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Our Games, Our Money, Our Morality.

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  • MadimorgaMadimorga Member UncommonPosts: 1,920
    Originally posted by WhiteLantern

    I don't even know where to begin with this one. Someone is actually trying to tie a form of entertainment to governmental archetypes.

     

    Fascinating.

     

    Actually it's more of an economic archetype or a mix of government and economics.  You can have socialism under dictatorship (never ends well) or under some form of democracy (much better idea). 

     

    Anyway, as a socialist I honestly don't care about video games much.  It's a luxury item.  I'm much more worried about the quality and availability to everyone of things no one can have a decent life without.

    image

    I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

    ~Albert Einstein

  • RavingRabbidRavingRabbid Member UncommonPosts: 1,168
    Originally posted by Muke
    Originally posted by Disatisfied9

    After all, we play them. They are our games. We buy things we play. If they were not OUR games, the company's would not have OUR money, and would quickly go out of business. WE are the reason people make games. If not for gamers, no one would play, and not even indies would want to make something for no one.

    Correction:

    World revolves around money, money pays everything, wages, bills, food, quality of life etc etc etc.

    You can be all idealistic about this and talk about ideals, dreams etc, in the end it comes down to earn more bucks then you're paying.

     

    With that said;

     

    They are NOT your games.

    The games belong to the license holders, to be blunt: you are just a renter of their service.

    They have a game, they offer you a service to rent time to play in their game. You are bound to their rules when you pay a subscription fee and agree to any ruleset -EULA- they bring forward.

    All assets in the games including characters belong to the owners of the game, not the players. When they pull the plug on the game when it dies, it's all gone.

     

     

    DING! DING! DING!DING double plunger salute to you!

     

    All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
    Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes

  • SybnalSybnal Member Posts: 261
    Originally posted by Slampig
    Originally posted by Disatisfied9

    I'm sorry, but a video game company should not destroy the quality of its product simply to make a larger profit. That does not make it moral, even if the company only exists because of money. Perhaps the company should seek to be in the business of video games to make video games. If you want to be in the business of making money, go play with stocks or invade another country so you get contracts for years to come.

    That really made me laugh. It is totally ABSURD to think that a company, in an effort to make more money, would intentionally put out an inferior product. Pretty dumb to think that, you explain to me how that makes sense in ANY way shape or form.

    Let's forget about the OP for a second, his post is silly anyway. 

     

    Companies make inferior products for profit all the time. You've never heard of the phrase planned obsolescence I take it?  Our whole economy is based on making shit products. We live in a world with the technology to make a fridge that would last a thousand years and run off sunlight.  Yet, for some reason, your fridge will break after 10 years and it runs off a grid powered by coal and nuclear energy. You're right, it is absurd.   But profitable.  You can buy "generic" or no name versions of pretty much anything that are half the price and break twice as fast.  There are whole industries based on making inferior products for profit. 

     

    If you want an MMO example, Cryptic is perfect.  They put out games 1/4 of the size  of their competitors, with half the development time and cost.   They arn't nearly as good as most games that come out, but they are producing more of them for less money.  They are intentionally making an inferior product compared  to their competitors, for profit. 

     

     

     

  • MadimorgaMadimorga Member UncommonPosts: 1,920
    Originally posted by Sybnal
    Originally posted by Slampig
    Originally posted by Disatisfied9

    I'm sorry, but a video game company should not destroy the quality of its product simply to make a larger profit. That does not make it moral, even if the company only exists because of money. Perhaps the company should seek to be in the business of video games to make video games. If you want to be in the business of making money, go play with stocks or invade another country so you get contracts for years to come.

    That really made me laugh. It is totally ABSURD to think that a company, in an effort to make more money, would intentionally put out an inferior product. Pretty dumb to think that, you explain to me how that makes sense in ANY way shape or form.

    Let's forget about the OP for a second, his post is silly anyway. 

     

    Companies make inferior products for profit all the time. You've never heard of the phrase planned obsolescence I take it?  Our whole economy is based on making shit products. We live in a world with the technology to make a fridge that would last a thousand years and run off sunlight.  Yet, for some reason, your fridge will break after 10 years and it runs off a grid powered by coal and nuclear energy. You're right, it is absurd.   But profitable.  You can buy "generic" or no name versions of pretty much anything that are half the price and break twice as fast.  There are whole industries based on making inferior products for profit. 

