Yeah, I'm quite sure the Wildstar dev team was just sitting around, brainstorming, and decided to "rip off" World of Warcraft's art design. In fact, let's just go ahead and say that every game that has utilized a highly stylized art design ripped it off. Clearly, OP, your powers of observation are simply staggering.
Gameplay will always trump graphics for ANY player. If you asked someone if they could have graphics with models that had 20 times the greatest engine could produce right now, but all you could do in the game is run around in a small circle, no combat or anything, or if you could have EQ graphics with a wide open world with a million things to do...100% of non-smartasses would pick the second lol.
That's why games like minecraft, LoL, WoW are so popular, gameplay.
So you are comparing something that is not really a game (a modeler where you can rotate your character) to an actual game and saying it proves graphics mean nothing to players? That means nothing.
Everquest didn't have bad graphics for its time. I care about graphics, a lot of "real gamers" care about graphics, and you don't have to have a super computer to run an MMO with good graphics.
All that said I think for an MMO designed to be F2P it looks fine. If people still pay for cosmetics in a game like WoW I'm sure they will in Wildstar as well. I don't see how it will really hurt them financially, and if you aren't paying then you shouldn't expect some fancy graphics engine.
For me the gameplay is not revolutionary enough to make me ignore my personal distaste in the graphics/atmosphere their choice of animations/art style. I like the general setting of the game, but would prefer it were a different style. They also have some neat ideas, but once I grow tired of building a fort in match PvP (13 assassins style, which admitted does sound awesome), I'm still in a world I do not enjoy. Other MMO's offer gameplay I like, and more fit my style.
It matters it just is a matter of personal opinion whether someone can either get past it or not, and some prefer their "toons" to look like actual "toons" and not some artsy, highly detailed, realistic character.
Personally I think the game could capture that early wow feel, which is a good thing and the gfx are I keeping - it was the obvious path. However the problem is that we have all moved on, and worse if all goes to plan , the game will fill with jaded wow players who will power to end game - its going to turn into an unofficial wow expansion .
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Think of it like this. What other game out there will play really good on almost any computer, no matter how outdated someone's computer is. That's one of, not the only one though, reasons why the game still holds millions of subscribers. I haven't played in years, but it was a well rounded, fun game with plenty to do, no matter the graphics, (which I didn't mind).
Gameplay will always trump graphics for ANY player. If you asked someone if they could have graphics with models that had 20 times the greatest engine could produce right now, but all you could do in the game is run around in a small circle, no combat or anything, or if you could have EQ graphics with a wide open world with a million things to do...100% of non-smartasses would pick the second lol.
That's why games like minecraft, LoL, WoW are so popular, gameplay.
So you are comparing something that is not really a game (a modeler where you can rotate your character) to an actual game and saying it proves graphics mean nothing to players? That means nothing.
Everquest didn't have bad graphics for its time. I care about graphics, a lot of "real gamers" care about graphics, and you don't have to have a super computer to run an MMO with good graphics.
All that said I think for an MMO designed to be F2P it looks fine. If people still pay for cosmetics in a game like WoW I'm sure they will in Wildstar as well. I don't see how it will really hurt them financially, and if you aren't paying then you shouldn't expect some fancy graphics engine.
For me the gameplay is not revolutionary enough to make me ignore my personal distaste in the graphics/atmosphere their choice of animations/art style. I like the general setting of the game, but would prefer it were a different style. They also have some neat ideas, but once I grow tired of building a fort in match PvP (13 assassins style, which admitted does sound awesome), I'm still in a world I do not enjoy. Other MMO's offer gameplay I like, and more fit my style.
It matters it just is a matter of personal opinion whether someone can either get past it or not, and some prefer their "toons" to look like actual "toons" and not some artsy, highly detailed, realistic character.
it means that players don't want to play a model viewer...they want to play a game, they'll always pick a game over a model viewer
I like WoW's art style, the graphical quality has aged quite a bit at this point. It's still clean, but so many improvements are out there these days.
And while I appreciate Metzen's artwork and style I have to give the nod to Warhammer (the tabletop game not WAR) as it really was the basis for what we see in Warcraft and Starcraft.
I will always be curious how things would have turned out if Games Workshop had not pulled out from Orcs v Humans and WoW was actually World of Warhammer. Would blizzard have done it properly and given us many factions? Who knows, but I'm almost certain that Warhammer would be a much better video game franchise under Blizzard than everyone else who has taken a crack at it.
The detail of the models are far beyond even the latest WoW expansion.
Take a moment, look at Mist of Pandara video, then look at Wildstar.
