Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing. -Robert E. Howard
People saying wow are retarded, content that gets trivialised every 2 years, does not count as endgame
The content being trivialized is also why it's so much higher quality than the rest of the industry -- because they can control more closely for gear, and offer satisfying challenges which reward skillful play.
The other poster may be right that other games have more max-level content than WOW. But do they have quality? Watching the AOC raids and searching for their abilities in wikis, they seem to have rather childish, uninteresting mechanics compared with a good WOW boss.
Quality vs. Quantity. Some players just want a big list of million-health bosses they can say they've killed. Others want to play through interesting challenges.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
People saying wow are retarded, content that gets trivialised every 2 years, does not count as endgame
The content being trivialized is also why it's so much higher quality than the rest of the industry -- because they can control more closely for gear, and offer satisfying challenges which reward skillful play.
The other poster may be right that other games have more max-level content than WOW. But do they have quality? Watching the AOC raids and searching for their abilities in wikis, they seem to have rather childish, uninteresting mechanics compared with a good WOW boss.
People saying wow are retarded, content that gets trivialised every 2 years, does not count as endgame
The content being trivialized is also why it's so much higher quality than the rest of the industry -- because they can control more closely for gear, and offer satisfying challenges which reward skillful play.
The other poster may be right that other games have more max-level content than WOW. But do they have quality? Watching the AOC raids and searching for their abilities in wikis, they seem to have rather childish, uninteresting mechanics compared with a good WOW boss.
All WoW bosses I recall were scripted fights with alarms, bells and whistles going off telling you what to do and when to do it. I'd be so busy watching the UI that I'd miss the fight.
The game has a vast amount of max-level content, it's mind boggling.
Probably not more than GW1 though...and yes...I have played both a lot. Yes, GW1 managed this because basically all of its content was max level with little intro zones before it for lower levels (with the exception of the first game that had a real campaign for <20).
Also, that you originally thought the person claiming GW1 had the most content was talking about GW2 shows that you are probably not very well versed in GW games, or you would have immediately realized what was meant...
People are going to point and laugh at me, but Guild Wars 1 has the most end-game things to do (since most of the game out of the newb areas is max level,) including a wide variety of pvp to engage in.
Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.
All WoW bosses I recall were scripted fights with alarms, bells and whistles going off telling you what to do and when to do it. I'd be so busy watching the UI that I'd miss the fight.
You prefer a straight up spank & tank with nothing else?
Alright, seeing as how I played endgame in most of the games mentioned here I feel I can comment:
EQ1 - Probably easily trumps everything in content, but not endgame content as level cap is continually raised with each expansion.
FFXI - Same as EQ1, it has a lot of content for sure with years to build on, but level cap is continually raised and older content because outdated.
WoW - It has less overall content than EQ and FFXI (but better quality in content); however I think each expansion typically has more endgame content.
EQ2 - The amount of content is mindblowning and if you include the chronomagus system you can downlevel to do solo, group, and raid content at various levels (including raid content as early as level 20!). Even without including the chronomagus EQ2 has a lot of endgame content they bring with each expansion and level raise cap. I definitely think this wins out overall.
AoC - AoC didn't raise the level cap with their expansion and for the amount of endgame content they have easily trumps the ones above, but their overall content is much less than all of the MMOs above.
Guild Wars - As with AoC almost everything is endgame due to no level cap increase on and even more so with GW since there is very little leveling curve and you hit cap fast. This wins out if you are only talking about max level content and not including any of the max level content from previous expansions in other games which raised their level cap.
Rift - Rift is a very endgame centric game and has a lot of content at endgame, moreso than WoW IMO, but can't compete with other games in nearly every category.
Eve - I don't think Eve should count because it's a sandbox MMO and the content isn't developer driven and can be quite repetitive IMO.
DAOC - I don't see this at all. Maybe someone could clarify. It definitely has more PvP content, but it doesn't have nearly enough PvE endgame to compete with the others on the list.
I never considered GW a MMO, its a loby game like Diablo...
I honestly think the question should not be what game has the most end game stuff but what end game would you play the most.
