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8 months in. Did GW2 break from the WoW formula?

bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,277Member Uncommon

It's been awhile since I posted in this forum. Before the launch I railed against the hype. After launch I loved the game for 3 weeks.

 

Since then I've seen many columns dedicated to the progress of GW2. From the fringe I've read about dungeons, dailies,  WvW fixes. and mini-games.

 

To those still playing-

Do you feel that GW2 has broken away for the WoW formula? If so, it what ways?

 

Do you feel GW2 has become more like WoW? If so, in what ways?

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Comments

  • OcenicaOcenica Cocoa, FLPosts: 96Member

    Most all MMOs that I have played and told my friends about goes like this, "It's like wow but with ...xyz."  Guild Wars 2 I only played for the first month and can't say anything about the next 7, but I am willing to bet it's 10% different than the first month at best.  So I would probably wind up saying, "It's like wow but with ...xyz."

     

  • pmilespmiles Federal Way, WAPosts: 383Member

    Any game came break the WoW formula... it's a matter of whether they have the balls to stick with it.

     

    Still no subscription fees... check

    Still no trinity... check

     

    Yep, ArenaNet's balls are still intact.

     

    Blizzard on the other hand constantly explain to the playerbase how things didn't go as they expected, how they've learned from this and how they are going to avoid it in the future.  That is true... they've found new ways to screw things up with each new patch.

    GW2 is making improvements... WoW is running in circles.

    GW2 8 months in... WoW 8 years in...

     

    Don't you just love trends?

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by Ocenica

    Most all MMOs that I have played and told my friends about goes like this, "It's like wow but with ...xyz."

    your analogy can apply to any mmo that your friends are aware of

    its like XX mmo but with xyz

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Definitely GW2 is the not-WoW. Removing the treadmill, different trinity-free combat style, content remaining viable regardless of character level, lack of the quest-bang packed quest hubs, continual content updates monthly at no charge, living, breathing world (as opposed to static quest based world)... they've walked away from the WoW formula and are enjoying the cashflow as a result. 

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • KareliaKarelia HeraklionPosts: 668Member
    Originally posted by pmiles

    Any game came break the WoW formula... it's a matter of whether they have the balls to stick with it.

     

    Still no subscription fees... check

    Still no trinity... check

     

    Yep, ArenaNet's balls are still intact.

     

    Blizzard on the other hand constantly explain to the playerbase how things didn't go as they expected, how they've learned from this and how they are going to avoid it in the future.  That is true... they've found new ways to screw things up with each new patch.

    GW2 is making improvements... WoW is running in circles.

    GW2 8 months in... WoW 8 years in...

     

    Don't you just love trends?

     

    wow is running in circles while gw2 is making improvements...thats an experts opinion i guess?

    hmmm gw2 after only 8 months has ''lost'' how many of the daily player base? maybe half? and its a game you only pay once. imagine this game with a sub? i guess you just cant...

    wow after almost 10 years has more than 7m subs. not free or b2p users but subs. can you understant the difference?

    and yes, we all love trends :)

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisPosts: 2,073Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Manolios
    Originally posted by pmiles

    Any game came break the WoW formula... it's a matter of whether they have the balls to stick with it.

     

    Still no subscription fees... check

    Still no trinity... check

     

    Yep, ArenaNet's balls are still intact.

     

    Blizzard on the other hand constantly explain to the playerbase how things didn't go as they expected, how they've learned from this and how they are going to avoid it in the future.  That is true... they've found new ways to screw things up with each new patch.

    GW2 is making improvements... WoW is running in circles.

    GW2 8 months in... WoW 8 years in...

     

    Don't you just love trends?

     

    wow is running in circles while gw2 is making improvements...thats an experts opinion i guess?

    hmmm gw2 after only 8 months has ''lost'' how many of the daily player base? maybe half? and its a game you only pay once. imagine this game with a sub? i guess you just cant...

    wow after almost 10 years has more than 7m subs. not free or b2p users but subs. can you understant the difference?

    and yes, we all love trends :)

    Spot on.image

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  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Manolios
    Originally posted by pmiles

    Any game came break the WoW formula... it's a matter of whether they have the balls to stick with it.

     

    Still no subscription fees... check

    Still no trinity... check

     

    Yep, ArenaNet's balls are still intact.

     

    Blizzard on the other hand constantly explain to the playerbase how things didn't go as they expected, how they've learned from this and how they are going to avoid it in the future.  That is true... they've found new ways to screw things up with each new patch.

    GW2 is making improvements... WoW is running in circles.

    GW2 8 months in... WoW 8 years in...

     

    Don't you just love trends?

     

    wow is running in circles while gw2 is making improvements...thats an experts opinion i guess?

    hmmm gw2 after only 8 months has ''lost'' how many of the daily player base? maybe half? and its a game you only pay once. imagine this game with a sub? i guess you just cant...

    wow after almost 10 years has more than 7m subs. not free or b2p users but subs. can you understant the difference?

    and yes, we all love trends :)

    You do realize that the $15/mo subs are only a fraction of what they're counting as subs, yes? They include the asian time cards where people play for pennies per hour even though they're not subscriptions in the sense we're used to. So that & mil. plus number is a bit exaggerated. Not that that's highly relevent, just a point of fact. 

     

    GW2 is actually slowly climbing in player base during the peroid most MMOs face declines. 

     

    It is a fact that GW2 is contunually making improvements. Can't say how many circles Blizzard is running around in since I quit WoW before Cataclysm.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by Manolios

    hmmm gw2 after only 8 months has ''lost'' how many of the daily player base? maybe half? and its a game you only pay once. imagine this game with a sub? i guess you just cant...

    I'd like to see your source how GW2 daily players dropped in half

    --  I doubt its a continual drop

     

    WOW released to China during its first year, doubling its numbers

    GW2 has not released to China yet -- to be seen what that effect that will have

  • dllddlld GöteborgPosts: 541Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Manolios
    Originally posted by pmiles

    Any game came break the WoW formula... it's a matter of whether they have the balls to stick with it.

     

    Still no subscription fees... check

    Still no trinity... check

     

    Yep, ArenaNet's balls are still intact.

     

    Blizzard on the other hand constantly explain to the playerbase how things didn't go as they expected, how they've learned from this and how they are going to avoid it in the future.  That is true... they've found new ways to screw things up with each new patch.

    GW2 is making improvements... WoW is running in circles.

    GW2 8 months in... WoW 8 years in...

     

    Don't you just love trends?

     

    wow is running in circles while gw2 is making improvements...thats an experts opinion i guess?

    hmmm gw2 after only 8 months has ''lost'' how many of the daily player base? maybe half? and its a game you only pay once. imagine this game with a sub? i guess you just cant...

    wow after almost 10 years has more than 7m subs. not free or b2p users but subs. can you understant the difference?

    and yes, we all love trends :)

    Nobody but Anet nows how many people have actually quit so that's just pure speculation.

    I believed it was 9million last but at the same time that number make me cringe a bit due to the chinese payment model. MoP sold about 3mil so it has 3~ mil western subs.

    I haven't played WoW in a long time but I believe the basics are what they always been ie raids and gear which does not exist in that form in GW2. So I guess I would have to say it has broken the "wow formula".

  • pmilespmiles Federal Way, WAPosts: 383Member

    LOL, I never said a damn thing about who had more players...

     

    I said... WoW is running in circles and GW2 is moving forward...  no where does that mention a single metric on who is actually playing either game.  No where.

     

    "WoW has 9M subs!"  

     

    I'll do that one better...

     

    GW2 has ZERO subs!  Trump that!

  • Soki123Soki123 Kelowna, BCPosts: 1,479Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by pmiles

    LOL, I never said a damn thing about who had more players...

     

    I said... WoW is running in circles and GW2 is moving forward...  no where does that mention a single metric on who is actually playing either game.  No where.

     

    "WoW has 9M subs!"  

     

    I'll do that one better...

     

    GW2 has ZERO subs!  Trump that!

    How is WoW running in circles. and how is GW2 moving forward exactly. Or is this just your opinion. After 2-3 weeks of fun, I discovered GW2 is a step backwards in MMOs. Interesting how opinions work.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Well its not like wow

    However it seems to me they used a simmilar formula to make it as wow.

    If...
    Wow = EQ + casualisation + easy mode + aimed at "yoof" - figuring stuff out for yourself - need to maintain a reputation

    Gw2 = daoc + casualisation + easy mode + aimed at "yoof" - figuring stuff out for yourself - need to maintain a reputation
  • CelciusCelcius Franklin, TNPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully

    It's been awhile since I posted in this forum. Before the launch I railed against the hype. After launch I loved the game for 3 weeks.

     

    Since then I've seen many columns dedicated to the progress of GW2. From the fringe I've read about dungeons, dailies,  WvW fixes. and mini-games.

     

    To those still playing-

    Do you feel that GW2 has broken away for the WoW formula? If so, it what ways?

     

    Do you feel GW2 has become more like WoW? If so, in what ways?

    It is not remotely like WoW. Never has been and never will be.

  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIPosts: 2,030Member
    Originally posted by Manolios
    Originally posted by pmiles

    Any game came break the WoW formula... it's a matter of whether they have the balls to stick with it.

     

    Still no subscription fees... check

    Still no trinity... check

     

    Yep, ArenaNet's balls are still intact.

     

    Blizzard on the other hand constantly explain to the playerbase how things didn't go as they expected, how they've learned from this and how they are going to avoid it in the future.  That is true... they've found new ways to screw things up with each new patch.

    GW2 is making improvements... WoW is running in circles.

    GW2 8 months in... WoW 8 years in...

     

    Don't you just love trends?

     

    wow is running in circles while gw2 is making improvements...thats an experts opinion i guess?

    hmmm gw2 after only 8 months has ''lost'' how many of the daily player base? maybe half? and its a game you only pay once. imagine this game with a sub? i guess you just cant...

    wow after almost 10 years has more than 7m subs. not free or b2p users but subs. can you understant the difference?

    and yes, we all love trends :)

    "I counter your fabricated knowledge with made up stats of my own!"  Are these forums just contests between our imaginations now?

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,779Member Uncommon

    Sure, GW2 broke away from WoW.  Combat is a lot better, as you have to dodge and move around rather than just standing there trading hits.  It's also non-Trinity combat, so you can grab a group of whatever classes are available and go and it's fine.  Finding other players in the game world is usually a good thing or at worst neutral, unlike WoW where you have to worry about kill stealing.  Guild Wars 2 has dailies, but you don't really have to do them, and on some days, you'll do them without trying just in the natural course of playing the game anyway.  It's a lot less loot-driven than WoW, where your value the group is mostly determined by your level and/or gear.  Guild Wars 2 also lets you go wherever you want, whenever you want, and scales your level down, rather than having only a few places in the entire game that are appropriate to your level and gear like WoW does.

    If you're inclined to explain any game that you can as being like WoW except for xyz, then you can do that with Guild Wars 2, but you can do that with nearly any MMORPG.  Or, for that matter, a large fraction of single-player games.  If you really, really wanted to, you could explain Tetris as being like WoW except for the complete feature list from each game being disjoint from the other.

  • KareliaKarelia HeraklionPosts: 668Member
    Originally posted by Soki123
    Originally posted by pmiles

    LOL, I never said a damn thing about who had more players...

     

    I said... WoW is running in circles and GW2 is moving forward...  no where does that mention a single metric on who is actually playing either game.  No where.

     

    "WoW has 9M subs!"  

     

    I'll do that one better...

     

    GW2 has ZERO subs!  Trump that!

    How is WoW running in circles. and how is GW2 moving forward exactly. Or is this just your opinion. After 2-3 weeks of fun, I discovered GW2 is a step backwards in MMOs. Interesting how opinions work.

     

    this

  • saurus123saurus123 nonePosts: 570Member Uncommon

    if the WoW have 9mil subs why i see empty towns and only few players in zones while i was leveling?

     

    something not right here

  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member

    Yea it broke the formula, I can't really play an MMORPG that follows the WoW formula with a few extra gimmics.

     

    Like SWTOR relied mostly on the story but the rest was a bit like WoW.

     

    Rift relied on rifts least at first, yet combat and everything else felt like WoW but I will say this, it's a better version IMO.

     

    Tera relied on the action combat yet it was like, well actually not WoW but literaly like Aion.

     

    Warhammer relied on PVP as well yet was like WoW.

     

    The list goes on.

     

    Guild Wars 2 focused on all it's gimmicks pretty much, and it's apparent from updates, both PVE, PVP, and etc which makes the game feel different. GW2 is where you have people who try to down it but they start by saying "It didn't do this first, because all these different games had that feature, but I can't name one who had a decent balance of them all, while maintaining a different feel to it like GW2."

     

    Now aside from GW2, I can say Neverwinter doesn't feel like the basic WoW formula, TSW does not either, Planetside 2 if we are counting MMOFPS, and Defiance.

     

    Upcomin MMOs seem to look like they are moving away from the WoW formula which is great, and some seem to stick to it, but also have more than a few gimmicks that make it feel different like Wildstar IHMO.

    GW2 definately broke the formula, not saying it's the savior or etc, because like I said IMO, Rift is better than WoW yet has that WoW formula IMO, and a WoW formula game can still be great in it's own way, as I think WoW came from the EQ formula?

