's, consuming them several months after they launch. We have had only one P2P/B2P release this year, at the end of this month half of 2013 will have gone.

    If P2P and B2P are dying out what will the bacteria live of then?

  • AdokasAdokas Member CommonPosts: 217
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Adokas

    People get their opinions aired, discussed and countered, no matter which way you go.

     

    False.

    Opinions are not a subject of any discussion(as pointed above), the reasoning backing them up is. Threads like this are lacking that substance.

    All right, fair enough. You have your opinion. I have no interest in discussing what a discussion is and isn't. I feel this thread is relevant, because I feel opinions can be discussed amongst a community. You don't. And that's fair enough :)

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by Shaigh

    I very much agree that I WANT more games with depth and longevity I PREFER, something that I AM sadly missing.


    Fixed for you.

  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph Member UncommonPosts: 1,361
    mmo  is most profitable  genre  in gaming ! , it is not dead !
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by Adokas

    I feel this thread is relevant, because I feel opinions can be discussed amongst a community.

    And that is the point, your feelings does not make things relevant nor true or real.

  • ArskaaaArskaaa Member RarePosts: 1,265

    Only way to res WoW is give players tools to make own realm/world. to edit every think in game, build new towns,loots etc etc...

     

    oh and mmo are not dead. Devs should give more freedom to players make own adventures. most  mmo are too linear.

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser Member Posts: 1,873

    It is that time of the week again i guess...

    *MMORPG's are dead and i am the only expert who knows how to bring it back*

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • AdokasAdokas Member CommonPosts: 217
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Adokas

    I feel this thread is relevant, because I feel opinions can be discussed amongst a community.

     

    And that is the point, your feelings does not make things relevant nor true or real.

    Yes they do, for me. They're true and real for me. Just like an opposite opinion is true and real for someone else. That's opinion. Those opinions can be discussed. It's sharing your views with each other.

    I'm not trying to push my views on anyone here. Merely sharing my views. Whether people agree or disagree - their choice.

  • SiveriaSiveria Member UncommonPosts: 1,416
    Originally posted by ColumbiaTrue

    The quest. The journey. The world. The community. The essential ingredients combined to create an enriching, complex, and satisfying---indeed memorable---MMORPG experience. Today's games fall sort of creating lasting, lifelong memories. Instead, they are designed to provide temporary, fleeting contentment. 

     

    An MMORPG should not just be about the game itself. An MMORPG is more than gaming. It is about building genuine, authentic relationships in an environment conducive to building bonds of friendship. 

     

    An MMORPG world has to feel rich, diverse, and dynamic. Most MMORPG worlds are so static and stale that I cannot bear to play them --- even for free.

     

    The journey. An individual, unique, and customized character. Different from but similar to others. A part of the world and a part of a community. However, the opportunity to define one's own destiny, choose a path (create a path).

     

     

    Main reasons the genre is dead: Boring on rails quest hub to quest hub gameplay, Mmorpg's being way to soloable they need to be forced to be made more group oriented. Game also has to offer stuff to do, most mmorpgs lately its just boringly rind to level cap then do more boring dungeons that are at their core completly worthless to do anyway since well, why spend all the time to get the gear when there is not one damn thing to actually use it for? IMO they need to stop seperating pvp and pve, and make raid gear the best gear for both. Or have pve gear get pvp stats when in pvp mode. They also could use some decent crafting. Can also use char classes where you can actually make decisions about your char, do I want this skill or that skill? Insted of just handing the player all the skills where most of them don't even get used in alot of these games. Sadly until wow dies I doubt we'll see any real innovation in the genre, for the most part devs these days just try to clone wow because they think it works.. Even though it really doesn't, if it did all these p2p wow clones wouldn't keep having to go f2p to survive, the fact they need to go f2p to survive is a pretty good indication that the wow-era is coming to an end and people are just getting bored of that style of mmo.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by AdokasThey're true and real for me.

    Self denying statements aren't true....they are called fallacious.

  • AdokasAdokas Member CommonPosts: 217
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Adokas

     

    They're true and real for me.


     

    Self denying statements aren't true....they are called fallacious.

    Okay, Mr. Robot. :-)

  • RhinotonesRhinotones Member UncommonPosts: 250

    Maybe MMORPG's are dead for those tired of them

    and not dead for those not tired of MMORPGs.

    Simple.

    In saying that, I'm of the belief that there's always room for improvement, innovation and sometimes even resurrection. Many ideas are shared within these forums and unfortunately the negativity permeating through here tends to obliterate any original ideas before they have even begun to evolve. Maybe with less antagonistic critical oppression to allow free thinkers to speak without fear of harassment we may all become a part of the process that restores gaming to where we want to see it.

    It's easy to be negative and critical. It's much harder to be creative and contributive.

    image
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