Yea but F2P cash shops are going to do 1 thing honestly drive MMO players away. Why? Because the whole premise is based on people not being able to control their spending. It will work for a little while however not long term. Why? Simple MMO players average age is 37 years old. With that said if more and more of the average MMO players learn this is what is happening to the genera they will just quit playing. They will not be impluse buyers like the younger crowd because they have kids and a family to support. Spending more than $15 to $50 a month on a game will piss people off and you already see backlash from mmo gamers against some of these games cash shops. As much as people think it will stick it will not. In a few years F2P will just be another model.
Older players not being impulse buyers means that they get to enjoy the game without having to spend $15/month. That allows them to feed their family a little easier in my opinion.
No thats where you are wrong. The older players are getting tired of F2P games because what problem that they are causing. You can be all for F2P and think it will stick however it will not. I will give you an example why myself and my group of friends chosen not to play a F2P game that has no subscription. Neverwinter is doing what ever it can to get you to buy ID scrolls and other things in game, if you do not spend several hours in game getting AD to buy these things off the Auction house then you need to spend real money on it. What did it make my friends do, uninstall and I am the 2nd youngest of a crew of 12. All are 35 years old or older and want nothing to do with F2P games that do not have a subscription. Why because its worse for the customer as much as people THINK it is. Its not. They would rather play a game like SWTOR pay $15 a month and not have to buy stuff like Raid unlocks, or FP unlocks. Its very simple this will not last long and will shrink the industry. There is no way 48+ games will be supported on impulse buying in a cashshop. Only subscriptions will sustain the required hardware and man power behind these games.
Yea but F2P cash shops are going to do 1 thing honestly drive MMO players away. Why? Because the whole premise is based on people not being able to control their spending. It will work for a little while however not long term. Why? Simple MMO players average age is 37 years old. With that said if more and more of the average MMO players learn this is what is happening to the genera they will just quit playing. They will not be impluse buyers like the younger crowd because they have kids and a family to support. Spending more than $15 to $50 a month on a game will piss people off and you already see backlash from mmo gamers against some of these games cash shops. As much as people think it will stick it will not. In a few years F2P will just be another model.
Older players not being impulse buyers means that they get to enjoy the game without having to spend $15/month. That allows them to feed their family a little easier in my opinion.
No thats where you are wrong. The older players are getting tired of F2P games because what problem that they are causing. You can be all for F2P and think it will stick however it will not. I will give you an example why myself and my group of friends chosen not to play a F2P game that has no subscription. Neverwinter is doing what ever it can to get you to buy ID scrolls and other things in game, if you do not spend several hours in game getting AD to buy these things off the Auction house then you need to spend real money on it. What did it make my friends do, uninstall and I am the 2nd youngest of a crew of 12. All are 35 years old or older and want nothing to do with F2P games that do not have a subscription. Why because its worse for the customer as much as people THINK it is. Its not. They would rather play a game like SWTOR pay $15 a month and not have to buy stuff like Raid unlocks, or FP unlocks. Its very simple this will not last long and will shrink the industry. There is no way 48+ games will be supported on impulse buying in a cashshop. Only subscriptions will sustain the required hardware and man power behind these games.
Oh, right. You speak for all older players. I think it's nice that there is a less expensive option for those under the pinch.
P2P is only having a problem because games are coping an pasting WoW designs and are not worth $15 a month. Add to that there are what 48+ MMOs so its a competition of crap vs crap so who is going to spend their money when nothing is worth it right now? If we continue down this path what will happen is the MMO industry will shrink, fewer publishers will be willing to take a risk there for fewer MMOS will be out again. That will bring back the P2P system because all of these people that are no MMO players will be gone thank god.
I don't disagree, but I don't think it is that simple.
If a company concluded that they could net more profit from f2p as opposed to a sub, then they will go that route no matter the design.
If they can determine players will pay 15 dollars a month regularly under a sub plan, but those same players will average greater than 15 dollars a month on a f2p model, guess what they would choose, wow-clone or not?
Look at a 5 month comparison:
15 + 15 + 15 + 15 + 15 = 75$
0 + 15 (I need another char slot) + 5 + 20 (man i need that mount) + 50 (xmas time! thx for the gift certificates) = 90$
Voila! F2P model accepted, wow clone or not.
And thats what people don't understand: F2p is worse for the consumer.
