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I want to pay for the game and have a sub.

RinnaRinna Las Vegas, NVPosts: 388Member

I don't want Wildstar to be free to play.  I want their business model to be exactly like WoW's.  Barrier to entry, submission based, almost all perks and fun stuff are part of a monthly sub, other non-game breaking, cosmetic fluff in a cash shop.

I hate F2P games and the AH crash going on right now in Neverwinter is a perfect example of why.  20 bucks a month... sound fair?  Please give me back sub based gaming.

No bitchers.

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Comments

  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 salem, ORPosts: 527Member
    Well, besides the number of other threads this could have gone in, no. I would rather the company did not gouge with box+sub+cash shop like WoW has done.

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • DogblasterDogblaster PraguePosts: 491Member
    Originally posted by Rinna

    I don't want Wildstar to be free to play.  I want their business model to be exactly like WoW's.  Barrier to entry, submission based, almost all perks and fun stuff are part of a monthly sub, other non-game breaking, cosmetic fluff in a cash shop.

    I hate F2P games and the AH crash going on right now in Neverwinter is a perfect example of why.  20 bucks a month... sound fair?  Please give me back sub based gaming.

    Dont worry .. I can guarantee you that WildStar is not going to be f2p.

    Its either p2p or maybe b2p.

  • DahkohtDahkoht Pelham, ALPosts: 290Member
    My ideal would be box price plus sub fee and zero cash shop even cosmetic items.
  • silvermembersilvermember saint paul, MNPosts: 531Member
    Originally posted by Rinna

    I don't want Wildstar to be free to play.  I want their business model to be exactly like WoW's.  Barrier to entry, submission based, almost all perks and fun stuff are part of a monthly sub, other non-game breaking, cosmetic fluff in a cash shop.

    I hate F2P games and the AH crash going on right now in Neverwinter is a perfect example of why.  20 bucks a month... sound fair?  Please give me back sub based gaming.

    If it makes you feel any better, what YOU want isn't relevant to the NCsoft. If you really want to influence their decision supposedly by 6.5% of the company and you can have your opinions heard.

     

    ADDED: btw isn't it a little too early to be saying you prefer a sub f2p? I have been around mmo to know that people like YOU are the first to complain about the game the game saying it is not worth the sub. 

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,783Member Uncommon

    its totally understandable that some people prefer subscriptions for various reasons. That is your preference and that is fine.

     

    I would be happy to purchase the game and any expansions and cosmetic fluff in cash shop, but i will not subscribe.

    I have purchased every subscription mmo that came out in the last few years and all of them are Free to play now with subscription option or buy to play with sub option too. Wildstar has potential to go the same route and i will wait for that day to play it past the first free 30 days. That is my preference and that is also fine.

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  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member

    It blows me away that there are ppl out there that think a cash shop selling ANYTHING in a sub game is ok.

    Even blizzard has said the age of subs is probably coming to an end. The market has changed.

  • DOGMA1138DOGMA1138 none of your buidnessPosts: 476Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jimdandy26
    Well, besides the number of other threads this could have gone in, no. I would rather the company did not gouge with box+sub+cash shop like WoW has done.

    WoW gauges players? The in game store(and that's a stretch since it's not actually in game) has 0 relevant items, people spend far more in "F2P" games that lock pretty much every basic goal/feature behind some kind of a microtransaction.

    If you want to spend 20 Euro's for a pet or a mount when their counterparts is just as easily(heck even more) achievable in game it's your problem.

    If blizzard could convert WoW to a F2P title with an item mall they would've done so, the problem is that the cost of it will be just too much with how the game is set up. F2P games make more per player than sub games sadly because there are enough people who think spending 100$+ a month on a game is something you should do no matter how much disposable income you have, and kids have very easy access to their parents credit cards these days.

     

  • SoMuchMassSoMuchMass New York, NYPosts: 548Member
    Originally posted by DamonVile

    It blows me away that there are ppl out there that think a cash shop selling ANYTHING in a sub game is ok.

