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Importance of Item Decay for Arche Age (poll inside)

ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon

Hi everyone.

I am here to talk about Item Decay, the benefits of having it, and the cost of it.

Item Decay was part of Arche Age during CBT4 and was removed in CBT5 and is not currently in game.

The answer why they removed item decay is rather easy, they thought most players would not want it, to lose there stuff, so they removed it. All good, right?

No, not really. Because item decay is a very important mechanic for a working ingame economy, and for a meaningful crafting experience. Because as a crafter you need a steady demand for items and resources you will craft or gather.(like woods from your plantation ) And you can only realize this demand of items and resources if you implement a healthy drain of items and resources. And the best and easiest way(and well proofed, like in EvE Online, SWG, and so on) to do this, is to implement item decay, so that any item, any ship, any house will decay over time. It should be repairable, but with the cost of resources(for repairing) and durability(so it will break at one point).

The problem of it, or the price tag, is that all items you may get (either from crafters or instances) will break at one point and be gone forever. On the other side everyone will have to buy from time to time a new armor, new weapons, a new ship or invest resources into their houses and castles, and with it crafters, resource gatherer and farmer will have a steady demand for items and resources and the prices will be more or less stable. (under the rule of the market)

What happens without it? Deflation of all items and resources as we can see at the live server in korea or any other game with similar mechanics. Look at GW2(as example), where all resources went down at the auction house, where crafting is rather irrelevant, because once obtained never ever needed again.

I personally think as a more sandboxy game as ArcheAge is you need a healthy and working ingame economy. It will reduce the gold inflation, it will make crafting and trading a source of income for warfare (conquest game). It will make plantation more interesting and worthwhile.. and i think it is worth that you have to buy every few weeks/month another weapon. ArcheAge is not a raid tier game, so that is not really the problem.

Another question would be how fast should be the item decay. But that is at least for me just a question of balancing to get a right balance between how much time you need to invest for a item, and how long should it hold for that invested time.

So, what do you think about it?

I really cant stress this enough.. Trion and XLGames should think about it, and consider to reimplement it again for a better gaming experience. And maybe a petition of some kind could arise out of this. And for that reason i included the poll to see what all other potential players think of it.

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Comments

  • GrailerGrailer HamiltonPosts: 876Member Uncommon

    If it doesn't have item decay I cant see how the game can work as a sandbox .

     

    DAOC was awesome because it had item decay . It made things more interesting .

     

     

     

  • stevebombsquadstevebombsquad Orlando, FLPosts: 842Member Uncommon
    Item decay is a must. SWG originally had a good system. It should be based on the use of the item. It should also allow some repairing by a crafter, but have less longevity each time it is repaired. 

    James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,171Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Item decay is a must. SWG originally had a good system. It should be based on the use of the item. It should also allow some repairing by a crafter, but have less longevity each time it is repaired. 

    THIS.

    Plus that game had various resource spawns over time, all different stats so crafters always had a need for the best resources, armor/weapon stats were never the same and it adds to the game too.

    Ppl were going oooooh and aaaaaah if you had a certain topnotch weapon from the best crafter on the server who had the best resources xxxx years ago.

    Such weapons became relics and some were actually holding on to them as the value increased and some didn't dare to use them because they would break down in the end. :)

    Then they introduced anti-item decay kits which obviously prevented any decay on the item it was attached to and later on the 'dropped items > crafted ones', which destroyed a whole economy and class for many in that game.

     

     

    Item decay really is a must in a thriving MMO, how harsh it must be on the players that are used to having items that don't break down permanently.

     

     

     

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • EricDanieEricDanie Rio de JaneiroPosts: 2,238Member

    Item decay is a must if you want your crafting to be permanently relevant for something other than producing consumables and the absolute best equipment.

    If we're talking weeks of played time instead of RL weeks, then it should be the target time.

  • IssieaIssiea SydneyPosts: 75Member

    I voted for the slow item decay as I believe it would be good to have to slowly decay over a longer period of time.  A couple of weeks feels too short for me considering you have so many pieces of armour and it may be problematic for people who are used to no item decay at all and might end up having people quit.

     

    So a compromise is best, not too long and not too short and would cover for general overall population and economy.

    image
  • TribeofOneTribeofOne Wellford, SCPosts: 1,006Member Uncommon
    slow item decay with no repairing, everything bind on equip, no BOA's w/ broken items able to be be deconstructed for base materials or be turned into a a cosmetic item
  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,171Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Issiea

    I voted for the slow item decay as I believe it would be good to have to slowly decay over a longer period of time.  A couple of weeks feels too short for me considering you have so many pieces of armour and it may be problematic for people who are used to no item decay at all and might end up having people quit.

