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Great game but............

ElirionLothElirionLoth Houston, TXPosts: 264Member Common

This is a great game imo and was exactly what I was looking for.  Not easy mode, fun PvP, lots of things to do in groups, etc.  I've been playing on Red Phoenix server since it launched about a month ago.  Anyway, I logged into my character this weekend to find all of my in-game money stolen and all of my purchased gold that I haven't spent gone.  I haven't been able to get in touch with a GM all weekend because, apparently, they don't work weekends.  I waited for a response for two hours before someone told me this.

 

After asking about the issue in area chat, I was told by several people that this problem is rampant and that Snail has refused to do anything about the problem.  They are blaming the customer on this one.  Here are some examples:

 

 

 
Now, I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do but wanted to give this a little more visibility.  I will probably be quitting this game if Snail treats me the way they have been treating others.  Snail appears to be taking a great game and ruining it with their lack of support. 
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Comments

  • munsil42munsil42 West Rutland, VTPosts: 80Member Uncommon
    Thank you for this post, I will be uninstalling this game as soon as I am done typing this.

    image
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,258Member Uncommon

    it's a shame, but I can't think of any game that it doesn't happen in. I was "Hacked" during the first week of GW2 along with around 10,000(number from Anet, I believe many more) other gamers. 

     

    The first time was in WoW. Blizzard to their credit restored my items, Anet did not, nor will Snail. Since my second time I've become very careful, borderline paranoid. 

     

    Maybe one day a system will be designed that eliminates this problem. Until then we need to do all we can on our end.

     

     

  • ext1ext1 south bend, INPosts: 98Member

    I always liked SWTOR's authenticator system. I wished more games went that route.

    image

  • SenanSenan Tuscaloosa, ALPosts: 783Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully

    it's a shame, but I can't think of any game that it doesn't happen in. I was "Hacked" during the first week of GW2 along with around 10,000(number from Anet, I believe many more) other gamers. 

     

    The first time was in WoW. Blizzard to their credit restored my items, Anet did not, nor will Snail. Since my second time I've become very careful, borderline paranoid. 

     

    Maybe one day a system will be designed that eliminates this problem. Until then we need to do all we can on our end.

     

     

    The thing is, Snail has about the worst security I've probably ever seen in an mmo (not just the game, but also their sites.) They constantly elude to this being merely an issue of the player's own foolishness and irresponsibility and that they should work harder to protect their own accounts, yet Snail doesn't even seem to employ the most basic of security measures. For a game made in China, they should have known full well that it would be an obvious target for hacking/gold selling, and thus provided players a means to protect their accounts further (through secondary passwords, authenticators, etc). At the very least, they could have the decency to reimburse people who become financially ruined by these hackings, especially when they seem to be fairly wide-spread.

    Like I've said before, the game itself is great, but the company running it is about the most unprofessional I've ever seen. If they don't do something to change that image, I think it's going to bite them in the ass, in the end.

    image
  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully

    it's a shame, but I can't think of any game that it doesn't happen in. I was "Hacked" during the first week of GW2 along with around 10,000(number from Anet, I believe many more) other gamers. 

     

    The first time was in WoW. Blizzard to their credit restored my items, Anet did not, nor will Snail. Since my second time I've become very careful, borderline paranoid. 

     

    Maybe one day a system will be designed that eliminates this problem. Until then we need to do all we can on our end.

     

     

    That's weird. When my wife's GW2 Anet account was hacked she had all of her money and items restored within 2-3 days.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • Soki123Soki123 Kelowna, BCPosts: 1,477Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rodingo
    Originally posted by bcbully

    it's a shame, but I can't think of any game that it doesn't happen in. I was "Hacked" during the first week of GW2 along with around 10,000(number from Anet, I believe many more) other gamers. 

     

    The first time was in WoW. Blizzard to their credit restored my items, Anet did not, nor will Snail. Since my second time I've become very careful, borderline paranoid. 

     

    Maybe one day a system will be designed that eliminates this problem. Until then we need to do all we can on our end.

     

     

    That's weird. When my wife's GW2 Anet account was hacked she had all of her money and items restored within 2-3 days.

    My wife was hacked, and nothing was returned either. Weird they re selective.

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Soki123
    Originally posted by rodingo
    Originally posted by bcbully

    it's a shame, but I can't think of any game that it doesn't happen in. I was "Hacked" during the first week of GW2 along with around 10,000(number from Anet, I believe many more) other gamers. 

     

    The first time was in WoW. Blizzard to their credit restored my items, Anet did not, nor will Snail. Since my second time I've become very careful, borderline paranoid. 