You will see that Wildstar's animations and models are much more detailed.
Yes they share the same "style" but are they dated? No, look at the movement of fingers, and facial expressions - the illusion of weight, bob of hair as the character walks, runs and jumps.
Honestly if you can't get past graphics then you'll miss out and have missed out on a lot of fun games.
Imagine if no one ever tried Minecraft because the graphics looked like Wolfenstien 3D.
All I am saying is, no the graphic engine is not date - it is a style of art.
Similar to how some people enjoy drawing realistic while other prefer anime, abstract to stylized ect ect ect.
I think they have copied more than just the art style from WoW. I was watching a video of wildstar the other day which showed gameplay. The character being played was a robot race and its combat style and animations while using a two-handed sword looked identical to a male night elf from WoW right down to the way it rocks on its heels while holding the sword. It looked like I was watching a reskinned WoW where a nightelf was killing lions in the barrens.
All the recorded gameplay I've seen so far make the game look very dated and it's not just the graphics and art style. Combat looks boring, quests appear to be simple kill or fetch quests. There was no voice over for these in the video but apparently that will be in the final game but no amount of voice over can change the nature of the questing. Character customisation (at least the customisation shown so far) looks very basic with just a few hair and head choices, no options to change weight/height etc.
Now Wildstar may be a good game, but you can't deny after looking at gameplay videos available at the moment that it looks like a reskinned WoW.
It has the same art style as WoW, which I actually like. It does not have to look super realistic, we are after all imaginary characters running around in a MMORPG ;-)
Originally posted by Ladrann27 It has the same art style as WoW, which I actually like. It does not have to look super realistic, we are after all imaginary characters running around in a MMORPG ;-)
Fixed it for you. You truly do not want people to troll you to death with the difference between a MMORPG and a virtual world game.
Originally posted by Ladrann27 It has the same art style as WoW, which I actually like. It does not have to look super realistic, we are after all imaginary characters running around in a MMORPG ;-)
Fixed it for you. You truly do not want people to troll you to death with the difference between a MMORPG and a virtual world game.
Originally posted by Ladrann27 It has the same art style as WoW, which I actually like. It does not have to look super realistic, we are after all imaginary characters running around in a MMORPG ;-)
Fixed it for you. You truly do not want people to troll you to death with the difference between a MMORPG and a virtual world game.
Thanks for the save, I did not think that through, but you get what I mean ;-)
Originally posted by Ladrann27 It has the same art style as WoW, which I actually like. It does not have to look super realistic, we are after all imaginary characters running around in a MMORPG ;-)
Fixed it for you. You truly do not want people to troll you to death with the difference between a MMORPG and a virtual world game.
Thanks for the save, I did not think that through, but you get what I mean ;-)
I know but less ammunition for the trolls is better still :P
Am I the only one who realizes that WoW has one of the worst graphics engine and art design of any half popular mmo out? We give WoW a break because, hell their engine is going on 10 years old, but then I look at a game like FFXI that is even older and was created for PS2! Look at water in one and then the water in the other and you tell me what you see. And then there's Wildstar..... Same crappy graphics and art design. Makes sense they both originated from the great house of Blizzard. If I wanted to play a saturday morning cartoon I would play Ragnarok 2, who's art design is truly art. I think games like Wildstar give us such crappy art because they know it doesnt tax their engine like the graphics of Archage or FFXIV. And my lord have you seen Black Desert?! Square Enix knew that their 5 star graphics of FFXIV were too hard on their engine, especially with hundreds of potential player in one area. So they toned them down, got a new engine and guess what? They still are one of the very best looking games out there. I have actual game play footage as my screen saver cause they look so damn clean. And their art design is second to none.
If you dont spend major time and money on your art and graphics then it leaves more time and resources for other things. But It doesnt matter if you are soloing, team play, questing, pvping, raiding, crafting or farming. Youre always looking at the graphics and art design. It seems only asian developers realize this.
If I'm going to spend the next 5 years looking at a game shouldnt I enjoy what I'm looking at every moment and have wonder? I mean after every expansion of WoW and monthly fees Ive given them north of 600 bucks. For crappy graphics.
No thanks Wildstar.
As mentioned in another thread that has issues with this game: Graphics are NOT Aesthetics. What you basically have is an issue with the Aesthetic (i.e. artistic) design of the game. The graphical power of this game is far above that of WoW. [And I'm confused by your statement in the RED: Blizzard never touched this game. It's entirely the baby of Carbine with funding and over-the-shoulder support from NCSoft. It may have some ex-Blizzard developers, but that doesn't mean it's influenced by that company directly at all.]