See the assumption here is that costs remain the same forever, games companies are embracing the f2p model as you rightly state to make more money but that is because the underlying costs have risen so they HAVE to make more money to stay in business. When your field is being held to ransom by a virtual monopoly that doesn't have to raise its prices you have to find other ways to make money. In the p2p world that was in game cash shops first and then Freemium, B2P + Cash shop and F2P. Even Activision/Blizzard the virtual monopoly is starting to feel the pinch with its decline.
Anyone thinking that standard P2P is coming back I'll buy your iceskates when hell freezes over.
Dude F2P will not sustain this industry long as much as you think so. The industry will add another dozen games in the next year. The population is too spread out and until games shut down the F2P games will keep finding ways to make a few extra dollars. In the end games will fold and P2P will be back. F2P and handouts old can last so long.
Dude F2P will not sustain this industry long as much as you think so. The industry will add another dozen games in the next year. The population is too spread out and until games shut down the F2P games will keep finding ways to make a few extra dollars. In the end games will fold and P2P will be back. F2P and handouts old can last so long.
In my opinion, it's more likely that the older P2P games will start to fold and people will move from them to the newer F2P games. Look at what Kotick was saying earlier.
f2p will be cordorouy cardigans with leather elbow patches in 5 years time
I love when people complain (Never Winter Nights MMO in my example) of sales bots spamming general chat in a free game. Then I'll say because it's not sub - they will reply, WOW was Sub and had gold sellers - but then I point out ALL games have gold sellers - make a game free to login to, however - and it's a fricken poop storm.
P2P is only having a problem because games are coping an pasting WoW designs and are not worth $15 a month. Add to that there are what 48+ MMOs so its a competition of crap vs crap so who is going to spend their money when nothing is worth it right now? If we continue down this path what will happen is the MMO industry will shrink, fewer publishers will be willing to take a risk there for fewer MMOS will be out again. That will bring back the P2P system because all of these people that are no MMO players will be gone thank god.
I don't disagree, but I don't think it is that simple.
If a company concluded that they could net more profit from f2p as opposed to a sub, then they will go that route no matter the design.
If they can determine players will pay 15 dollars a month regularly under a sub plan, but those same players will average greater than 15 dollars a month on a f2p model, guess what they would choose, wow-clone or not?
Look at a 5 month comparison:
15 + 15 + 15 + 15 + 15 = 75$
0 + 15 (I need another char slot) + 5 + 20 (man i need that mount) + 50 (xmas time! thx for the gift certificates) = 90$
Voila! F2P model accepted, wow clone or not.
Yea but F2P cash shops are going to do 1 thing honestly drive MMO players away. Why? Because the whole premise is based on people not being able to control their spending. It will work for a little while however not long term. Why? Simple MMO players average age is 37 years old. With that said if more and more of the average MMO players learn this is what is happening to the genera they will just quit playing. They will not be impluse buyers like the younger crowd because they have kids and a family to support. Spending more than $15 to $50 a month on a game will piss people off and you already see backlash from mmo gamers against some of these games cash shops. As much as people think it will stick it will not. In a few years F2P will just be another model.
No, f2p is based around removing the entry barrier to playing an MMO which in the p2p world brought about inevitable decline. When you logged into an older p2p game the starter areas were deserted, this is not the case in f2p games as there is no barrier to trying out the game. But with the f2p model you can earn more money from those who are willing to pay it. Also your free players are just as needed as these are the ones who generate the income that rich players can then sell cash shop items to them for ingame money. Big MMO dev's haven't cottoned on to this where many established f2p companies have. Free players monetise the rich players so you all play harmoniously in one big group hug of an MMO. Its actually doing the exact opposite of what you are saying.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
People thought I was crazy back in January when I said Rift was going F2P. I left because the population was dropping like a rock. I pointed out that fact that the game is the same grind for end game as WoW, there was nothing that sets it apart from WoW to make it worth the money that was put into it. Here we are 5 months later knowing Rifts going F2P to get any extra money out of the game as possible because they cannot stay in business.
I am also working in the IT industry to become a Executive level manager that understands the balance between business needs and the cost of doing business with is IT. What people don't understand is often businesses bubble up just like the economy with one marketing scheme and then goes back to a sustainable marketing scheme. Than another new marketing scheme comes up and the bubble blows up and then goes back to a sustainable marketing scheme. Its the way of most businesses. Look at how banking and the housing industry changed in the early 2000's now they are back to WHAT WORKS with fewer companies to compete against.
