So basically what I am getting from this is, say I shop at Walmart and someone shoplifts from said Walmart and then sells the products they stole to someone else. I should then demand all my money back from the Walmart and demand they remove all of their stock and restock the store.
Hmm.
I think we need to test this....
I'll get my keys and meet you out front!
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Don't be absurd , obviously the line would be drawn somewhere. I was simply pointing out that it's not impossible, it was implied that it was a manual labor sort of job, and it isn't.
Means technically the company can easily shield against refunds as the game is prone to bugs and not launched as yet.
Claiming it's an "Open Beta" (arguments of it actually being a soft release because they invalidated that claim the moment they opened their cash shop aside) only excuses the bugs, however if a customer files for a refund they can't refuse as long as it's a legitimate request ("I paid $10 but didn't receive any Zen" or "I paid $200 for a Founder's Pack but didn't get all the rewards", for example).
"Oh, you didn't receive your Zen/rewards because of a bug" isn't a legitimate refusal for the example refund requests, regardless of the state of the game.
You might could have at least waited to see if they were going to resolve the issue you posted about. Granted they probably wont, but waiting and seeing what happened before doing a chargeback would have been prudent.
The CC companies do not like it when you do this either. Activity such as this will determine your line of credit, interest rate, ect. in the future as well. I am not saying you did anything wrong necessarily, but those are considerations.
Depending on the form of payment used. It could have been time sensitive, and they didn't feel like, given that this problem had been in previous games and wasn't fixed, they didn't feel like sticking around to watch for the correction? ..Just a guess. Not to mention the rude handling of people asking questions or expecting customer service? Not ok.
Can I have your stuff?! Oh wait, you got banned...
This is a prime example of the feeling of entitlement people have now. You're mad about an exploit so you do a chargeback? What ever happened to buyer beware? Now we just have a right to play something for over a month and if I don't like it just charge it back!
Can I have your stuff?! Oh wait, you got banned...
This is a prime example of the feeling of entitlement people have now. You're mad about an exploit so you do a chargeback? What ever happened to buyer beware? Now we just have a right to play something for over a month and if I don't like it just charge it back!
Stay classy OP
Was the "Stay Classy" directed at the Never Winter staff for banning people for asking questions, or banning people for turning in customer service tickets repeatedly because they were never answered? Neither on the website or in game? If so, the attempt at sarcasm brought a slight smile. Normally in these situations the people with that attitude are the ones' who've contributed not one cent to the game. Some agreed, did have "the right to play something for over a month" because they had well over $250.00 invested per player, plus Zen; (600.00 per household) I am not sure where I personally stand on complete roll back vs what they did. But if someone banned me for expressing myself? I'd have done the exact same thing. Sooo.. stay classy? Indeed..Please do.
Not to be snide but that is why smart people wait before they invest in games like this.
But even funnier is that this will not hurt the game the slightest... In a few weeks it will be forgotten and a huge chunk of the people who "quit" will be back spending like it is Christmas.
I may come off very rude here, but I wouldn't call people smart for holding off, its just common sense. There is no reason ever for preordering, especially not a "open beta" product.
Not to be snide but that is why smart people wait before they invest in games like this.
But even funnier is that this will not hurt the game the slightest... In a few weeks it will be forgotten and a huge chunk of the people who "quit" will be back spending like it is Christmas.
I may come off very rude here, but I wouldn't call people smart for holding off, its just common sense. There is no reason ever for preordering, especially not a "open beta" product.
There is always going to be a huge percentage of people playing f2p games that NEVER pay one cent, in fact; certain types flock to them. You say one word and people run in droves...FREE. Not to put too fine a point on it. If not for those "investors" that do put money into f2p games, I doubt they'd stand very long. Some people wouldn't have spent a dime this time ten years from now. Your choice. Just like it's other people's decisions to spend money on whatever they like.
because the virtual goods players bought by real money got devalued by bugs.
So if I could buy a castle with my ZEN/AD without bugs and have a real "virtual good" for my money that way, how it was intended and advertised - to reach a playing end faster than non-payers - then it would work fine. But the bugs allow non-payers to reach certain goals even faster than anyone could realistically achieve by spending real money in a proper amount on Neverwinter. So it's impossible now to segregate from nonpaying players using the cash shop which is obsolete that way.
Therefore the game isn't working as intended or as advertised, cause the value of a "virtual good" is always measured in comparison to as hard as it's to get and how many people possess it.
because the virtual goods players bought by real money got devalued by bugs.