In the video I linked in this post, there are consistent signs of advanced shadows, dynamic lighting, hundreds of particle effects, great shading, nice crisp textures, and so on. So, the "graphics" are very solid in the game and have a nice amount of special effects in them too (the grass moving in the wind, the double-jump tuck animations, the dust from Settler construction sites).
As for the AESTHETICS, which seem to be the whole point of this entire thread, I really enjoy it's look. The game falls into category with Firefall and WoW with the cartoony stylization. That cartoony stylization plays well into the game's humorous content and back story (lore) that the developers have made. This game -though "serious" as far as it's raid content is- takes itself very lightheartedly when it comes to trying to be serious; and the art style complements that quite well.
P.S. I must link this video of Graphics vs Aesthetics for clarification for those unaware of the difference.
Am I the only one who realizes that WoW has one of the worst graphics engine and art design of any half popular mmo out? We give WoW a break because, hell their engine is going on 10 years old, but then I look at a game like FFXI that is even older and was created for PS2! Look at water in one and then the water in the other and you tell me what you see. And then there's Wildstar..... Same crappy graphics and art design. Makes sense they both originated from the great house of Blizzard. If I wanted to play a saturday morning cartoon I would play Ragnarok 2, who's art design is truly art. I think games like Wildstar give us such crappy art because they know it doesnt tax their engine like the graphics of Archage or FFXIV. And my lord have you seen Black Desert?! Square Enix knew that their 5 star graphics of FFXIV were too hard on their engine, especially with hundreds of potential player in one area. So they toned them down, got a new engine and guess what? They still are one of the very best looking games out there. I have actual game play footage as my screen saver cause they look so damn clean. And their art design is second to none.
If you dont spend major time and money on your art and graphics then it leaves more time and resources for other things. But It doesnt matter if you are soloing, team play, questing, pvping, raiding, crafting or farming. Youre always looking at the graphics and art design. It seems only asian developers realize this.
If I'm going to spend the next 5 years looking at a game shouldnt I enjoy what I'm looking at every moment and have wonder? I mean after every expansion of WoW and monthly fees Ive given them north of 600 bucks. For crappy graphics.
No thanks Wildstar.
oh man it looks like wow omg! meltdown over that? cmon you now you will try it
While I'm not a fan of cartoony graphics, I'm more concerned about content as it seems like an more mature version of some kid/teen rated game like Skylanders. Sure they weren't going for realistic, but the "Americanized" art style has always been a turn off and I tend to take games less seriously when that approach is incorporated. It's almost as bad as letting a US animator do Clone Wars in that horrid Johnny Bravo/Samurai Jack artstyle. The only character designs that I've ever found appealing was the artwork from Tera, Aion and other Asian MMO's. Rift, Warhammer, The Secret World, SWTOR just have horrid, blocky and very cheesy character designs. To each their own I guess. This is one game I won't be playing. And I personally don't think it deserves to even be near the top of this sites list let alone have the #1 spot. Or maybe we should just get rid of the top category for games in development because people on here over-hype games that they know nothing about and it's always some game that the average MMO'er wouldn't even give a quick look.
Otherwise it is a game and should be one. Some ppl expect super real visuals and again if that is what you want go to the link above. You can go kill ppl in real life. IF you want a game then dont attach so many expectations on graphics.. If your having fun, it is a game worth playing. Otherwise just mellow.
It must really be down to personal opinion, because I think WoW looks better than most MMOs today. It's an arty style which lends itself to smooth animations and I don't mind looking at for long amounts of time.
It's also all about SCALE. Some MMOs may have great, detailed, realistic graphics - but that seems to make their worlds have to be really small and claustrophobic and distorted.
Am I the only one who realizes that WoW has one of the worst graphics engine and art design of any half popular mmo out? We give WoW a break because, hell their engine is going on 10 years old, but then I look at a game like FFXI that is even older and was created for PS2! Look at water in one and then the water in the other and you tell me what you see. And then there's Wildstar..... Same crappy graphics and art design. Makes sense they both originated from the great house of Blizzard. If I wanted to play a saturday morning cartoon I would play Ragnarok 2, who's art design is truly art. I think games like Wildstar give us such crappy art because they know it doesnt tax their engine like the graphics of Archage or FFXIV. And my lord have you seen Black Desert?! Square Enix knew that their 5 star graphics of FFXIV were too hard on their engine, especially with hundreds of potential player in one area. So they toned them down, got a new engine and guess what? They still are one of the very best looking games out there. I have actual game play footage as my screen saver cause they look so damn clean. And their art design is second to none.