It's not that hard to see nor understand. It is what it is and time will shift MMOs back to P2P with a few F2P hybrids and maybe a B2P there, with Tablet games being B2P or F2P cash shops. A few web based games will be F2P with cash shops. Its the business cycle, its something that has not hit the MMO industry until now and you will start seeing the industry bubble up and pop then the cycle will start over again.
P2P is only having a problem because games are coping an pasting WoW designs and are not worth $15 a month. Add to that there are what 48+ MMOs so its a competition of crap vs crap so who is going to spend their money when nothing is worth it right now? If we continue down this path what will happen is the MMO industry will shrink, fewer publishers will be willing to take a risk there for fewer MMOS will be out again. That will bring back the P2P system because all of these people that are no MMO players will be gone thank god.
I don't disagree, but I don't think it is that simple.
If a company concluded that they could net more profit from f2p as opposed to a sub, then they will go that route no matter the design.
If they can determine players will pay 15 dollars a month regularly under a sub plan, but those same players will average greater than 15 dollars a month on a f2p model, guess what they would choose, wow-clone or not?
Look at a 5 month comparison:
15 + 15 + 15 + 15 + 15 = 75$
0 + 15 (I need another char slot) + 5 + 20 (man i need that mount) + 50 (xmas time! thx for the gift certificates) = 90$
Voila! F2P model accepted, wow clone or not.
Yea but F2P cash shops are going to do 1 thing honestly drive MMO players away. Why? Because the whole premise is based on people not being able to control their spending. It will work for a little while however not long term. Why? Simple MMO players average age is 37 years old. With that said if more and more of the average MMO players learn this is what is happening to the genera they will just quit playing. They will not be impluse buyers like the younger crowd because they have kids and a family to support. Spending more than $15 to $50 a month on a game will piss people off and you already see backlash from mmo gamers against some of these games cash shops. As much as people think it will stick it will not. In a few years F2P will just be another model.
No, f2p is based around removing the entry barrier to playing an MMO which in the p2p world brought about inevitable decline. When you logged into an older p2p game the starter areas were deserted, this is not the case in f2p games as there is no barrier to trying out the game. But with the f2p model you can earn more money from those who are willing to pay it. Also your free players are just as needed as these are the ones who generate the income that rich players can then sell cash shop items to them for ingame money. Big MMO dev's haven't cottoned on to this where many established f2p companies have. Free players monetise the rich players so you all play harmoniously in one big group hug of an MMO. Its actually doing the exact opposite of what you are saying.
Go study business. F2P will not sustain the MMO industry period.
f2p will be cordorouy cardigans with leather elbow patches in 5 years time
I love when people complain (Never Winter Nights MMO in my example) of sales bots spamming general chat in a free game. Then I'll say because it's not sub - they will reply, WOW was Sub and had gold sellers - but then I point out ALL games have gold sellers - make a game free to login to, however - and it's a fricken poop storm.
No gold sellers in Jade Dynasty, PWI, BOI, WOI all Perfect World f2p games, so your point is?
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
P2P is only having a problem because games are coping an pasting WoW designs and are not worth $15 a month. Add to that there are what 48+ MMOs so its a competition of crap vs crap so who is going to spend their money when nothing is worth it right now? If we continue down this path what will happen is the MMO industry will shrink, fewer publishers will be willing to take a risk there for fewer MMOS will be out again. That will bring back the P2P system because all of these people that are no MMO players will be gone thank god.
I don't disagree, but I don't think it is that simple.
If a company concluded that they could net more profit from f2p as opposed to a sub, then they will go that route no matter the design.
If they can determine players will pay 15 dollars a month regularly under a sub plan, but those same players will average greater than 15 dollars a month on a f2p model, guess what they would choose, wow-clone or not?
Look at a 5 month comparison:
15 + 15 + 15 + 15 + 15 = 75$
0 + 15 (I need another char slot) + 5 + 20 (man i need that mount) + 50 (xmas time! thx for the gift certificates) = 90$
Voila! F2P model accepted, wow clone or not.
