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Weapons in TESO and RNG'd

SafariSSafariS TImisoaraPosts: 59Member

I'm HEAVILY excited by Elder Scrolls Online, even with the leaked crap video. However, I've read something VERY interesting today which took my hype level to max. The loot in ESO will have randomed stats (with an array prolly), like in D3.

full article here:  http://www.tesoelite.com/2013/05/eso-gear-progression-dynamically-generated-stats/

bring it already!

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Comments

  • DeivosDeivos Mountain View, CAPosts: 1,750Member Uncommon

    I'm not sure I'm very fond of the idea personally.

     

    I liked the fact most weapons all were built off a standard in the previous TES games and their increase in quality came from enhancements to the base weapon.

     

    I'm not averse to random items, but I feel like they should still be operating off a solid standard in many cases. From the comment made about the DPS being flexible on an otherwise same item, that just makes me worry people are going to just have another thing to latch onto in metagaming semantics.

     

    Which is something that I've never enjoyed out of a community. :p

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners."
    - Thomas B. Macaulay

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    It's a good idea.

    You will keep playing to get the exact gear that matches your build(s)

    So they don't need a never ending procession of higher and higher tiers of gear
  • DeivosDeivos Mountain View, CAPosts: 1,750Member Uncommon

    I don't see this as stopping the gear parade. I mean isn't that the whole point of D3's constant gear farming?

     

    'Just a few more points.'

     

    Adding higher tiers is compatible in this and possibly welcome because the technically higher stats can also be coupled with stronger variance, resulting in players farming a very long time to find nit just that one uber purple item, but that uber purple item with the exact set of stats they want.

     

    More or less it's stacking multiple 'loot grinding' elements on top of one another. Something entirely achievable in this case as an easy means to create item rarity and new tables for 'endgame' when people start to taper off.

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners."
    - Thomas B. Macaulay

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    You forget how you continue to unlock new weapons and skills once you are levelled, you will need multiple gear sets as you switch builds.
  • DeivosDeivos Mountain View, CAPosts: 1,750Member Uncommon

    So you need to farm for a specific version of specific loot drops for multiple sets of gear.

     

    Swanky.

     

    I know I'm generally just doomsaying, but it's just a concern that each of these elements is contributing more to players OCD behaviors than it is anything else.

     

    If we just kept gear that was functionally the same, the same, we could instead dump all this variety into a secondary element like the other TES games do by enhancing and enchanting the gear we value most.

     

    This doesn't necessarily cut out the notion of farming. You want people spending time in your game. So it could easily be the case that they bring back something like the sigil stones from oblivion, a form of socketing and slottable enhancements to gear for people to quest about and collect.

     

    No that people really want relate the two games, but it's one of the few things I actually liked about TOR was the way equipment had a baseline set of stats that were then altered by the components you could take out and reslot in them. The gear that supported that was great in that it let you dismantle collected equipment and put the bits into the ones you actually liked.

    It was a good combo to support player customization on the visual and the stat side. Just unfortunate it was buried in the rest of that game.

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners."
    - Thomas B. Macaulay

  • asrlohzasrlohz UddevallaPosts: 645Member
    I adore that feature already.

    image
  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SafariS

    I'm HEAVILY excited by Elder Scrolls Online, even with the leaked crap video. However, I've read something VERY interesting today which took my hype level to max. The loot in ESO will have randomed stats (with an array prolly), like in D3.

    full article here:  http://www.tesoelite.com/2013/05/eso-gear-progression-dynamically-generated-stats/

    bring it already!

    All I can say "OHH EMM EFF GEE"

     

    Finally a game will have Asheron's Call style loot pinatas and give min/max'ers all the more reason to continue to play the game.  This is 1 of those things I thought I would never ever see in an MMO ever again.  Color me extremely excited and hyped for this game.  Once again ZOS pulls no punches when it comes to designing an MMO for the future!!  Words can't express how excited for this game because of this.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • asrlohzasrlohz UddevallaPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by SafariS

    I'm HEAVILY excited by Elder Scrolls Online, even with the leaked crap video. However, I've read something VERY interesting today which took my hype level to max. The loot in ESO will have randomed stats (with an array prolly), like in D3.

    full article here:  http://www.tesoelite.com/2013/05/eso-gear-progression-dynamically-generated-stats/

    bring it already!

    All I can say "OHH EMM EFF GEE"

     

    Finally a game will have Asheron's Call style loot pinatas and give min/max'ers all the more reason to continue to play the game.  This is 1 of those things I thought I would never ever see in an MMO ever again.  Color me extremely excited and hyped for this game.  Once again ZOS pulls no punches when it comes to designing an MMO for the future!!  Words can't express how excited for this game because of this.