If you dont spend major time and money on your art and graphics then it leaves more time and resources for other things. But It doesnt matter if you are soloing, team play, questing, pvping, raiding, crafting or farming. Youre always looking at the graphics and art design. It seems only asian developers realize this.
If I'm going to spend the next 5 years looking at a game shouldnt I enjoy what I'm looking at every moment and have wonder? I mean after every expansion of WoW and monthly fees Ive given them north of 600 bucks. For crappy graphics.
No thanks Wildstar.
Are you joking? Have you watched any of the WS demos? The amount of detail and quality in the games graphics are 10 fold what WoW brings to the table. You need to get your eyes checked.
Well I figured the diehard fans of Wildstar wouldn't appreciate my opinions. Of course there had been some names and labels thrown my way. Some of you however have made some valid points. Some of you obviously didnt read through my original post because you are talking of things I never wrote.
I've seen every video and read most article for Wildstar, and youre right. The game just isn't for me. Im not into "paths" I dont want to jump around and explore like a platform game. I was never a Sonic or Spiral the dragon fan. I dont want to build stuff for others unless its making me rich.
I like discovering ways to make gold that others haven't come across yet and cornering the market. I like bragging that I soloed content that takes a party for most. I enjoy getting the most difficult gear in game, that only 5% of population owns.
Because it doenst matter what mmo you're playing, at some point you are going to have down time for whatever reason. And what do most of us do at this point? Stand around town and show off our gear and achievments. And after I have accomplished these things I dont want my character to look cartoony. I dont want the house I put so much time into to be leaning to one side and looking dilapidated. If im going to build a huge turret to kill fellow PvPers, I want it to be scary looking. Not like a nerf gun. I am not impressed with graphics or the art.
This is my opinion. Some of you feel differently. But this is what these forums are for. This is why we hype games. This is why we play mmos.
Comments
So you are comparing something that is not really a game (a modeler where you can rotate your character) to an actual game and saying it proves graphics mean nothing to players? That means nothing.
Everquest didn't have bad graphics for its time. I care about graphics, a lot of "real gamers" care about graphics, and you don't have to have a super computer to run an MMO with good graphics.
All that said I think for an MMO designed to be F2P it looks fine. If people still pay for cosmetics in a game like WoW I'm sure they will in Wildstar as well. I don't see how it will really hurt them financially, and if you aren't paying then you shouldn't expect some fancy graphics engine.
For me the gameplay is not revolutionary enough to make me ignore my personal distaste in the graphics/atmosphere their choice of animations/art style. I like the general setting of the game, but would prefer it were a different style. They also have some neat ideas, but once I grow tired of building a fort in match PvP (13 assassins style, which admitted does sound awesome), I'm still in a world I do not enjoy. Other MMO's offer gameplay I like, and more fit my style.
It matters it just is a matter of personal opinion whether someone can either get past it or not, and some prefer their "toons" to look like actual "toons" and not some artsy, highly detailed, realistic character.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
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rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
it means that players don't want to play a model viewer...they want to play a game, they'll always pick a game over a model viewer
I like WoW's art style, the graphical quality has aged quite a bit at this point. It's still clean, but so many improvements are out there these days.
And while I appreciate Metzen's artwork and style I have to give the nod to Warhammer (the tabletop game not WAR) as it really was the basis for what we see in Warcraft and Starcraft.
I will always be curious how things would have turned out if Games Workshop had not pulled out from Orcs v Humans and WoW was actually World of Warhammer. Would blizzard have done it properly and given us many factions? Who knows, but I'm almost certain that Warhammer would be a much better video game franchise under Blizzard than everyone else who has taken a crack at it.
Not crazy about the art style at all. Still, its a game Im after. Not graphics.
My 2 cents.
Take a moment, look at Mist of Pandara video, then look at Wildstar.
You will see that Wildstar's animations and models are much more detailed.
Yes they share the same "style" but are they dated? No, look at the movement of fingers, and facial expressions - the illusion of weight, bob of hair as the character walks, runs and jumps.
Honestly if you can't get past graphics then you'll miss out and have missed out on a lot of fun games.
Imagine if no one ever tried Minecraft because the graphics looked like Wolfenstien 3D.
All I am saying is, no the graphic engine is not date - it is a style of art.
Similar to how some people enjoy drawing realistic while other prefer anime, abstract to stylized ect ect ect.
AAAND I am rambling.
