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Let's talk about old game loyalty

zwei2zwei2 SingaporePosts: 361Member

So, with a whole slew of mmorpgs out there, are there any players now still loyal to their one original old game, most probably pay to play? Sure everyone can have occasional flings with new free games, and owning those buy to play games, but what is it compared to your one game that you are truely dedicated on?

 

A decade or 2 ago, when Neverwinter AOL was the GAME, people had no other choice to select from, so paying $5-$10 hourly, they get to be dazzled by the 2D, 320 by 240 pixels and played nonstop, as they got to actually interact with other real players rather then AI.

 

Then, Meridian 59, Ultima Online, Everquest, Asheron's Call and so forth started appearing in the late 90s, charging by subscription fee instead. Note though, it was still dial-up period, so cost of internet connection is high. Choices were more, but MMORPGs were still rather mysterious during the "Golden Era". Only those who were hardcore into online gaming stuck to their favorite game, camping for days on a rare loot, forming guilds and alliances, scheming to become the richest virtually etc. It gives a sense of accomplishment.

 

Fast forward to now, where the fad is f2p and b2p. With no obligation to pay (for b2p games, no subscription fee), players jump around like testing hookers/gigolos (I know, it is not a good analogy, but sadly it is kind of true), and ended up getting lost,  penniless,  cheated, made used of,  frustrated, burnouted, and random crapload of STDs... er... computer viruses.

 

Anyway, for me, rather then seeking the one true game and getting burnout, I do feel I am loyal to Everquest, to some extent. I did not have a subscriptios, and only bought some station cash stuff like extra mercenary slot, but whenever I wanted to play an mmorpg, Everquest will always be first in queue. Yes, bad graphics, bad animation, bad sound effects etc, but to a loyal player, all these will not matter... at least not much lol.

The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.

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Comments

  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,868Member Uncommon

    R.I.P. SWG (PreCU)

    First and missed.

     

    Yes, I have an old loyalty to EVE online. I can't deny the magic is gone though. Has been for a while, sub'ed or not, it's not there. My quest is to find that again, in a new MMO. I am loyal to my characters above all else and they are all named in legacy of SWG random name generated character. I just can't find homes for them right now.

  • zwei2zwei2 SingaporePosts: 361Member
    Originally posted by free2play

    R.I.P. SWG (PreCU)

    First and missed.

     

    Yes, I have an old loyalty to EVE online. I can't deny the magic is gone though. Has been for a while, sub'ed or not, it's not there. My quest is to find that again, in a new MMO. I am loyal to my characters above all else and they are all named in legacy of SWG random name generated character. I just can't find homes for them right now.

    Yes, it is rather sad when the first loyal game had ceased. While I had not experienced such, I can understand how the players of SWG feel. Whether that player can move on or get stuck in post-SWG cancellation limbo, damning SOE and Lucusarts for everything, it is that player's decision.

     

    Good luck for you to find your true MMO. There are new MMOs on the near horizons, like Neverwinter, Wildstar, ESO and beyond the horizons, like the newly funded Camelot Unchained, the secretive Everquest Next, Pathfinder Online and so forth. Surely one will be the One.

    The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.

  • SulaaSulaa nPosts: 1,151Member Common

    Loyality is earned, not given.  I am Loyal as long as game continue to provide me with experience I do enjoy and singed up for.

    Since all my long-term mmorpg's I've played - changed experience they were providing - by changing game emchanics, theme, game rules, business models, game concept, etc   - in a way I did not like and in a way that was not coherent with initial core game concepts IMHO- I am not 'loyal' to them anymore, I don't like what they become and  I don't play and obviously don't pay for them anymore.

     

  • AntiquatedAntiquated Oak Brook, MIPosts: 673Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zwei2

    So, with a whole slew of mmorpgs out there, are there any players now still loyal to their one original old game

    Are there (m)any that are not?

    Still pining for our first loves, a decade later... drama... emotion...

  • zwei2zwei2 SingaporePosts: 361Member
    Originally posted by Antiquated
    Originally posted by zwei2

    So, with a whole slew of mmorpgs out there, are there any players now still loyal to their one original old game

    Are there (m)any that are not?

    Still pining for our first loves, a decade later... drama... emotion...

    lol still pinning for first mmorpg and still playing the first mmorpg is quite different. And yes, the QQs are indeed interesting.

    The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon

    I still play CnC Renegade every now and then.

