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Business Model Will Kill This game

ChrisboxChrisbox Monroe, NJPosts: 1,707Member Uncommon
I already fear for this game...the gameplay so far as been quite enjoyable, but it follows the same exact model every other Perfect world game did and died off.  Its basically rack in f2p cash with a really badly priced zen system, then when the community dies use that money to make another game. Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.  Should've launched as a subscription game in my opinion, thats where the commitment comes in from not only the players but the developers.  

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR

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Comments

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon

    Don't fool yourself with the idea that "committed players" make a financially successful MMO.

    They don't.

     

    The average MMORPG player wants to reach level cap in 4 to 6 weeks max, followed by a few weeks of grinding "endgame". Then they're bored, because they've "beaten the game" and it's off to the next MMO...

     

    People are playing MMO's like single-player games. Everyone's there for launch, but 2 months later they're all gone again. They've "finished" the game.

     

    So the F2P games try to earn the maximum income in their first 2 months. After that it's maintenance mode until the servers close.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Subscription is dead.  Only room for a few subscription games and WoW and Eve have those people.  F2P is the future, which is odd because it ought to of been the past considering every other gaming genre has never had a subscription.  Do not recall ever paying for a subscription while playing Mortal Kombat or Madden NFL.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

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  • faxnadufaxnadu HelsinkiPosts: 940Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    Don't fool yourself with the idea that "committed players" make a financially successful MMO.

    They don't.

     

    The average MMORPG player wants to reach level cap in 4 to 6 weeks max, followed by a few weeks of grinding "endgame". Then they're bored, because they've "beaten the game" and it's off to the next MMO...

     

    People are playing MMO's like single-player games. Everyone's there for launch, but 2 months later they're all gone again. They've "finished" the game.

     

    So the F2P games try to earn the maximum income in their first 2 months. After that it's maintenance mode until the servers close.

    this is sad but true.

  • ragz45ragz45 rochester hills, MIPosts: 686Member Uncommon

    All they need to do is intrudce a TON of costume, fluff, and mount type items to the item store.  And then lower the prices across the board on the rest of the stuff.  League of Legends makes a TON of money, and they don't charge for anything other than skins (read fluff).

    The sooner FTP mmo's get this into their heads, the better off the entire ftp genre will be.  Players pay for fluff, players leave if ftp systems are more inconvenience than fun.

  • NotoriousXNotoriousX Grande Cache, ABPosts: 192Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    Don't fool yourself with the idea that "committed players" make a financially successful MMO.

    They don't.

     

    The average MMORPG player wants to reach level cap in 4 to 6 weeks max, followed by a few weeks of grinding "endgame". Then they're bored, because they've "beaten the game" and it's off to the next MMO...

     

    People are playing MMO's like single-player games. Everyone's there for launch, but 2 months later they're all gone again. They've "finished" the game.

     

    So the F2P games try to earn the maximum income in their first 2 months. After that it's maintenance mode until the servers close.

    +1

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  • calranthecalranthe stoke on trentPosts: 356Member
    Hate to burst your bubble but no PW game has shut down in the last 4 years and company profits from games including STO have soared, while I hate the model and hate what PWE does with there games they make a huge amount of money do a google search on there last years Financial reports, they make more money out of one of there f2p games than most ppm mmo games make lifetime which sucks.
  • red_cruiserred_cruiser Milwaukee, WIPosts: 472Member Uncommon

    Business model will kill this game... as a memorable MMORPG.  We're all going to pack up our bags after the fun is gone and move on to the next game.  Bored players from other games will move in and take our spots, and the shallow F2P cycle will continue.  I think the business model is more a symptom than a cause, but the end result will be the same.

    Subscription games aren't necessarily dead, but they need to smarten up.

  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph SarajevoPosts: 1,070Member Uncommon

    Players love that busines model , same as STO ,game is crap after seasson 5 but  players love it & spend RL money on  virtual items.

    I know players who spend 50+$ monthly in Z store,every month.

    only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  • SulaaSulaa nPosts: 1,151Member Common

    There are many people that will like this model and that's a fact. 

    Those that don't like this kind of business model, but are still playing it - well I think will have to experience it painfully a few times to realise that gaming world has changed and you need to start taking business model into account when deciding to play game or not.

    Noone gives a fcuk if you like this model - either business model is important to you enough so you will give up games because they have model you dislike or not.  

    That's cold harsh truth - if you bitch that you don't like that certain game have certain business model, but you do still play said game then your words does not matter and don't have creditibility. 

  • evictonevicton Warren, PAPosts: 398Member
    Originally posted by calranthe
    Hate to burst your bubble but no PW game has shut down in the last 4 years and company profits from games including STO have soared, while I hate the model and hate what PWE does with there games they make a huge amount of money do a google search on there last years Financial reports, they make more money out of one of there f2p games than most ppm mmo games make lifetime which sucks.