    Even blizzard has said the age of subs is probably coming to an end. The market has changed.

    The "age of subs" have not come to an end.  Millions of people pay subscriptions to most of their services including entertainment (see Netflix).  What has come to an end is people paying subscription to sub par games.

  • reeereeereeereee Posts: 1,203Member Uncommon

    I can't believe people spend time worrying about this.  Any game that has a prayer of selling a few hundred thousand $60 boxes will go that route.  Any game that thinks what they're offering is good enough people will pay for a sub will ask for it...  it's six months down the line when a lot people have stopped thinking the game is worth paying a sub that f2p time comes.

     

    If the game delivers on it's hype then there is no reason to worry about f2p, and if it doesn't, then who cares?

  • TheHavokTheHavok San Jose, CAPosts: 2,398Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by silvermember
    Originally posted by Rinna

    I don't want Wildstar to be free to play.  I want their business model to be exactly like WoW's.  Barrier to entry, submission based, almost all perks and fun stuff are part of a monthly sub, other non-game breaking, cosmetic fluff in a cash shop.

    I hate F2P games and the AH crash going on right now in Neverwinter is a perfect example of why.  20 bucks a month... sound fair?  Please give me back sub based gaming.

    If it makes you feel any better, what YOU want isn't relevant to the NCsoft. If you really want to influence their decision supposedly by 6.5% of the company and you can have your opinions heard.

     

    ADDED: btw isn't it a little too early to be saying you prefer a sub f2p? I have been around mmo to know that people like YOU are the first to complain about the game the game saying it is not worth the sub. 

    And that was suppose to make them feel better how? OP simply stated they wanted  P2P model for wildstar. Why exactly does that draw a knee jerk angry reaction from you?

  • FusionFusion VaasaPosts: 1,391Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jimdandy26
    Well, besides the number of other threads this could have gone in, no. I would rather the company did not gouge with box+sub+cash shop like WoW has done.

    WoW cash-shop came something like 2-3years after launch? and it had couple of mounts and it wasn't integrated into the game client (atleast when i last played back in WotLK), out of sight, out of mind.

    Nothing in WoW cash-shop was/is worth the money.

    Currently playing: -

    Waiting for: Class4.

    Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  • silvermembersilvermember saint paul, MNPosts: 531Member
    Originally posted by SoMuchMass
    Originally posted by DamonVile

    It blows me away that there are ppl out there that think a cash shop selling ANYTHING in a sub game is ok.

    Even blizzard has said the age of subs is probably coming to an end. The market has changed.

    The "age of subs" have not come to an end.  Millions of people pay subscriptions to most of their services including entertainment (see Netflix).  What has come to an end is people paying subscription to sub par games.

    That is because you are comparing 2 different situations.

    Cable on average cost 50 bucks at month. Generally, you have NO other options, you either pay it or enjoy your free 3 channels. MMO are different, you have a lot of choices. You can pretty much avoid paying for an MMO and still play an MMO. For cable, unless you want to torrent (which most people dont), netflix is a great alternative for those people. 

    Soooooooooooooooooooooo, YOU CANNOT compare netflix to game subscription. Not only that, but with netflix you can watch a lot of different shows. with an MMO subscription you play the same content month after month and if you need new content they generally charge you a 39.99, while my netflix sub will still cost me 9 bucks. 

    TL;DR

    Netflix offer more value and cheaper than cable. Subscription are not much better than a lot of f2p games.

  • silvermembersilvermember saint paul, MNPosts: 531Member
    Originally posted by TheHavok
    Originally posted by silvermember
    Originally posted by Rinna

    I don't want Wildstar to be free to play.  I want their business model to be exactly like WoW's.  Barrier to entry, submission based, almost all perks and fun stuff are part of a monthly sub, other non-game breaking, cosmetic fluff in a cash shop.