     

    somewhere in a forgotten basement in what was once Westwood office, a dusty plastic cover protects an old, yellowing Pentium 2, with a faint light slowly blinking...and that is probably why the servers are still up.

    image

  • zwei2zwei2 SingaporePosts: 361Member
    Originally posted by Sulaa

    Loyality is earned, not given.  I am Loyal as long as game continue to provide me with experience I do enjoy and singed up for.

    Since all my long-term mmorpg's I've played - changed experience they were providing - by changing game emchanics, theme, game rules, business models, game concept, etc   - in a way I did not like and in a way that was not coherent with initial core game concepts IMHO- I am not 'loyal' to them anymore, I don't like what they become and  I don't play and obviously don't pay for them anymore.

     

    Indeed, this is quite true too. Business changes and adapts, for better or for worse, and may ends up chasing away loyal clients with new ethics that do not sit well with the clients.

     

    Sometimes, loyalty can only be earned so much. When a better and stronger competition has appeared, and the game wishes to stay the same, it now boils down to the players loyalty, whether they will stay because it is the game they love, or jump because the competition has better, or the original game does not have what it takes to retain.

     

    Perhaps this is how old mmorpgs retains their players, instead of the players leaving enmass for new shinies.

    The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.

  • zwei2zwei2 SingaporePosts: 361Member
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    I still play CnC Renegade every now and then.

     

    somewhere in a forgotten basement in what was once Westwood office, a dusty plastic cover protects an old, yellowing Pentium 2, with a faint light slowly blinking...and that is probably why the servers are still up.

    Probably the janitor still maintains the server.

     

    I believe some very old games will still have a cult following, if it permits. There will still be players who play their games for fun, and not because it is the next new shiny.

    The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.

  • SulaaSulaa nPosts: 1,151Member Common
    Originally posted by zwei2
    Originally posted by Sulaa

    Loyality is earned, not given.  I am Loyal as long as game continue to provide me with experience I do enjoy and singed up for.

    Since all my long-term mmorpg's I've played - changed experience they were providing - by changing game emchanics, theme, game rules, business models, game concept, etc   - in a way I did not like and in a way that was not coherent with initial core game concepts IMHO- I am not 'loyal' to them anymore, I don't like what they become and  I don't play and obviously don't pay for them anymore.

     

    Indeed, this is quite true too. Business changes and adapts, for better or for worse, and may ends up chasing away loyal clients with new ethics that do not sit well with the clients.

     

    Sometimes, loyalty can only be earned so much. When a better and stronger competition has appeared, and the game wishes to stay the same, it now boils down to the players loyalty, whether they will stay because it is the game they love, or jump because the competition has better, or the original game does not have what it takes to retain.

     

    Perhaps this is how old mmorpgs retains their players, instead of the players leaving enmass for new shinies.

    Of course there is always a risk that player(s) will leave for new game, because it is or is perceived as better.  This is a risk that can be minimized, but never completly avoided - also all mmorpg's eventually will be abandoned by almost all players. It's inevitable - for obvious reasons. Of course diffrence is that some will have this happening much sooner and some much later.

    Personally althrough I am a person that value - long-term (meaning of months & years and not  much hours played per day ) experience.  I just don't like investing my time, money and emotions in mmorpg type of game - if that experience can end fast for me.   For fast 'no-attachment' entertaiment - I have other type of games and other non-video-games entertaiment.

    So for me to leave from one mmorpg to another - diffrence in offering would have to be tremendeous.  It never happened to me yet.    When I left my long-term mmorpg's (had 3 of them )  It was never did so I could start playing another one. In example - I left my last long-term mmorpg 2,5 years ago - I did not start playing another one again - because I can't find one that will provide me with experience I want.   In those 2,5 years I just tested few betas practically for short amount of times.

  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Champaign, ILPosts: 1,552Member Uncommon

    I miss FFXI but what I wanted them to fix they didn't.  Copy and paste scenery needed to be fixed.  The auction house needed a three digit limit.  Chocobo whistles needed to be free to all breeders.  More content with new mobs.  Manthras and a few more races and opening cities added.

     

    Graphics did not need to be improved.  What I had proposed would have cost a lot less than making a Final Fantasy 14.


  • zwei2zwei2 SingaporePosts: 361Member
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal

    I miss FFXI but what I wanted them to fix they didn't.  Copy and paste scenery needed to be fixed.  The auction house needed a three digit limit.  Chocobo whistles needed to be free to all breeders.  More content with new mobs.  Manthras and a few more races and opening cities added.