Yea but F2P cash shops are going to do 1 thing honestly drive MMO players away. Why? Because the whole premise is based on people not being able to control their spending. It will work for a little while however not long term. Why? Simple MMO players average age is 37 years old. With that said if more and more of the average MMO players learn this is what is happening to the genera they will just quit playing. They will not be impluse buyers like the younger crowd because they have kids and a family to support. Spending more than $15 to $50 a month on a game will piss people off and you already see backlash from mmo gamers against some of these games cash shops. As much as people think it will stick it will not. In a few years F2P will just be another model.
No, f2p is based around removing the entry barrier to playing an MMO which in the p2p world brought about inevitable decline. When you logged into an older p2p game the starter areas were deserted, this is not the case in f2p games as there is no barrier to trying out the game. But with the f2p model you can earn more money from those who are willing to pay it. Also your free players are just as needed as these are the ones who generate the income that rich players can then sell cash shop items to them for ingame money. Big MMO dev's haven't cottoned on to this where many established f2p companies have. Free players monetise the rich players so you all play harmoniously in one big group hug of an MMO. Its actually doing the exact opposite of what you are saying.
Go study business. F2P will not sustain the MMO industry period.
Really? the reason the whole online gaming world is moving to f2p models is because it is better for business, are you really that blind? Oh and for you information I'm actually studying Economics at the moment, the underlining principles of Business, so your point is?
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
people will get sick of getting nickel and dimed with f2p and some new "less obvious scam" payment method will come out and people will say f2p is dead....The don't make mmo's like they used too.....
P2P is only having a problem because games are coping an pasting WoW designs and are not worth $15 a month. Add to that there are what 48+ MMOs so its a competition of crap vs crap so who is going to spend their money when nothing is worth it right now? If we continue down this path what will happen is the MMO industry will shrink, fewer publishers will be willing to take a risk there for fewer MMOS will be out again. That will bring back the P2P system because all of these people that are no MMO players will be gone thank god.
I don't disagree, but I don't think it is that simple.
If a company concluded that they could net more profit from f2p as opposed to a sub, then they will go that route no matter the design.
If they can determine players will pay 15 dollars a month regularly under a sub plan, but those same players will average greater than 15 dollars a month on a f2p model, guess what they would choose, wow-clone or not?
Look at a 5 month comparison:
15 + 15 + 15 + 15 + 15 = 75$
0 + 15 (I need another char slot) + 5 + 20 (man i need that mount) + 50 (xmas time! thx for the gift certificates) = 90$
Voila! F2P model accepted, wow clone or not.
Yea but F2P cash shops are going to do 1 thing honestly drive MMO players away. Why? Because the whole premise is based on people not being able to control their spending. It will work for a little while however not long term. Why? Simple MMO players average age is 37 years old. With that said if more and more of the average MMO players learn this is what is happening to the genera they will just quit playing. They will not be impluse buyers like the younger crowd because they have kids and a family to support. Spending more than $15 to $50 a month on a game will piss people off and you already see backlash from mmo gamers against some of these games cash shops. As much as people think it will stick it will not. In a few years F2P will just be another model.
No, f2p is based around removing the entry barrier to playing an MMO which in the p2p world brought about inevitable decline. When you logged into an older p2p game the starter areas were deserted, this is not the case in f2p games as there is no barrier to trying out the game. But with the f2p model you can earn more money from those who are willing to pay it. Also your free players are just as needed as these are the ones who generate the income that rich players can then sell cash shop items to them for ingame money. Big MMO dev's haven't cottoned on to this where many established f2p companies have. Free players monetise the rich players so you all play harmoniously in one big group hug of an MMO. Its actually doing the exact opposite of what you are saying.
Go study business. F2P will not sustain the MMO industry period.
Oh oh. Appeal to authority.
I think the main problem with what you are saying is that you are making it up and haven't provided any evidence. You just say it's true because you said it's true. And now you have stooped so low as to imply that all the people that believe differently than you aren't educated enough to understand the F2P vs P2P situation in any meaningful way.
It's not that people are incapable of understanding the F2P/P2P dynamics, it that what you are saying is nonsense. You are speculating on the future without using any previous or current data to support your viewpoint. Actually, you are blatantly preaching against current trends based on faith that F2P is not sustainable. And your reasons why?