    I hate F2P games and the AH crash going on right now in Neverwinter is a perfect example of why.  20 bucks a month... sound fair?  Please give me back sub based gaming.

    If it makes you feel any better, what YOU want isn't relevant to the NCsoft. If you really want to influence their decision supposedly by 6.5% of the company and you can have your opinions heard.

     

    ADDED: btw isn't it a little too early to be saying you prefer a sub f2p? I have been around mmo to know that people like YOU are the first to complain about the game the game saying it is not worth the sub. 

    And that was suppose to make them feel better how? OP simply stated they wanted  P2P model for wildstar. Why exactly does that draw a knee jerk angry reaction from you?

    It wasn't suppose to make the OP feel better, I was simply giving the OP a realistic answer (I know how ppl hate answer that contradict their own on game forums0. Ultimately, what the OP wants and what i want, is irrelevant to Ncsoft, they are gonna go with the payment method that makes them the most money.

  • EternalSage2000EternalSage2000 Anchorage, AKPosts: 29Member

    I tend to prefer the kinds of people who are willing to shell out a little cash for monthly sub, over the people who feel they are entitled to everything without paying anything.

     

  • SiphaedSiphaed Everywhere!Posts: 879Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rinna

    I don't want Wildstar to be free to play.  I want their business model to be exactly like WoW's.  Barrier to entry, submission based, almost all perks and fun stuff are part of a monthly sub, other non-game breaking, cosmetic fluff in a cash shop.

    I hate F2P games and the AH crash going on right now in Neverwinter is a perfect example of why.  20 bucks a month... sound fair?  Please give me back sub based gaming.

    You're a fool....a fool's fool, to  believe that subscriptions have "perks and fun stuff" compared to non-sub games.   Compare the monthly content updates of a game like Guild Wars 2 to a game like WoW.   There's far more content updates in an not-so-polished, less than a year old game than there have been for an 8 year old, well polished game.  Why is that? Where's the value in the subscription based game if a non-sub game can push out more content updates in a shorter amount of time for just the cost of the box as entry.

     

    Sure, Neverwinter was/is a 'crash-and-burn' scenario, but that's because it was a predictable end to something made by Cryptic and Perfect Word Entertainment.  I'm unsure on familiarities with PWE, but Cryptic I'm far too familiar with in their negative exploits of Star Trek Online and Champions Online.   They've made milking machines out of both of those games, so why wouldn't they do it for Neverwinter?

     

    Unless there's a game out there -other than Rift- that can put an actual value to subscription costs, then there is really no reason to do the whole "subscription" thing anymore.  In fact, Rift is going F2P, which is a tell out of how gating that subscriptions can be, even on a game that does constant content updates for it's players (Rift was far better in updates than WoW was, just as GW2 is...really put a value to the subscriptions, even if it focused heavily on raiding content).


  • DahkohtDahkoht Pelham, ALPosts: 290Member
    Originally posted by EternalSage2000

    I tend to prefer the kinds of people who are willing to shell out a little cash for monthly sub, over the people who feel they are entitled to everything without paying anything.

     

    An excellent point.

    The chat in NW the first few days was enjoyable , the only people playing were founders and guardians who had to spend money.

    Then F2P came in.

    There are great F2P players.

    There are zergs of rude/idiot/cheating F2P players.

    I'd lose playing with the friendly F2P players to not have to deal with the second group of them.

  • SoMuchMassSoMuchMass New York, NYPosts: 548Member
    Originally posted by Siphaed
     

    You're a fool....a fool's fool, to  believe that subscriptions have "perks and fun stuff" compared to non-sub games.   Compare the monthly content updates of a game like Guild Wars 2 to a game like WoW.   There's far more content updates in an not-so-polished, less than a year old game than there have been for an 8 year old, well polished game.  Why is that? Where's the value in the subscription based game if a non-sub game can push out more content updates in a shorter amount of time for just the cost of the box as entry.