     

    If you want an MMO example, Cryptic is perfect.  They put out games 1/4 of the size  of their competitors, with half the development time and cost.   They arn't nearly as good as most games that come out, but they are producing more of them for less money.  They are intentionally making an inferior product compared  to their competitors, for profit. 

     

     

     

     

    All true.  Wouldn't be so horrible if it weren't so wasteful and polluting to do things this way.  The quality of video games are the least of our worries as a species right now.  Or should be.

    image

    I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

    ~Albert Einstein

  • CaldicotCaldicot Member UncommonPosts: 455
    Originally posted by Sybnal
    Originally posted by Slampig
    Originally posted by Disatisfied9

    I'm sorry, but a video game company should not destroy the quality of its product simply to make a larger profit. That does not make it moral, even if the company only exists because of money. Perhaps the company should seek to be in the business of video games to make video games. If you want to be in the business of making money, go play with stocks or invade another country so you get contracts for years to come.

    That really made me laugh. It is totally ABSURD to think that a company, in an effort to make more money, would intentionally put out an inferior product. Pretty dumb to think that, you explain to me how that makes sense in ANY way shape or form.

    Let's forget about the OP for a second, his post is silly anyway. 

     

    Companies make inferior products for profit all the time. You've never heard of the phrase planned obsolescence I take it?  Our whole economy is based on making shit products. We live in a world with the technology to make a fridge that would last a thousand years and run off sunlight.  Yet, for some reason, your fridge will break after 10 years and it runs off a grid powered by coal and nuclear energy. You're right, it is absurd.   But profitable.  You can buy "generic" or no name versions of pretty much anything that are half the price and break twice as fast.  There are whole industries based on making inferior products for profit. 

     

    If you want an MMO example, Cryptic is perfect.  They put out games 1/4 of the size  of their competitors, with half the development time and cost.   They arn't nearly as good as most games that come out, but they are producing more of them for less money.  They are intentionally making an inferior product compared  to their competitors, for profit. 

     

     

     

    QFT

    If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan

  • NikopolNikopol Member UncommonPosts: 626
    Originally posted by wordiz
    Originally posted by Nikopol
    Originally posted by wordiz

    Discussing politics on the internet, especially in a gaming forum, is like breakdancing on traintracks.

     

    You mean, it's fun? :P

     

    Go try and breakdance on some traintracks. See how fun it is.

     

    Alright, took your advice and am reporting from traintracks. Breakdancing here is actually quite -

  • DemalisDemalis Member Posts: 134
    Originally posted by Sybnal
    Originally posted by Slampig
    Originally posted by Disatisfied9

    I'm sorry, but a video game company should not destroy the quality of its product simply to make a larger profit. That does not make it moral, even if the company only exists because of money. Perhaps the company should seek to be in the business of video games to make video games. If you want to be in the business of making money, go play with stocks or invade another country so you get contracts for years to come.

    That really made me laugh. It is totally ABSURD to think that a company, in an effort to make more money, would intentionally put out an inferior product. Pretty dumb to think that, you explain to me how that makes sense in ANY way shape or form.

    Let's forget about the OP for a second, his post is silly anyway. 

     

    Companies make inferior products for profit all the time. You've never heard of the phrase planned obsolescence I take it?  Our whole economy is based on making shit products. We live in a world with the technology to make a fridge that would last a thousand years and run off sunlight.  Yet, for some reason, your fridge will break after 10 years and it runs off a grid powered by coal and nuclear energy. You're right, it is absurd.   But profitable.  You can buy "generic" or no name versions of pretty much anything that are half the price and break twice as fast.  There are whole industries based on making inferior products for profit. 

     

    If you want an MMO example, Cryptic is perfect.  They put out games 1/4 of the size  of their competitors, with half the development time and cost.   They arn't nearly as good as most games that come out, but they are producing more of them for less money.  They are intentionally making an inferior product compared  to their competitors, for profit. 

    +1 

    Well I don't think the ops post is silly, if it was yours would never have been written...

