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2M F2P vs. 1.7M Reconciling the numbers.

gervaise1gervaise1 .Posts: 2,065Member Uncommon

EA announced 1.7M new F2P accounts in their quarterly results. This has to be accurate.

But towards the end of March Bioware revealed that they had 2M new F2P accounts.

Assuming that Bioware were being truthful the only way I can reconcile the two numbers is if 300k F2P accounts became subscribers in April when Makeb came out. (The $10 discount being close to the cost of a 1 month sub).

As EA also said that the game had "just under 500k" this would also mean that prior to Makeb the game had c. 200k subs.

NOTE: only assumption here is that Bioware were telling the truth.

 

EA also said that since they went F2P they had doubled their monthly revenue.

ASSUMPTION:  the game had 200k subs prior to going F2P and an average of 200k from December through March.

- So: pre-F2P revenue would have been c. 200k x $15 or $3M / month.

- For December through March revenue would have been (200k x $15) + cash shop. Or $12M + cash shop over 4 months.

- In April revenue jumps to: Subs: 500k x $15; Makeb purchases: 500kk x $10. Or $12.5M + cash shop.

- Total revenue in 5 months: $24.5M + cash shop or a monthly average of $4.9M + cash shop.

So doubling their revenue would mean that the cash shop would have to have generated (at least) $5.5M in 5 months. $1M per month average. 50c. a month based on 2M accounts or $10 over 5 months based on 100k people paying. (Zynga's metrics suggest that only 5% of F2P account pay anything, most play for free!).

So this works with what EA and Bioware have said.

 

TWEAK: the game probably lost some subscribers after it went F2P. If it had c. 260k prior to going F2P then this would have been $4M revenue per month. And to double revenue EA would have to have made $15.5M from the cash shop in 5 months. Say $3M per month or an average of $1.50 based on 2M accounts per month or $30 total from 100k users. Probably something between the two extremes: F2P accounts spending $5 to get preferred and then others buying packs etc.

 

I think I am happy with the number of subs dropping when the game went F2P and the cash shop bringing in more money but these sort of numbers seem to work with what Bioware and EA have said.

«1

Comments

  • tintilinictintilinic aPosts: 283Member
    1 small mistake, Zynga said 5% of active players who play the game, not 5% of every account ever made.
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    The number of subscriptions they started with depends on the number of people they count as abandons. People who sign up, but who don't play or stop playing the game.

    X is the number of subscriptions they started with. It was claimed to be 0.5M people, so 0.5M is the maximum value that X can have.
    Y is the number of people who signed up, but who abandoned.
    2M is the number of accounts created.
    1.7M is the number of F2P accounts currently.
    0.5M is the number of subscription accounts currently.

    X + 2M - Y = (1.7M + 0.5M) = 2.2M

    If X is 0.2M, then Y has to be counted as 0. That means 0.3M people who weren't previously subscribers decided to be subscribers.

    Using this equation and substituting values for Y from 0M to 0.3M you can get an idea of how many subscribers they had to start with. Any number between 0 and 0.3M people will work. If Y is more than 0.3M people, then X becomes greater than 0.5M, which is about what EA said they had so we can't exceed 0.3M abandons.

    There is some wiggle room because there is some time that passed between Mar. 21, when they announced 2M signups and the recent announcement of the number of people they have playing. I don't think that would be a huge number.

    Have fun.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Winchester, MAPosts: 937Member

    It could be as OP describes. Who knows. Corporate press releases are more of an art form then anything.

    When Bioware said they had 2 million new ftp accounts, they also said SWTOR was the number 2 sub-based MMO in the Western World. Well if EVE has 500k+ paying sub accounts, well that doesn't really jibe.

    In fact EA in general has been more spinster then anything in regard to SWTOR's sub numbers.

    We have 1.7 million subs (turns out a large chunk were in their free month) SWTOR is the fastest growing MMO in history.

    To, we have again, 1.7 million subs and growing (huh, how is it growing and have the same sub count?).

    To, we have 1.3 million subs but stabilizing (even after giving everyone a free month?)

