issue with this game is its not as simple as you NEED the trinity.. but in my experience most dungeons post the first one get harder and harder without a set trinity team.. now its possible to complete many of them without a tank in my experience as long as people know how to move and move well and you have a decent cleric + wizard but overall these dungeons were made for a trinity team and run WAY smoother with one.
But who knows maybe a group of elite expert rogues could tackle every dungeon.. no clue, just posting on my experience trinity is there and is the way the game was designed around
Though most dungeons might be designed around the trinity, the dungeon finder (or skirmis/pvp-finder for that matter) doesn't take the trinity into account. It just picks the first 5 players available that are around the same level and drops them in a party. This would mean that random dungeons on higher levels might become a hell of a lot more difficult...
ha! that is true.. the need to revamp that dungeon finder imho to include a trinity matchup system
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
issue with this game is its not as simple as you NEED the trinity.. but in my experience most dungeons post the first one get harder and harder without a set trinity team.. now its possible to complete many of them without a tank in my experience as long as people know how to move and move well and you have a decent cleric + wizard but overall these dungeons were made for a trinity team and run WAY smoother with one.
But who knows maybe a group of elite expert rogues could tackle every dungeon.. no clue, just posting on my experience trinity is there and is the way the game was designed around
Though most dungeons might be designed around the trinity, the dungeon finder (or skirmis/pvp-finder for that matter) doesn't take the trinity into account. It just picks the first 5 players available that are around the same level and drops them in a party. This would mean that random dungeons on higher levels might become a hell of a lot more difficult...
I think there is some logic in it. I have not queued into a dungeon without a healer since the first dungeon zone. I'm a Gaurdian.
Having said that I find tanking in dungeons and skirmishes to be a pain. Mobs jump all around the area like crazy and agro control is flaky at best. You do get some tools in the 30's that help but compared to a tab targeting game I find tanking less refined. This might be more a issue with action games in general than specific to NW.
issue with this game is its not as simple as you NEED the trinity.. but in my experience most dungeons post the first one get harder and harder without a set trinity team.. now its possible to complete many of them without a tank in my experience as long as people know how to move and move well and you have a decent cleric + wizard but overall these dungeons were made for a trinity team and run WAY smoother with one.
But who knows maybe a group of elite expert rogues could tackle every dungeon.. no clue, just posting on my experience trinity is there and is the way the game was designed around
Though most dungeons might be designed around the trinity, the dungeon finder (or skirmis/pvp-finder for that matter) doesn't take the trinity into account. It just picks the first 5 players available that are around the same level and drops them in a party. This would mean that random dungeons on higher levels might become a hell of a lot more difficult...
I think there is some logic in it. I have not queued into a dungeon without a healer since the first dungeon zone. I'm a Gaurdian.
Having said that I find tanking in dungeons and skirmishes to be a pain. Mobs jump all around the area like crazy and agro control is flaky at best. You do get some tools in the 30's that help but compared to a tab targeting game I find tanking less refined. This might be more a issue with action games in general than specific to NW.
Im struggling with aggro big time, rogues pull it off easily. Im taking aggro feats now though and played around with my abilities so well see what happens as I level
I do like that the tank is not designed to tank everything though. the dps can deal with the adds without em being tanked.
Hmm not so sure about that... my rogue is constantly pulling aggro from everyone in boss fights. It's a neverending cycle of dodge/ run/stealth/attack for me. The only ones who can pull aggro off me reliably are other rogues... if I lay-off for a couple of seconds.
Imho, it's the guardians who need a boost in keeping aggro.
And I agree with what others are saying: there is no need to tank adds. We can handle those just fine. Tanks should concentrate on the boss.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
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“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
issue with this game is its not as simple as you NEED the trinity.. but in my experience most dungeons post the first one get harder and harder without a set trinity team.. now its possible to complete many of them without a tank in my experience as long as people know how to move and move well and you have a decent cleric + wizard but overall these dungeons were made for a trinity team and run WAY smoother with one.
But who knows maybe a group of elite expert rogues could tackle every dungeon.. no clue, just posting on my experience trinity is there and is the way the game was designed around
Though most dungeons might be designed around the trinity, the dungeon finder (or skirmis/pvp-finder for that matter) doesn't take the trinity into account. It just picks the first 5 players available that are around the same level and drops them in a party. This would mean that random dungeons on higher levels might become a hell of a lot more difficult...