    This. If any pw game was gonna die from their business model it would be the seven year old PW itself.

  • ReizlaReizla AlkmaarPosts: 3,300Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by red_cruiser

    Subscription games aren't necessarily dead, but they need to smarten up.

    That much is true. I think with Free2Play games getting better and better (not only MMORPGs, but look at WarFrame for instance), paid games in general need to reconsider their payment model. For subscription games, perhaps lower the monthly fee required, which for a lot of MMORPGs out there would be a real good thing to get more players in. For the 'boxed' single player/co-op games, perhaps lower price and do as Warframe does and allow most items that can be obtained through playing the game be available through the cash shop as well (for a reasonable price).

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  • AyuroxAyurox Berche;Posts: 48Member Uncommon
    this is so true, alot of post have been made like this one on the forums but its going to land in def man's ears cause they dont care, ppl will keep buying zen for real money and make their wallets bigger and bigger !!!
  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,857Member Uncommon

    The issue with this game isn't F2P or P2P as much as what they're doing within that business model.  It's a really bad F2P model.

    At some point these companies will wise up and look at what LoL is doing.

  • KrytycalKrytycal Miami, FLPosts: 520Member
    At least it's not NCSoft.
  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,289Member Uncommon
    All this really highlights is just how 'ephemeral' F2P games really are, they are not meant to last, and it shows. The same however is not true for P2P games, that are designed with longevity in mind, which is why games like WoW and Eve are still going strong and show no signs of disappearing any time soon, which is something that can't really be said about the various F2P games which are popular one minute and then, their yesterdays news. The F2P game market isnt really all that robust, which might be because there are so many games all trying to feed out of the same trough. image
  • SupportPlayerMMSupportPlayerMM Lufkin, TXPosts: 310Member
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Subscription is dead.  Only room for a few subscription games and WoW and Eve have those people.  F2P is the future, which is odd because it ought to of been the past considering every other gaming genre has never had a subscription.  Do not recall ever paying for a subscription while playing Mortal Kombat or Madden NFL.

    This is a pretty horrible reply all in all... it's by far the least thought out response humanly possible outside of "no" as the only word reply. Mortal Kombat is a 2 player console game when MMO's came into creation providing the first, the very first environment for thousands to play together in a 3d world. Originally you paid a monthly fee to support servers and game development at a period when game development and servers were more expensive. Now the monthly fee should only exist if all content is free and no freakin items shops exist, games that use sub + item shop are belittling their community.

  • ghost047ghost047 montreal, QCPosts: 603Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Reizla
    Originally posted by red_cruiser

    Subscription games aren't necessarily dead, but they need to smarten up.

    That much is true. I think with Free2Play games getting better and better (not only MMORPGs, but look at WarFrame for instance), paid games in general need to reconsider their payment model. For subscription games, perhaps lower the monthly fee required, which for a lot of MMORPGs out there would be a real good thing to get more players in. For the 'boxed' single player/co-op games, perhaps lower price and do as Warframe does and allow most items that can be obtained through playing the game be available through the cash shop as well (for a reasonable price).

    Why would they do that, they have proven that F2P generate more money than F2P

    Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!

  • hockeyplayrhockeyplayr Middlesex, NJPosts: 604Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ragz45

    All they need to do is intrudce a TON of costume, fluff, and mount type items to the item store.  And then lower the prices across the board on the rest of the stuff.  League of Legends makes a TON of money, and they don't charge for anything other than skins (read fluff).

    The sooner FTP mmo's get this into their heads, the better off the entire ftp genre will be.  Players pay for fluff, players leave if ftp systems are more inconvenience than fun.

    I can attest to that.  Probably dropped like $200 in LoL between skins and champs, in about 6 months or so, maybe a little longer.

  • DeniZgDeniZg ZagrebPosts: 669Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Phry
    All this really highlights is just how 'ephemeral' F2P games really are, they are not meant to last, and it shows. The same however is not true for P2P games, that are designed with longevity in mind, which is why games like WoW and Eve are still going strong and show no signs of disappearing any time soon, which is something that can't really be said about the various F2P games which are popular one minute and then, their yesterdays news. The F2P game market isnt really all that robust, which might be because there are so many games all trying to feed out of the same trough. image

    Actually, it's quite the opposite of what you've mentioned.

    LoL is the most popular F2P, lasting for more than 3 years, highly profitable and is the most played online game in general. Even former P2P games converted to F2P have managed to remain on market and make money (LoTRO, STO, SWTOR etc.). Also, compared to P2P market, F2P market is much more profitable and will contintue to expand, as long as it remains that way.

    IMHO, business models don't kill games. It's the games' quality that does so. If some game is high quality product, it will thrive, no matter the business model.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,991Member Uncommon
    With the exception of a few titles, pretty much all MMOs follow the same pattern, start off big for a few months, then a big mass exodus, then stability as a smaller portion of the player base keeps the game going for many years to come.

