Originally posted by Muppetier Think a lot of players might discover that creating your own foundry content is more rewarding and enjoyable than playing other peoples content.
This. There are already people spending 30-40 hours of effort to create foundry content because that's what they enjoy. One of the greatest joys of D&D is to create worlds of your own making and the foundry allows you to do that.
OP you should really stop practicing your craft on yourself. Player created content overall is a great thing as it allows not only floating turds but also genuine works of art to crop up.
To put it more simply: To anyone who thinks player created content is shit I will point out the simple logic within the following statement: Developers are people and people are capable of creating shit, would you prefer one team of professional devs creating content or hundreds maybe even thousands of independent developers some of whom are utter shit, some decent, some as good as the official devs and a scant few even better?
True, but the problem I see though is that they didn't allow enough freedom to the players to create content. Being instanced based and having to run through a lobby of sorts to the quest giver kills the immersion which is a critical element if they want their Foundry to be really successful. Persistent Worlds should be a top priority as if they can do that then I think would greatly improve the game along with DM hosted event capability.
Neverwinter was suppose to be a great appeal to RPers and UGC creators and yet they hosed em with not giving them full reins.
User generated content. How great ! Innovative , right ?
Except it never worked. Why ?
Every game it was implemented , it was straight away used to power exploit the game.
Just one day after Neverwinter was launched, you had Foundry missions that you can level up to 4 levels in 15 minutes.
So what Cryptic does (as they havent predicted such behavior ? After having it in two previous games.) they nerf all the XP and drops in Foundry missions.
Basically ruining foundry for everyone. Yes even the fun ones.
Now you can run foundry missions because you love the story. Or instead play official quests and get xp and loot.
ps
Please not claim that Foundry is not nerfed but capped. Because people tested it, and its simply nerfed - not remotely worth same xp as even simply open world area.
Foundry should have never been about the XP or the loot, it is about the story and the way the creator lays out that content for the players to enjoy. I wouldn't worry about the XP and loot nerf, many could careless.
And people playing the Foundry just for the lore n story will by FAR be the very minority. Even in NWN the modules were used by the minority. The real usage of NWN, longevity wise, was with the Persistent Worlds and people creating a living breathing world.
Keep telling yourself that the Foundry is just about the lore n story, don't be surprised when in a few months time if that the world is dead.
Originally posted by Muppetier Think a lot of players might discover that creating your own foundry content is more rewarding and enjoyable than playing other peoples content.
This. There are already people spending 30-40 hours of effort to create foundry content because that's what they enjoy. One of the greatest joys of D&D is to create worlds of your own making and the foundry allows you to do that.
No it doesn't. Foundry is just a lil substitute or a way for Cryptic to half ass content. Create a story or tell a little tale... sure. Create a world? No chance in hell, take a gander at the persistent worlds in NWN 1&2 for that, THAT is how its done n not this Foundry.
In MMO time spent = reward , if time spent=reward is bigger in doing other activity , than people will do it.
Thats just how it is.
Reward =/= only golds, exp or fat loot. There are some strange guys out there who actually cares about that RP part in MMORPG. And they used to enjoy quest story or campaign plot. For them reward = fun and enjoyment of a good tale told to them. I believe Foundry originally was ment for them.
Tell me, what is that original in skipping all the game in some room with 10 ogres to end up with another gear treadmill like in every other WoW like game?
While that may well be true, the reality is that most people are in this for the EXP and the phatest of phat loot... ^^ One would think that PWE would have known that by now. Player driven content has always been prone to these types of abuses. That and IP conflicts are one of the main reasons its usually not done in the MMO world. Or if it is, that it gets nerfed into the ground, shortly after starting.
IMO the cap should of been there all along. They have no way of really policing every quest made in the foundry. If it was left the way is was the game would just devolve into what happened in CoH before they nerfed it there. No one was in the open world. The game was just about power lvling heroes in IE.
The cap is a good way of getting rid of all the players who only wanted to go there for fast lvls and make it what it should be about. Player content. Grinding boring exploit missions doesn't pay as much per hour anymore so ppl wont waste their time doing it.
