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[Column] Elder Scrolls Online: On Cyrodiil as World PvP

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,596MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

The Elder Scrolls Online team has made some interesting decisions when it comes to the game's PvP content. In our latest ESO column, we take a look at the pros and cons of those decisions. See if you agree (or disagree) with our thinking before joining the discussion in the comments.

As I said above, I’m pretty excited that a lot of the folks who once worked on Dark Age of Camelot’s RvR are heading up the team working on Elder Scrolls Online AvA. Brian Wheeler was one of the ingredients that made the magic happen in DAOC.  He was also part of the WAR team, but we can’t put that game’s failings on one man’s shoulders, so we’ll just sidestep it and chalk it up as a learning process.  At least we know ESO will have three factions as opposed to the inherently broken two.

Read more of Bill Murphy's Elder Scrolls Online: On Cyrodiil as World PvP.

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Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

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Comments

  • ZedTheRockZedTheRock Florence, KYPosts: 172Member

    3 factions will always be the better choice and contrary to anyone' opinion, just because PvP is segregated off into its own zone doesn't make i any less world PvP.

     

    Wish people would understand there is Instanced PvP, which what most people think of is when they say "GW2, DAoC or TESO doesn't have world PvP". Then there is Zoned PvP then there is open world PvP.

    SUP

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,447Member Uncommon
    Awesome, thanks for the info =-)


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • OrrionkaOrrionka South Charleston, WVPosts: 19Member

    I'm just grateful for the 3 faction AvA.

    Everything else is secondary to me. Now, if the fighting measures up to DAoC I'll be one happy camper!

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon
    *shakes fist at happy camper* I got sniped so many times in DAoC :)

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 salem, ORPosts: 527Member
    What makes 3 factions any less broken than 2?

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • IV_TalekIV_Talek WarsawPosts: 7Member
    So no other pvp options instead of crappy zerg vs zerg vs zerg? I just lost my interest... Wildstar now are our only hope for good MMO with MMO content, not single/co-op rpg published as MMO.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    It won't be anything like as good as daoc pvp wise.

    Still I expect it to have better pvp than wow clone games like Wildstar.
  • DahkohtDahkoht Pelham, ALPosts: 290Member
    Ill likely still play it as enjoyed DAOC also , but my favorite PVP battles have always been I impromptu ones like Tarren Mill escalation mass fights in vanilla WoW , or east common fights raging on the Zek servers in original EQ before that.

    There's just something about a battle being able to break out most any where in the game world that makes true world PVP more fun for me.
  • kragekrage Miami, FLPosts: 419Member

    3 factions used to work with the other generations of MMO gamers for some reason. Now if you watch the most modern 3 way largescale pvp game (GW2) you will see how the newer generations of MMOers (WoW and newer) treat 3 way matches.

    3 way should be balanced by having the two lower/weaker realms working together to take out the top realm in the match, however in todays mmo culture I have noticed it usually devolves into the bottom two contenders fighting each other just to avoid "losing" or last place while the top realm/faction ends up widening the gap.

    In my example I am referring to GW2 mainly since that is the newest game to try the 3 way method, perhaps the GW2 flaw was from ranking the realms which makes it super competitive and no one wants to drop down tiers due to pride over having epic battles.

    For me 3 way battles are still not done right and personally I think TESO should avoid any kind of ranking system to hopefully let 3 way matches have the intended balance outcome and not a ranking race. 

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  • karat76karat76 Wellston, OHPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon
    DAoC's RvR was the only form of pvp i ever enjoyed so this is a plus in my book. I can also deal with not seeing the opposing faction as no good can come of it. Too many people playing mmos for it not to be flooded by newbie ganking or harassing jerks with names that break immersion. I hope they have a very strict naming policy for players and guilds. No Ipwnus,EL33ts or urmomismyepicmount.
  • BMBenderBMBender Nowhere, NCPosts: 568Member Uncommon

    Probably all those points were raised in design meetings.  I would hazard to guess there was at least one more point raised.  The core IP they are basing the game off of was pure exploration/single player.  Even modded there were never any pvp maps, activities.  If they wanted to tap that potential market (and one would assume they do since they used that IP) in any meaningful way a pure pvp focus would probably have defeated it.

     

    Consider the debate when basic systems and pvp were announced, at least 1/3 of participants from various media stated they weren't even going to give the game a glance, let alone try it out.  Like I said I'm sure that was a factor of their thinking.

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  • ZutchZutch famagustaPosts: 52Member Uncommon
    totally ...3 is just retarded
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Krage

    You summed gw2 up perfectly with the wors "match"

    That's the problem with WvW, its too artificial and "gamey". It does indeed feel like a "big battleground", like all the "wow owpvp was the best" people like go point out. The best thing they could do for WvW is to get rid of the tournament element and the leaderboards, they should also make the maps more natural, eater than like a huge wow battleground with their symmetrical layouts.

