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Slot Machines in Middle Earth? A new low in MMORPGs...

trancejeremytrancejeremy St. Louis, MOPosts: 1,222Member

Now when you log in, you are presented with "free" hobbit presents, which are essentially a spin on a slot machine (or perhaps more accurately, a Wheel of Fortune).

 

Want more spins? Pony up money via purchasing Mithril Coins.

 

I thought gambling boxes were bad, but this, this is a new low. You can't escape them. And oh, you say, just use willpower to avoid them. Well, yeah, many people can. But let's not pretend that there isn't a brain chemistry reason that gambling is exciting and that many aren't able to cope with it well.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine_dysregulation_syndrome

R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there

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Comments

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    [mod edit]. Gambling is going to be in every video game soon enough. Gambling will provide nothing for the players but it will rob them.
  • InsaneDalekInsaneDalek Detroit, MIPosts: 119Member

    I still don't understand how companies which do things like this can get around the rules & regulations regarding gambling. Perhaps it's because you technically can't 'lose', since no matter what you receive something, even if the quality and / or usefulness of what you receive is low. That's about the only way I can think of.

     

    It's a sad day indeed when a family is too afraid of reprisals to publicly thank somebody for saving their lives.

  • flizzerflizzer Manchester, NHPosts: 1,550Member Uncommon
    I logged in to LOTRO other day after a long hiatus and saw this also.  It is starting to feel like a carnival now, lol.  Oh, what has happened to you Middle Earth!   Since I am a lifer I figured I would at least check out the story part I missed, which is one of the best features of LOTRO, but I just don't know if I even care to anymore.  The combat just puts me to sleep and now these carnival games......Maybe Bilbo's Tropicana is next, who knows.
  • Slappy1Slappy1 columbus, OHPosts: 458Member

    It's pretty much the same as the gambling boxes imo.You don't need to spend anything.

    As a vip I logged in on my 36 hunter/archer and received a decent power/heal potion,but the real winner was my gold box,which was lvl 30 med armor blue quality head piece.It blew away the green lvl that I had.

    It's no worse than the gambling boxes in other games.

    Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!

    Arya Stark

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,924Member Uncommon
    The mechanic of gambling is a way MMo creators found to generate extra money without having to add lots of cash shop goods. Its pretty much making players take a risk, able to drain those with 'addiction' of their cash quickly more then just buying say a $30 mount would. Its quite a devious thing to do, something that casinos do all the time and MMos with cash shops seem to cash in on since eastern games seemed to try it and make a good cash flow from it.
  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,767Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by InsaneDalek

    I still don't understand how companies which do things like this can get around the rules & regulations regarding gambling. Perhaps it's because you technically can't 'lose', since no matter what you receive something, even if the quality and / or usefulness of what you receive is low. That's about the only way I can think of.

     

    I am not a lawyer but as I understand it as long as the prizes are greater in "value" than the cost of the spin it's not considered gambling which is easy to do when you can set the value of the items.  That's why you always get something out of those boxes which will be valued at least the cost of the spin.

    Oh well guess I'll remove LOTR and soon DDO from my list of good F2P cash shops.  That pretty much leaves TSW.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,666Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by InsaneDalek

    I still don't understand how companies which do things like this can get around the rules & regulations regarding gambling. Perhaps it's because you technically can't 'lose', since no matter what you receive something, even if the quality and / or usefulness of what you receive is low. That's about the only way I can think of.

    There is no monetary value to the items you gain. A game of chance with no monetary value to the prize is not considered gambling as far as most laws are concerned. To be clear, I'm not saying it's right or wrong to have it in the game, and I'm not saying it's good or bad to have it in the game. I'm just explaining to you why it isn't considered gambling and thus not illegal to have. 

     

     

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • theAsnatheAsna AsnatownPosts: 321Member

     

    Turbine added this gambling even to LotRO's sibling DDO. What is most irritating is that the company spends dev time to add such features instead of fixing bugs and delivering new content.

     

    I have played 30 year old single player CRPGs that had gambling integrated. You could play black jack and other mini-games. But you would only bet in-game money. That was a nice little addition. Similar to Pazaak in Kotor.

     

     But those new gambling elements for real money are best avoided. Don't use those feature and show the company that they delivered something that people don't use. I hope that not too many players are gullible enough to gamble.

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Edmonds, WAPosts: 2,356Member Uncommon

    This feature has been in a lot of korean F2P games. In maplestory it is called Gatchapon, they also have it in Runescape I can't remember the name but you spin a big wheel and a gnome flies into it but at least in runescape you get free spins all the time and quests give you it as rewards. In other games it's usually a box that can randomly give you an item, they have it in Dota 2, in team fortress 2, in atlantica online, plenty of things have it. I can't see why it's such a big issue when from what I've heard LOTRO already sells power in their shop.

    Honestly in my eyes if people really want to spend money to attempt to get something good from virtual gambling then more power to them. The companies will probably make a lot of money off of it.