    To, we have between one million and 500 k subs, but stabilizing. (That's a big range.)

    To, subs don't matter anymore in a FTP game. (Then why is it a FTP option with an emphasis on subscribing. Are you sure subs don't count anymore?)

    To, we are the 2nd biggest Western Sub-based MMO in the market. (But you said subs don't matter anymore, and it turns out you have less subs then EVE which has 500k +>)

    To, we have less then 500k subs and growing. (Always a shrinking number. I don't think the game can take anymore growth or stabilization by your definition of the term.)

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,661Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tiefighter25

    It could be as OP describes. Who knows. Corporate press releases are more of an art form then anything.

    When Bioware said they had 2 million new ftp accounts, they also said SWTOR was the number 2 sub-based MMO in the Western World. Well if EVE has 500k+ paying sub accounts, well that doesn't really jibe.

    In fact EA in general has been more spinster then anything in regard to SWTOR's sub numbers.

    We have 1.7 million subs (turns out a large chunk were in their free month) SWTOR is the fastest growing MMO in history.

    To, we have again, 1.7 million subs and growing (huh, how is it growing and have the same sub count?).

    To, we have 1.3 million subs but stabilizing (even after giving everyone a free month?)

    To, we have between one million and 500 k subs, but stabilizing. (That's a big range.)

    To, subs don't matter anymore in a FTP game. (Then why is it a FTP option with an emphasis on subscribing. Are you sure subs don't count anymore?)

    To, we are the 2nd biggest Western Sub-based MMO in the market. (But you said subs don't matter anymore, and it turns out you have less subs then EVE which has 500k +>)

    To, we have less then 500k subs and growing. (Always a shrinking number. I don't think the game can take anymore growth or stabilization by your definition of the term.)

    Wait, I thought Eve had about 300k subs? Do you have a source for Eve's 500k?

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
    Originally posted by fivoroth

    Wait, I thought Eve had about 300k subs? Do you have a source for Eve's 500k?

    It hit 500k a couple months back. The biggest issue with the Eve numbers though is the sheer number of players with multiple paid accounts. Ie paid accounts continue to rise, average concurrent user to not.

  • Skooma2Skooma2 Glenview, ILPosts: 694Member Uncommon

    Allow me to state at the outset that I am not a troll.  I have a question that perhaps can be answered by the community.

     

    Why do any of you care how many subs a particular MMO has?  Unless you are 1) playing a game teetering on the edge of a shutdown cliff,or, 2) are a shareholder of the company at issue,  what possible difference can a game's sub numbers mean to you?

    Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by fivoroth
    Originally posted by tiefighter25

    It could be as OP describes. Who knows. Corporate press releases are more of an art form then anything.

    When Bioware said they had 2 million new ftp accounts, they also said SWTOR was the number 2 sub-based MMO in the Western World. Well if EVE has 500k+ paying sub accounts, well that doesn't really jibe.

    In fact EA in general has been more spinster then anything in regard to SWTOR's sub numbers.

    We have 1.7 million subs (turns out a large chunk were in their free month) SWTOR is the fastest growing MMO in history.

    To, we have again, 1.7 million subs and growing (huh, how is it growing and have the same sub count?).

    To, we have 1.3 million subs but stabilizing (even after giving everyone a free month?)

    To, we have between one million and 500 k subs, but stabilizing. (That's a big range.)

    To, subs don't matter anymore in a FTP game. (Then why is it a FTP option with an emphasis on subscribing. Are you sure subs don't count anymore?)

    To, we are the 2nd biggest Western Sub-based MMO in the market. (But you said subs don't matter anymore, and it turns out you have less subs then EVE which has 500k +>)

    To, we have less then 500k subs and growing. (Always a shrinking number. I don't think the game can take anymore growth or stabilization by your definition of the term.)

    Wait, I thought Eve had about 300k subs? Do you have a source for Eve's 500k?

    http://www.ccpgames.com/en/public-relations/press-releases/article/74405/eve-online-surpasses-500-000-subscribers-worldwide

    CCP are quite open about Subscriber numbers, you can also see concurrent accounts logged in on the client log in

  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,395Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Skooma2

    Allow me to state at the outset that I am not a troll.  I have a question that perhaps can be answered by the community.