  • Talon008Talon008 Member Posts: 2
    Basically what you are saying is that you don't like the games that are being made now because they revolve around the cash shop archetype.  I can understand this to an extent.  The cash shop archetype in itself is a good idea but it just hasn't been put to good use by a lot of companies yet.  If you look at games like LoL who have a cash shop that isn't limited to if you buy this champ or item you're going to have an advantage because they don't force you to use the cash shop it works out really well and they make a lot of money on it because the feeling that you don't HAVE to use it.  The games that are getting put out now I think are evolving into this form of cash shop, but alas it doesn't happen over night so quite a few companies still have the archetype of if you want to be the best you have to spend some coin in our cash shop.  I think when everyone develops cash shops like TERA is doing the gaming industry as a whole will be putting out better games.  This is just my opinion take it at it's face value of leave it these are just the ramblings of a 23-yr old.
  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,908
    Originally posted by WhiteLantern

    I don't even know where to begin with this one. Someone is actually trying to tie a form of entertainment to governmental archetypes.

     

    Fascinating.

     

    To be fair, how a game is funded directly influences what it's design aims are and how it is prepared to treat it's customers.

    The things he touches on are broader philosophies than just being 'governmental archetypes'.

    I think the OP brings up valid points. A lot of bad practice is brought about by having to keep publishers, VC investors, and shareholders paid. The more we can cut those guys out of the loop the better IMO.

  • CalerxesCalerxes Member UncommonPosts: 1,641
    Originally posted by Sybnal
    Originally posted by Slampig
    Originally posted by Disatisfied9

    I'm sorry, but a video game company should not destroy the quality of its product simply to make a larger profit. That does not make it moral, even if the company only exists because of money. Perhaps the company should seek to be in the business of video games to make video games. If you want to be in the business of making money, go play with stocks or invade another country so you get contracts for years to come.

    That really made me laugh. It is totally ABSURD to think that a company, in an effort to make more money, would intentionally put out an inferior product. Pretty dumb to think that, you explain to me how that makes sense in ANY way shape or form.

    Let's forget about the OP for a second, his post is silly anyway. 

     

    Companies make inferior products for profit all the time. You've never heard of the phrase planned obsolescence I take it?  Our whole economy is based on making shit products. We live in a world with the technology to make a fridge that would last a thousand years and run off sunlight.  Yet, for some reason, your fridge will break after 10 years and it runs off a grid powered by coal and nuclear energy. You're right, it is absurd.   But profitable.  You can buy "generic" or no name versions of pretty much anything that are half the price and break twice as fast.  There are whole industries based on making inferior products for profit. 

     

    If you want an MMO example, Cryptic is perfect.  They put out games 1/4 of the size  of their competitors, with half the development time and cost.   They arn't nearly as good as most games that come out, but they are producing more of them for less money.  They are intentionally making an inferior product compared  to their competitors, for profit. 

     

    So how would the world economy work when everybody buys 1 car, 1 fridge, 1 kettle, 1 cooker, 1 toaster? and when I die I basically give that to my kids and then they give it to their kids and so on. It not that simple and where is your proof that we can make these everlasting product of super high quality for sensible prices? If you cannot see the difference in quality from a Toyota to a Ford then you really are not looking properly.

     

     

    Oh! and guys the OP is female.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,908
    Originally posted by Calerxes

     

    So how would the world economy work when everybody buys 1 car, 1 fridge, 1 kettle, 1 cooker, 1 toaster? and when I die I basically give that to my kids and then they give it to their kids and so on. It not that simple and where is your proof that we can make these everlasting product of super high quality for sensible prices? If you cannot see the difference in quality from a Toyota to a Ford then you really are not looking properly.

     

    I sooo badly want to answer this and why it subscribes to a very flawed, though very ingrained, world view, but it would get me warned at least, so I won't.

    Suffice to say I disagree in a very general sense.

  • PanzerbasePanzerbase Member Posts: 423
    We've lost the ability to band together and reject the garbage out there, from politicians to video games our society has been trained that this is the norm. But socialism is only an ideal and every attempt in that realm has ended in tyranny so we take second best, though a water-downed version in this day and age. 
  • AntiquatedAntiquated Member RarePosts: 1,415
    The famous one-post topic grenade.
  • ElderRatElderRat Member CommonPosts: 899
    Originally posted by DOGMA1138
    Originally posted by Disatisfied9
    Why do people defend capitalism like it's some holy grail or altruistic idealogy?

    Obviously MMORPG's are an extremely convincing case of when capitalism fails and ruins things.

    A better system, socialism, provides higher quality products. Kickstarter = socialism.

    I'd honestly like to see more socialism in our games (Making the games devs themselves want to play, funded by crowds of gamers who like the idea), and less capitalism (WoW clones, boring pieces of crap, free 2 play vampirism).