Originally posted by Betaguy The ones qqing about the nerf are the exploiters...just saying.
fact
Perhaps in part. But thats a really broad brush you are painting with there. Not everyone who is objecting is an "exploiter". Some might object, because it decreases the amount of worth while content available. Keep in mind that XP and loot ARE one of the focus points of most people. Those who say otherwise have either been drinking the kool aid, or are RP types. ^^
Originally posted by Betaguy The ones qqing about the nerf are the exploiters...just saying.
fact
Perhaps in part. But thats a really broad brush you are painting with there. Not everyone who is objecting is an "exploiter". Some might object, because it decreases the amount of worth while content available. Keep in mind that XP and loot ARE one of the focus points of most people. Those who say otherwise have either been drinking the kool aid, or are RP types. ^^
I disagree , and neither of us can "prove" our view on the majority it correct as it's pure opinion.
I can say I am confident if you posted a poll on the NW forums , and somehow made it where only people who have spent something on the game , be it 5 dollars to the 200+ founders folks , and asked should farming foundries be banned , you would have overwhelming numbers say yes.
I don't , and neither should PWE care , what the pure freeloaders want.
I've noticed a much better community overall so far in PWE , then most major games lately , and that's a good thing to me.
PWE isn't stupid , they realize more did not want to see exploiters farming mobs in cages to powerlevel than those who think it should be allowed.
They have eliminated zero WORTHWHILE content , the only thing they have eliminated is crap, farming mobs in cages content.
All the people suggesting people will play with foundry regardless of loot and rewards are deluding themselves. The point to any RPG is the loot and rewards you get as the story progresses, that's part of the mechanic. If it wasn't, there'd be no point to loot at all. Why not just get rid of it entirely? Everyone stays in the same outfit, the same level, with the same skills and with the same weapon forever! That sounds stupid for a reason; because it is.
And yet player-created content was immediately used to exploit, as it always will be. That's not Neverwinter or Cryptic's fault, that's just how people are. That's blaming Cryptic for human nature. Not their fault, but still something they should have anticipated. They attempted to reverse some of those nerfs, but it didn't actually fix anything, and almost as soon as they offered that patch players found a NEW quest that would get them to 60 within a few hours. They can't win. It's going to become just like City of Heroes where people use player-created content to grind levels, skip ALL of the game content and just grind endgame. This is an inevitability.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
The point to any RPG is the loot and rewards you get as the story progresses, that's part of the mechanic. If it wasn't, there'd be no point to loot at all. Why not just get rid of it entirely? Everyone stays in the same outfit, the same level, with the same skills and with the same weapon forever! That sounds stupid for a reason; because it is.
Maybe it's an age related issue, but the point of any rpg is to play with your buddies and have fun, it has nothing to do with loot or xp or reward (at least imo, I know everyone has different priorities). And no, what you wrote doesn't sound stupid, we had month-long sessions with only 1 or 2 fights and no loot or level up. It is called roleplaying for a reason...
And for the second part,
Originally posted by gaeanprayer
It's going to become just like City of Heroes where people use player-created content to grind levels, skip ALL of the game content and just grind endgame. This is an inevitability.
Nope, it's not inevitable, just check STO, you won't grind or powerlevel or exploit there... I cited myself numerous times around here the different approach of the Foundry and the Architect (which was indeed only a grindfest tool, sadly).
I believe Cryptic's only mistake was that they got used to the lore-friendly state of STO's Foundry. But their fast response to the issue tells clearly that they don't want to allow NW's Foundry to slide toward the Architect-way, which is good.
All the people suggesting people will play with foundry regardless of loot and rewards are deluding themselves. The point to any RPG is the loot and rewards you get as the story progresses, that's part of the mechanic. If it wasn't, there'd be no point to loot at all. Why not just get rid of it entirely? Everyone stays in the same outfit, the same level, with the same skills and with the same weapon forever! That sounds stupid for a reason; because it is.
And yet player-created content was immediately used to exploit, as it always will be. That's not Neverwinter or Cryptic's fault, that's just how people are. That's blaming Cryptic for human nature. Not their fault, but still something they should have anticipated. They attempted to reverse some of those nerfs, but it didn't actually fix anything, and almost as soon as they offered that patch players found a NEW quest that would get them to 60 within a few hours. They can't win. It's going to become just like City of Heroes where people use player-created content to grind levels, skip ALL of the game content and just grind endgame. This is an inevitability.