     

    So a compromise is best, not too long and not too short and would cover for general overall population and economy.

    Back in SWG you had smugglers who could slice weapons and armor to extend their life or improve stats.

    (all at the risk of ruining the items ofc)

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • IssieaIssiea SydneyPosts: 75Member
    Originally posted by Muke
    Originally posted by Issiea

    I voted for the slow item decay as I believe it would be good to have to slowly decay over a longer period of time.  A couple of weeks feels too short for me considering you have so many pieces of armour and it may be problematic for people who are used to no item decay at all and might end up having people quit.

     

    So a compromise is best, not too long and not too short and would cover for general overall population and economy.

    Back in SWG you had smugglers who could slice weapons and armor to extend their life or improve stats.

    (all at the risk of ruining the items ofc)

    That actually sounds fun, I would love for something like this to be implemented.  A little randomness would certainly go a long way in making a game better.

     

     

    image
  • stevebombsquadstevebombsquad Orlando, FLPosts: 842Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    slow item decay with no repairing, everything bind on equip, no BOA's w/ broken items able to be be deconstructed for base materials or be turned into a a cosmetic item

    What is the point of binding an item when there is decay and the best items are made by crafters? I vote for no binding.

    James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  • TribeofOneTribeofOne Wellford, SCPosts: 1,006Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    slow item decay with no repairing, everything bind on equip, no BOA's w/ broken items able to be be deconstructed for base materials or be turned into a a cosmetic item

    What is the point of binding an item when there is decay and the best items are made by crafters? I vote for no binding.

    do you really want to  see million's of weapon/armor pieces with 1%durability left clog up any auction house or similar setup from people hoping to scam the unwary. Plus hand me downs are just as bad for the economy as no decay

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon

    I would say it depends.

    I have not played ArcheAge, so I cannot tell at this point whether item decay is needed for this game or not.

    For me, it depends on various aspects such as:

    Is there any other way of items disappearing from the game?

    E.g. items can be destroyed during upgrade process. Like in L2 where you could upgrade items to +x, the higher the X, the higher the chance for the item to get destroyed.

    How rare are full items?

    I will use L2 as an example again. The drop rates were really low and full items (=piece of gear) were rather rare or very expensive (even the low level / tier ones) in terms of mats / currency. It was very hard to obtain even medium tier gear. Not to mention high tier or top tier gear. It is slightly different story than average themepark where you kill 10 wolves and get 5 full items from them.

    How long does it take to make a piece of top tier gear?

    If it took a year to get the top weapon / piece of armor then I would definitely be against item decay.

    I am not against item decay in general, I just say its importance depends on the game design, for me.

    I think I would prefer having lower number of hardly obtainable items which can be destroyed during upgrade process in the economy than having tons of items with durability and inability to repair. It is just my subjective view though.

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    But if you hang around in MMOspace long enough, you will find that every design idea, ever, has someone who will still be a faithful adherent of it, even two decades later.

    Ya'll should dig out the Shadow World rules.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • LlexXLlexX HungaryPosts: 197Member
    Originally posted by coretex666

    I would say it depends.

    I have not played ArcheAge, so I cannot tell at this point whether item decay is needed for this game or not.

    For me, it depends on various aspects such as:

    1. Is there any other way of items disappearing from the game?

    E.g. items can be destroyed during upgrade process. Like in L2 where you could upgrade items to +x, the higher the X, the higher the chance for the item to get destroyed.

    2. How rare are full items?

    I will use L2 as an example again. The drop rates were really low and full items (=piece of gear) were rather rare or very expensive (even the low level / tier ones) in terms of mats / currency. It was very hard to obtain even medium tier gear. Not to mention high tier or top tier gear. It is slightly different story than average themepark where you kill 10 wolves and get 5 full items from them.

    3. How long does it take to make a piece of top tier gear?

    If it took a year to get the top weapon / piece of armor then I would definitely be against item decay.

    I am not against item decay in general, I just say its importance depends on the game design, for me.

    I think I would prefer having lower number of hardly obtainable items which can be destroyed during upgrade process in the economy than having tons of items with durability and inability to repair. It is just my subjective view though.