     

    Why do any of you care how many subs a particular MMO has?  Unless you are 1) playing a game teetering on the edge of a shutdown cliff,or, 2) are a shareholder of the company at issue,  what possible difference can a game's sub numbers mean to you?

    Generally, the sub numbers and cash shop sales affect an MMO's budget, so a game that's doing great will have more updates than a game that's barely alive. If TOR's sub numbers keep falling and F2P fails to make up for it, Makeb may be the last big update it gets.

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,601Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Scalpless
    Originally posted by Skooma2 Allow me to state at the outset that I am not a troll.  I have a question that perhaps can be answered by the community.   Why do any of you care how many subs a particular MMO has?  Unless you are 1) playing a game teetering on the edge of a shutdown cliff,or, 2) are a shareholder of the company at issue,  what possible difference can a game's sub numbers mean to you?
    Generally, the sub numbers and cash shop sales affect an MMO's budget, so a game that's doing great will have more updates than a game that's barely alive. If TOR's sub numbers keep falling and F2P fails to make up for it, Makeb may be the last big update it gets.

    EA also announced that revenue is up.


    So, either the next update will be bigger than Makeb or EA will just pocket the cash and future updates will be similar in scope.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by fivoroth

    Wait, I thought Eve had about 300k subs? Do you have a source for Eve's 500k?

    They started to add chinese server population(who knows how that is counted) into their sub numbers.

    Go figure...

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by fivoroth

    Wait, I thought Eve had about 300k subs? Do you have a source for Eve's 500k?

     

    They started to add chinese server population(who knows how that is counted) into their sub numbers.

    Go figure...

    I imagine they count each monthly subscription (the only way to pay) as 1 subscription. Simple really.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by RefMinor

    I imagine they count each monthly subscription (the only way to pay) as 1 subscription. Simple really.

    If only china server has same payment model...

    All is so simple when you do not put much thought into it.

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by RefMinor

    I imagine they count each monthly subscription (the only way to pay) as 1 subscription. Simple really.

     

    If only china server has same payment model...

    All is so simple when you do not put much thought into it.

    The Chinese server uses prepaid game cards, minimum of 1 month at a time.

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    Originally posted by fivoroth
    Originally posted by tiefighter25

    It could be as OP describes. Who knows. Corporate press releases are more of an art form then anything.

    When Bioware said they had 2 million new ftp accounts, they also said SWTOR was the number 2 sub-based MMO in the Western World. Well if EVE has 500k+ paying sub accounts, well that doesn't really jibe.

    In fact EA in general has been more spinster then anything in regard to SWTOR's sub numbers.

    We have 1.7 million subs (turns out a large chunk were in their free month) SWTOR is the fastest growing MMO in history.

    To, we have again, 1.7 million subs and growing (huh, how is it growing and have the same sub count?).

    To, we have 1.3 million subs but stabilizing (even after giving everyone a free month?)

    To, we have between one million and 500 k subs, but stabilizing. (That's a big range.)

    To, subs don't matter anymore in a FTP game. (Then why is it a FTP option with an emphasis on subscribing. Are you sure subs don't count anymore?)

    To, we are the 2nd biggest Western Sub-based MMO in the market. (But you said subs don't matter anymore, and it turns out you have less subs then EVE which has 500k +>)

    To, we have less then 500k subs and growing. (Always a shrinking number. I don't think the game can take anymore growth or stabilization by your definition of the term.)

    Wait, I thought Eve had about 300k subs? Do you have a source for Eve's 500k?

    http://www.ccpgames.com/en/public-relations/press-releases/article/74405/eve-online-surpasses-500-000-subscribers-worldwide

    CCP are quite open about Subscriber numbers, you can also see concurrent accounts logged in on the client log in

     

    Remember EVE has a Chinese client and that number is worldwide and did not EA say TOR was #2 in the West?