I think they have copied more than just the art style from WoW. I was watching a video of wildstar the other day which showed gameplay. The character being played was a robot race and its combat style and animations while using a two-handed sword looked identical to a male night elf from WoW right down to the way it rocks on its heels while holding the sword. It looked like I was watching a reskinned WoW where a nightelf was killing lions in the barrens.
All the recorded gameplay I've seen so far make the game look very dated and it's not just the graphics and art style. Combat looks boring, quests appear to be simple kill or fetch quests. There was no voice over for these in the video but apparently that will be in the final game but no amount of voice over can change the nature of the questing. Character customisation (at least the customisation shown so far) looks very basic with just a few hair and head choices, no options to change weight/height etc.
Now Wildstar may be a good game, but you can't deny after looking at gameplay videos available at the moment that it looks like a reskinned WoW.
The Enlightened take things Lightly
It has the same art style as WoW, which I actually like. It does not have to look super realistic, we are after all imaginary characters running around in a MMORPG ;-)
*Edit - applied fix
Fixed it for you. You truly do not want people to troll you to death with the difference between a MMORPG and a virtual world game.
You stay sassy!
Absolutely agree with Dihoru. +1
Thanks for the save, I did not think that through, but you get what I mean ;-)
I know but less ammunition for the trolls is better still :P
As mentioned in another thread that has issues with this game: Graphics are NOT Aesthetics. What you basically have is an issue with the Aesthetic (i.e. artistic) design of the game. The graphical power of this game is far above that of WoW. [And I'm confused by your statement in the RED: Blizzard never touched this game. It's entirely the baby of Carbine with funding and over-the-shoulder support from NCSoft. It may have some ex-Blizzard developers, but that doesn't mean it's influenced by that company directly at all.]
In the video I linked in this post, there are consistent signs of advanced shadows, dynamic lighting, hundreds of particle effects, great shading, nice crisp textures, and so on. So, the "graphics" are very solid in the game and have a nice amount of special effects in them too (the grass moving in the wind, the double-jump tuck animations, the dust from Settler construction sites).
As for the AESTHETICS, which seem to be the whole point of this entire thread, I really enjoy it's look. The game falls into category with Firefall and WoW with the cartoony stylization. That cartoony stylization plays well into the game's humorous content and back story (lore) that the developers have made. This game -though "serious" as far as it's raid content is- takes itself very lightheartedly when it comes to trying to be serious; and the art style complements that quite well.
P.S. I must link this video of Graphics vs Aesthetics for clarification for those unaware of the difference.
oh man it looks like wow omg! meltdown over that? cmon you now you will try it
calm down
Getting too old for this $&17!
You want reality? Join the marines.http://www.marines.com/home
Otherwise it is a game and should be one. Some ppl expect super real visuals and again if that is what you want go to the link above. You can go kill ppl in real life. IF you want a game then dont attach so many expectations on graphics.. If your having fun, it is a game worth playing. Otherwise just mellow.
It must really be down to personal opinion, because I think WoW looks better than most MMOs today. It's an arty style which lends itself to smooth animations and I don't mind looking at for long amounts of time.
It's also all about SCALE. Some MMOs may have great, detailed, realistic graphics - but that seems to make their worlds have to be really small and claustrophobic and distorted.
WildStar looks fantastic to me.
Are you joking? Have you watched any of the WS demos? The amount of detail and quality in the games graphics are 10 fold what WoW brings to the table. You need to get your eyes checked.
Well I figured the diehard fans of Wildstar wouldn't appreciate my opinions. Of course there had been some names and labels thrown my way. Some of you however have made some valid points. Some of you obviously didnt read through my original post because you are talking of things I never wrote.
I've seen every video and read most article for Wildstar, and youre right. The game just isn't for me. Im not into "paths" I dont want to jump around and explore like a platform game. I was never a Sonic or Spiral the dragon fan. I dont want to build stuff for others unless its making me rich.
I like discovering ways to make gold that others haven't come across yet and cornering the market. I like bragging that I soloed content that takes a party for most. I enjoy getting the most difficult gear in game, that only 5% of population owns.
Because it doenst matter what mmo you're playing, at some point you are going to have down time for whatever reason. And what do most of us do at this point? Stand around town and show off our gear and achievments. And after I have accomplished these things I dont want my character to look cartoony. I dont want the house I put so much time into to be leaning to one side and looking dilapidated. If im going to build a huge turret to kill fellow PvPers, I want it to be scary looking. Not like a nerf gun. I am not impressed with graphics or the art.
This is my opinion. Some of you feel differently. But this is what these forums are for. This is why we hype games. This is why we play mmos.