    That's a bit over the top, don't you think? Even by my standards.

    image
  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member

    My problem is that, there is no way to effeciently farm the stat or piece of gear I want. In example, in Diablo 3, you pretty much played hoping you'd get the gear you wanted with the stats you wanted. There was no one "zone" to get the certain item you wanted.

     

    If there is a way I can specifically farm the ITEM I want, then just hope for the best with RNG, I am fine. If it's totally random where the gear drops on top of being totally random the stats I get, it's too much.

     

    And no, I wouldnt label myself a "casual" I play games pretty hardcore I'd say, so its not like "Herp derp play more noob"

  • jusomdudejusomdude Somewhere, KSPosts: 2,401Member

    I hope the gear isn't randomized, at least not as much as in D3. I'm at a point in diablo where it's damn near impossible to find an upgrade through playing, and I'm only paragon lvl 7.

    If the amount of crap items isn't near as much as D3 I guess it'll be ok to have randomized items.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon

    "During my game play at PAX East, I got to experience this feature for myself. During my session I had the same weapon drop for me three times and each time the weapon had a different DPS stat on it. My first weapon had 12.5 DPS, the second had 11.8 DPS and the final one had 12.8 DPS."

     

    I had the same thing happen at PAX but thought it was a bug. image

  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member
    Originally posted by azzamasin

     

    All I can say "OHH EMM EFF GEE"

     

    Finally a game will have Asheron's Call style loot pinatas and give min/max'ers all the more reason to continue to play the game.  This is 1 of those things I thought I would never ever see in an MMO ever again.  Color me extremely excited and hyped for this game.  Once again ZOS pulls no punches when it comes to designing an MMO for the future!!  Words can't express how excited for this game because of this.

    Just a wee observation but I find it funny you think this is an MMO for the future when the feature that has you excited is from a game of the past....

    Personally I would have been happy if a sword was just a sword, you know, like in the game they are trying to emulate...no I mean TES not DAOC...[mod edit]

  • LeiloniLeiloni None of your beeswax, ALPosts: 432Member Uncommon
    I'm just going to post the same thing I said on Reddit. This could be either fun and exciting, or rage inducing. I'm predicting that it will be, at least for non-casual gamers, really rage-inducing. For a single player game it's a lot of fun because you're not competing against anyone. But in an MMO, you want to be the best and in order to do that, you need to have the best gear. If Joe Schmoe over there has better gear than you, you can't do a thing about it except grind harder and pray to the RNG gods.
  • tazarconantazarconan athensPosts: 1,013Member
    Thats very good news.
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,609Member Uncommon

    Love it!

    I've been calling for this type of system for years. I love variety and RNG stat drops. My first MMO ever, Asheron's Call used this system although some of the drops there had some truly bizarre combinations. It's also one of my favorite features in Diablo and Torchlight.

    Uniqueness is a good thing.

  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member
    I hope there is a way to atleast farm for a specific piece of gear I want. I disliked in Diablo 3 that I had to play randomly and hope I get the piece of gear I'm looking for. I mean, it isnt a deal breaker, but I'd like it more if I knew there was a mob or zone I could go to, farm it, and that gear would drop in one of its locations but be RNG'd. I'm fine with the item not being perfect everytime. I understand the logic "Well we want people to be able to just play the game without doing the same zone over and over" but eventually people will do what's most effecient, it always happens.
  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by asrlohz
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by SafariS

    I'm HEAVILY excited by Elder Scrolls Online, even with the leaked crap video. However, I've read something VERY interesting today which took my hype level to max. The loot in ESO will have randomed stats (with an array prolly), like in D3.

    full article here:  http://www.tesoelite.com/2013/05/eso-gear-progression-dynamically-generated-stats/

    bring it already!

    All I can say "OHH EMM EFF GEE"

     

    Finally a game will have Asheron's Call style loot pinatas and give min/max'ers all the more reason to continue to play the game.  This is 1 of those things I thought I would never ever see in an MMO ever again.  Color me extremely excited and hyped for this game.  Once again ZOS pulls no punches when it comes to designing an MMO for the future!!  Words can't express how excited for this game because of this.

    That's a bit over the top, don't you think? Even by my standards.

    One of the best features of my beloved Asheron's Call and the only MMO to ever support Dynamic Loot.  Not over the top at all.  That's how excited I am for ESO now because of this feature.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • JackMackJackMack Tucson, AZPosts: 14Member

         My personal and in no way expert opinion is that this is consistent with recent ES games. Dynamic gear drops were a key feature in Oblivion and Skyrim, which IMO was an improvement over Morrowind.  In Morrowind, I could get great gear without being ready for it just based on knowledge from earlier playthroughs. For instance, on my second run as soon as I got enough magica potions and a levitate spell, one of my first goals was to run to the Orc with the Umbra sword, climb and levitate to an elevation where he could not reach me and cast fireballs at him until he was dead.  I got a stupidly epic sword for the level of my character, at a stupidly easy amount of effort. 