1. Old people won't put up with it. (Pulled straight from ass).
2. The games are crap. (Umm, that's like, your opinion man).
3. Too many games are coming out. (You would think this would be FAR worse for the P2P games).
4. Spending money on games will piss people off so much they will quit. (WTF? Why would they spend money if it pisses them off?)
I just wish you had ONE good reason you feel the F2P model is unsustainable that has nothing to do with you not liking the F2P model - which I do understand. I mean, it makes sense to me why some people absolutely hate the F2P model, but that is really irrelevant.
Originally posted by Datastar people will get sick of getting nickel and dimed with f2p and some new "less obvious scam" payment method will come out and people will say f2p is dead....The don't make mmo's like they used too.....
Except some games actually offer real F2P content and do not nickel and dime you. EQ, EQ2 come to mind since all classes, races were just opened. The only thing you pay for is to use the elite gear or rank 2 spells both of which you can go without unless you're hardcore into the game in which case you should just pay a sub fee anyway.
Other games like PS2 don't nickel and dime you.
You know where the nickel and dime games come from ? Asia.
The real reason F2P does so well is that there is no expenditure cap. With P2P everyone spends $15. Theres no way for people who are willing to spend more to do so. With F2P, players who really love a game or have more disposable income can spend as much as they want. It creates a secondary economy also where players who don't have time to play can use real money to buy items from players who have ample free time (hence contributing to keeping the paying players, even though those players themselves do not directly pay the company).
Lets face it, micro-transactions are the way of the future. Music, TV, entertainment... its all moving towards paying for exactly what you want.
P2P is only having a problem because games are coping an pasting WoW designs and are not worth $15 a month. Add to that there are what 48+ MMOs so its a competition of crap vs crap so who is going to spend their money when nothing is worth it right now? If we continue down this path what will happen is the MMO industry will shrink, fewer publishers will be willing to take a risk there for fewer MMOS will be out again. That will bring back the P2P system because all of these people that are no MMO players will be gone thank god.
I don't disagree, but I don't think it is that simple.
If a company concluded that they could net more profit from f2p as opposed to a sub, then they will go that route no matter the design.
If they can determine players will pay 15 dollars a month regularly under a sub plan, but those same players will average greater than 15 dollars a month on a f2p model, guess what they would choose, wow-clone or not?
Look at a 5 month comparison:
15 + 15 + 15 + 15 + 15 = 75$
0 + 15 (I need another char slot) + 5 + 20 (man i need that mount) + 50 (xmas time! thx for the gift certificates) = 90$
Voila! F2P model accepted, wow clone or not.
Yea but F2P cash shops are going to do 1 thing honestly drive MMO players away. Why? Because the whole premise is based on people not being able to control their spending. It will work for a little while however not long term. Why? Simple MMO players average age is 37 years old. With that said if more and more of the average MMO players learn this is what is happening to the genera they will just quit playing. They will not be impluse buyers like the younger crowd because they have kids and a family to support. Spending more than $15 to $50 a month on a game will piss people off and you already see backlash from mmo gamers against some of these games cash shops. As much as people think it will stick it will not. In a few years F2P will just be another model.
No, f2p is based around removing the entry barrier to playing an MMO which in the p2p world brought about inevitable decline. When you logged into an older p2p game the starter areas were deserted, this is not the case in f2p games as there is no barrier to trying out the game. But with the f2p model you can earn more money from those who are willing to pay it. Also your free players are just as needed as these are the ones who generate the income that rich players can then sell cash shop items to them for ingame money. Big MMO dev's haven't cottoned on to this where many established f2p companies have. Free players monetise the rich players so you all play harmoniously in one big group hug of an MMO. Its actually doing the exact opposite of what you are saying.
Go study business. F2P will not sustain the MMO industry period.
Really? the reason the whole online gaming world is moving to f2p models is because it is better for business, are you really that blind? Oh and for you information I'm actually studying Economics at the moment, the underlining principles of Business, so your point is?
It is going F2p because less and less people are willing to pay a sub for yet ANOTHER wow clone...
Go study business. F2P will not sustain the MMO industry period.
Really? the reason the whole online gaming world is moving to f2p models is because it is better for business, are you really that blind? Oh and for you information I'm actually studying Economics at the moment, the underlining principles of Business, so your point is?
It is going F2p because less and less people are willing to pay a sub for yet ANOTHER wow clone...
Age Of Wushu/Wulin - WoW Clone?
Guild Wars 2 - WoW clone?
