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Goldfarming, cancer or cure?

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  • jesadjesad Member UncommonPosts: 882
    Originally posted by Evilbytrade

    "I think that WOW loves gold farmers and they don't care if they run bots or hack accounts.

    As long as people buy gold they keep the monthly SUB going. Works great for WOW. What do you think why WOW has never added a report gold farmer or gold sellers option? You can report people for language, names and cheats but not for gold selling / farming. If they truly cared about them and would consider them negative they can simply implement an option of reporting a gold spammer / farmer and if a certain amount of complaints go in the account is banned until further notice.

    Truth is WOW needs gold sellers to keep people spending money on their SUB. "

    "On the other hand maybe there should be a larger variety of servers? PVP, PVE, RP, and maybe B2P? Anyone on this server has to B2P and so has no advantage over someone who works hard for it?"

    Lots of great responses but this one hits on what I am asking more than any other right now.

    In this situation the poster is explaining how Goldfarming might in fact be "helping" the game stay alive whereas most of the time all we hear about are the detrimental effects.

    I mean just because we don't care for it doesn't really mean that it's bad does it?  (And for the record, I, like a lot of you, have made a career out of not liking it).

    Also though, about this B2P server?  Do you think that would really keep the farmers away from the other servers?  Remember, these guys exist from being parasitic in nature (that's as true as anything), so wouldn't making a place where they could actually make their money and compete (such as Sony's once tried "Exchange" service) just cause them to go after the places where they were not welcomed all the more?

    To be clear, I am not promoting gold farming.  But I am not surprised at the diverse reasons, even listed in this string, for liking it, hating it and/or being indifferent to it.

    image
  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,769
    Originally posted by jesad

    You know, a lot of things in nature tend to repeat themselves and goldfarming is a lot like that also.  Everything has a parasite that also lives off of the life that it is connected to.  Dogs have fleas, cows have flies, deer have ticks, just about everyone has maggots, and the list goes on.  It's the circle of life actually.  Not to go too deep on you guys but, we are born full of life and all clean and stuff, and as we age different things attach themselves to us until ultimately we are consumed with disease and we perish.  Such is also the life of an MMO.  But just like us, MMO's can always be created again, newer, maybe even better than before.  Sure, like us, it won't be the same MMO, but it will still be an MMO. 

    So is goldfarming really the cancer that we think it is?  Or is it the cure that allows so many player, who may not have the time, IQ, or balls to play alongside certain fanatical monstrosities who exist in almost every game?

    Share your thoughts. (I'm at work, can you tell?)

     I think the people who cry about gold farmers are crying punks.  Most people just get on with their game.

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  • jesadjesad Member UncommonPosts: 882
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by jesad

    You know, a lot of things in nature tend to repeat themselves and goldfarming is a lot like that also.  Everything has a parasite that also lives off of the life that it is connected to.  Dogs have fleas, cows have flies, deer have ticks, just about everyone has maggots, and the list goes on.  It's the circle of life actually.  Not to go too deep on you guys but, we are born full of life and all clean and stuff, and as we age different things attach themselves to us until ultimately we are consumed with disease and we perish.  Such is also the life of an MMO.  But just like us, MMO's can always be created again, newer, maybe even better than before.  Sure, like us, it won't be the same MMO, but it will still be an MMO. 

    So is goldfarming really the cancer that we think it is?  Or is it the cure that allows so many player, who may not have the time, IQ, or balls to play alongside certain fanatical monstrosities who exist in almost every game?

    Share your thoughts. (I'm at work, can you tell?)

     I think the people who cry about gold farmers are crying punks.  Most people just get on with their game.

    Since I am here I would like to first thank you for your well thought out response.

    But since you are here, let's talk about it for a minute.  Are people who cry about gold farmers really crying punks?  I mean think about it for a minute.  Gold Farming developed out of exploiting the weak.  Those players, who for whatever reason, who were too dumb to pick up the game, too busy to devote enough time, or too selfish to think that they had to know their place and play at their level among others who were not too busy, or too dumb, or too selfish.  So does being upset after you have exercised your brain, sacrificed your time, or checked your insecurities at the door so that the idea of not being the best in a world where the best usually equates to the most absorbed geekiest kind of person, doesn't scar your tender, soft insides, really qualify you as being a punk?