Personally i have become a person that gets into an themepark MMO and maxes out my toon only to find the same boring stuff at the end that really does not interest me so i end up not playing it anymore or making alts.
It occurs to me the only type of MMO that interests me are sandbox games with its opened ended style. Freedom is where it is at.
There is nothing like making a toon and heading out into an open world (end game) and going from there...the choices i make are mine, the path i walk are mine and the stuff i choose to do that I find exciting and enteraining are all up to me. I am not following a laid out path and playing someone else end game.
Guild Wars (1) isnt really a MMORPG though, It does have a ton of content if you have all four boxes though, no doubt.
If you want to count GW1, its GW1. Otherwise its EQ2. I havent played the last few EQ expansions, its possible EQ1 wins because in the past expansions usually stayed relevant for more than one expansion cycle and EQ1 expansions are typically quite large.
All WoW bosses I recall were scripted fights with alarms, bells and whistles going off telling you what to do and when to do it. I'd be so busy watching the UI that I'd miss the fight.
Given a choice between bosses with unique mechanics (but telegraphed moves) and bosses who have flat mechanics which basically play the same, would you really prefer the latter?
I do feel that WOW's addon/macro systems take things a little too far, but I would prefer a game which has slightly excessive telegraphing to a game which barely involves gameplay at all.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
All WoW bosses I recall were scripted fights with alarms, bells and whistles going off telling you what to do and when to do it. I'd be so busy watching the UI that I'd miss the fight.
Given a choice between bosses with unique mechanics (but telegraphed moves) and bosses who have flat mechanics which basically play the same, would you really prefer the latter?
I do feel that WOW's addon/macro systems take things a little too far, but I would prefer a game which has slightly excessive telegraphing to a game which barely involves gameplay at all.
I would love to see Blizzard ban addons like DBM and watch the chaos that ensued.
I would love to see Blizzard ban addons like DBM and watch the chaos that ensued.
Banning DBM would be excessive. WOW only slightly over-telegraphs with DBM. A complete removal of DBM would swing the other way and make the game under-telegraphed.
A game shouldn't be about understanding wtf is happening when a million moves are flying across the screen at once. A game should clearly prioritize and present all of the important things (tiered by importance) to the player and allow them to make a smart tactical decision based on a clear picture of current events.
Otherwise it's like trying to play a game of chess where all your pieces are randomized and their types are hidden from you: the game would be about figuring out wtf is happening, when it should be about making the right tactical and strategic choices.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I think Asheron's Call 1 might be a contender, though not having played all the games discussed here I can't be sure. What I could say is that AC1 had perhaps 50X the themed dungeons of a game like WoW (though it had many fewer "quests").
Comments
Forgive me for this, but I've never played EQ2. What types of content are there?
Oderint, dum metuant.
WoW endgame is currently :
_ 1 raid + 3 semi retro (already nerfed)
_ 8 dungeons
_ PvP
_ A few others thingy like some world boss, dailies, scenarios etc.
That's it.
Everything else is old content that can be facerolled.
So it is more or less than a game like Diablo 3, which has 205 zones (http://d3db.com/zone) and some are random?
yup
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can
be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-Robert E. Howard
This should give you some idea http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/EverQuest_2_Wiki:Main_Page
The game has a vast amount of max-level content, it's mind boggling.
The content being trivialized is also why it's so much higher quality than the rest of the industry -- because they can control more closely for gear, and offer satisfying challenges which reward skillful play.
The other poster may be right that other games have more max-level content than WOW. But do they have quality? Watching the AOC raids and searching for their abilities in wikis, they seem to have rather childish, uninteresting mechanics compared with a good WOW boss.
Quality vs. Quantity. Some players just want a big list of million-health bosses they can say they've killed. Others want to play through interesting challenges.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Quality is EQ2&WOW.
All WoW bosses I recall were scripted fights with alarms, bells and whistles going off telling you what to do and when to do it. I'd be so busy watching the UI that I'd miss the fight.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Probably not more than GW1 though...and yes...I have played both a lot. Yes, GW1 managed this because basically all of its content was max level with little intro zones before it for lower levels (with the exception of the first game that had a real campaign for <20).