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by Calerxes
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    Originally posted by fivoroth
    Originally posted by tiefighter25

    It could be as OP describes. Who knows. Corporate press releases are more of an art form then anything.

    When Bioware said they had 2 million new ftp accounts, they also said SWTOR was the number 2 sub-based MMO in the Western World. Well if EVE has 500k+ paying sub accounts, well that doesn't really jibe.

    In fact EA in general has been more spinster then anything in regard to SWTOR's sub numbers.

    We have 1.7 million subs (turns out a large chunk were in their free month) SWTOR is the fastest growing MMO in history.

    To, we have again, 1.7 million subs and growing (huh, how is it growing and have the same sub count?).

    To, we have 1.3 million subs but stabilizing (even after giving everyone a free month?)

    To, we have between one million and 500 k subs, but stabilizing. (That's a big range.)

    To, subs don't matter anymore in a FTP game. (Then why is it a FTP option with an emphasis on subscribing. Are you sure subs don't count anymore?)

    To, we are the 2nd biggest Western Sub-based MMO in the market. (But you said subs don't matter anymore, and it turns out you have less subs then EVE which has 500k +>)

    To, we have less then 500k subs and growing. (Always a shrinking number. I don't think the game can take anymore growth or stabilization by your definition of the term.)

    Wait, I thought Eve had about 300k subs? Do you have a source for Eve's 500k?

    http://www.ccpgames.com/en/public-relations/press-releases/article/74405/eve-online-surpasses-500-000-subscribers-worldwide

    CCP are quite open about Subscriber numbers, you can also see concurrent accounts logged in on the client log in

     

    Remember EVE has a Chinese client and that number is worldwide.

    Correct, the concurrent numbers on the western client are only for Western players, not sure of the relevance of that to the subscriber numbers openly published by CCP though. My point was that CCP are open about it all.

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    Originally posted by Calerxes
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    Originally posted by fivoroth
    Originally posted by tiefighter25

    It could be as OP describes. Who knows. Corporate press releases are more of an art form then anything.

    When Bioware said they had 2 million new ftp accounts, they also said SWTOR was the number 2 sub-based MMO in the Western World. Well if EVE has 500k+ paying sub accounts, well that doesn't really jibe.

    In fact EA in general has been more spinster then anything in regard to SWTOR's sub numbers.

    We have 1.7 million subs (turns out a large chunk were in their free month) SWTOR is the fastest growing MMO in history.

    To, we have again, 1.7 million subs and growing (huh, how is it growing and have the same sub count?).

    To, we have 1.3 million subs but stabilizing (even after giving everyone a free month?)

    To, we have between one million and 500 k subs, but stabilizing. (That's a big range.)

    To, subs don't matter anymore in a FTP game. (Then why is it a FTP option with an emphasis on subscribing. Are you sure subs don't count anymore?)

    To, we are the 2nd biggest Western Sub-based MMO in the market. (But you said subs don't matter anymore, and it turns out you have less subs then EVE which has 500k +>)

    To, we have less then 500k subs and growing. (Always a shrinking number. I don't think the game can take anymore growth or stabilization by your definition of the term.)

    Wait, I thought Eve had about 300k subs? Do you have a source for Eve's 500k?

    http://www.ccpgames.com/en/public-relations/press-releases/article/74405/eve-online-surpasses-500-000-subscribers-worldwide

    CCP are quite open about Subscriber numbers, you can also see concurrent accounts logged in on the client log in

     

    Remember EVE has a Chinese client and that number is worldwide.

    Correct, the concurrent numbers on the western client are only for Western players, not sure of the relevance of that to the subscriber numbers openly published by CCP though. My point was that CCP are open about it all.

     

    So CCP are open about their numbers by saying they've surpassed 500k and EA are not when the say they have nearly 500k?

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • simpliussimplius nakskovPosts: 1,042Member Uncommon

    if i log into EVE, i can see how many players are online ,,every time

    compare that to EAs quarterly reports, which are intentionally vague

    also note, that EA numbers appear to be beefed up

    cccp may do the same,,but not to the same extent

    one company have good numbers,,and theyre proud, to show them

    the other company have bad numbers,,and what do they do?

  • gervaise1gervaise1 .Posts: 2,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tiefighter25

    It could be as OP describes. Who knows. Corporate press releases are more of an art form then anything.

    When Bioware said they had 2 million new ftp accounts, they also said SWTOR was the number 2 sub-based MMO in the Western World. Well if EVE has 500k+ paying sub accounts, well that doesn't really jibe.

    In fact EA in general has been more spinster then anything in regard to SWTOR's sub numbers.

    We have 1.7 million subs (turns out a large chunk were in their free month) SWTOR is the fastest growing MMO in history.

    To, we have again, 1.7 million subs and growing (huh, how is it growing and have the same sub count?).

    To, we have 1.3 million subs but stabilizing (even after giving everyone a free month?)

    To, we have between one million and 500 k subs, but stabilizing. (That's a big range.)

    To, subs don't matter anymore in a FTP game. (Then why is it a FTP option with an emphasis on subscribing. Are you sure subs don't count anymore?)

    To, we are the 2nd biggest Western Sub-based MMO in the market. (But you said subs don't matter anymore, and it turns out you have less subs then EVE which has 500k +>)

    To, we have less then 500k subs and growing. (Always a shrinking number. I don't think the game can take anymore growth or stabilization by your definition of the term.)

     Agree.

    If an account changed from F2P to subscription however those accounts would no longer be counted as F2P - and that seemed a pretty simple explanation to me. Exec asks someone to print out todays F2P account number and minion presses the button. The fact that no one realised 1.7M was less than the 2M number plastered anywhere it would stick a month earlier ... whoops! 

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by simplius

    if i log into EVE, i can see how many players are online ,,every time

    compare that to EAs quarterly reports, which are intentionally vague

    also note, that EA numbers appear to be beefed up

    cccp may do the same,,but not to the same extent

    one company have good numbers,,and theyre proud, to show them

    the other company have bad numbers,,and what do they do?

     

    If I log into TOR I can see server load on the server screen and when I play I can /who for all players playing, it takes a bit more effort but I last did it (yes I'm sad) when i recently resubbed to TOR after a 8 month absence. Server, The Progenitor RP server EU,  server load Heavy, the player concurrent logins on server, 4598, both factions counted Sunday evening peak time. Every Planet has how many players are on the planet in the top left corner with friends and guildies online, you can search OP's, FP's, WZ's, class, race etc.. can you do that in EvE? The info is there for all to see if you want to, so do you want to its free?

     

    NEXT!

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • gervaise1gervaise1 .Posts: 2,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by Scalpless

    Originally posted by Skooma2 Allow me to state at the outset that I am not a troll.  I have a question that perhaps can be answered by the community.   Why do any of you care how many subs a particular MMO has?  Unless you are 1) playing a game teetering on the edge of a shutdown cliff,or, 2) are a shareholder of the company at issue,  what possible difference can a game's sub numbers mean to you?
    Generally, the sub numbers and cash shop sales affect an MMO's budget, so a game that's doing great will have more updates than a game that's barely alive. If TOR's sub numbers keep falling and F2P fails to make up for it, Makeb may be the last big update it gets.
    EA also announced that revenue is up.

     


    So, either the next update will be bigger than Makeb or EA will just pocket the cash and future updates will be similar in scope.

    Yep.

     

    To be fair though it does depends on what Makeb cost. They probably spent capital - i.e. new money as opposed to revenue to produce Makeb. And some of Makeb may have been finished before staff were cut. 

    Execs did say that the next update would depend on Makeb however so if Makeb has sold around 500k (based on above numbers) then its revenue would be $5M and - allowing for EA's gross profit target of 70% - that would set the budget for the next update at $3M.

    If 300k people resubbed to get Makeb then a more accurate number for Makeb's revenue would be $9.5M - which would support a higher budget of c. $5M. Would depend on how EA count things.

    A budget of $3-5M is not to shabby however and would support a reasonable headcount.