     

    Maybe one day a system will be designed that eliminates this problem. Until then we need to do all we can on our end.

     

     

    That's weird. When my wife's GW2 Anet account was hacked she had all of her money and items restored within 2-3 days.

    My wife was hacked, and nothing was returned either. Weird they re selective.

    indeed

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • VorchVorch Somewhere, FLPosts: 800Member

    First few months of GW2, people's accounts were hacked using password aggregators (aka using the same password for forums, email, and game) as well simply having a weak password.

    Starting in December I believe, ANet has added the ability to restore people's accounts to an earlier state. This can only be done once per account..

    When making a password, use https://howsecureismypassword.net/

     

    I do hope that AoW players get their stuff back.

     

    "As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days— those are now the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Seilan

    The thing is, Snail has about the worst security I've probably ever seen in an mmo (not just the game, but also their sites.) They constantly elude to this being merely an issue of the player's own foolishness and irresponsibility and that they should work harder to protect their own accounts, yet Snail doesn't even seem to employ the most basic of security measures.

    Please elaborate how their site is insecure and lack of other security measure....

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,288Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorch

    First few months of GW2, people's accounts were hacked using password aggregators (aka using the same password for forums, email, and game) as well simply having a weak password.

    Starting in December I believe, ANet has added the ability to restore people's accounts to an earlier state. This can only be done once per account..

    When making a password, use https://howsecureismypassword.net/

     

    I do hope that AoW players get their stuff back.

     

    while having a good password is always necessary, i think MMO companies should really be using authenticator tokens now, the bigger games use them, and as an added layer of protection they are very very good. The problem though is that while the keyfob authenticators don't cost all that much in themselves and the smartphone app ones are cheaper still, the added security to the log in servers etc, is more expensive to implement ie, the majority of the costing for this level of protection is server side. But with hacking becoming far more common these days, if companies really care about their playerbase, then they will have to go the 'extra mile' to help protect them. Passwords alone are not enough, not these days.image

  • SenanSenan Tuscaloosa, ALPosts: 783Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Seilan

    The thing is, Snail has about the worst security I've probably ever seen in an mmo (not just the game, but also their sites.) They constantly elude to this being merely an issue of the player's own foolishness and irresponsibility and that they should work harder to protect their own accounts, yet Snail doesn't even seem to employ the most basic of security measures.

     

    Please elaborate how their site is insecure and lack of other security measure....

    Go to their site, pick one of their "Top Up" options, and notice how even at the CC information stage, the page is not secure. There's also plenty of complaints about this on the official forums. Do some research on it if you want more specifics.

    It's also not difficult to see what little security measures they have for the actual game itself, of which I already listed a few examples earlier. They don't even have a "brute-force" mechanism for the login server, so you can put in an incorrect password as many times as you want without getting locked out. It's basic security 101 stuff, and they don't employ it for some strange reason.

    image
  • ElirionLothElirionLoth Houston, TXPosts: 264Member Common
    I logged into AoW's forums today to see if a moderator had commented on my story of my in game money and gold being stolen and, guess what, the entire thread had been deleted.  No response, no e-mail, no assistance, just deleted.  Greatest gaming company ever!
  • redcappredcapp brook, NYPosts: 722Member
    Appreciate the heads up.  Been wondering whether this game was worth a second chance, since so many hail it as this great 'sandbox' experience.  Apparently not.
  • betatrybetatry .Posts: 28Member

    Funny that mostly ppl who got  hacked bought gold i mean i got 700L in inventory and  6 digit number only pass and no hackers so far. Russian wushu go 4 pin code if you want to trade or delete item. Sadly snail can't come with something as simple as this.

    I rather wait for Gpatato release then play this mess.

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,918Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Seilan
    Originally posted by bcbully

    it's a shame, but I can't think of any game that it doesn't happen in. I was "Hacked" during the first week of GW2 along with around 10,000(number from Anet, I believe many more) other gamers. 

     

    The first time was in WoW. Blizzard to their credit restored my items, Anet did not, nor will Snail. Since my second time I've become very careful, borderline paranoid. 

     

    Maybe one day a system will be designed that eliminates this problem. Until then we need to do all we can on our end.

     

     

    The thing is, Snail has about the worst security I've probably ever seen in an mmo (not just the game, but also their sites.) They constantly elude to this being merely an issue of the player's own foolishness and irresponsibility and that they should work harder to protect their own accounts, yet Snail doesn't even seem to employ the most basic of security measures. For a game made in China, they should have known full well that it would be an obvious target for hacking/gold selling, and thus provided players a means to protect their accounts further (through secondary passwords, authenticators, etc). At the very least, they could have the decency to reimburse people who become financially ruined by these hackings, especially when they seem to be fairly wide-spread.