    At the end of the day the payment model doesn't seem to effect this pattern all that much so I'm guessing this is more of a reflection on game design and not on what the payment model is.

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
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    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
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  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,289Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DeniZg
    Originally posted by Phry
    All this really highlights is just how 'ephemeral' F2P games really are, they are not meant to last, and it shows. The same however is not true for P2P games, that are designed with longevity in mind, which is why games like WoW and Eve are still going strong and show no signs of disappearing any time soon, which is something that can't really be said about the various F2P games which are popular one minute and then, their yesterdays news. The F2P game market isnt really all that robust, which might be because there are so many games all trying to feed out of the same trough. image

    Actually, it's quite the opposite of what you've mentioned.

    LoL is the most popular F2P, lasting for more than 3 years, highly profitable and is the most played online game in general. Even former P2P games converted to F2P have managed to remain on market and make money (LoTRO, STO, SWTOR etc.). Also, compared to P2P market, F2P market is much more profitable and will contintue to expand, as long as it remains that way.

    IMHO, business models don't kill games. It's the games' quality that does so. If some game is high quality product, it will thrive, no matter the business model.

    MOBA games arent MMO's and they have very low overheads, ie, no persistent world, and there arent really very many of them, i think LOL and DOTA are the only ones that really have any presence, but even they are at the mercy of any other developer that decides to make another MOBA, but that doesnt matter because games like LOL and DOTA arent designed with longevity in mind either, nor was farmville for that matter image

  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Phoenix, AZPosts: 823Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    I already fear for this game...the gameplay so far as been quite enjoyable, but it follows the same exact model every other Perfect world game did and died off.  Its basically rack in f2p cash with a really badly priced zen system, then when the community dies use that money to make another game. Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.  Should've launched as a subscription game in my opinion, thats where the commitment comes in from not only the players but the developers.  

    Not to worry, the rinse cycle is coming to an end. Cryptic/PWI has run out of big name titles to do this with. Short of spending a lot of money on an IP, they'll actually need to get creative and create an actual game to draw interest. Shockiing I know ? The problem with this F2P model is it doesn't lend itself to big front end financial exposure. So what'll happen is that big IP's will just sit and rot for the most part due to franchising costs.

    image
  • MadDemon64MadDemon64 Maplewood, NJPosts: 1,098Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AG-Vuk
    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    I already fear for this game...the gameplay so far as been quite enjoyable, but it follows the same exact model every other Perfect world game did and died off.  Its basically rack in f2p cash with a really badly priced zen system, then when the community dies use that money to make another game. Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.  Should've launched as a subscription game in my opinion, thats where the commitment comes in from not only the players but the developers.  

    Not to worry, the rinse cycle is coming to an end. Cryptic/PWI has run out of big name titles to do this with. Short of spending a lot of money on an IP, they'll actually need to get creative and create an actual game to draw interest. Shockiing I know ? The problem with this F2P model is it doesn't lend itself to big front end financial exposure. So what'll happen is that big IP's will just sit and rot for the most part due to franchising costs.

    Well seeing as how they have done it in the past and done it very well, we can expect good things from them when they decide to do this

    Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member
    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    I already fear for this game...the gameplay so far as been quite enjoyable, but it follows the same exact model every other Perfect world game did and died off.  Its basically rack in f2p cash with a really badly priced zen system, then when the community dies use that money to make another game. Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.  Should've launched as a subscription game in my opinion, thats where the commitment comes in from not only the players but the developers.  

    I don't get it... Where do poeple get the idea that subsciption games would last and that people who pay a monthly sub don't expect MORE from the game than those who don't pay on a monthly basis...

    Even more, sub games won't last in todays market unless they're really really good and let's face it... Neverwinter is nowhere near that quality to even consider that type of paymodel. The sooner you realise sub model is ancient history, the sooner you'll live a happy life :D

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  • ChrisboxChrisbox Monroe, NJPosts: 1,707Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by korent1991
    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    I already fear for this game...the gameplay so far as been quite enjoyable, but it follows the same exact model every other Perfect world game did and died off.  Its basically rack in f2p cash with a really badly priced zen system, then when the community dies use that money to make another game. Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.  Should've launched as a subscription game in my opinion, thats where the commitment comes in from not only the players but the developers.  

    I don't get it... Where do poeple get the idea that subsciption games would last and that people who pay a monthly sub don't expect MORE from the game than those who don't pay on a monthly basis...

    Even more, sub games won't last in todays market unless they're really really good and let's face it... Neverwinter is nowhere near that quality to even consider that type of paymodel. The sooner you realise sub model is ancient history, the sooner you'll live a happy life :D

    Because with sub games, if they're doing well they stay sub games and keep delivering content, and if they aren't doing well then they go f2p and you basically know the games being handled terribly.

    Played-Everything
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