     

    Graphics did not need to be improved.  What I had proposed would have cost a lot less than making a Final Fantasy 14.

    Hmm Square probably wants existing players to gradually migrate to FF14, thus not much fixes and upgrades is done to FFXI. And it did not go as planned for FF14.

     

    Also, that is the thing with games. Naturally, an mmorpg is not a static single player games, where what you bought is what you get, except for patches. An mmorpg ideally improves itself throughout the years,  though some players do stand with their game even if the game stalls for a LONG time without improvement. (Vanguard is one famous example, before the f2p conversion)

     

    Maybe you should go back and try FFXI. The magic may just happen to ignite for you image

    The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.

  • SulaaSulaa nPosts: 1,151Member Common

    @Jemcrystal & zwei2

    About retirning to mmorpg's and 'fixing things' :    Those mmorpg's I played for longer time, never fixed reasons why I left.  When I checked them some time after I left - I did usually found out that developers went even further with type of changes that were reasons for me to leave or at best left them unfixed.

  • MMOPapaMMOPapa Strasburg, VAPosts: 121Member

    I'm still loyal to Tetris.

     

    Longest I ever stayed loyal to a game was WoW for seven years... aside from that? One year here... two years here... but never loyal. For example? Right now I play about four games at the same time... I have no reason to be dedicated to a game because they are just that easy and targeted toward the 'casual' market. I can literally experience the "end-game" for all four games and only play maybe two days out of the week... if that. It's sad for players like me who WANT to become involved with a game, who want immersion... give me something to dedicate myself to and I will give you dedication.

    image

  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Chicago, ILPosts: 2,231Member Uncommon

    The only games I can be considered "loyal to" have been taken from me (SWG and CoH).  I'd still be in either one of them--or both--if they were still around.

    But the fact that they aren't around tells me that loyalty isn't worth having anymore.  There's no use investing time and money into something if it just goes *poof* whenever a producer feels like it.  And since the producers are under no obligation to be loyal to me, what possible reason can I have to be loyal to a producer?

    Veteran rewards?  What good are veteran rewards when they take the game away?  Pre-order rewards?  What good are they once the game closes?  Indeed, no good deed goes unpunished in MMO-land, no dollar goes unwasted, and every deep affection is mirrored by deep regret, once the publisher chews you up and spits you out.

    Therefore, I think the healthiest thing to be, in this day and age, is mercenary and thrifty.  It's best to save money and concern for things that last, not things that get taken away.

    __________________________
    "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
    --Arcken

    "...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
    --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

    "It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
    --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  • usuckmmorpgcomusuckmmorpgcom c, KYPosts: 1,348Member
    I have an old loyalty to UO. I still carry an active sub even though I almost never play.
  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon

    Runescape for me. It was my first so it will always hold a special place in my memories. I did once return to it between games but found that I was too into it and doing it more than work so I stopped myself.

    Agreed on the toilet paper treatment of games now. I think the game creators expect it, I see a cycle where they release knowing there are issues and if they aren't quick fixes they continue on their new game. That way everyone is always under the impression that they are playing the newest and most trendy things though - in truth - the structure was just reused from the last game and really only the display is different. Similar in the way a website can have content with different styles to change the site. Good example of that is found clicking around zen links to see the same content restyled. http://www.csszengarden.com/

    For this reason of restyling with the same concepts  (reusable objects), quest, loot, kill, pvp, gear etc. , I don't expect anything innovative from those "shops".

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Istaria for me I guess, although I occasional still play eq. But whenever I want something a bit different and slower I play istaria so my sub continues whether I play or not.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways ChittagongPosts: 1,032Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zwei2

    So, with a whole slew of mmorpgs out there, are there any players now still loyal to their one original old game, most probably pay to play? Sure everyone can have occasional flings with new free games, and owning those buy to play games, but what is it compared to your one game that you are truely dedicated on?

     

    A decade or 2 ago, when Neverwinter AOL was the GAME, people had no other choice to select from, so paying $5-$10 hourly, they get to be dazzled by the 2D, 320 by 240 pixels and played nonstop, as they got to actually interact with other real players rather then AI.