    GW2 is a bad example of a B2P game.  They launched incomplete with features people expect in modern MMOs.  They don't have dueling, dungeon finder, Battleground finder, UI customization etc.  It was probably due to their limited funds and payment model.

    GW2 was launched with 8 dungeons and 1 PvP sPvP mode.  That is extremely behind most modern MMOs, including Tera which had 16 at launch.  Even if GW2 released a dungeon a month it was behind in "content".  But their "content" has mostly been bug fixes.

    If WildStar can pull of WoW/Rift style content with a B2P model I would be suprised.  It isn't easy funding a team that can do things like 20 and 40 man raid updates with those models.

     

  • ZadawnZadawn SPosts: 651Member Common
    Box+sub but no fucking cash shops.Not now,not ever.

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  • SoMuchMassSoMuchMass New York, NYPosts: 548Member

    Netflix offer more value and cheaper than cable. Subscription are not much better than a lot of f2p games.

    "Value" depends on the person.  Most people use Netflix as a complement to their cable subscription not as a replacement, so that whole example was flawed.

    Subscriptions to MMOs are still the best value for your money, again that is good MMOs not the generic stuff we keep getting.

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon

    I would be delighted if Wildstar launched as a P2P game. I'd happily pay $20 a month to play it.

     

    Just please, please don't let it be a MMORPG built to launch as purely F2P, because then I wouldn't want to play it...

  • SiphaedSiphaed Everywhere!Posts: 879Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SoMuchMass
    Originally posted by Siphaed
     

    You're a fool....a fool's fool, to  believe that subscriptions have "perks and fun stuff" compared to non-sub games.   Compare the monthly content updates of a game like Guild Wars 2 to a game like WoW.   There's far more content updates in an not-so-polished, less than a year old game than there have been for an 8 year old, well polished game.  Why is that? Where's the value in the subscription based game if a non-sub game can push out more content updates in a shorter amount of time for just the cost of the box as entry.

    GW2 is a bad example of a B2P game.  They launched incomplete with features people expect in modern MMOs.  They don't have dueling, dungeon finder, Battleground finder, UI customization etc.  It was probably due to their limited funds and payment model.

    GW2 was launched with 8 dungeons and 1 PvP sPvP mode.  That is extremely behind most modern MMOs, including Tera which had 16 at launch.  Even if GW2 released a dungeon a month it was behind in "content".  But their "content" has mostly been bug fixes.

    If WildStar can pull of WoW/Rift style content with a B2P model I would be suprised.  It isn't easy funding a team that can do things like 20 and 40 man raid updates with those models.

     

    Those "features" are what raiders expect...what people who are obsessed with the carrot-style dungeon crawl expect.., but they are by no means a requirement or standard. 

     

    Battleground finder? Seriously?  For WvWvW, just pick a map and go, and for sPvP there's a full list of every available server, no need for such as WoWish thing that hides it's options behind a 'finder'.

     

    Dungeon Finder...they are working on one, but they want to make it semi-perfect to where it's not just gathering non-sociable people and teleporting them to a dungeon without any communication the entire time.  Those things are totally anti-social trash that ruins an MMORPG.

     

    Dueling? What's the point of dueling except stretching your epeen in hopes that it's slightly bigger than the next guy's.  Right?  Ya, thought so.  Instead there's custom arenas where players can set up duels if they choose, but in WvW and the rest of the PvE content, where balance is wacked out and not even on a 1vs1 scale, there's no point to duels.

     

    Custom UI is another thing of what you want, but by no means a need at all.  As long as a UI is fluid and usable in a set up way, it's fine. Certain parts of the GW2 UI care moveable and customizable, but to a limited extend within the boundries of the game.  [Based on what I've seen from Wildstar's gameplay, it seems that the UI is also going to be fixed.  Remember: 9 abilities total for player's to use on bar at a given time.]

     

    So stop trying to imprint your "MMO standards" on to other games and call them failures or bad based on them not meeting what you personally expect.  There are games that are making big changes like GW2 and Wildstar because many of the WoW clones that stuck to those 'standards' have nearly bellied up because of being basically the same thing with a different skin. 

     

    GW2 isn't WoW; Wildstar isn't WoW.  Don't like it?  There's the door.  However, Wildstar is similar to GW2 with it's action combat, dynamic environmental events; it has limited abilities on bar, but still gives players enough options during combat.  But that's where the similarities end as Wildstar goes for a more humorous approach, includes housing, keeps the Trinity trope and sticks to a Sci-Fi theme instead of Fantasy.

     

    P.S. Why am I even arguing with you? You're the troll on Massively.com that constantly goes into every GW2 article posted and start spamming shit talk left and right. 


  • sado2020sado2020 elizabethtown, KYPosts: 112Member
    Personally I'd prefer a B2P model like GW2 or how TSW is now.  But if the game is entertaining as I hope it would be then I wouldn't notice a sub if there was one attached XD

    Playing: TSW, D&D NW, Defiance (more the tv show than game >.> ) LotRO, DCUO

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  • SinakuSinaku Austin, TXPosts: 481Member Uncommon

    $20 a month is too steep. 10-15 a month and I'm fine. I dont personally like cash shops or F2P games either. I'd rather it be B2P or P2P. GW2 is the only game that has done B2P correctly that I've played (even though I don't play it anymore). I'm excited for WildStar and will play it regardless of the payment type.

  • SoMuchMassSoMuchMass New York, NYPosts: 548Member
    Originally posted by Siphaed
     

    Those "features" are what raiders expect...what people who are obsessed with the carrot-style dungeon crawl expect.., but they are by no means a requirement or standard. 

     

    So stop trying to imprint your "MMO standards" on to other games and call them failures or bad based on them not meeting what you personally expect.  There are games that are making big changes like GW2 and Wildstar because many of the WoW clones that stuck to those 'standards' have nearly bellied up because of being basically the same thing with a different skin. 

     

    GW2 isn't WoW; Wildstar isn't WoW.  Don't like it?  There's the door.  However, Wildstar is similar to GW2 with it's action combat, dynamic environmental events; it has limited abilities on bar, but still gives players enough options during combat.  But that's where the similarities end as Wildstar goes for a more humorous approach, includes housing, keeps the Trinity trope and sticks to a Sci-Fi theme instead of Fantasy.

     

    There are standards that people expect, and "not just raiders".  My point is GW2 is a bad example of a B2P system because the game launched without most features people expect in modern day MMOs.  Thankfully WildStar has all of those features, based on interviews and will not launch an incomplete game.

    We as consumers need to stop making excuses for games that are launched with sub par content and features because it only hurts the industry.  People expect dungeon finders, they expect to queue for sPvP anywhere in  the world, they except they can customize their UI.  People shouldn't be going to third party sites for these services.

    WildStar as a game is the complete OPPOSITE of everything GW2 in terms of the very core game design aspects and thank god for that.  They have 20 and 40 man raids, they have healers, they have mounts, they have the trinity system.  They have progression in both PvP and PvE. They have player factions. They have seamless worlds instead of a series of instances.  They will also launch with features which most AAA have including Dungeon finder.

    The only thing WildStar has in common with GW2 is the combat (it isn't action combat it is a hybrid system).  WildStar has more in common with WoW than GW2.

  • JinxysJinxys TinkerTownPosts: 393Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SoMuchMass
    Originally posted by DamonVile

    It blows me away that there are ppl out there that think a cash shop selling ANYTHING in a sub game is ok.

    Even blizzard has said the age of subs is probably coming to an end. The market has changed.

    The "age of subs" have not come to an end.  Millions of people pay subscriptions to most of their services including entertainment (see Netflix).  What has come to an end is people paying subscription to sub par games.

    ^ This. This is exactly it. Couldn't of said it better myself, Sir. :)

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