You and other few are missing the point.
They DIDNT eliminate loot or xps , you still get BOTH. Plenty of it actually.
They eliminated being able to FARM MOBS IN CAGES TO HIT MAX LEVEL INSTANTLY , they put in speed breakers to make it boring and not worth it to try this way.
Foundry missions still give loot , xps , daily quest diamonds and so on.
THEY ELIMINATED BEING ABLE TO EXPLOIT IT.
So again , they only people who don't like this are those who think you should be able to with zero risk farm mobs locked in cages.
Exploiters in others words.
There are tons of folks loving the foundry missions , I know its disappointing to folks who want to think everyone is a min max exploit my way instantly that there are plenty of us who are not.
All the people suggesting people will play with foundry regardless of loot and rewards are deluding themselves. The point to any RPG is the loot and rewards you get as the story progresses, that's part of the mechanic. If it wasn't, there'd be no point to loot at all. Why not just get rid of it entirely? Everyone stays in the same outfit, the same level, with the same skills and with the same weapon forever! That sounds stupid for a reason; because it is.
I play games for the story, regardless if it is a SP, MP or MMO or if it is a scripted story or a emergent one, I play games for their stories... christ I've only played EVE as long as I have due to the emergent stories weaved by players, its realism in terms of interpersonal relationships with the few spanners CCP throw into the mix from time to time are what makes that game worthwhile for me now that I've hit a plateau in where I can go in-game (I am focused on smaller more agile ships and am quickly running out of options, soon I will be training fluff skills for secondary stuff and avoiding capital ship skills like the plague).
If NWO foundry provides quality content but not so much in the way of rewards I'll still play the foundry quests because seeing what people create in terms of stories is a far more interesting prospect for me than getting the next shiny bit (shiny items hold some appeal do not get me wrong but they are not my focus, not my axis mundi in the games I play ).
Comments
This. There are already people spending 30-40 hours of effort to create foundry content because that's what they enjoy. One of the greatest joys of D&D is to create worlds of your own making and the foundry allows you to do that.
The Enlightened take things Lightly
So what does it concern YOU? I dont like power leveling and i want to do quests in different zones SO i skip foundry exploiting.
Leveling is slower but its fun , if you dont want it why the hell do you complain since you can skip it ?
True, but the problem I see though is that they didn't allow enough freedom to the players to create content. Being instanced based and having to run through a lobby of sorts to the quest giver kills the immersion which is a critical element if they want their Foundry to be really successful. Persistent Worlds should be a top priority as if they can do that then I think would greatly improve the game along with DM hosted event capability.
Neverwinter was suppose to be a great appeal to RPers and UGC creators and yet they hosed em with not giving them full reins.
And people playing the Foundry just for the lore n story will by FAR be the very minority. Even in NWN the modules were used by the minority. The real usage of NWN, longevity wise, was with the Persistent Worlds and people creating a living breathing world.
Keep telling yourself that the Foundry is just about the lore n story, don't be surprised when in a few months time if that the world is dead.
No it doesn't. Foundry is just a lil substitute or a way for Cryptic to half ass content. Create a story or tell a little tale... sure. Create a world? No chance in hell, take a gander at the persistent worlds in NWN 1&2 for that, THAT is how its done n not this Foundry.
While that may well be true, the reality is that most people are in this for the EXP and the phatest of phat loot... ^^ One would think that PWE would have known that by now. Player driven content has always been prone to these types of abuses. That and IP conflicts are one of the main reasons its usually not done in the MMO world. Or if it is, that it gets nerfed into the ground, shortly after starting.
fact
IMO the cap should of been there all along. They have no way of really policing every quest made in the foundry. If it was left the way is was the game would just devolve into what happened in CoH before they nerfed it there. No one was in the open world. The game was just about power lvling heroes in IE.
The cap is a good way of getting rid of all the players who only wanted to go there for fast lvls and make it what it should be about. Player content. Grinding boring exploit missions doesn't pay as much per hour anymore so ppl wont waste their time doing it.