     

    Then, Meridian 59, Ultima Online, Everquest, Asheron's Call and so forth started appearing in the late 90s, charging by subscription fee instead. Note though, it was still dial-up period, so cost of internet connection is high. Choices were more, but MMORPGs were still rather mysterious during the "Golden Era". Only those who were hardcore into online gaming stuck to their favorite game, camping for days on a rare loot, forming guilds and alliances, scheming to become the richest virtually etc. It gives a sense of accomplishment.

     

    Fast forward to now, where the fad is f2p and b2p. With no obligation to pay (for b2p games, no subscription fee), players jump around like testing hookers/gigolos (I know, it is not a good analogy, but sadly it is kind of true), and ended up getting lost,  penniless,  cheated, made used of,  frustrated, burnouted, and random crapload of STDs... er... computer viruses.

     

    Anyway, for me, rather then seeking the one true game and getting burnout, I do feel I am loyal to Everquest, to some extent. I did not have a subscriptios, and only bought some station cash stuff like extra mercenary slot, but whenever I wanted to play an mmorpg, Everquest will always be first in queue. Yes, bad graphics, bad animation, bad sound effects etc, but to a loyal player, all these will not matter... at least not much lol.

    actually that is the perfect analogy to the current situation. just read posts in this forum and you know that is the perfect  comparison. i wanted to write the same thing in another post but was afraid i was gonna get a ban hammer so did not. you can also add "slavery" to the list, the way people waste day and night in f2p games grinding 'in game currency' just to buy even a 1$ worth of cash shop item for huge price can not be anything far from slavery.

    i want an open world, no phasing, no instancing.i want meaningful owpvp.i want player driven economy.i want meaningful crafting.i want awesome exploration, a sense of thrill.i want ow housing with a meaningful effect on my entire gameplay experience, not just some instanced crap.i want all of these free of cost, i don't wanna pay you a cent, game devs can eat grass and continue developing game for me.
    Seems like that is the current consensus of western mmo players.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon

    Yes because calling a game people consciously and willingly choose to play, knowing full well the payment model, and knowing both the cost and description of an item before they choose to buy said item or not buy said item can be called slavery.

    Congratulations you win the stupidest post of the year award.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,857Member Uncommon
    I was extremely loyal to FFXI for 6 years, to the point of hating every other MMO for no good reason.  That kind of loyalty isn't healthy and leads to accepting sub-par content and broken mechanics for years.
  • HarafnirHarafnir VikingvillePosts: 1,324Member Uncommon
    still playing AO, since beta. Not my first, but the one I felt most at home in so I stayed. the setting... the music... the freedom of character creation. Still unequaled.

    "This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
    It should be thrown with great force"

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,734Member Uncommon

    Definitely not.  I felt the first ~10 MMORPGs I tried, in the genre's infancy, were crap.  Empty games with weak gameplay and heavy timesinks.

    Some days I wonder whether an early MMORPG was someone's first videogame ever, and if that's a key factor.  Because if you didn't understand how truly empty those early MMORPGs were, it would be easier to sucker you into them.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • sibs4455sibs4455 manchesterPosts: 357Member
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    I still play CnC Renegade every now and then.

     

    somewhere in a forgotten basement in what was once Westwood office, a dusty plastic cover protects an old, yellowing Pentium 2, with a faint light slowly blinking...and that is probably why the servers are still up.

    Red-Alert and the Aftermath expansion in my opnion were the best from Westwood Studios, mid 90's were fun playing these types of games on the internet.

    I still play my brother at Aftermath once or twice aweek , these games are free to play and download, the old ones are always the best.

  • AcidonAcidon Salem, ORPosts: 797Member

    For those of us that pretty much started with EverQuest (BBS Door Games not included), you really can't go back.  They have changed the basic mechanics to the point that it's just a shell of its former self.

    That said, after resorting to other avenues, from time to time I now have the ability to truly go back to how things used to be.

    The new EQ may as well be a different game entirely.

     

    They say you can never go home..  And for some of us it's true.

     

    So I really have no choice but to say "no".  I am not still loyal to the game that really started it all for me.

    Playing: H1Z1, The Crew, Defiance, APB:Reloaded
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  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member

    I remember fondly my times in UO,Earth and Beyond,EQ and DAoC.I remember fondly MMORPGs after that like CoX and vanilla WoW.But I do not pine for them I have moved on to other games and other things.

    Though I've mostly moved away from the MMORPG genre because the shift to F2P, freemium and additional RMTs business models has created game design that I do not enjoy and break immersion for me personally.

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