    And if that makes you a punk, what does it make the other guy?  Cool?

    In real life a lot of us have to do stuff in order to get ahead.  It is a universal symptom of youth you look at the old man with the cool car and the hot wife and to say, out loud, how he doesn't deserve such things.  But seriously?  Do you seriously believe that?

    You can't buy a cool car, or get a hot wife, unless you are doing SOMETHING to deserve it.  And much like in-game, those that get these things through the use of their parents credit cards, stealing them, lying to have them (stealing accounts) or endeavoring in an industry that promises such things but that is somehow illegal in nature, rarely get to hold on to them but for a second.

    How many times has anyone here had to endure some weaksauce character, bought and paid for by gold, stumbling into their raid situation with absolutely NO IDEA of what to do or where they stand in the whole situation, demanding drops, acting a fool, and in general stinking up the place?

    And how can you go on with your game when there are so many of these types standing between you and the next guy that actually gives a crap, that you can't even find each other to build a better machine?

    In this way I know for SURE that Gold Farming is a cancer.  What I am asking here though is if that cancer could actually be thought of as a cure also because of other reasons.

    So dude, I disagree with your assertion that people who cry about gold farming are punks.  But since that's not even what we are talking about here I won't go on.  What I will do though is say that reading is fundamental, and if you read something properly then you will be able to answer it properly, and not with some washed out, knee-jerk response like the one that you and several others have thrown up into the string.  Because, just like in the games, those of us who are trying to have a decent conversation about things are finding it annoying to have to wade through the din of your countless cries for negative attention in order to complete a thought.

    In other words, just because you set up an account here doesn't give you the right to speak when men and women are talking.

    image
  • Sk1ppeRSk1ppeR Member Posts: 511
    Originally posted by Sagasaint

    goldfarming work as a force of nature. it helps with natural selection. the idiots that use goldfarming services get hacked and banned, the smart ones that shy away from it get to play the game without them

    I disagree. I've never got banned or had my account stolen. I pitty the fools that use `123456` as a password. There is no hacking, none ... the game servers are secure enough. What happens is called either "reverse engineering" or brute force. Now ... why would I use my email's password as my game's password? Makes no sense right? It's really easy, hilariously easy to protect your account. Besides I don't know I guess I've used the right companies in the past because I got to negotiate how the gold would be transferred back to me. Obviously getting X sum not from a friend or a party member would raise a flag within the developers. And well investing 20$ to make all you self-righteous bastards cry is more than a sight for me xD

    P.S: I don't play games to grind. Grind is NOT fun in any real world. That is why I never bought or plan to buy gold in Gw2. The game is awesome ^_^ 

  • MiviMivi Member UncommonPosts: 83
    Originally posted by Sk1ppeR
    Originally posted by Sagasaint

    goldfarming work as a force of nature. it helps with natural selection. the idiots that use goldfarming services get hacked and banned, the smart ones that shy away from it get to play the game without them

    I disagree. I've never got banned or had my account stolen. I pitty the fools that use `123456` as a password. There is no hacking, none ... the game servers are secure enough. What happens is called either "reverse engineering" or brute force. Now ... why would I use my email's password as my game's password? Makes no sense right? It's really easy, hilariously easy to protect your account. Besides I don't know I guess I've used the right companies in the past because I got to negotiate how the gold would be transferred back to me. Obviously getting X sum not from a friend or a party member would raise a flag within the developers. And well investing 20$ to make all you self-righteous bastards cry is more than a sight for me xD

    P.S: I don't play games to grind. Grind is NOT fun in any real world. That is why I never bought or plan to buy gold in Gw2. The game is awesome ^_^ 

    if you don't want to grind don't play mmorpgs. mmorpgs are grind and need to have grind for the most part.

    you don't want to grind but at the same time you want be good and competitive, and thus cheating using goldsellers services that the only  thing they do, for real, is raise the inflaction. infact they are one of the main reason  a players have to grind more than the design to get what he want. basically everytime you use goldsellers you feed the machine who ask you to grind more, and differently from using the cash shop of the game, which yes cause inflaction too, but give money to the game company which reinvests to improve the game and services. these money istead land to a shade company most time held by fraudsters. in the end your selfishness and your low QI damage yourself, the other players, and the game you spent money for. add for last  the risk of hacking, because according of what you just said, I'm sadly to inform you that the only reason you wasn't hacked until today is not your skill in protect your account. is the luck.