Also, that you originally thought the person claiming GW1 had the most content was talking about GW2 shows that you are probably not very well versed in GW games, or you would have immediately realized what was meant...
Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.
You prefer a straight up spank & tank with nothing else?
actually it has a max lvl, takes years to reach it tho
anyway, @topic ;i'd go for WoW or TSW
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Alright, seeing as how I played endgame in most of the games mentioned here I feel I can comment:
EQ1 - Probably easily trumps everything in content, but not endgame content as level cap is continually raised with each expansion.
FFXI - Same as EQ1, it has a lot of content for sure with years to build on, but level cap is continually raised and older content because outdated.
WoW - It has less overall content than EQ and FFXI (but better quality in content); however I think each expansion typically has more endgame content.
EQ2 - The amount of content is mindblowning and if you include the chronomagus system you can downlevel to do solo, group, and raid content at various levels (including raid content as early as level 20!). Even without including the chronomagus EQ2 has a lot of endgame content they bring with each expansion and level raise cap. I definitely think this wins out overall.
AoC - AoC didn't raise the level cap with their expansion and for the amount of endgame content they have easily trumps the ones above, but their overall content is much less than all of the MMOs above.
Guild Wars - As with AoC almost everything is endgame due to no level cap increase on and even more so with GW since there is very little leveling curve and you hit cap fast. This wins out if you are only talking about max level content and not including any of the max level content from previous expansions in other games which raised their level cap.
Rift - Rift is a very endgame centric game and has a lot of content at endgame, moreso than WoW IMO, but can't compete with other games in nearly every category.
Eve - I don't think Eve should count because it's a sandbox MMO and the content isn't developer driven and can be quite repetitive IMO.
DAOC - I don't see this at all. Maybe someone could clarify. It definitely has more PvP content, but it doesn't have nearly enough PvE endgame to compete with the others on the list.
I never considered GW a MMO, its a loby game like Diablo...
I honestly think the question should not be what game has the most end game stuff but what end game would you play the most.
Personally i have become a person that gets into an themepark MMO and maxes out my toon only to find the same boring stuff at the end that really does not interest me so i end up not playing it anymore or making alts.
It occurs to me the only type of MMO that interests me are sandbox games with its opened ended style. Freedom is where it is at.
There is nothing like making a toon and heading out into an open world (end game) and going from there...the choices i make are mine, the path i walk are mine and the stuff i choose to do that I find exciting and enteraining are all up to me. I am not following a laid out path and playing someone else end game.
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
Guild Wars (1) isnt really a MMORPG though, It does have a ton of content if you have all four boxes though, no doubt.
If you want to count GW1, its GW1. Otherwise its EQ2. I havent played the last few EQ expansions, its possible EQ1 wins because in the past expansions usually stayed relevant for more than one expansion cycle and EQ1 expansions are typically quite large.
OK! Another is GW1 a "real" MMO thread! It's nice to see the classics hauled out every now and again.
Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.
Given a choice between bosses with unique mechanics (but telegraphed moves) and bosses who have flat mechanics which basically play the same, would you really prefer the latter?
I do feel that WOW's addon/macro systems take things a little too far, but I would prefer a game which has slightly excessive telegraphing to a game which barely involves gameplay at all.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I would love to see Blizzard ban addons like DBM and watch the chaos that ensued.
Banning DBM would be excessive. WOW only slightly over-telegraphs with DBM. A complete removal of DBM would swing the other way and make the game under-telegraphed.
A game shouldn't be about understanding wtf is happening when a million moves are flying across the screen at once. A game should clearly prioritize and present all of the important things (tiered by importance) to the player and allow them to make a smart tactical decision based on a clear picture of current events.
Otherwise it's like trying to play a game of chess where all your pieces are randomized and their types are hidden from you: the game would be about figuring out wtf is happening, when it should be about making the right tactical and strategic choices.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I think Asheron's Call 1 might be a contender, though not having played all the games discussed here I can't be sure. What I could say is that AC1 had perhaps 50X the themed dungeons of a game like WoW (though it had many fewer "quests").
Asheron's Call, 10+ years of content with new high level quest every month.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky