The problem with MMOs like Neverwinter is that Neverwinter wasn't an MMO until Perfect World took over. Cryptic did not design or advertise the game as an MMO.
You are half right. Neverwinter wasn't originally an MMORPG, but an MMODC(Massively Multiplayer Online Dungeon Crawler), similar to Phantasy Star Online 2, Vindictus (I think), and Rusty Hearts . It was still an MMO, but one without a "persitant world".
Even though this would have been closer to how D&D normally is, I cant help but wonder if it would have been better or worse than the curren iteration.
There is no such thing as a MMODC. There's nothing massively multiplayer about going into dungeons with 4 people.
That genre exists. It's the same genre Diablo is in. The original Neverwinter games were this way.
And the persistant world is one of the things that MAKES an MMO.
^What he said is spot on. People need to learn the definition of massively multiplayer. Also the difference between massively and massive is fundamental. Too many people don't understand the significance of the suffix -ly
Originally posted by Fendel84M Nothing in MMORPG says persistent.
And yet a hosted persistent server was pretty much the defining aspect of the MMORPGs that defined the genre. What makes Meridian 59 different from Doom? The fact that the world stays there even when you aren't, and that more than 10 people can join it. That isn't true with instancing.
Originally posted by Fendel84M Nothing in MMORPG says persistent.
And yet a hosted persistent server was pretty much the defining aspect of the MMORPGs that defined the genre. What makes Meridian 59 different from Doom? The fact that the world stays there even when you aren't, and that more than 10 people can join it. That isn't true with instancing.
The other side of it is how is M59 different from graphical muds? You had persistence in GMs. What you didn't have in GMs was the number of connections to the server (hence the massive in mmorpg) and or better graphics.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
M59 was/is such a unique beast of a game though. The community is so small everyone always knew everyone. Was always the best part of that game. If it wasnt for a lack of content I'd still consider it the best MMO around.
I got the feeling if I commit I'll end up stuck at endgame with nothing to do due to lack of content. On top the way it's headed with big raids and 5v5 I'll be depending on a community, which will limit me when and how much I can enjoy it.
It's been proven in the past that themepark designed MMORPG's without big revenue cannot maintain a steady content and endgame features.
foundry , does help . It'll only take you so far. Cryptic is really bad dev as far as raids go. The max number you'll ever raid with is 5 . You will see 20 person zones , but that's not a raid. See any of their other games . PvP is a non starter as far as Cryptic goes. Your only hope is the Foundry and the people making the content , because Cryptic's contribution from this point forward will be minimal and intermittent. It's just how they roll.
I got the feeling if I commit I'll end up stuck at endgame with nothing to do due to lack of content. On top the way it's headed with big raids and 5v5 I'll be depending on a community, which will limit me when and how much I can enjoy it.
It's been proven in the past that themepark designed MMORPG's without big revenue cannot maintain a steady content and endgame features.
foundry , does help . It'll only take you so far. Cryptic is really bad dev as far as raids go. The max number you'll ever raid with is 5 . You will see 20 person zones , but that's not a raid. See any of their other games . PvP is a non starter as far as Cryptic goes. Your only hope is the Foundry and the people making the content , because Cryptic's contribution from this point forward will be minimal and intermittent. It's just how they roll.
Here's a little problem with that.
This is a Dungeons and Dragons game, which will obviously attract Dungeons and Dragons players, and one thing Dungeons and Dragons players are not used to/have never had in a Dungeons and Dragons game is an adventure with 50 people playing. Of course Cryptic could include them, but that has a good chance of alienating the target demographic, namely D&D players.
So is it really just laziness that they might not include huge raids? Of course not: it is a choice made by Cryptic to make the game closer to a game of D&D than most other MMOS.
In DDO, how large were the raids? 12. Raids were 12 man dungeons in DDO. Again, not due to laziness, but due to a deliberate choice by the devs to attract the D&D players, to reassure them that they aren't just slapping on the D&D name.
So, which will it be: keep the dungeons/raids to small groups close to what a game of D&D should be and alienate the standard raid content MMO player, or make dungeons/raids huge to cater to rade content MMO players, but alienate the tabletop D&D player and risk being accused of merely making something unrelated to D&D and just slapping on the label and a D&D paint job? Can't have it both ways.
I got the feeling if I commit I'll end up stuck at endgame with nothing to do due to lack of content. On top the way it's headed with big raids and 5v5 I'll be depending on a community, which will limit me when and how much I can enjoy it.
It's been proven in the past that themepark designed MMORPG's without big revenue cannot maintain a steady content and endgame features.
ThemeParks cannot maintain a steady content, period. WoW is the only one that has, it is simply a flawed model for a sustained MMO and that is why virtually every MMO, again except WoW, have seen declining subs unless they give the game away and go F2P.
EQ2 has put out more content than wow and is by far a superior game in every single way,its just run by an inferior company that doesn't advertise it.
Comments
^What he said is spot on. People need to learn the definition of massively multiplayer. Also the difference between massively and massive is fundamental. Too many people don't understand the significance of the suffix -ly
And yet a hosted persistent server was pretty much the defining aspect of the MMORPGs that defined the genre. What makes Meridian 59 different from Doom? The fact that the world stays there even when you aren't, and that more than 10 people can join it. That isn't true with instancing.
The other side of it is how is M59 different from graphical muds? You had persistence in GMs. What you didn't have in GMs was the number of connections to the server (hence the massive in mmorpg) and or better graphics.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
foundry , does help . It'll only take you so far. Cryptic is really bad dev as far as raids go. The max number you'll ever raid with is 5 . You will see 20 person zones , but that's not a raid. See any of their other games . PvP is a non starter as far as Cryptic goes. Your only hope is the Foundry and the people making the content , because Cryptic's contribution from this point forward will be minimal and intermittent. It's just how they roll.
Here's a little problem with that.
This is a Dungeons and Dragons game, which will obviously attract Dungeons and Dragons players, and one thing Dungeons and Dragons players are not used to/have never had in a Dungeons and Dragons game is an adventure with 50 people playing. Of course Cryptic could include them, but that has a good chance of alienating the target demographic, namely D&D players.
So is it really just laziness that they might not include huge raids? Of course not: it is a choice made by Cryptic to make the game closer to a game of D&D than most other MMOS.
In DDO, how large were the raids? 12. Raids were 12 man dungeons in DDO. Again, not due to laziness, but due to a deliberate choice by the devs to attract the D&D players, to reassure them that they aren't just slapping on the D&D name.
So, which will it be: keep the dungeons/raids to small groups close to what a game of D&D should be and alienate the standard raid content MMO player, or make dungeons/raids huge to cater to rade content MMO players, but alienate the tabletop D&D player and risk being accused of merely making something unrelated to D&D and just slapping on the label and a D&D paint job? Can't have it both ways.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
EQ2 has put out more content than wow and is by far a superior game in every single way,its just run by an inferior company that doesn't advertise it.