    Like I've said before, the game itself is great, but the company running it is about the most unprofessional I've ever seen. If they don't do something to change that image, I think it's going to bite them in the ass, in the end.

     I found it quite funny that Snail games also blamed the player base for not doing enough research on the game when they went to the paid beta phase. Players paid for the game and made characters to test out the game. Those characters received the pre-order benefits and the players didn't know that they lost those benefits if they deleted those characters.

     There was no in-depth information for the players to research the classes in the game and if someone deleted their character they lost these benefits. Snail Games responded by stating, "it's the customers fault for not doing enough research about the game before making their decision." However, Snail Games never gave the customer-base any information to the players so that they could make an informed decision.

     I personally don't even play Age of Wushu anymore due to the terrible lag I get when I play the game. The character displacement that people have while ground dashing is almost impossible for players to properly react in a PvP game. Not to mention immense amounts of lag during peak hours just Isn't fun. However, I've played other betas for this game including the Russian and European betas and their servers were significantly more stable for myself. I live on the east coast of the U.S. and I shouldn't be receiving better latency while connected to another countries servers.

     

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • healboothealboot key west, FLPosts: 83Member Uncommon

    Its made in China the land of no regard, there Government supports hacking and they LOL at stupid people who put so much trust in a company, its just a small segment of there cyber war training program

     

  • SenanSenan Tuscaloosa, ALPosts: 783Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ElirionLoth
    I logged into AoW's forums today to see if a moderator had commented on my story of my in game money and gold being stolen and, guess what, the entire thread had been deleted.  No response, no e-mail, no assistance, just deleted.  Greatest gaming company ever!

    Yeah, I noticed that earlier. I had been watching your thread on the forums (just now realized your name on here heh), and I also saw the new thread you made about them deleting the last one. Honestly, I think if anything is going to severely hurt this game in the long run, it's this company. They can continue to sweep everything under the rug all they want, but they will more than likely destroy their entire reputation as a gaming company in the process. Just now, I was reading through yet ANOTHER thread on this very subject, and as per usual, it's filling with people who have been dealing with the very same thing. Wonder how long it will take them to delete that one too...

    I'm being totally serious when I say this... I've seen private servers with far more professional staff. That's really sad.

    image
  • SenanSenan Tuscaloosa, ALPosts: 783Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Seilan
    Originally posted by bcbully

    it's a shame, but I can't think of any game that it doesn't happen in. I was "Hacked" during the first week of GW2 along with around 10,000(number from Anet, I believe many more) other gamers. 

     

    The first time was in WoW. Blizzard to their credit restored my items, Anet did not, nor will Snail. Since my second time I've become very careful, borderline paranoid. 

     

    Maybe one day a system will be designed that eliminates this problem. Until then we need to do all we can on our end.

     

     

    The thing is, Snail has about the worst security I've probably ever seen in an mmo (not just the game, but also their sites.) They constantly elude to this being merely an issue of the player's own foolishness and irresponsibility and that they should work harder to protect their own accounts, yet Snail doesn't even seem to employ the most basic of security measures. For a game made in China, they should have known full well that it would be an obvious target for hacking/gold selling, and thus provided players a means to protect their accounts further (through secondary passwords, authenticators, etc). At the very least, they could have the decency to reimburse people who become financially ruined by these hackings, especially when they seem to be fairly wide-spread.

    Like I've said before, the game itself is great, but the company running it is about the most unprofessional I've ever seen. If they don't do something to change that image, I think it's going to bite them in the ass, in the end.

     I found it quite funny that Snail games also blamed the player base for not doing enough research on the game when they went to the paid beta phase. Players paid for the game and made characters to test out the game. Those characters received the pre-order benefits and the players didn't know that they lost those benefits if they deleted those characters.

     There was no in-depth information for the players to research the classes in the game and if someone deleted their character they lost these benefits. Snail Games responded by stating, "it's the customers fault for not doing enough research about the game before making their decision." However, Snail Games never gave the customer-base any information to the players so that they could make an informed decision.

     I personally don't even play Age of Wushu anymore due to the terrible lag I get when I play the game. The character displacement that people have while ground dashing is almost impossible for players to properly react in a PvP game. Not to mention immense amounts of lag during peak hours just Isn't fun. However, I've played other betas for this game including the Russian and European betas and their servers were significantly more stable for myself. I live on the east coast of the U.S. and I shouldn't be receiving better latency while connected to another countries servers.