  • SlampigSlampig Member UncommonPosts: 2,342
    Gold farmers suck, that is all I have to say.

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • Sk1ppeRSk1ppeR Member Posts: 511
    Originally posted by Mivi
    Originally posted by Sk1ppeR
    Originally posted by Sagasaint

    goldfarming work as a force of nature. it helps with natural selection. the idiots that use goldfarming services get hacked and banned, the smart ones that shy away from it get to play the game without them

    I disagree. I've never got banned or had my account stolen. I pitty the fools that use `123456` as a password. There is no hacking, none ... the game servers are secure enough. What happens is called either "reverse engineering" or brute force. Now ... why would I use my email's password as my game's password? Makes no sense right? It's really easy, hilariously easy to protect your account. Besides I don't know I guess I've used the right companies in the past because I got to negotiate how the gold would be transferred back to me. Obviously getting X sum not from a friend or a party member would raise a flag within the developers. And well investing 20$ to make all you self-righteous bastards cry is more than a sight for me xD

    P.S: I don't play games to grind. Grind is NOT fun in any real world. That is why I never bought or plan to buy gold in Gw2. The game is awesome ^_^ 

    if you don't want to grind don't play mmorpgs. mmorpgs are grind and need to have grind for the most part.

    you don't want to grind but at the same time you want be good and competitive, and thus cheating using goldsellers services that the only  thing they do, for real, is raise the inflaction. infact they are one of the main reason  a players have to grind more than the design to get what he want. basically everytime you use goldsellers you feed the machine who ask you to grind more, and differently from using the cash shop of the game, which yes cause inflaction too, but give money to the game company which reinvests to improve the game and services. these money istead land to a shade company most time held by fraudsters. in the end your selfishness and your low QI damage yourself, the other players, and the game you spent money for. add for last  the risk of hacking, because according of what you just said, I'm sadly to inform you that the only reason you wasn't hacked until today is not your skill in protect your account. is the luck.

    Nah I'll keep playing MMOs to make people miserable in PvP and still have fun time in PvE without grinding for top of the top gear. Guild Wars 2 got it right, I'm not doing such activities there. It's the perfect balance IMO between grind and fun. And again, grind is NOT fun. If you have been brainwashed to think this way then too bad for you ...

    And I don't consider my mobile protection on the account being anything close to being lucky. Good luck for any gold seller obtaining my phone as well xD

    P.S: If I'm given the option I usually lock my account by IP address so yeah ... I don't think I'm being lucky :) 

    P.S: I'm pretty damn good in PvP on any game, regardless how I get there ^_^ 

    P.S: Even if somebody steals my phone I can brick it from iCloud ^_^ 

    P.S: I usually use the gold for market schemes and boost that gold :U 

    P.S: I highly doubt that this adds to the inflation because they are not duping that gold. The gold is dropped either way. And sure the gold sinks are not touching it, but that gold is there either way, provided by the game whether I farm it or not. In the end its just a transfer. I don't know how that would affect the economy other than ... me being richer and some poor gold seller guy getting poorer on ingame currency

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332

    The reason is always the same,it   ruins it for everyone else in the game,so making excuses for yourself is not an  acceptable excuse.

    It is not just about the game gold either,RMT will target MANY areas of the Ah,that is not too cumbersome to target,hence why they chose botting for drops.

    I can use a simple  example Leaping Boots from FFXI.The game has the toughest economy of any game ever.Players were buying rmt gil and buying the boots as soon as they hit the AH.This drove the price up and up and people just boughgt them with more RMT gil.

    They ended up costing as high as 1.5 million gil,to a player that doesn't cheat and if no rmt money existed in game,that would be a cost that is near impossible under normal circumstances.Witrh the price that high as well as others like the Ochiuda gloves RMT began camping those items.