  • LithuanianLithuanian vilniusPosts: 205Member Uncommon

    It is a wrong move by Turbine and many players in their forums (me included) are asking one of two things:

    1) Have an option to sign off "wheel of fortune" or

    2) make it less lore-breaking (like optional visiting some NPC in Bree).

    However, I do not agree with radical approach like "Lotro is off my list of mmorpgs" due to this mistake. Everyone can be mistaken, be it a person or a company. We just have to look if Turbine makes conclusions.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,666Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lithuanian

    It is a wrong move by Turbine and many players in their forums (me included) are asking one of two things:

    1) Have an option to sign off "wheel of fortune" or

    2) make it less lore-breaking (like optional visiting some NPC in Bree).

    However, I do not agree with radical approach like "Lotro is off my list of mmorpgs" due to this mistake. Everyone can be mistaken, be it a person or a company. We just have to look if Turbine makes conclusions.

    Exactly. It's all to common for gamers to ragequit and then complain about what MMOs offer. Turbine has in the past changed/removed content they put out when players gave their feedback. There's no reason to think they won't work with the community again this time.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,332Member Uncommon
    If they got rid of gambling in games they would be boring.  You wouldn't have loot tables.  Mobs would drop the same item(s) everytime.
  • chakalakachakalaka Missoula, MTPosts: 287Member Uncommon
    Developers need to remember that it is us the gamers that play their game for the story, mechanics whether it be active or turn based, tab-targeting or not, the progression of the game and exploration. Just make a real game with a real world that we can fall in love with inside a community of like-minded people. You will win our hearts, keep out all of this gambling and p2w nonsense! =)
  • ConjuremanConjureman Des Moines, IAPosts: 5Member

    I gave up on this game long ago. My list of grievances is endless so I will sum it up as this:

    1) Fugly character models.

    2) Quest Storyline=Stryder and the Hobbits are in danger!  We need you to darn their socks so they can continue saving the world!

    3) Character models are fugly.

    4) I found the game amazingly easy mode.  Like I could play it by mashing keys with my face and still easily win fights.

    5) The character models, they are fugly.

    I loved the hobbit houses,though. 

  • SulaaSulaa nPosts: 1,151Member Common
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by InsaneDalek

    I still don't understand how companies which do things like this can get around the rules & regulations regarding gambling. Perhaps it's because you technically can't 'lose', since no matter what you receive something, even if the quality and / or usefulness of what you receive is low. That's about the only way I can think of.

    There is no monetary value to the items you gain. A game of chance with no monetary value to the prize is not considered gambling as far as most laws are concerned. To be clear, I'm not saying it's right or wrong to have it in the game, and I'm not saying it's good or bad to have it in the game. I'm just explaining to you why it isn't considered gambling and thus not illegal to have. 


    Yet. There were already rulings in few countries concerning virtual items.  Some of court rulings were about one person stealing other person virtual items in game (by using real world pressure or deception) and line of defense was that those items were not of real value, yet courts rejected that claims and ruled that they do have value and so cort rulings said it was indeed a steal thus indirectly ruling that virtual items do have value.   Court cases in UK, Netherlands and Poland as far as I remember.

    World is changing and monetary value will be attached to virtual items sooner or later by the law. Also because revenue from selling virtual items with 'no monetary value' is producing bigger and bigger monetary value after all :)

     

    Originally posted by chakalaka
    Developers need to remember that it is us the gamers that play their game for the story, mechanics whether it be active or turn based, tab-targeting or not, the progression of the game and exploration. Just make a real game with a real world that we can fall in love with inside a community of like-minded people. You will win our hearts, keep out all of this gambling and p2w nonsense! =)

    Game companies across whole genre are systematically introducing gambling, p2w, advantage and all possible microtransactions yet players are still playing and paying.   Players including you - make alot of threats.  Game companies said "check!" and at least until now you're bluffing.   Empty threats.

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by Sulaa
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by InsaneDalek

    I still don't understand how companies which do things like this can get around the rules & regulations regarding gambling. Perhaps it's because you technically can't 'lose', since no matter what you receive something, even if the quality and / or usefulness of what you receive is low. That's about the only way I can think of.

    There is no monetary value to the items you gain. A game of chance with no monetary value to the prize is not considered gambling as far as most laws are concerned. To be clear, I'm not saying it's right or wrong to have it in the game, and I'm not saying it's good or bad to have it in the game. I'm just explaining to you why it isn't considered gambling and thus not illegal to have. 


    Yet. There were already rulings in few countries concerning virtual items.  Some of court rulings were about one person stealing other person virtual items in game (by using real world pressure or deception) and line of defense was that those items were not of real value, yet courts rejected that claims and ruled that they do have value and so cort rulings said it was indeed a steal thus indirectly ruling that virtual items do have value.   Court cases in UK, Netherlands and Poland as far as I remember.