  • gervaise1gervaise1 .Posts: 2,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Calerxes
    Originally posted by simplius

    if i log into EVE, i can see how many players are online ,,every time

    compare that to EAs quarterly reports, which are intentionally vague

    also note, that EA numbers appear to be beefed up

    cccp may do the same,,but not to the same extent

    one company have good numbers,,and theyre proud, to show them

    the other company have bad numbers,,and what do they do?

     

    If I log into TOR I can see server load on the server screen and when I play I can /who for all players playing, it takes a bit more effort but I last did it (yes I'm sad) when i recently resubbed to TOR after a 8 month absence. Server, The Progenitor RP server EU,  server load Heavy, the player concurrent logins on server, 4598, both factions counted Sunday evening peak time. Every Planet has how many players are on the planet in the top left corner with friends and guildies online, you can search OP's, FP's, WZ's, class, race etc.. can you do that in EvE? The info is there for all to see if you want to, so do you want to its free?

     

    NEXT!

    err .. yes. You do know how many servers and instances Eve has yes? CCP also produce regular figures for "subs" - and like Blizzard they count an active monthly game card as a sub.

    EA brings comments about its numbers upon itself. As tiefighter25 mentioned last February EA announced in their quarterly report that SWTOR had 1.7M subscribers but in March revealed that "just about half of those" were in their free month. Now counted people in their free month is fine but that wasn't how EA pitched the number. Then last summer they gave all subscribers a free month - which almost certainly resulted in their 1M to 500k count. They had padded the number but were legally obligated not to mislead investors - which they would have done if they had suggested that the game back then still had 1M.

    And now at the end of March Bioware said they had 2M new F2P accounts and yet this week they only have 1.7M. Can they not count?

    I have suggested a simple explanation for the difference; the alternative is that Bioware are in the business of being very creative ... with their numbers.

  • SulaaSulaa nPosts: 1,151Member Common

    I had one Swtor account from beta  and a second account made after Swtor went freemium (forgot password and secret question to first account)  - when I tried to check if it's good enough to play it like single player game for free.     So 2 accounts that did not bring even one cent and will not bring EA any money ever,  those accounts even have not attracted other players to spend money since I was using them for short time, at odd hours and not groping. 

    I wonder how many of those 2 mln accounts are accounts like that - created and dumped after few hours or few days.

     

    Companies that use f2p, freemium of b2p+cs model for their MMOs need to start providing average PCU (peak concurrent users) per month in official investor reports - like many Asian companies on Asian f2p market.    All those "combined account numbers" is an informateion that barely tell anything.     There are browser games that were closed down because of low revenues - that had millions of created accounts. 

  • simpliussimplius nakskovPosts: 1,042Member Uncommon
    they should try, and put some of that "creativity" in their games instead
  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    The cross street nearest to my house has over 100,000 users. I just looked out there and saw 3 cars. The F2P account population counting is ridiculously irrelevent.  

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • simpliussimplius nakskovPosts: 1,042Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Calerxes
    Originally posted by simplius

    if i log into EVE, i can see how many players are online ,,every time

    compare that to EAs quarterly reports, which are intentionally vague

    also note, that EA numbers appear to be beefed up

    cccp may do the same,,but not to the same extent

    one company have good numbers,,and theyre proud, to show them

    the other company have bad numbers,,and what do they do?

     

    If I log into TOR I can see server load on the server screen and when I play I can /who for all players playing, it takes a bit more effort but I last did it (yes I'm sad) when i recently resubbed to TOR after a 8 month absence. Server, The Progenitor RP server EU,  server load Heavy, the player concurrent logins on server, 4598, both factions counted Sunday evening peak time. Every Planet has how many players are on the planet in the top left corner with friends and guildies online, you can search OP's, FP's, WZ's, class, race etc.. can you do that in EvE? The info is there for all to see if you want to, so do you want to its free?

     

    NEXT!

    no thanx, im a carebear, so i dont play EVE

    but i do have higher confidence in ccp numbers, than in those from EA

    hell,,at this point,,i would believe in hitler, rather than EA

     

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