     

    Ha, don't even get me started on the lack of transparency for certain aspects of the game. I still don't understand why I never got my 7 days of free VIP or other rewards after that "pre-character creation" thing they had going before launch. As far as I could tell, I did everything that was required to qualify for it, but nothing ever came of it, so I have to assume it was "my fault" for not figuring out something that probably wasn't even stated anywhere. This happened to many others as well, I believe.

    As for the server locked VIP situation, I still don't understand that decision at all. I mean, I can see them wanting to regulate it to a "per character" basis considering it's cheaper than a normal subscription fee, but I don't see the problem in making it an option across all servers (so if you want to play on a different server, just delete the character on the other and keep the benefits - simple.) One of the vets around here didn't realize this until after the fact either, after having playing on Blue Dragon for quite some time, and lost two months worth of VIP time after deciding to remake for the new servers on release. She decided she was done with the game after that, and I can't blame her. Situations like that could easily be avoided if the company had any kind of competency.

    I can feel you on the lag as well. I'm in the central US, and even though the game has been out awhile, I still get really bad latency "yoyoing" at times. I'll be sitting at around 82 one second (which is great), and the next I'll be at 300+. It can be a real pita in pvp.

    At this point, I might just hold off until Age of Wulin comes out. I'm not a fan of gpotatoe by any means, but I can't imagine them being as bad as Snail, at least in terms of stability and customer service. I've messed around on a few of their games, and I don't think I ever noticed latency issues akin to what I've experienced so far with Wushu. If I can get a more consistent (albeit generally higher) latency there, I think that alone would be enough of a reason to make the switch. My biggest fear would be the model they end up using for their cash shop. If I can say anything about Snail it's that they have a pretty reasonable cash shop selection (not too fond of all the 30 day non-permanent/rented items or being able to buy in-game currency, though.)

    image
  • AlamarethAlamareth Cincinnati, OHPosts: 570Member

    I'm probably one of the top 10 community participants for this game, and my posts regarding customer service on the forums were immediately locked and I was given a warning.  Thus, they are clearly going very aggressive on fully enforcing their rules regarding customer service on the forums.

    The moderators are NOT qualified to offer any customer service, which was a rule that was really not enforced until recently.  They want you to send everything through their helpdesk, and when you do so - be SURE you validate your email otherwise your request is not entered into their system.

    This is good and bad.  It's bad because people like me can no longer help anyone out with some of the softer, less technical issues.  This is good because it standardizes their system which should both increase quality and response time.  I've had fairly good experiences with their help desk, with quick responses from a GM always within 48 hours of submission.  When I requested specific GM attention, I got it - no canned responses.

    Before blasting them too much for heavy forum moderation, try their helpdesk.  For issues on hacking, they do not refund, but they should be helpful regarding payment issues.  I still feel like the whole hacking thing is overblown, people frequently lie about that stuff on forums.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Seilan

    Go to their site, pick one of their "Top Up" options, and notice how even at the CC information stage, the page is not secure. There's also plenty of complaints about this on the official forums. Do some research on it if you want more specifics.It's also not difficult to see what little security measures they have for the actual game itself, of which I already listed a few examples earlier. They don't even have a "brute-force" mechanism for the login server, so you can put in an incorrect password as many times as you want without getting locked out. It's basic security 101 stuff, and they don't employ it for some strange reason.

    Oh dear...

    1) As I already pointed out somewhere on these boards, the site is secured. You just do not see https:// in url because they use frames. Very common practice.

    2) That is exactly how any decent security mechanism works - it won't lock out the account if you mistype 3 times in a row. Instead it is sensitive and capable to identify scripting.


    Stop reading forums and parroting all you read, majority of the posters are about as ignorant about IT security/tech as you are. That is fine, no one is expecting you to know how things work under the hood but you should have enough sense to acknowledge the your limits and hold back your judgments.

  • AlamarethAlamareth Cincinnati, OHPosts: 570Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Seilan

    Go to their site, pick one of their "Top Up" options, and notice how even at the CC information stage, the page is not secure. There's also plenty of complaints about this on the official forums. Do some research on it if you want more specifics.

     

    It's also not difficult to see what little security measures they have for the actual game itself, of which I already listed a few examples earlier. They don't even have a "brute-force" mechanism for the login server, so you can put in an incorrect password as many times as you want without getting locked out. It's basic security 101 stuff, and they don't employ it for some strange reason.