The Secret World - WoW Clone?
Defiance - WoW Clone?
Vanguard - WoW Clone?
STO - WoW Clone?
DCU Online - WoW Clone?
Planetside 2 - WoW Clone?
EQ - WoW Clone? there's some big irony here.
Lineage 2 - WoW Clone?
Mortal Online - WoW Clone?
I personally play 3 fully f2p games that are definitely not WoW clones
Granada Espada, Jade Dynasty and Atlantica and there are many many more...
So I ask do people actually do any research or thinking before they post or is it just knee jerk emotional reactions to something they don't like? I think its the latter.
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Originally posted by Theodwulf nothing in the world is "FREE"... servers and the people who run them and those that develop content and the electricity to empower them all, cost money..someone is paying someone for these services.. you, who pays nothing, ARE the product. Does F2P scare you yet?
I was already being treated as a product by being 'encouraged' to group. Devs do that by having solo play always gimped in one way or another even when they say it isn't or that they won't (glaring at you, Guild Wars 2). So I'm perfectly happy with free and buy to play. For various reasons, but mostly for being treated as a second class citizen because I enjoy mostly solo play, I haven't wanted to pay much if anything for games for awhile now.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
The reason games go F2P after they have been a subscription is because they have no faith in the work they do, but still want to get paid the same amount or near the same amount.
Comments
No thats where you are wrong. The older players are getting tired of F2P games because what problem that they are causing. You can be all for F2P and think it will stick however it will not. I will give you an example why myself and my group of friends chosen not to play a F2P game that has no subscription. Neverwinter is doing what ever it can to get you to buy ID scrolls and other things in game, if you do not spend several hours in game getting AD to buy these things off the Auction house then you need to spend real money on it. What did it make my friends do, uninstall and I am the 2nd youngest of a crew of 12. All are 35 years old or older and want nothing to do with F2P games that do not have a subscription. Why because its worse for the customer as much as people THINK it is. Its not. They would rather play a game like SWTOR pay $15 a month and not have to buy stuff like Raid unlocks, or FP unlocks. Its very simple this will not last long and will shrink the industry. There is no way 48+ games will be supported on impulse buying in a cashshop. Only subscriptions will sustain the required hardware and man power behind these games.
Oh, right. You speak for all older players. I think it's nice that there is a less expensive option for those under the pinch.
Dude F2P will not sustain this industry long as much as you think so. The industry will add another dozen games in the next year. The population is too spread out and until games shut down the F2P games will keep finding ways to make a few extra dollars. In the end games will fold and P2P will be back. F2P and handouts old can last so long.
In my opinion, it's more likely that the older P2P games will start to fold and people will move from them to the newer F2P games. Look at what Kotick was saying earlier.
I love when people complain (Never Winter Nights MMO in my example) of sales bots spamming general chat in a free game. Then I'll say because it's not sub - they will reply, WOW was Sub and had gold sellers - but then I point out ALL games have gold sellers - make a game free to login to, however - and it's a fricken poop storm.
You sound like that dumbass dude whos making Camelot. F2P is not a trend its a culture it will be around for decades.
No, f2p is based around removing the entry barrier to playing an MMO which in the p2p world brought about inevitable decline. When you logged into an older p2p game the starter areas were deserted, this is not the case in f2p games as there is no barrier to trying out the game. But with the f2p model you can earn more money from those who are willing to pay it. Also your free players are just as needed as these are the ones who generate the income that rich players can then sell cash shop items to them for ingame money. Big MMO dev's haven't cottoned on to this where many established f2p companies have. Free players monetise the rich players so you all play harmoniously in one big group hug of an MMO. Its actually doing the exact opposite of what you are saying.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
People thought I was crazy back in January when I said Rift was going F2P. I left because the population was dropping like a rock. I pointed out that fact that the game is the same grind for end game as WoW, there was nothing that sets it apart from WoW to make it worth the money that was put into it. Here we are 5 months later knowing Rifts going F2P to get any extra money out of the game as possible because they cannot stay in business.
I am also working in the IT industry to become a Executive level manager that understands the balance between business needs and the cost of doing business with is IT. What people don't understand is often businesses bubble up just like the economy with one marketing scheme and then goes back to a sustainable marketing scheme. Than another new marketing scheme comes up and the bubble blows up and then goes back to a sustainable marketing scheme. Its the way of most businesses. Look at how banking and the housing industry changed in the early 2000's now they are back to WHAT WORKS with fewer companies to compete against.