    World is changing and monetary value will be attached to virtual items sooner or later by the law. Also because revenue from selling virtual items with 'no monetary value' is producing bigger and bigger monetary value after all :)

     

    Originally posted by chakalaka
    Developers need to remember that it is us the gamers that play their game for the story, mechanics whether it be active or turn based, tab-targeting or not, the progression of the game and exploration. Just make a real game with a real world that we can fall in love with inside a community of like-minded people. You will win our hearts, keep out all of this gambling and p2w nonsense! =)

    Game companies across whole genre are systematically introducing gambling, p2w, advantage and all possible microtransactions yet players are still playing and paying.   Players including you - make alot of threats.  Game companies said "check!" and at least until now you're bluffing.   Empty threats.

    Games are going to be even more terrible.

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member

    This is the ultimate fate of F2P games.  Everyone thinks they'll just pay their bills with cosmetic stuff and call it a day, but this is the real truth of it.

    You make me like charity

  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,027Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by asmkm22

    This is the ultimate fate of F2P games.  Everyone thinks they'll just pay their bills with cosmetic stuff and call it a day, but this is the real truth of it.

     

    We can't handle the truth.

  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,868Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by thinktank001
    Originally posted by asmkm22

    This is the ultimate fate of F2P games.  Everyone thinks they'll just pay their bills with cosmetic stuff and call it a day, but this is the real truth of it.

     

    We can't handle the truth.

    We can, they can't. I prem my accounts every time I play but I'm not blind. The Premium elements of LotRO are designed for leveling, not level capped and everyone in LotRO is level capped. There is no reason to stay premium.

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,548Member Uncommon

    The worst aspect of them is that they are not even integrated in the game. You don't talk to a NPC or interact with something in game, you just click a notification icon and there comes a slot machine like UI popping out of no where, and then the "rewards" pop in your inventory also out of the blues. They didn't even make the effort to hide their money grabber a bit, try to make it part of the game. They just added a crappy "facebook quality" slot machine game.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon

    MMOs / MMORPGs are created with only one purpose...to generate profit.

    Maybe it is one of the reasons why I prefer P2P games. You subscribe, the subs is automatically charged from your account every month and the whole business aspect of the game is more or less subtle. I also do not mind WoW's cash shop which is completely separated from the game.

    In F2P games, the cash shop is omnipresent. I know it sounds like cliche, but it breaks immersion. Whether it is a huge button "Buy coins" or slot machines like you mention in the OP does not matter. It simply does not belong here.

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,548Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by coretex666

    MMOs / MMORPGs are created with only one purpose...to generate profit.

    Maybe it is one of the reasons why I prefer P2P games. You subscribe, the subs is automatically charged from your account every month and the whole business aspect of the game is more or less subtle. I also do not mind WoW's cash shop which is completely separated from the game.

    In F2P games, the cash shop is omnipresent. I know it sounds like cliche, but it breaks immersion. Whether it is a huge button "Buy coins" or slot machines like you mention in the OP does not matter. It simply does not belong here.

    The LOTRO cash shop is a quite bad one indeed, with not only that optional gambling aspect but also many "pay to win" elements. Another pretty nasty one is the Neverwinter one.

    GW2 got the balance right I think. You don't need to use the shop at all if you don't want to, I have guildies who never bought a cent past the initial box price and who play just fine converting in game gold to gems, and people like me have to option to buy some to support a game they enjoy.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by InsaneDalek

    I still don't understand how companies which do things like this can get around the rules & regulations regarding gambling. Perhaps it's because you technically can't 'lose', since no matter what you receive something, even if the quality and / or usefulness of what you receive is low. That's about the only way I can think of.

    There is no monetary value to the items you gain. A game of chance with no monetary value to the prize is not considered gambling as far as most laws are concerned. To be clear, I'm not saying it's right or wrong to have it in the game, and I'm not saying it's good or bad to have it in the game. I'm just explaining to you why it isn't considered gambling and thus not illegal to have. 

    Old Ladies Weekly Bingo Game, a fine American tradition.

    There aren't many states left that still stand firmly against gambling. They just tax, regulate, and control it. The Bread and Circuses that Americans seem to want, it can't really be so surprising or morally outrageous in video games. The Lottery Line forms at my local gas station every Weds and Sat.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by coretex666

    MMOs / MMORPGs are created with only one purpose...to generate profit.

    Maybe it is one of the reasons why I prefer P2P games. You subscribe, the subs is automatically charged from your account every month and the whole business aspect of the game is more or less subtle. I also do not mind WoW's cash shop which is completely separated from the game.

    In F2P games, the cash shop is omnipresent. I know it sounds like cliche, but it breaks immersion. Whether it is a huge button "Buy coins" or slot machines like you mention in the OP does not matter. It simply does not belong here.

    The LOTRO cash shop is a quite bad one indeed, with not only that optional gambling aspect but also many "pay to win" elements. Another pretty nasty one is the Neverwinter one.

    GW2 got the balance right I think. You don't need to use the shop at all if you don't want to, I have guildies who never bought a cent past the initial box price and who play just fine converting in game gold to gems, and people like me have to option to buy some to support a game they enjoy.

    It was probably overgeneralization on my side. I realize there are F2P games whose cash shops are ok.

    I would change the wording to "In most F2P games, the cash shop...."

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Uncommon
    Rift App has "scratch off" tickets.
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