    I will try to answer some of your question, i will quote most of them from feedbacks around:

    1. Recently a new item upgrade system have been added. Similar to Ragnarok Online and others. You can upgrade your gear from lv50 onwards, but theres a chance it breaks and you lose it. (not much sources about this process, since it a new addition).

     

    2. As now the crafted gear is the best, a new raid instance have been added lately where the drops are equal to a Tier2 crafted item.

    The crafting process is the follow:

     

    After you've collected the needed materials you make the level 20 set and upgrade it gradually up to level 40 (20->24->30->34->40). From levels 20 until 40, there are 5 sets for each armor type (robe, leather, plate).

    Hardcore crafting starts with the crafting of the level 44 set,  followed by the low level 50 sets, middle level 50 sets, and high level 50 sets.

    In order to craft the lowest level 50 set you'll have to get a certain level 44 set, meaning that out of the 4 type of level 44 sets, only one can be upgraded to level 50. There are 7 type of low level 50 sets, only one of which can be upgraded to it's middle level 50 counterpart, of which there are also 7, out of which also only 1 can be upgraded to the high level 50 set.

    But the complications don't end there. It is also important that the crafter has a high enough crafting skill level so that the set items are at least blue, or preferably purple or gold, the best being the orange (item rarity), there are also 2 hidden stats on the items which can have a value randomly from +1 to +9.

     

    3. As you have seen earlier AA has a hardcore crafting system highly depending on RNG, which makes hard to obtain the "best" items. Now we are nearing to the 6th month of the Korean release and i don't believe anyone is even close of heaving the full high level 50 set in orange color (rarity), there are a very few who have it in gold colors, some more with purple colors... but still most of the players are running with level 44 gear.

  • stevebombsquadstevebombsquad Orlando, FLPosts: 842Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    slow item decay with no repairing, everything bind on equip, no BOA's w/ broken items able to be be deconstructed for base materials or be turned into a a cosmetic item

    What is the point of binding an item when there is decay and the best items are made by crafters? I vote for no binding.

    do you really want to  see million's of weapon/armor pieces with 1%durability left clog up any auction house or similar setup from people hoping to scam the unwary. Plus hand me downs are just as bad for the economy as no decay

    They was no binding in old SWG and we never had those issues. As long as the decay rate is reasonable and not too slow, it didn't cause any problems. The economy was the best of any game I have seen. 

    James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by LlexX
    Originally posted by coretex666

    I would say it depends.

    I have not played ArcheAge, so I cannot tell at this point whether item decay is needed for this game or not.

    For me, it depends on various aspects such as:

    1. Is there any other way of items disappearing from the game?

    E.g. items can be destroyed during upgrade process. Like in L2 where you could upgrade items to +x, the higher the X, the higher the chance for the item to get destroyed.

    2. How rare are full items?

    I will use L2 as an example again. The drop rates were really low and full items (=piece of gear) were rather rare or very expensive (even the low level / tier ones) in terms of mats / currency. It was very hard to obtain even medium tier gear. Not to mention high tier or top tier gear. It is slightly different story than average themepark where you kill 10 wolves and get 5 full items from them.

    3. How long does it take to make a piece of top tier gear?

    If it took a year to get the top weapon / piece of armor then I would definitely be against item decay.

    I am not against item decay in general, I just say its importance depends on the game design, for me.

    I think I would prefer having lower number of hardly obtainable items which can be destroyed during upgrade process in the economy than having tons of items with durability and inability to repair. It is just my subjective view though.

    I will try to answer some of your question, i will quote most of them from feedbacks around:

    1. Recently a new item upgrade system have been added. Similar to Ragnarok Online and others. You can upgrade your gear from lv50 onwards, but theres a chance it breaks and you lose it. (not much sources about this process, since it a new addition).

     

    2. As now the crafted gear is the best, a new raid instance have been added lately where the drops are equal to a Tier2 crafted item.

    The crafting process is the follow:

     

    After you've collected the needed materials you make the level 20 set and upgrade it gradually up to level 40 (20->24->30->34->40). From levels 20 until 40, there are 5 sets for each armor type (robe, leather, plate).

    Hardcore crafting starts with the crafting of the level 44 set,  followed by the low level 50 sets, middle level 50 sets, and high level 50 sets.

    In order to craft the lowest level 50 set you'll have to get a certain level 44 set, meaning that out of the 4 type of level 44 sets, only one can be upgraded to level 50. There are 7 type of low level 50 sets, only one of which can be upgraded to it's middle level 50 counterpart, of which there are also 7, out of which also only 1 can be upgraded to the high level 50 set.