    Rvr done right like daoc and planetside 1 doesn't feel like that, it feels much more organic.
  • ExittiumExittium Spokane, WAPosts: 19Member
    Originally posted by IV_Talek
    So no other pvp options instead of crappy zerg vs zerg vs zerg? I just lost my interest... Wildstar now are our only hope for good MMO with MMO content, not single/co-op rpg published as MMO.

    Yes you're so right, another wow clone rip-off is what we need... *smh, just go back and play wow... tired of these trolls who love these wow spin offs... because in a weeks time they'll while and say it's not wow and be right back in wow..

  • AlomarAlomar Middle Earth, NJPosts: 447Member Uncommon
    While I love large scale pvp myself, I have to agree that removing pvp with other factions out of Cyrodiil just seems like a way to cater to pvpers and pve'ers without choosing one over the other. This is why I'm looking forward to CU so much, as a hardcore pvper atleast I know where they stand.

    Dozens of MMO's, RTS's, FPS's, etc.

  • eric_w66eric_w66 North Richland Hills, TXPosts: 1,006Member

    "At least we know ESO will have three factions as opposed to the inherently broken two."

     

    So instead of the inherently broken two, we have the inherently broken three. What an upgrade. This game needs to ditch the separate area/alliances idea, and go with 1 "server" with open world PvP, and one without. Those who want to PvP all the time can go to one and do their thing, and those who don't can go to the other and do their thing.

     

    Developers always want to tie end game PvP into getting endgame PvE stuff because of the lack of participation that normally comes when you try to force people to PvP when they don't want to. DAOC proved it didn't work, yet those devs are still trying to come to grips why.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Lol how did "daoc proved it didn't work"

    2nd most populated western mmo at the time.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Also, while I find it arcadey, lots and lots of people play WvW.

    Then you've got ps2, which has 3/4 million unique logins per week according to sonys march report.

    So there Is definetly a market for 3 sided pvp.
  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 salem, ORPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Lol how did "daoc proved it didn't work"

    2nd most populated western mmo at the time.

    Daoc was only "2nd" for a period of 4 months, and even that was neck and neck with UO. FFIX matched it in its first 3 months, and then beat it, and SWG launched with nearly 130% of Daoc's subs at the time.

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • eric_w66eric_w66 North Richland Hills, TXPosts: 1,006Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Lol how did "daoc proved it didn't work"

    2nd most populated western mmo at the time.

    2nd out of 2 isn't that good. And it went to third when WoW came out, and 4th whenever the next one came out...

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Originally posted by eric_w66
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Lol how did "daoc proved it didn't work"

    2nd most populated western mmo at the time.

    2nd out of 2 isn't that good. And it went to third when WoW came out, and 4th whenever the next one came out...

    out of 2???????

    err EQ, DAOC, UO, SWG, AC, AO, EVE, planetside all existed pre wow.  (coh and EQ2 did too, but same year)

     

    WOW came out at a good time, when people started getting broadband,  you cant compare subs of post broadband games to pre broadband games.  If you use that twisted logic, SWTOR is a masterpiece and EQ a flop.

     

    You obviously dont like RVR.  But no one in their right mind could describe DAOC as a flop, it made a good deal of money and was a sucessful mmo for its time.   Hell even today 500k subs isn't to be sniffed at.

    [mod edit]

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Originally posted by jimdandy26
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Lol how did "daoc proved it didn't work"

    2nd most populated western mmo at the time.

    Daoc was only "2nd" for a period of 4 months, and even that was neck and neck with UO. FFIX matched it in its first 3 months, and then beat it, and SWG launched with nearly 130% of Daoc's subs at the time.

    FFIX is western?

    also SWG did have a good launch, but it was in steady competition with daoc for 2nd spot after it bedded in.  

    Both games cocked it up with ill conceived expansions of course.

  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 salem, ORPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    FFIX is western?

    also SWG did have a good launch, but it was in steady competition with daoc for 2nd spot after it bedded in.  

    Both games cocked it up with ill conceived expansions of course.

    Are you just in denial? FFXI had a rather significant western audience. Even Runescape was boasting more than 4 times the subs that Daoc was. Even after that period UO was beating Daoc, and Galaxies kept a solid 50k sub lead, Daoc was never a threat to it sub wise.

    As I said before, Daoc can claim "number 2 in the west" for all of a 4 month period, and that is only if you neglect to mention things like Runescape.

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • triton54xtriton54x canton, GAPosts: 39Member

    leaving pvp to only one area is dumb theres no surprise in that.

    I want to be questing and know that I could be killed at any moment.

    and I also have a question.-------  can we not see other the other faction zones or even visit them until we finish with our zones..

    and one we did how do the npc of other zones act towards us? doesn't makes much since to me

     

     

     

  • HoliceHolice Bradenton, FLPosts: 116Member
    Planetside 1 did great with three faction pvp. Devs should take a lesson from them. Multiple zones to attack, easy access to each zone, and substantial value in capture points. Not too mention being rewarded for completing the job.
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