Perhaps in part. But thats a really broad brush you are painting with there. Not everyone who is objecting is an "exploiter". Some might object, because it decreases the amount of worth while content available. Keep in mind that XP and loot ARE one of the focus points of most people. Those who say otherwise have either been drinking the kool aid, or are RP types. ^^
I disagree , and neither of us can "prove" our view on the majority it correct as it's pure opinion.
I can say I am confident if you posted a poll on the NW forums , and somehow made it where only people who have spent something on the game , be it 5 dollars to the 200+ founders folks , and asked should farming foundries be banned , you would have overwhelming numbers say yes.
I don't , and neither should PWE care , what the pure freeloaders want.
I've noticed a much better community overall so far in PWE , then most major games lately , and that's a good thing to me.
PWE isn't stupid , they realize more did not want to see exploiters farming mobs in cages to powerlevel than those who think it should be allowed.
They have eliminated zero WORTHWHILE content , the only thing they have eliminated is crap, farming mobs in cages content.
All the people suggesting people will play with foundry regardless of loot and rewards are deluding themselves. The point to any RPG is the loot and rewards you get as the story progresses, that's part of the mechanic. If it wasn't, there'd be no point to loot at all. Why not just get rid of it entirely? Everyone stays in the same outfit, the same level, with the same skills and with the same weapon forever! That sounds stupid for a reason; because it is.
And yet player-created content was immediately used to exploit, as it always will be. That's not Neverwinter or Cryptic's fault, that's just how people are. That's blaming Cryptic for human nature. Not their fault, but still something they should have anticipated. They attempted to reverse some of those nerfs, but it didn't actually fix anything, and almost as soon as they offered that patch players found a NEW quest that would get them to 60 within a few hours. They can't win. It's going to become just like City of Heroes where people use player-created content to grind levels, skip ALL of the game content and just grind endgame. This is an inevitability.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Maybe it's an age related issue, but the point of any rpg is to play with your buddies and have fun, it has nothing to do with loot or xp or reward (at least imo, I know everyone has different priorities). And no, what you wrote doesn't sound stupid, we had month-long sessions with only 1 or 2 fights and no loot or level up. It is called roleplaying for a reason...
And for the second part,
Nope, it's not inevitable, just check STO, you won't grind or powerlevel or exploit there... I cited myself numerous times around here the different approach of the Foundry and the Architect (which was indeed only a grindfest tool, sadly).
I believe Cryptic's only mistake was that they got used to the lore-friendly state of STO's Foundry. But their fast response to the issue tells clearly that they don't want to allow NW's Foundry to slide toward the Architect-way, which is good.
You and other few are missing the point.
They DIDNT eliminate loot or xps , you still get BOTH. Plenty of it actually.
They eliminated being able to FARM MOBS IN CAGES TO HIT MAX LEVEL INSTANTLY , they put in speed breakers to make it boring and not worth it to try this way.
Foundry missions still give loot , xps , daily quest diamonds and so on.
THEY ELIMINATED BEING ABLE TO EXPLOIT IT.
So again , they only people who don't like this are those who think you should be able to with zero risk farm mobs locked in cages.
Exploiters in others words.
There are tons of folks loving the foundry missions , I know its disappointing to folks who want to think everyone is a min max exploit my way instantly that there are plenty of us who are not.
I play games for the story, regardless if it is a SP, MP or MMO or if it is a scripted story or a emergent one, I play games for their stories... christ I've only played EVE as long as I have due to the emergent stories weaved by players, its realism in terms of interpersonal relationships with the few spanners CCP throw into the mix from time to time are what makes that game worthwhile for me now that I've hit a plateau in where I can go in-game (I am focused on smaller more agile ships and am quickly running out of options, soon I will be training fluff skills for secondary stuff and avoiding capital ship skills like the plague).
If NWO foundry provides quality content but not so much in the way of rewards I'll still play the foundry quests because seeing what people create in terms of stories is a far more interesting prospect for me than getting the next shiny bit (shiny items hold some appeal do not get me wrong but they are not my focus, not my axis mundi in the games I play ).