I think there is some logic in it. I have not queued into a dungeon without a healer since the first dungeon zone. I'm a Gaurdian.
Having said that I find tanking in dungeons and skirmishes to be a pain. Mobs jump all around the area like crazy and agro control is flaky at best. You do get some tools in the 30's that help but compared to a tab targeting game I find tanking less refined. This might be more a issue with action games in general than specific to NW.
Ha ha! What you experience as tank to keep aggro up is what I experience with healing. Though I think healing is still a bit easier than tanking from what you tell. At least I can 'buff' de mob so that the party hitting it will add a small heal and I can 'target' the player to heal (unless they run around like crazy).
But indeed, the action-based combat system does make things harder as well as more interesting...
I'd honestly say the trinity is only half-needed, at least until you get to the epic dungeons, so level 60. My rogue is still low 50, but from what (reliable) people are saying, the top dungeons get rough.
The need for DPS: to be honest, few encounters have endless mobs spawning on a timer, so you could go full-cleric on a dungeon and still come out on top, if you feel like it.
The need for a healer: heck, YES!. Can't finish dungeons after level 20 without one. However, there are encounters where healers can shine or sink, depending on their ability to actually follow individual members around. And I will admit to being careless sometimes and driving healers mad trying to find me in the field.
The main problem: tanks.
1). They need to actually be really good to hold aggro. Most classes (rogues, wizards) have craploads of mobility and/or AOEs, so they soak up tons of aggro and usually move fast from one target to another. If a tank cannot keep up, he is 90% dead-weight and useless (the damage on guardians is not amazing, roughly 30% of a rogue or CW).
2). Many things in this game are not really meant to be tanked. They are meant to be dodged. A full, massive, head-on skill from some bosses can drop a tank's shield and his HP to almost half.
3). Most tanks don't understand that their purpose is to...tank. Most just rush the slow-moving boss and hug him trying to out DPS the rogue, instead of grabbing the weak, yet strong adds off the cleric or CW.
I'd honestly say the trinity is only half-needed, at least until you get to the epic dungeons, so level 60. My rogue is still low 50, but from what (reliable) people are saying, the top dungeons get rough.
The need for DPS: to be honest, few encounters have endless mobs spawning on a timer, so you could go full-cleric on a dungeon and still come out on top, if you feel like it.
The need for a healer: heck, YES!. Can't finish dungeons after level 20 without one. However, there are encounters where healers can shine or sink, depending on their ability to actually follow individual members around. And I will admit to being careless sometimes and driving healers mad trying to find me in the field.
The main problem: tanks.
1). They need to actually be really good to hold aggro. Most classes (rogues, wizards) have craploads of mobility and/or AOEs, so they soak up tons of aggro and usually move fast from one target to another. If a tank cannot keep up, he is 90% dead-weight and useless (the damage on guardians is not amazing, roughly 30% of a rogue or CW).
2). Many things in this game are not really meant to be tanked. They are meant to be dodged. A full, massive, head-on skill from some bosses can drop a tank's shield and his HP to almost half.
3). Most tanks don't understand that their purpose is to...tank. Most just rush the slow-moving boss and hug him trying to out DPS the rogue, instead of grabbing the weak, yet strong adds off the cleric or CW.
Everything you say would be a lot easier if people didn't spread out so much. I have yet to do a single dungeon where at some point I didn't see people spread out to all four courners of the room. It's impossible to both tank and heal when your DPS does stuff like that. If you want the tank to hold agro and if you want to get heals your best bet is to stick closer to them.
I'm only 40 but I have yet to met a dps class that can do 3 times my dps. Not even twice.
I'd honestly say the trinity is only half-needed, at least until you get to the epic dungeons, so level 60. My rogue is still low 50, but from what (reliable) people are saying, the top dungeons get rough.
The need for DPS: to be honest, few encounters have endless mobs spawning on a timer, so you could go full-cleric on a dungeon and still come out on top, if you feel like it.
The need for a healer: heck, YES!. Can't finish dungeons after level 20 without one. However, there are encounters where healers can shine or sink, depending on their ability to actually follow individual members around. And I will admit to being careless sometimes and driving healers mad trying to find me in the field.