    I also don't understand people's backwards-logic defending companies, simply because they are "in the business to make money, not video games."

    I'm sorry, but a video game company should not destroy the quality of its product simply to make a larger profit. That does not make it moral, even if the company only exists because of money. Perhaps the company should seek to be in the business of video games to make video games. If you want to be in the business of making money, go play with stocks or invade another country so you get contracts for years to come.

    Does no one have integrity or a sense of morality anymore? An idealogy that confirms the need for developers to get payed, but NOT at the expense of awful shitty products? Is the Almighty Dollar worshiped by many here as God, truly important enough to defend companies when they act out of a false idea of self-preservation (that is not preservation, it is simply overindulgent greed) instead of shun these companies for surrendering to greed watering down OUR games?

    After all, we play them. They are our games. We buy things we play. If they were not OUR games, the company's would not have OUR money, and would quickly go out of business. WE are the reason people make games. If not for gamers, no one would play, and not even indies would want to make something for no one.

    How the hell is making you pay before they even have a product to sell is considered socialism?

    Kickstarter is the mother of all capitalist dreams, make your potential costumers to pay you to make the product while you and the investors get all the profit.

    The fact that this may become a common practice even for big studios should be a concern to everyone, would you accept a drug company collecting payment from sick people to develop a drug, test it on them, and then sell it to them at market value?

     

    I have been watching this with great interest.  A group of people tell us that they have a great idea, no code has been written though, and they want us to pay for their company to get started and then they will write the code, and produce the game. I am not sure how long it takes to make  a good game and launch it, but I figure 5 years is a good ballpark.  So, you pay for a game and then have to wait 5 years to see the finished product?  Well I hope that works for you. And no, as someone else said that is not socialism, it is either capitalism or a very good scam. We will see which in 5 years. (just my opinion).

     

    Currently bored with MMO's.

  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Member UncommonPosts: 1,984
    I'd prefer a monarchy with me in charge.  You can call me Fairy King.


  • BombzawayBombzaway Member UncommonPosts: 78

    Your are anonymous

    http://www.furians.it/firme/signature.php

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910

    Originally posted by Disatisfied9
    Why do people defend capitalism like it's some holy grail or altruistic idealogy?Obviously MMORPG's are an extremely convincing case of when capitalism fails and ruins things.

    A better system, socialism, provides higher quality products. Kickstarter = socialism.

    I'd honestly like to see more socialism in our games (Making the games devs themselves want to play, funded by crowds of gamers who like the idea), and less capitalism (WoW clones, boring pieces of crap, free 2 play vampirism).

    I also don't understand people's backwards-logic defending companies, simply because they are "in the business to make money, not video games."

    I'm sorry, but a video game company should not destroy the quality of its product simply to make a larger profit. That does not make it moral, even if the company only exists because of money. Perhaps the company should seek to be in the business of video games to make video games. If you want to be in the business of making money, go play with stocks or invade another country so you get contracts for years to come.

    Does no one have integrity or a sense of morality anymore? An idealogy that confirms the need for developers to get payed, but NOT at the expense of awful shitty products? Is the Almighty Dollar worshiped by many here as God, truly important enough to defend companies when they act out of a false idea of self-preservation (that is not preservation, it is simply overindulgent greed) instead of shun these companies for surrendering to greed watering down OUR games?

    After all, we play them. They are our games. We buy things we play. If they were not OUR games, the company's would not have OUR money, and would quickly go out of business. WE are the reason people make games. If not for gamers, no one would play, and not even indies would want to make something for no one.


    Kickstarter does not equal socialism. Kickstarter is just a more efficient capitalist system than the standard one where products are made first, then marketed. Dur.

    Sorry you don't like the products that exist, that just means you're not a member of the majority of people. In a socialist system, you would be just as marginalized. Probably more so, since the needs of the many are what matters, not the needs of small groups or individuals.

    Finally, this thread is stupid. There are people starving to death, being raped and killed, having their homes taken by corporations, and more actual injustice than anyone can possibly keep track of, every day. If you want to get into morals, let's get into a discussion of people who have such a sense of self entitlement they think video game developers not making the games they like is a moral issue.

    ** ** **

    Those injustices are just in the U.S. That doesn't even get into things that happen all over the world.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • sado2020sado2020 Member Posts: 112

    My mom used to tell me some of the stuff she used to see growing up in the phillipines from around the 50's to the 80's when she left with my dad.  Then my dad used talk about what he saw while in Nam and that stuff only compared to what some missionary friends used tell me about..