It's not that hard to see nor understand. It is what it is and time will shift MMOs back to P2P with a few F2P hybrids and maybe a B2P there, with Tablet games being B2P or F2P cash shops. A few web based games will be F2P with cash shops. Its the business cycle, its something that has not hit the MMO industry until now and you will start seeing the industry bubble up and pop then the cycle will start over again.
Go study business. F2P will not sustain the MMO industry period.
No gold sellers in Jade Dynasty, PWI, BOI, WOI all Perfect World f2p games, so your point is?
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Really? the reason the whole online gaming world is moving to f2p models is because it is better for business, are you really that blind? Oh and for you information I'm actually studying Economics at the moment, the underlining principles of Business, so your point is?
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The problem is a lot of paid pies don't taste good either.
Oh oh. Appeal to authority.
I think the main problem with what you are saying is that you are making it up and haven't provided any evidence. You just say it's true because you said it's true. And now you have stooped so low as to imply that all the people that believe differently than you aren't educated enough to understand the F2P vs P2P situation in any meaningful way.
It's not that people are incapable of understanding the F2P/P2P dynamics, it that what you are saying is nonsense. You are speculating on the future without using any previous or current data to support your viewpoint. Actually, you are blatantly preaching against current trends based on faith that F2P is not sustainable. And your reasons why?
1. Old people won't put up with it. (Pulled straight from ass).
2. The games are crap. (Umm, that's like, your opinion man).
3. Too many games are coming out. (You would think this would be FAR worse for the P2P games).
4. Spending money on games will piss people off so much they will quit. (WTF? Why would they spend money if it pisses them off?)
I just wish you had ONE good reason you feel the F2P model is unsustainable that has nothing to do with you not liking the F2P model - which I do understand. I mean, it makes sense to me why some people absolutely hate the F2P model, but that is really irrelevant.
Diablo III is more to blame for the loss of subs than F2P games, imo.
There's just too many options out there these days, most of them not MMOs.
Except some games actually offer real F2P content and do not nickel and dime you. EQ, EQ2 come to mind since all classes, races were just opened. The only thing you pay for is to use the elite gear or rank 2 spells both of which you can go without unless you're hardcore into the game in which case you should just pay a sub fee anyway.
Other games like PS2 don't nickel and dime you.
You know where the nickel and dime games come from ? Asia.
It's as about as much of a trend as was going from paying per hour to paying per month was.
The real reason F2P does so well is that there is no expenditure cap. With P2P everyone spends $15. Theres no way for people who are willing to spend more to do so. With F2P, players who really love a game or have more disposable income can spend as much as they want. It creates a secondary economy also where players who don't have time to play can use real money to buy items from players who have ample free time (hence contributing to keeping the paying players, even though those players themselves do not directly pay the company).
Lets face it, micro-transactions are the way of the future. Music, TV, entertainment... its all moving towards paying for exactly what you want.
It is going F2p because less and less people are willing to pay a sub for yet ANOTHER wow clone...
Age Of Wushu/Wulin - WoW Clone?
Guild Wars 2 - WoW clone?
The Secret World - WoW Clone?
Defiance - WoW Clone?
Vanguard - WoW Clone?
STO - WoW Clone?
DCU Online - WoW Clone?
Planetside 2 - WoW Clone?
EQ - WoW Clone? there's some big irony here.
Lineage 2 - WoW Clone?
Mortal Online - WoW Clone?
I personally play 3 fully f2p games that are definitely not WoW clones
Granada Espada, Jade Dynasty and Atlantica and there are many many more...
So I ask do people actually do any research or thinking before they post or is it just knee jerk emotional reactions to something they don't like? I think its the latter.
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I was already being treated as a product by being 'encouraged' to group. Devs do that by having solo play always gimped in one way or another even when they say it isn't or that they won't (glaring at you, Guild Wars 2). So I'm perfectly happy with free and buy to play. For various reasons, but mostly for being treated as a second class citizen because I enjoy mostly solo play, I haven't wanted to pay much if anything for games for awhile now.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
They also cited competition, no doubt also from other online (and prob also off-line) games like Diablo 3.
It is a mistake to assume gamers have any loyalty to a specific genre.