     

    It creates a vicious circle,they sell you the 1.5 million gil ,then you give it back to them when you buy the item,so in essence they made 3 million gil off of you.Once that cycle repeats itself enough times,the RMT no longer has to look for exploiting gimmicks like  repeatable quests or Utsusemi scrolls,they just leave about and farm the item that will recycle all that gil over and over.

    What happens is that EXCUSE of not having time has just screwed other legit players who don't have time either,but now they no way in hell could afford that item.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • MukeMuke Member RarePosts: 2,614
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64

    Buying gold is like hiring someone to have sex with your wife so you can have a kid*...

     

     

    *when you are both able to have kids

    There are rare occasions where making babies with a wife is like going to Hell and back.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • Sk1ppeRSk1ppeR Member Posts: 511
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    The reason is always the same,it   ruins it for everyone else in the game,so making excuses for yourself is not an  acceptable excuse.

    It is not just about the game gold either,RMT will target MANY areas of the Ah,that is not too cumbersome to target,hence why they chose botting for drops.

    I can use a simple  example Leaping Boots from FFXI.The game has the toughest economy of any game ever.Players were buying rmt gil and buying the boots as soon as they hit the AH.This drove the price up and up and people just boughgt them with more RMT gil.

    They ended up costing as high as 1.5 million gil,to a player that doesn't cheat and if no rmt money existed in game,that would be a cost that is near impossible under normal circumstances.Witrh the price that high as well as others like the Ochiuda gloves RMT began camping those items.

     

    It creates a vicious circle,they sell you the 1.5 million gil ,then you give it back to them when you buy the item,so in essence they made 3 million gil off of you.Once that cycle repeats itself enough times,the RMT no longer has to look for exploiting gimmicks like  repeatable quests or Utsusemi scrolls,they just leave about and farm the item that will recycle all that gil over and over.

    What happens is that EXCUSE of not having time has just screwed other legit players who don't have time either,but now they no way in hell could afford that item.

    Well precursors in Gw2 cost arm and leg but there is a reason for it and they are not that needed since your regular exotic is just as strong. THAT my friend is a good game design. Grind your face off if you want, and look awesome afterwards, but don't come to me with few tiers better gear and killing me off and acting all Godsend and shit. It's like the only thing that drives me to the point to RMT. Just to rub it in your faces.

    The level grind in every MMO is enough!

    P.S: And please don't blame the fall of a lousy game on the bots and gold sellers. WoW has TONS of those, yet it still prevails over any other themepark MMO ... saddly. Yet the fact remains, WoW is here to stay regardless of bots and gold sellers. 

    P.S: I have legendary weapon in Gw2 without RMT :) not even gems 

  • kizan0601kizan0601 Member UncommonPosts: 61
    Originally posted by jesad

     

    So is goldfarming really the cancer that we think it is?  Or is it the cure that allows so many player, who may not have the time, IQ, or balls to play alongside certain fanatical monstrosities who exist in almost every game?

    Share your thoughts. (I'm at work, can you tell?)

    It's neither, gold farmers  has never and will never affect my experience when playing a MMO they do not bother me in any way. 

  • MiviMivi Member UncommonPosts: 83
    Nah I'll keep playing MMOs to make people miserable in PvP and still have fun time in PvE without grinding for top of the top gear. Guild Wars 2 got it right, I'm not doing such activities there. It's the perfect balance IMO between grind and fun. And again, grind is NOT fun. If you have been brainwashed to think this way then too bad for you ...