     

    Far as direction I think GW2 is making multiple steps in the right direction, just like a few other MMORPG's, some just maybe had a niche yet really well down take on what they where doing like TSW for example.

     

     

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • stevebombsquadstevebombsquad Orlando, FLPosts: 842Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by Manolios
    Originally posted by pmiles

    Any game came break the WoW formula... it's a matter of whether they have the balls to stick with it.

     

    Still no subscription fees... check

    Still no trinity... check

     

    Yep, ArenaNet's balls are still intact.

     

    Blizzard on the other hand constantly explain to the playerbase how things didn't go as they expected, how they've learned from this and how they are going to avoid it in the future.  That is true... they've found new ways to screw things up with each new patch.

    GW2 is making improvements... WoW is running in circles.

    GW2 8 months in... WoW 8 years in...

     

    Don't you just love trends?

     

    wow is running in circles while gw2 is making improvements...thats an experts opinion i guess?

    hmmm gw2 after only 8 months has ''lost'' how many of the daily player base? maybe half? and its a game you only pay once. imagine this game with a sub? i guess you just cant...

    wow after almost 10 years has more than 7m subs. not free or b2p users but subs. can you understant the difference?

    and yes, we all love trends :)

    You do realize that the $15/mo subs are only a fraction of what they're counting as subs, yes? They include the asian time cards where people play for pennies per hour even though they're not subscriptions in the sense we're used to. So that & mil. plus number is a bit exaggerated. Not that that's highly relevent, just a point of fact. 

     

    GW2 is actually slowly climbing in player base during the peroid most MMOs face declines. 

     

    It is a fact that GW2 is contunually making improvements. Can't say how many circles Blizzard is running around in since I quit WoW before Cataclysm.

    The number of people that bought the box is climbing, but not the player base. You have those two things confused. The population now is no where near what it was at launch. Not even in the same ball park.

     

    James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  • TrykenTryken Ultima Online Correspondent Orlando, FLPosts: 63Member

    I'm actually going to do my best to reply to this.

     

    I have two level 80s on Anvil Rock and co-run an 80-member guild.

     

    Guild Wars 2 is trying very hard to break that formula. Does it succeed in every way? No. But the game is trying very hard to do so. I'll try to go over some major similarities and contrasts.

     

    "Holy Trinity" - While there is no "holy trinity" as such in Guild Wars, there are certainly three classes that are almost always considered above the other classes, those being Warrior, Guardian, and Mesmer. With that said, these classes are not required to make it through a dungeon or fractal, but they are heavily advantaged and favored among most parties. But if you and a public group want to run a dungeon and you have a Necro, Elementalist, Thief, Ranger, and Engineer, you're still capable of making it through the content you want. You just might not be as "effecient" as some of the elite players would like.

    Theme Park - Guild Wars 2 is a themepark MMO in the same vain as WoW, but with more longetivity to its rides. Because the game is constantly scaling your level where you go, world events and low level dungeons are just as viable to run as high level events and high level dungeons. This allows for a more robust overworld thanks to events constantly dinging off across the world. But is it still a themepark game? Yes. Outside of combat, and once you're done with exploration, there's not a multitude of options to keep you busy outside of going through the dungeons, fractals, WvW, etc. As a many-year Ultima Online player, I lament spending hours getting my house just right, or seeing Luna full of loiterers chatting it up, or even raising my fishing skill for that chance on a million dollar find.

    More Flexible in how you level than WoW - Guild Wars 2 is much, much more flexible in how you level than WoW. My first character I ran through and did the story missions and quests (I hate questing, by the way) to get my levels. For my second 80, I grinded him through Shiverpeak and eventually crafted him about 30 levels after that. I even ran him up some levels in World v World. So that was huge for me. With the addition of dailies, you have even more ways to level. It's a great touch and takes away a lot of the monotony in the old questing grind created by WoW. I never felt like my life was never-ending quests (unless I wanted it to be).

     

    Combat changes the game - Guld Wars 2's combat is completely different. It remains completely different (and better) in just about every way than WoW's.

    Not Enough to Do When You're 80 and Geared - That's the crux of the problem with a themepark MMO, isn't it? You reach 80, you get your gear, and what's left? Level a new character? Most games add in the gear treadmill, like WoW, and Guild Wars 2 did this with ascended items. If GW2 took a more sandbox approach, gave things like player housing, and more non-combat-oriented ideas in the game, it'd make being level-cap with exotic gear a lot less boring.