     

    All I know is Im pretty grateful all I have are first world problems like morality in my MMO's d:

    Playing: TSW, D&D NW, Defiance (more the tv show than game >.> ) LotRO, DCUO

    image
  • DemalisDemalis Member Posts: 134

    Kickstarter does not equal socialism. Kickstarter is just a more efficient capitalist system than the standard one where products are made first, then marketed. Dur.

    Sorry you don't like the products that exist, that just means you're not a member of the majority of people. In a socialist system, you would be just as marginalized. Probably more so, since the needs of the many are what matters, not the needs of small groups or individuals.

    Finally, this thread is stupid. There are people starving to death, being raped and killed, having their homes taken by corporations, and more actual injustice than anyone can possibly keep track of, every day. If you want to get into morals, let's get into a discussion of people who have such a sense of self entitlement they think video game developers not making the games they like is a moral issue.

    ** ** **

    Those injustices are just in the U.S. That doesn't even get into things that happen all over the world.

     

    So ever since Alanis Morissette did that song my understanding of the word irony, has been a little off. Well you talk of the needs of the many is what matters, a good point I might add. Does capitalism conform to this ideal? Wealth disparity??

    Indeed we are talking about video game economics, and how games are being built more so for economic advance with little care for the end all product.  The product that is consumed by the masses. And just to add I believe the f2p/b2p models are just a ruse, equating to more money for the few and less quality for the many.

    There is a rabbit hole here, best not to go down there, I agree. But what is the point of a forum if we can't talk about  ideals and how they affect our games, jmo.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,001
    Originally posted by Disatisfied9
    Why do people defend capitalism like it's some holy grail or altruistic idealogy?

     

    A better system, socialism, provides higher quality products. Kickstarter = socialism.

     

    I also don't understand people's backwards-logic defending companies, simply because they are "in the business to make money, not video games."

    You sound  bit idealistic. I suppose that's good but what's never good is clouding the real issues. Too often people attach themselves to various movements, religions, political ideals but never really want to think outside those ideals.

    socialism, capitalism, these things aren't inherently bad. It's what people do with them that's bad.

    Right up front, I believe in working for my money, paying my bills, saving and paying for my entertainment. I love free but often give to "free" performances because I know the people who made them worked their asses off and deserve to be compensated. I'm willing to pay for my enjoyment because those who have given me good services, products, entertainment will be inclined to do it again. And if it's a large company the they deserve my money for doing the same. so...

    Companies aren't bad. there are just bad companies.

    Capitalism isn't bad but people make it bad.

    The guy who opens his own business and works hard and services his community? That's capitalism.

    The large corporation that is able to supply jobs in an area where jobs are desperately needed? That's capitalism.

    Bringing food and medicine to those in need regardless of whether they can pay for it? Socialism. Building houses for those who can never have a house? Socialism.

    Now, go back and look at all the bad that is done in the name of socialism and capitalism.

     

    People "poo poo" large companies but large companies are responsible for a great many amazing things that a small company could never do. and "news flash" large companies started as small companies that wanted to do better, that wanted to succeed.

    All the bad you are talking about comes from bad people. And unfortunately they are always going to be around.

    I like the whole kickstarter idea. Love it in fact. But that's not necessarily going to insure greatness. Small companies can only do "so much" and in their realizing this they will be successful. But there are a lot of things you enjoy, you love that required far greater funds and coordination that only a large company can do.

    It's just the crappy people who crap it who are the problem.

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  • CalerxesCalerxes Member UncommonPosts: 1,641
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Calerxes

     

    So how would the world economy work when everybody buys 1 car, 1 fridge, 1 kettle, 1 cooker, 1 toaster? and when I die I basically give that to my kids and then they give it to their kids and so on. It not that simple and where is your proof that we can make these everlasting product of super high quality for sensible prices? If you cannot see the difference in quality from a Toyota to a Ford then you really are not looking properly.

     

    I sooo badly want to answer this and why it subscribes to a very flawed, though very ingrained, world view, but it would get me warned at least, so I won't.

    Suffice to say I disagree in a very general sense.

     

    Its a question and its not rhetorical and if your answer cannot be put in a civil way then its not really a valid answer is it?