    When Oblivion came out and I realized there was no levitate spell, I was pissed off. I remember floating to the top of mountains in Morrowind, and does anyone else remember the side quest just after the start of MW when the little dude falls out of the sky and you get the scrolls with +10,000 or some such Acrobatics? Then when you used the scroll you jumped into a low Earth orbit, fell to the Earth, and splattered on the ground dead? That was awesome, but it would have made some of the important quests in Oblivion too easy so they(Bethesda) chopped the levitate spell/potion.

    Think of the Thieves Guild Quest line in Oblivion...remember having to construct that arrow to shoot into that tiny Lil target? Why the hell would you have to do all that if you could just float up to where you needed to go. It just did not make sense in Oblivion to keep the levitate spell and so it went away. Did you hate Oblivion because of it? I did not despite my initial misgivings...give the game a chance, if the gameplay does not support the exclusion of what you think you will miss then come back and cast your scorn upon Zenimax as the devil...otherwise, just relax, the game will be what it is...but not until it is.

  • KareliaKarelia HeraklionPosts: 668Member
    i hate randomized gear. i don't want to grind for a single sword, even more i don't want to grind about the same sword with 24654654894 random stats. i just hate it
  • JackMackJackMack Tucson, AZPosts: 14Member
         In most titles I would agree with you, but this game is supposed to be (from what I've read) set up to where your weapon type does not define your class. So if every sword dropped by boss X has the same DPS beneficial stats, and every staff dropped has same ranged DPS and every Relic has the same Healer  stats, then you have every DPS, RDPS and Healer running around with the same weapons, which defeats the stated intention of letting characters use what weapons they want. If you want to be a healer who carries a sword, this would let you...of course this is just my interpretation of the potential upside of this system, where in reality the downside may well be as you say grinding boss x 24654654894 times to get the stats you are looking for.
  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member
    Originally posted by Manolios
    i hate randomized gear. i don't want to grind for a single sword, even more i don't want to grind about the same sword with 24654654894 random stats. i just hate it

    Usually in ARPG's that do the complete RNG, the weapon is RNG'd too. As in, there wont be a specific zone to farm it in, you'll just have to hope the weapon comes and then comes with the good stats. Developers think its a good tool so that "You dont get bored of a zone, we want you to just play through everywhere and hope for it" Not realizing we dont mind grinding for it, and if we get bored of a zone we'll grind somewhere else. History repeats itself in games that way..

     

    What it becomes is, you just farm the most effecient spots. It's been done in games for all of eternity, and MMOs in Raids. Grind what becomes the most effecient spot to do so at the most value. Min/Maxing your time

  • azarhalazarhal Somewhere, BCPosts: 760Member Uncommon

    I hope they keep that itemization system. I like it, give more of an exploration feel to killing thing, as opposed to know exactly that Bandit #3 might drop the exact same copy of Sword of Agony as Bandit #2 did.

  • Punk999Punk999 Baytown, TXPosts: 874Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by azarhal

    I hope they keep that itemization system. I like it, give more of an exploration feel to killing thing, as opposed to know exactly that Bandit #3 might drop the exact same copy of Sword of Agony as Bandit #2 did.

    ^this

    I like this system as well.

    "Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
    ^MMORPG.com

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member

    With a sensible level of randomisation and a decent player to player trading system this will be fine.

    You will have the choice to grind for your best fit set (but not for too long), or to grind for the money to buy it from the auction house (or whatever).

    If they overcook it though (at either end), it will not be good for the game...

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,836Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Deivos
    So you need to farm for a specific version of specific loot drops for multiple sets of gear. Swanky. I know I'm generally just doomsaying, but it's just a concern that each of these elements is contributing more to players OCD behaviors than it is anything else. If we just kept gear that was functionally the same, the same, we could instead dump all this variety into a secondary element like the other TES games do by enhancing and enchanting the gear we value most. 

    how you can see this as a bad thing really amazes me lol

    i mean sure, if you assume that there will be no enchanting or further customization to the weapons and armor because they are random, i could see your point.

    but why exactly do you assume that there wont be that kind of customization? especially considering the fact that they have confirmed skills such as enchanting will be in the game and that multiple different professions can enhance weapons and armor.

    enchanters can enchant weapon and armor and weapon smiths can make weapons better in TESO.

    http://youtu.be/Ed2VZXMJo8Y

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