    And I don't consider my mobile protection on the account being anything close to being lucky. Good luck for any gold seller obtaining my phone as well xD

    P.S: If I'm given the option I usually lock my account by IP address so yeah ... I don't think I'm being lucky :) 

    P.S: I'm pretty damn good in PvP on any game, regardless how I get there ^_^ 

    P.S: Even if somebody steals my phone I can brick it from iCloud ^_^ 

    P.S: I usually use the gold for market schemes and boost that gold :U 

    P.S: I highly doubt that this adds to the inflation because they are not duping that gold. The gold is dropped either way. And sure the gold sinks are not touching it, but that gold is there either way, provided by the game whether I farm it or not. In the end its just a transfer. I don't know how that would affect the economy other than ... me being richer and some poor gold seller guy getting poorer on ingame currency

    hey! I'm an athlete and I'm use doping because training is not fun, but I'm really good at running. don't worry guys using doping is fine because I'm smart I will not get caught. and I like make other honest athlete fell miserable they are stupids

    Hey! work in real life ain't fun (unless you lucky) so I will cheat and fraud others. ok?! c'mon is fine using cheats. life is not made to work and I'm smart and I will not get caught! i like make honest workers fell miserable they are stupids

    next time a politician in your country is found corrupt and to live on the shoulders of taxpayers. don't blame him, taxpayers is only a bunch of people brainwashend thinking that work for what you want and need, is right! they are stupids

    right?

    Right?!

    I won't never stop to get amazed to see how weights of the society take so much care to their ego... make other feel miserable... a wise person one time said that when you express your wish you also reveal your weakeness. in order to know and enjoy from people feel miseable you have to taste it, and is not a good reason to pass to the goldseller side, you ain't improving yourself as player, and probably another good-at-nothing-who-thing-he-is-great who beated you use <span alt-edited"="">illegitimately methods or just luck.

    about luck, yes you're lucky, lucky to have found a goldseller service who has grow robbing enough accounts that now can offer more safely payment methods. how you discover which payment metods the offered? visiting their site? that not smart! oh! you used your phone. you got it legittimally or is fruits of cheating and frauds? or your parents "grind" it for you?

     

  • RedrumickeyRedrumickey Member Posts: 13

    There was once a time years and years ago when playing a game meant to be played fair and without cheating .Now days cheating is just away of life in games and outside of games .  Today their more forums on cheat them place like this and even here has a large groups gamers who will defend it and go out of their way to bring the smack down on any who complains about it . 

      Todays games all about $$$ cheating is all about $$$ Being at top of your game is all about $$$ .So you do what you do to try and get there .Myself I miss the old day and its a shame that young gamers will never know what it feels to be able to play fair make friends and enjoy a game that is fun and  that simple makes you feel good to be apart of it.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by jesad

    Gold Farming developed out of exploiting the weak.  Those players, who for whatever reason, who were too dumb to pick up the game, too busy to devote enough time, or too selfish to think that they had to know their place and play at their level among others who were not too busy, or too dumb, or too selfish. 

    where the best usually equates to the most absorbed geekiest kind of person

    You can't buy a cool car, or get a hot wife, unless you are doing SOMETHING to deserve it.  And much like in-game, those that get these things through the use of their parents credit cards, stealing them, lying to have them (stealing accounts) or endeavoring in an industry that promises such things but that is somehow illegal in nature, rarely get to hold on to them but for a second.

    How many times has anyone here had to endure some weaksauce character, bought and paid for by gold, stumbling into their raid situation with absolutely NO IDEA of what to do or where they stand in the whole situation, demanding drops, acting a fool, and in general stinking up the place?

    Because, just like in the games, those of us who are trying to have a decent conversation about things are finding it annoying to have to wade through the din of your countless cries for negative attention in order to complete a thought.

    In other words, just because you set up an account here doesn't give you the right to speak when men and women are talking.

    Just wanted to highlight all the key phrases there.

    Now, what was that about a decent conversation, again?

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916

    Cash Shops and "gold sales" by the developers of a game will never stop third-party RMT.

     

    That's because the "gold-farmers" can always undercut the official sales. They get their "gold" cheap or free, so they can usually make a profit regardless. Rumor has it that the recent currency duping bugs in Neverwinter resulted in some substantial profits for players selling their duped Astral Diamonds to gold sellers.

  • DrakynnDrakynn Member Posts: 2,030

    I have no problem with the concept of gold farming because it's supplying a clear market demand,where I do have a problem with it is the methods that it engenders like Account Stealing,Botting and antisocial behaviors to keep actual players out of prime  gold/item drop locations.

    The only way to truly combat gold farming is to destroy the demand it fulfills but that is hard to do because even if you get rid of boring time sinks and give incentives to actually play your way through the game instead of buy your way through it(Which is what f2P wants you to do),the are plenty of lazy and impatient people around to create a demand anyway.

    Games selling items/money through a cash shop does limit the gold farmers market by taking it for the game company itself but really that just drives the gold farming companies to abandon actual gold farming to more illegal and intrusive practices like account stealing and looting to remain profitable.

  • jesadjesad Member UncommonPosts: 882
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by jesad

    Gold Farming developed out of exploiting the weak.  Those players, who for whatever reason, who were too dumb to pick up the game, too busy to devote enough time, or too selfish to think that they had to know their place and play at their level among others who were not too busy, or too dumb, or too selfish. 

    where the best usually equates to the most absorbed geekiest kind of person

    You can't buy a cool car, or get a hot wife, unless you are doing SOMETHING to deserve it.  And much like in-game, those that get these things through the use of their parents credit cards, stealing them, lying to have them (stealing accounts) or endeavoring in an industry that promises such things but that is somehow illegal in nature, rarely get to hold on to them but for a second.

    How many times has anyone here had to endure some weaksauce character, bought and paid for by gold, stumbling into their raid situation with absolutely NO IDEA of what to do or where they stand in the whole situation, demanding drops, acting a fool, and in general stinking up the place?

    Because, just like in the games, those of us who are trying to have a decent conversation about things are finding it annoying to have to wade through the din of your countless cries for negative attention in order to complete a thought.

    In other words, just because you set up an account here doesn't give you the right to speak when men and women are talking.

    Just wanted to highlight all the key phrases there.

    Now, what was that about a decent conversation, again?


    Not sure what you are attempting to point out here.  I thanked the user for his addition to the conversation and then continued on to explain to him/her why I considered such a comment lacking in depth and forethought providing examples and analogies in order to clarify my point and distaste in the most meaningful way possible.  I then closed the argument soundly by reminding said user that they should consider carefully what they say in the future because, like them, we all have a sharp side to us, but unlike them, we all just don't go swinging it about wildly and randomly and then I proceeded to allow the rest of the folks here, who have been pretty good about staying on topic, to continue.

    Look, dialog is good, it is productive, but the common truth of the matter is that not everyone needs to be heard. 

    A lot of people have said a lot of productive things in this string on both sides of the conversation, but just coming in here and calling people "punks" or taking some high attitude for or against without elaborating on the topic is simply an unacceptable waste of both your time and my own and thus subject to the utmost shunning and/or chastising possible.

    You may not agree, but you do not control my fingers, nor I theirs.  Nor yours for that matter.  But this being a clear attempt to derail the entire thing into a discussion of my behavior can end now because I APOLOGIZE.

    There, that feel better?  Good because I will not address the topic further.  ON WITH THE DISCUSSION!!

    image
  • jesadjesad Member UncommonPosts: 882

    So here's the scorecard as I see it.  Correct me where you want.

    Pro's

    1. Keeps some players from having to grind in order to compete.

    2. Keeps some titles alive by allowing some players to catch up with other players quickly. (supported heavily by the pvp demographic).

    2a. This ability to step into the game at any point causing players to continue to subscribe (in the case of WoW).

    3. Makes the guy who just plays games to punish grinders for being on their high horses happy.

     

    Con's

    1. Detracts from the overall game experience for some players.

    2. Causes some players to quit playing the title. (These often, in my opinion only, being the ones more capable of going after the more top letter gear and equipment).

    2a. Causes a stagnation in upward progress as the people capable of making such progress are no longer able to find equally capable counterparts to assist them. 

    2b. This in turn turns the endgame into a gold-farmer provided exercise as only the gold farmers are powerful enough to provide to their clients the gear and items the client needs in order to be competitive with others, who are also purchasing their gear and equipment from the gold-farmers.  Cause I NEVER heard of anyone getting rich off of selling their items TO gold-farmers.

    So we are one click from where we started.  Which is the better thing, and for whom?  It seems clear that gold-farming is a positive for the companies that make the game, but a negative to their biggest fans.

    What's the deal there?

    image
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