     

    Oh dear...

    1) As I already pointed out somewhere on these boards, the site is secured. You just do not see https:// in url because they use frames. Very common practice.

    2) That is exactly how any decent security mechanism works - it won't lock out the account if you mistype 3 times in a row. Instead it is sensitive and capable to identify scripting.


    Stop reading forums and parroting all you read, majority of the posters are about as ignorant about IT security/tech as you are. That is fine, no one is expecting you to know how things work under the hood but you should have enough sense to acknowledge the your limits and hold back your judgments.

    Wait...are you kidding me?  That's how people were rating Snail USA's security!?  All based on whether or not their browser noted SSL Encryption padlock on the url menu?

    You are kidding, right?  Please tell me you are kidding....

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Alamareth

    Wait...are you kidding me?  That's how people were rating Snail USA's security!?  All based on whether or not their browser noted SSL Encryption padlock on the url menu?You are kidding, right?  Please tell me you are kidding....

    Nope.

    It is 3rd time I read it(and reply to) on these boards. Anytime I asked for specifics how Snail Games is lacking security measures, I got no technically relevant answer.

  • ElirionLothElirionLoth Houston, TXPosts: 264Member Common
    Originally posted by Alamareth

    I'm probably one of the top 10 community participants for this game, and my posts regarding customer service on the forums were immediately locked and I was given a warning.  Thus, they are clearly going very aggressive on fully enforcing their rules regarding customer service on the forums.

    The moderators are NOT qualified to offer any customer service, which was a rule that was really not enforced until recently.  They want you to send everything through their helpdesk, and when you do so - be SURE you validate your email otherwise your request is not entered into their system.

    This is good and bad.  It's bad because people like me can no longer help anyone out with some of the softer, less technical issues.  This is good because it standardizes their system which should both increase quality and response time.  I've had fairly good experiences with their help desk, with quick responses from a GM always within 48 hours of submission.  When I requested specific GM attention, I got it - no canned responses.

    Before blasting them too much for heavy forum moderation, try their helpdesk.  For issues on hacking, they do not refund, but they should be helpful regarding payment issues.  I still feel like the whole hacking thing is overblown, people frequently lie about that stuff on forums.

    I have sent in multiple GM requests and multiple Helpdesk requests and have received no response and we're over the 72 hour mark.  I've spoken with numerous people who have had their accounts hacked both in my guild and by PM when I was asking questions in game.  The problem is not overblown and Snail does nothing, I mean nothing, to assist people who have been hacked.  They won't even acknowledge the problem.  What are you basing your "overblown" theory on? 

     

    They are enforcing the customer service issue because they don't want this problem to become well known.  If it were otherwise, they could just lock the threads but they have chosen to delete threads about hacking.  Snail has no intention of fixing this problem unless the community makes it an issue.  Sticking your head in the sand about it will only allow it to become worse.  

  • ElirionLothElirionLoth Houston, TXPosts: 264Member Common

    Well, here is the response from Snail finally:

     

    Greetings,

    Thank you for reporting your account to us. We are having our security team re-verify the integrity of our systems to ensure that they have not been breached. It appears your account has been compromised by a third party. As account security is the responsibility of the player who holds the password, Snail Games is unable to give items/currency to any account that is reported as compromised.

    We are currently investigating these reports, however there is currently no indication that Snail's systems have been compromised. We can understand your frustration at someone gaining access to your account. We are continually monitoring our systems for any potential or actual breach, and have not found such an event to have taken place. The most common causes of compromise are phishing sites, trojan keyloggers, and account sharing. For information on how to protect against these threats, please visit us at http://www.ageofwushu.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=4537.

     

    There was no investigation done.  This was a form letter.  I have no Trojan keyloggers on my computer, have not shared my account, and have not entered my username and password on any other site.  I'm not really sure why Snail Games is "unable" to return items/currency.  I think the word should be "unwilling".  They can see that someone from another IP address logged into my account, they can see who all my money was traded to, why are they unable to do anything about this? 

     

    Anyway, play this game at your own risk.  I think I'll be moving on.

  • theocculttheoccult Miami, FLPosts: 36Member
    Originally posted by ElirionLoth
    I logged into AoW's forums today to see if a moderator had commented on my story of my in game money and gold being stolen and, guess what, the entire thread had been deleted.  No response, no e-mail, no assistance, just deleted.  Greatest gaming company ever!

     

    You openly accused Snail on the AOW forums to be involved in the hacking of accounts, and you are wondering why your thread was deleted?!

    google cache

    .

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