    But the complications don't end there. It is also important that the crafter has a high enough crafting skill level so that the set items are at least blue, or preferably purple or gold, the best being the orange (item rarity), there are also 2 hidden stats on the items which can have a value randomly from +1 to +9.

     

    3. As you have seen earlier AA has a hardcore crafting system highly depending on RNG, which makes hard to obtain the "best" items. Now we are nearing to the 6th month of the Korean release and i don't believe anyone is even close of heaving the full high level 50 set in orange color (rarity), there are a very few who have it in gold colors, some more with purple colors... but still most of the players are running with level 44 gear.

    I understand that it is really hard to obtain the top tier gear.

    However, if I get it correctly, there is plenty of low / mid tier gear in the game, right? These items are not really rare or hardly obtainable, are they?

    I would not want the economy to be flooded with priceless items, but on the other hand, I would not want the hardly obtainable top tier items to be irreparable. As for the chance of the items being destroyed during the upgrade process, the impact on the economy would really depend on the probabilities and outcomes of the upgrades. Would many items be destroyed, so that it actually has any real impact on the number of items in the market? Would the potential outcome be good enough to motivate people to take the risk and upgrade the items?

    I guess I am unable to vote in the poll based on this information anyway. I will have to wait until I get to play the game for several months. Then I will probably have a clear opinion in this regard.

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • VandragoVandrago Parkersburg, WVPosts: 231Member
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    slow item decay with no repairing, everything bind on equip, no BOA's w/ broken items able to be be deconstructed for base materials or be turned into a a cosmetic item

    What is the point of binding an item when there is decay and the best items are made by crafters? I vote for no binding.

    do you really want to  see million's of weapon/armor pieces with 1%durability left clog up any auction house or similar setup from people hoping to scam the unwary. Plus hand me downs are just as bad for the economy as no decay

    This

    image

  • k11keeperk11keeper Kalama, WAPosts: 1,056Member Uncommon
    Just check out the first post here http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/376513/Archage-crafting-equipment-upgrades-translated-by-Seatbelt-.html and you'll see why item decay might not be needed to keep crafters busy. Either way I don't care as long as it's not at an annoyingly fast rate to where I need to carry 2 or 3 of everything.
  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vandrago
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    slow item decay with no repairing, everything bind on equip, no BOA's w/ broken items able to be be deconstructed for base materials or be turned into a a cosmetic item

    What is the point of binding an item when there is decay and the best items are made by crafters? I vote for no binding.

    do you really want to  see million's of weapon/armor pieces with 1%durability left clog up any auction house or similar setup from people hoping to scam the unwary. Plus hand me downs are just as bad for the economy as no decay

    This

    "Everything bind on equip" is just an artificial unrealistic regulatory instrument which has nothing to do in an MMORPG, in my opinion.

    It does not make any sense for items not be tradable once worn by someone.

     

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • AntiquatedAntiquated Oak Brook, MIPosts: 673Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vandrago
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    slow item decay with no repairing, everything bind on equip, no BOA's w/ broken items able to be be deconstructed for base materials or be turned into a a cosmetic item

    What is the point of binding an item when there is decay and the best items are made by crafters? I vote for no binding.

    do you really want to  see million's of weapon/armor pieces with 1%durability left clog up any auction house or similar setup from people hoping to scam the unwary. Plus hand me downs are just as bad for the economy as no decay

    This

    Decay always runs into the wall of practicality at some point. You cannot consider it without also considering trade.

  • LlexXLlexX HungaryPosts: 197Member
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Originally posted by Vandrago
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    slow item decay with no repairing, everything bind on equip, no BOA's w/ broken items able to be be deconstructed for base materials or be turned into a a cosmetic item

    What is the point of binding an item when there is decay and the best items are made by crafters? I vote for no binding.

    do you really want to  see million's of weapon/armor pieces with 1%durability left clog up any auction house or similar setup from people hoping to scam the unwary. Plus hand me downs are just as bad for the economy as no decay

    This

    "Everything bind on equip" is just an artificial unrealistic regulatory instrument which has nothing to do in an MMORPG, in my opinion.

    It does not make any sense for items not be tradable once worn by someone.

     

    Well some equipment are "bind to characters" after looting/getting/winning them (quest items and drops from instances), while the crafting items are all "free" to trade, and there is was a good move to make the drops from instances "bound" otherwise it would screw up the economy even more.

     

    A new item rarity improving system have been added recently and its called "Sharpening", i will try to explain it, and after reading it, decide if the game still needs an item decay or not.

    1. The item rarities in game are the following (starting from common to most rare): General, Advanced, Rare, Ancient, Heroic, Unique, Relic, Wonder, Epic, Legendary, Mythical (PS. keep in mind that the names can differ depending on the sources).

    2. Through crafting the highest rarity obtainable is Unique (orange). Drops from instances can be up to Heroic (yellow).

    3. The rarity of the crafted items can be improved (i don't think that its possible to do it with the instance drops too), only possible to improve the level 50 items, from feedbacks players are saying that it costs a lot to try to improve the items rarity and statistics says that there is a 30% chance to succeed (if the process fails the item should break). Through this improving process it should be possible to reach the Mythical rarity for the lucky ones.

    4. The stat/damage differences between the rarities are not that huge, here is a chart about the stat multipliers:

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,441Member Uncommon

    I could handle item decay if it utilized a really good system,but i doubt that would happen,so no i don't want it.

    It is not essential what so ever to a game economy,that is done by keeping RMT out and creating RARITY.

    I cannot think of any system to create a realistic item decay that wouldn't involve a very in depth system.I prefer if ideas can't be done right,i don't want them done at all.


    Samoan Diamond

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by LlexX
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Originally posted by Vandrago
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    slow item decay with no repairing, everything bind on equip, no BOA's w/ broken items able to be be deconstructed for base materials or be turned into a a cosmetic item

    What is the point of binding an item when there is decay and the best items are made by crafters? I vote for no binding.

    do you really want to  see million's of weapon/armor pieces with 1%durability left clog up any auction house or similar setup from people hoping to scam the unwary. Plus hand me downs are just as bad for the economy as no decay

    This

    "Everything bind on equip" is just an artificial unrealistic regulatory instrument which has nothing to do in an MMORPG, in my opinion.

    It does not make any sense for items not be tradable once worn by someone.

     

    Well some equipment are "bind to characters" after looting/getting/winning them (quest items and drops from instances), while the crafting items are all "free" to trade, and there is was a good move to make the drops from instances "bound" otherwise it would screw up the economy even more.

     

    A new item rarity improving system have been added recently and its called "Sharpening", i will try to explain it, and after reading it, decide if the game still needs an item decay or not.

    1. The item rarities in game are the following (starting from common to most rare): General, Advanced, Rare, Ancient, Heroic, Unique, Relic, Wonder, Epic, Legendary, Mythical (PS. keep in mind that the names can differ depending on the sources).

    2. Through crafting the highest rarity obtainable is Unique (orange). Drops from instances can be up to Heroic (yellow).

    3. The rarity of the crafted items can be improved (i don't think that its possible to do it with the instance drops too), only possible to improve the level 50 items, from feedbacks players are saying that it costs a lot to try to improve the items rarity and statistics says that there is a 30% chance to succeed (if the process fails the item should break). Through this improving process it should be possible to reach the Mythical rarity for the lucky ones.

    4. The stat/damage differences between the rarities are not that huge, here is a chart about the stat multipliers:


    I think that this "sharpening" is a good instrument for regulation of number of items in the economy. It can be quite enjoyable as well. At least I do enjoy upgrading items with a chance of their destruction :)

    With the information available, I would a priori say that item decay is not needed in this game. Will see after playing though.

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • zastenzasten nowherePosts: 283Member
    Item decay SUCKS!!!
  • infamouswhoisinfamouswhois Omega CityPosts: 185Member
    More games need item decay. Too many games get flooded with items that keep getting generated with very little options for them to be taken out of the game besides being sold. My ideal way decay should work is items degrade as you use it and everytime you repair it the max durability decreases depending on how low it was on durabilty. Games such as Diablo 3 should have mechanics like this or else everyone ends up with rare weapon drop and the value of it goes down over time since the market place gets flooded with them.
  • jigo86jigo86 adsfesPosts: 53Member Uncommon

    ragnarok online (and i guess other games made it like that too) made a good system

    u can upgrade ur eq by using rar ingredigents +4 safe +5 10% chance on break +6 30% and i guess +10 is only 10% chance of succes afaik

    liked that cuze u dont farm for that one item and ur finished ur farming simply the whole time 

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