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,908
    Originally posted by Calerxes
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Calerxes 

     

    So how would the world economy work when everybody buys 1 car, 1 fridge, 1 kettle, 1 cooker, 1 toaster? and when I die I basically give that to my kids and then they give it to their kids and so on. It not that simple and where is your proof that we can make these everlasting product of super high quality for sensible prices? If you cannot see the difference in quality from a Toyota to a Ford then you really are not looking properly.

     

    I sooo badly want to answer this and why it subscribes to a very flawed, though very ingrained, world view, but it would get me warned at least, so I won't.

    Suffice to say I disagree in a very general sense.

     

    Its a question and its not rhetorical and if your answer cannot be put in a civil way then its not really a valid answer is it?

     

    You miss the point in what I am saying... I can indeed be very civil, but I have been temp banned from this site before for discussing ethics and politics in a very civil manner.

    Answering you would cross both those lines. It's a shame, but there ya go.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910

    Originally posted by Demalis
    Kickstarter does not equal socialism. Kickstarter is just a more efficient capitalist system than the standard one where products are made first, then marketed. Dur. Sorry you don't like the products that exist, that just means you're not a member of the majority of people. In a socialist system, you would be just as marginalized. Probably more so, since the needs of the many are what matters, not the needs of small groups or individuals. Finally, this thread is stupid. There are people starving to death, being raped and killed, having their homes taken by corporations, and more actual injustice than anyone can possibly keep track of, every day. If you want to get into morals, let's get into a discussion of people who have such a sense of self entitlement they think video game developers not making the games they like is a moral issue. ** ** ** Those injustices are just in the U.S. That doesn't even get into things that happen all over the world.  
    So ever since Alanis Morissette did that song my understanding of the word irony, has been a little off. Well you talk of the needs of the many is what matters, a good point I might add. Does capitalism conform to this ideal? Wealth disparity??

    Indeed we are talking about video game economics, and how games are being built more so for economic advance with little care for the end all product.  The product that is consumed by the masses. And just to add I believe the f2p/b2p models are just a ruse, equating to more money for the few and less quality for the many.

    There is a rabbit hole here, best not to go down there, I agree. But what is the point of a forum if we can't talk about  ideals and how they affect our games, jmo.



    There is certainly room for discussing morals. Things like laying people off to make more money, lying to investors about income and things like that are worthy of discussion about morals. The types of games being made though? That is not a moral issue.

    Getting indignant about the types of games being made and equating that with a moral failing is trite. The best description of the OP that I can think of is the meme "First World Problems". Invoking words like "socialism", "capitalism" and "morals" is just the icing on the cake of self entitlement.

    The OP can be summed up as, "The games I like aren't being made, so obviously the entire economic system used in the country I live in is broken and a system that has been proven to fail when it's run by humans is the only possible solution." It's the "Aliens" meme guy, but with economic systems and one additional layer of having an irrational solution instead of just a problem.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • DemalisDemalis Member Posts: 134
    Originally posted by Calerxes
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Calerxes

     

    So how would the world economy work when everybody buys 1 car, 1 fridge, 1 kettle, 1 cooker, 1 toaster? and when I die I basically give that to my kids and then they give it to their kids and so on. It not that simple and where is your proof that we can make these everlasting product of super high quality for sensible prices? If you cannot see the difference in quality from a Toyota to a Ford then you really are not looking properly.

     

    I sooo badly want to answer this and why it subscribes to a very flawed, though very ingrained, world view, but it would get me warned at least, so I won't.

    Suffice to say I disagree in a very general sense.

     

    Its a question and its not rhetorical and if your answer cannot be put in a civil way then its not really a valid answer is it?

    Well I can not answer this question, wish I could.  But I will ask another question. In an economic system where 5% have 95% of the wealth based on design of that system. Additionally when that 5% is threatened the other 95% of the population has to pay more to fix the imbalance, I won't go into much detail here because it is dark. Is that a working economy?

    Since this is pretty off topic I will try to bring it back... actually I won't. Are you not the guy that made the comment that the op was a female, yes your skills in logical arguments are unsurpassed. And your closing statements truly illustrate this.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member UncommonPosts: 4,818

    the op seems a bit confused on what socialism really is. I didn't write this but it does a better job of doing it than I could

     

    An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

    The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan".. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

    After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

    The second test average was a D! No one was happy.
    When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

    As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

    To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.

This discussion has been closed.