    More Stuff On the Way - Guild Wars 2 is trying. I mean trying. You have constant events with wonderful, high-production value quests and bosses coming out every few months. That's wonderful. Guild Halls are on the agenda, and I have a feeling we'll see more sandbox elements in the future. Guild Wars 2 is trying very hard to keep players interested and make them feel like they're not playing World of Warcraft.

    The McMMO Problem - With convenience being such a huge deal in Guild Wars 2 (sell your stuff on the auction house from anywhere, but can only buy at the AH. You can teleport anywhere as long as you're not in combat, and instantly), some of the immersion gets lost. Only recently have I started to see people hanging out in Lion's Arch and just messing around, which shows how cities aren't quite the hub I was hoping they'd be. I like loitering around in games and getting to know people, but towns need to have god incentives for being there. The Mystic Forge, bank, and AH are helping Lion's Arch as a city, but I wish it was doing a bit more to become the large hub it can be. There's no LFG finder, yet, so you still see shotus throughout the town for people getting fractals together (and, in this case, I actually do look forward to a LFG finder).

    So, to answer your question, I can still say that Guild Wars 2 is working at being, if not 100% different, a reimagining of the themepark MMO.

  • MyriaMyria Lowell, MAPosts: 570Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully

    To those still playing-

    Do you feel that GW2 has broken away for the WoW formula? If so, it what ways?

     

    Do you feel GW2 has become more like WoW? If so, in what ways?

    It really depends on what you mean by 'the WoW formula', I suppose. Certainly combat isn't really very "WoW-ish", nor are the clases. They've done WoW one better in sacrificing depth and flexibility to the casual gods, whether or not that's a good thing depends on your point of view. They have come to rely on dailies for 'content', a bane of WoW since TBC, IMHO (the only dailies in any game I would give you two poops for were the Netherwing ones, it has been downhill from there), but that's the only real "WoWification" I can see.

     

    I guess from my point-of-view it hasn't so much "broken away" as it has excised large sections of, without replacing those sections with anything meaningful. More a simplified sub-set than any real re-working of the formula. The question, in the end, is will that sub-set, or a variation thereof, go on to be the new norm? Basically, will GW2's design have a meaningful long term impact on the industry?

     

    I suspect the answer is a fairly emphatic 'no', just as it was for GW1, but time will tell and we'll probably need another year or two before we know for sure. Certainly at this point there aren't any signs pointing towards a GW2-based revolution in MMO design, quite the opposite, really, but the future is ever uncertain and this industry is prone to odd turns.

  • Vunak23Vunak23 In your house eatin'' your cookies, FLPosts: 635Member
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Ocenica

    Most all MMOs that I have played and told my friends about goes like this, "It's like wow but with ...xyz."

    your analogy can apply to any mmo that your friends are aware of

    its like XX mmo but with xyz

    Not really. I would love someone to explain how EVE, UO, DAoC, Shadowbane were WoW with XYZ. You can't because they were all drastically different. 

    GW2 however is similar in its implementation. GW2 doesn't follow it as closely as RIFT, but it is still similar. 

    "In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  • DogblasterDogblaster PraguePosts: 491Member
    All I can tell you is that I left gw 2 after a couple of months because I was bored ... All guild wars 2 is about is creating alts and beeing bored with no real progression and things to do .. atleast I feel it this way.
  • EpicentEpicent Pierre Part, LAPosts: 647Member
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by Manolios
    Originally posted by pmiles

    Any game came break the WoW formula... it's a matter of whether they have the balls to stick with it.

     

    Still no subscription fees... check

    Still no trinity... check

     

    Yep, ArenaNet's balls are still intact.

     

    Blizzard on the other hand constantly explain to the playerbase how things didn't go as they expected, how they've learned from this and how they are going to avoid it in the future.  That is true... they've found new ways to screw things up with each new patch.

    GW2 is making improvements... WoW is running in circles.

    GW2 8 months in... WoW 8 years in...

     

    Don't you just love trends?

     

    wow is running in circles while gw2 is making improvements...thats an experts opinion i guess?

    hmmm gw2 after only 8 months has ''lost'' how many of the daily player base? maybe half? and its a game you only pay once. imagine this game with a sub? i guess you just cant...

    wow after almost 10 years has more than 7m subs. not free or b2p users but subs. can you understant the difference?

    and yes, we all love trends :)

    Spot on.

    They lost population.................yet all the servers are high or full with no server merges........................right.

  • VorchVorch Somewhere, FLPosts: 800Member

    The game is not dying.

    The game is not WoW.

    Every damn month, ANet releases substantial new content and features. The first month is not how the game is now.

    This whole thread was a troll. Period

     

    "As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days— those are now the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2

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