So if I could buy a castle with my ZEN/AD without bugs and have a real "virtual good" for my money that way, how it was intended and advertised - to reach a playing end faster than non-payers - then it would work fine. But the bugs allow non-payers to reach certain goals even faster than anyone could realistically achieve by spending real money in a proper amount on Neverwinter. So it's impossible now to segregate from nonpaying players using the cash shop which is obsolete that way.
Therefore the game isn't working as intended or as advertised, cause the value of a "virtual good" is always measured in comparison to as hard as it's to get and how many people possess it.
Indeed, However to "fix" that now...the only way would be a complete "wipe" and refund. That probably will never happen.
You might could have at least waited to see if they were going to resolve the issue you posted about. Granted they probably wont, but waiting and seeing what happened before doing a chargeback would have been prudent.
The CC companies do not like it when you do this either. Activity such as this will determine your line of credit, interest rate, ect. in the future as well. I am not saying you did anything wrong necessarily, but those are considerations.
As an adult that knows how credit works (more or less) I can tell you that, no, it will not hurt his credit score.
They banned my account , for asking for a refund in a thread about that exact subject , that's why I then promptly went and did the chargeback , their response to all of us with zero communication , for posting in a thread.
And really folks , do any of you think Discover doesn't side with me on this one ?
PWE now has to
1.) submit a response to them
2.)submit said response to them in time
3.)show why they banned my account for asking for a refund
4.)prove my assertion their product was "not ready to be sold and in an incomplete state, the quality is not what I expected"
Then if they actually manage to do all of the above , convince the dispute department on every account they have a case , I get to respond and so on , and at any point they don't make a deadline or such it's closed and done.
Seriously folks , they let a massive bug like this through their game , haven't answered people for weeks now who emailed customer support , they don't have a clue how to run a large scale mmo.
My cc company says I should file a dispute if I don't find a product as expected , and well , I don't , now I'll let Discover decide if I or PWE is right.
Who do you think wins that ?
My wife and I are very close to doing the same thing with AmEx. We've also got lawyers that we will contact if we have any issues with it. If it gets to extreme I'll be starting a class action lawsuit against them but my experiences with the customer service wise to this point have not been bad so I don't really see it being a huge issue.
I turned in a few customer service tickets. The first one on the 8th, answered finally on the 21st. With a do not reply to this message, if it happens again contact us. Marked as closed/solved. But it wasn't. Two replies, same time. Both dealt with the same way. Did nothing. They considered it solved. And after the "rollback" clearly they didn't get all the cats or money out of the game. People were selling them AND the gold spammers were like roaches, "all up in my mailbox" But I guess this was "solved" with the rollback.
Reading comprehension is non-existent. The vast majority of online commentators are soap-box self-promoters. They literally ignore EVERYTHING others say, and then speak whatever they want, even when it makes absolutely no sense. You know how you feel like people keep not comprehending what you mean by "product or service did not meet my expectations"? They aren't comprehending it because they aren't attempting to comprehend ANYTHING you say. In fact, I would be incredibly shocked to find out they even read what you say. They most likely skim over it, if not ignore it entirely.
The idiocy online is rampant, but I have learned the best trick on this forum. I must thank you for making this thread, because it has helped me perform this trick that helps me so greatly. What is the trick?
The Block Function.
Block. Block. Block.
I literally lurk through threads, find threads like this, skim through them to find idiots, and block them. Anyone who defends PWE or attacks the OP is obviously a massive troll that has no idea what real life is about.
Do yourself a favorite and block. Block Block Block. Any idiot. Any troll. Any kiddie.
Reading these replies, those who I blocked don't seem to understand how the real world works. One poster in particular, LITERALLY doesn't understand how real life works. They assume your CC will be against you, side with PWE, and consider you fraudulent. I must thank you for this thread, as that made me laugh at the naivety of that user.
In fact, I have gotten many laughs out of this thread, an overwhelming number of facepalms, and a MUCH needed cleansing of the forum idiots that plague this website. I have had to have blocked at least 10 people for various idiocy. Thank you!
This poster has the right of it.
If you don't think for a moment that this incident isn't just terrible negligence on Cryptic's part, you have some other agenda, an inability to rationally think, or depend upon them for a paycheck. I was an alpha tester; several exploits which have come up in recent times were reported months ago, in alpha. Not that the alpha testers really had more than 2-3 nights a week to actually test.
Here's another little factoid for you. We made a guild of the Foundry alpha authors, just to stay in touch post-launch. These guys were dedicated content creators. The experience for them has been so drastically horrible, most have quit the game totally, and at least 5 refunded or charged back, as they are listed as "invalid user" in my friends list. This includes the guy who wrote most of the documentation for the Foundry still being passed around today (which was a fan-created guide).
I'm utterly flabbergasted by the ignorance and self-righteousness that the defenders of this game have managed to bring to this thread.
The funny thing is I hate the negativity being thrown around here and there. I'm not opposed to the game; it's a game. I don't think it's a terrible game, that it should fail (lulz!) or anything else. I'm not even a doomcrier screaming "the end is nigh!"
But the developers made major mistakes (which Jack Emmert swore to not repeat). Read the quote below from an interview. Can you say that they have, in any way, followed this strategy?
"What I forgot was, inasmuch as a consumer or a player, if it isn't there at launch it might as well not be there, well if it's in half-done or half-done well, that's what you get remembered for.... So we have a very different mindset here. Right now, whatever we do, it's got to be the best possible quality we can."
- Jack Emmert, CEO Cryptic
If the results recently are "the best possible results", I can advise anyone with money invested who wish to see a return on that investment to get a refund. Game-breaking bugs, found by testers, have been ignored (this from before open beta). I don't know of a software company that actively ignores exploits to release a game. Sticking your head in the sand isn't going to change facts.
You might could have at least waited to see if they were going to resolve the issue you posted about. Granted they probably wont, but waiting and seeing what happened before doing a chargeback would have been prudent.
The CC companies do not like it when you do this either. Activity such as this will determine your line of credit, interest rate, ect. in the future as well. I am not saying you did anything wrong necessarily, but those are considerations.
As an adult that knows how credit works (more or less) I can tell you that, no, it will not hurt his credit score.
I never said anything about a credit score. And being an adult myself who knows how credit works, this type of activity can have a negative consequence. Once or twice, probably not. If they see a pattern then it will for sure.
Is it gonna flag on your FICO? No it wont. But CC companies can and will increase your interest rate, may not raise your line of credit , ect. if they see this activity poping up often.
That will not happen to the OP unless he does this type of thing often. All I was saying was even tho he was pissed off ( justifiably) he may could have waited or tried another method of resolution. After all he did buy a beta product from a company known to have had issues like this in the past.
I dont know if he was right or wrong, not for me to judge.
Everytime i read a post like this, i cant help but laugh. Seriously? Are you that naive to think the game you like best will be finished, have everything you want, give you everything you ask for, and be perfect? Its common sense that it will never be like this.
Yet so many go out on a limb due to eye candy, fluff, and a version of a crappy story line and throw money at games that are no better than the last series of bad games. Then get pist and whine for a refund.
With a cash shop in beta it pretty much means no wipe, common sense.
I just dont understand gamers today at all, jump to throw money away when the proper course of action is to wait a little while and see how the game pans out and what changes are made before release.
Those little trinkets you get from buying into the game early is not worth the hundreds you invest and lose when the game you think is golden falls apart before you and you are out all that money.
Comments
I think we need to test this....
I'll get my keys and meet you out front!
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Isn't the game in open beta
Means technically the company can easily shield against refunds as the game is prone to bugs and not launched as yet.
Claiming it's an "Open Beta" (arguments of it actually being a soft release because they invalidated that claim the moment they opened their cash shop aside) only excuses the bugs, however if a customer files for a refund they can't refuse as long as it's a legitimate request ("I paid $10 but didn't receive any Zen" or "I paid $200 for a Founder's Pack but didn't get all the rewards", for example).
"Oh, you didn't receive your Zen/rewards because of a bug" isn't a legitimate refusal for the example refund requests, regardless of the state of the game.
Depending on the form of payment used. It could have been time sensitive, and they didn't feel like, given that this problem had been in previous games and wasn't fixed, they didn't feel like sticking around to watch for the correction? ..Just a guess. Not to mention the rude handling of people asking questions or expecting customer service? Not ok.
Can I have your stuff?! Oh wait, you got banned...
This is a prime example of the feeling of entitlement people have now. You're mad about an exploit so you do a chargeback? What ever happened to buyer beware? Now we just have a right to play something for over a month and if I don't like it just charge it back!
Stay classy OP
Was the "Stay Classy" directed at the Never Winter staff for banning people for asking questions, or banning people for turning in customer service tickets repeatedly because they were never answered? Neither on the website or in game? If so, the attempt at sarcasm brought a slight smile. Normally in these situations the people with that attitude are the ones' who've contributed not one cent to the game. Some agreed, did have "the right to play something for over a month" because they had well over $250.00 invested per player, plus Zen; (600.00 per household) I am not sure where I personally stand on complete roll back vs what they did. But if someone banned me for expressing myself? I'd have done the exact same thing. Sooo.. stay classy? Indeed..Please do.
I may come off very rude here, but I wouldn't call people smart for holding off, its just common sense. There is no reason ever for preordering, especially not a "open beta" product.
There is always going to be a huge percentage of people playing f2p games that NEVER pay one cent, in fact; certain types flock to them. You say one word and people run in droves...FREE. Not to put too fine a point on it. If not for those "investors" that do put money into f2p games, I doubt they'd stand very long. Some people wouldn't have spent a dime this time ten years from now. Your choice. Just like it's other people's decisions to spend money on whatever they like.
This product is NOT as advertised,
because the virtual goods players bought by real money got devalued by bugs.
So if I could buy a castle with my ZEN/AD without bugs and have a real "virtual good" for my money that way, how it was intended and advertised - to reach a playing end faster than non-payers - then it would work fine. But the bugs allow non-payers to reach certain goals even faster than anyone could realistically achieve by spending real money in a proper amount on Neverwinter. So it's impossible now to segregate from nonpaying players using the cash shop which is obsolete that way.
Therefore the game isn't working as intended or as advertised, cause the value of a "virtual good" is always measured in comparison to as hard as it's to get and how many people possess it.
Indeed, However to "fix" that now...the only way would be a complete "wipe" and refund. That probably will never happen.
As an adult that knows how credit works (more or less) I can tell you that, no, it will not hurt his credit score.
This poster has the right of it.
If you don't think for a moment that this incident isn't just terrible negligence on Cryptic's part, you have some other agenda, an inability to rationally think, or depend upon them for a paycheck. I was an alpha tester; several exploits which have come up in recent times were reported months ago, in alpha. Not that the alpha testers really had more than 2-3 nights a week to actually test.
Here's another little factoid for you. We made a guild of the Foundry alpha authors, just to stay in touch post-launch. These guys were dedicated content creators. The experience for them has been so drastically horrible, most have quit the game totally, and at least 5 refunded or charged back, as they are listed as "invalid user" in my friends list. This includes the guy who wrote most of the documentation for the Foundry still being passed around today (which was a fan-created guide).
I'm utterly flabbergasted by the ignorance and self-righteousness that the defenders of this game have managed to bring to this thread.
The funny thing is I hate the negativity being thrown around here and there. I'm not opposed to the game; it's a game. I don't think it's a terrible game, that it should fail (lulz!) or anything else. I'm not even a doomcrier screaming "the end is nigh!"
But the developers made major mistakes (which Jack Emmert swore to not repeat). Read the quote below from an interview. Can you say that they have, in any way, followed this strategy?
"What I forgot was, inasmuch as a consumer or a player, if it isn't there at launch it might as well not be there, well if it's in half-done or half-done well, that's what you get remembered for.... So we have a very different mindset here. Right now, whatever we do, it's got to be the best possible quality we can."
- Jack Emmert, CEO Cryptic
If the results recently are "the best possible results", I can advise anyone with money invested who wish to see a return on that investment to get a refund. Game-breaking bugs, found by testers, have been ignored (this from before open beta). I don't know of a software company that actively ignores exploits to release a game. Sticking your head in the sand isn't going to change facts.
I never said anything about a credit score. And being an adult myself who knows how credit works, this type of activity can have a negative consequence. Once or twice, probably not. If they see a pattern then it will for sure.
Is it gonna flag on your FICO? No it wont. But CC companies can and will increase your interest rate, may not raise your line of credit , ect. if they see this activity poping up often.
That will not happen to the OP unless he does this type of thing often. All I was saying was even tho he was pissed off ( justifiably) he may could have waited or tried another method of resolution. After all he did buy a beta product from a company known to have had issues like this in the past.
I dont know if he was right or wrong, not for me to judge.
Everytime i read a post like this, i cant help but laugh. Seriously? Are you that naive to think the game you like best will be finished, have everything you want, give you everything you ask for, and be perfect? Its common sense that it will never be like this.
Yet so many go out on a limb due to eye candy, fluff, and a version of a crappy story line and throw money at games that are no better than the last series of bad games. Then get pist and whine for a refund.
With a cash shop in beta it pretty much means no wipe, common sense.
I just dont understand gamers today at all, jump to throw money away when the proper course of action is to wait a little while and see how the game pans out and what changes are made before release.
Those little trinkets you get from buying into the game early is not worth the hundreds you invest and lose when the game you think is golden falls apart before you and you are out all that money.