The main problem: tanks.
1). They need to actually be really good to hold aggro. Most classes (rogues, wizards) have craploads of mobility and/or AOEs, so they soak up tons of aggro and usually move fast from one target to another. If a tank cannot keep up, he is 90% dead-weight and useless (the damage on guardians is not amazing, roughly 30% of a rogue or CW).
2). Many things in this game are not really meant to be tanked. They are meant to be dodged. A full, massive, head-on skill from some bosses can drop a tank's shield and his HP to almost half.
3). Most tanks don't understand that their purpose is to...tank. Most just rush the slow-moving boss and hug him trying to out DPS the rogue, instead of grabbing the weak, yet strong adds off the cleric or CW.
Everything you say would be a lot easier if people didn't spread out so much. I have yet to do a single dungeon where at some point I didn't see people spread out to all four courners of the room. It's impossible to both tank and heal when your DPS does stuff like that. If you want the tank to hold agro and if you want to get heals your best bet is to stick closer to them.
I'm only 40 but I have yet to met a dps class that can do 3 times my dps. Not even twice.
that's true I noticed lot of PUGs people are all over the place.. one reason though is the huge AOEs and a just the buttload of mobs makes it a bit harder to stay in closer to the team compared to other MMOs
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Originally posted by Vigg I'm curious now. It sounds like you need a group to do dungeons at 30+. Is there anything you can do SOLO at higher levels?
? its like most themeparks most all regular quests for the story and TONS of foundry missions can be taken solo but the main group dungeons require groups.. not sure i understand the question
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Originally posted by Vigg I guess my question was, what is there to do at higher level other than group dungeons?
everything else.. main story line.. plenty of side quests in the zones, skirmishes(which is technically a group thing but its basically a free for all), foundry missions.. same as any themepark MMO just with foundry you pretty much have a ton of options when it comes to side missions to fill out your time.. group dungeons are only a very small part of the games overall content
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Originally posted by Aerowyn Originally posted by ViggI guess my question was, what is there to do at higher level other than group dungeons?
everything else.. main story line.. plenty of side quests in the zones, skirmishes(which is technically a group thing but its basically a free for all), foundry missions.. same as any themepark MMO just with foundry you pretty much have a ton of options when it comes to side missions to fill out your time.. group dungeons are only a very small part of the games overall content But very few ways to advance your character. No epic loot from Foundry missions.
But even then if you run dungeons for epic loot you still have the horrible looting system to contend with.
Comments
ha! that is true.. the need to revamp that dungeon finder imho to include a trinity matchup system
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I think there is some logic in it. I have not queued into a dungeon without a healer since the first dungeon zone. I'm a Gaurdian.
Having said that I find tanking in dungeons and skirmishes to be a pain. Mobs jump all around the area like crazy and agro control is flaky at best. You do get some tools in the 30's that help but compared to a tab targeting game I find tanking less refined. This might be more a issue with action games in general than specific to NW.
Im struggling with aggro big time, rogues pull it off easily. Im taking aggro feats now though and played around with my abilities so well see what happens as I level
I do like that the tank is not designed to tank everything though. the dps can deal with the adds without em being tanked.
Hmm not so sure about that... my rogue is constantly pulling aggro from everyone in boss fights. It's a neverending cycle of dodge/ run/stealth/attack for me. The only ones who can pull aggro off me reliably are other rogues... if I lay-off for a couple of seconds.
Imho, it's the guardians who need a boost in keeping aggro.
And I agree with what others are saying: there is no need to tank adds. We can handle those just fine. Tanks should concentrate on the boss.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Ha ha! What you experience as tank to keep aggro up is what I experience with healing. Though I think healing is still a bit easier than tanking from what you tell. At least I can 'buff' de mob so that the party hitting it will add a small heal and I can 'target' the player to heal (unless they run around like crazy).
But indeed, the action-based combat system does make things harder as well as more interesting...
I'd honestly say the trinity is only half-needed, at least until you get to the epic dungeons, so level 60. My rogue is still low 50, but from what (reliable) people are saying, the top dungeons get rough.
The need for DPS: to be honest, few encounters have endless mobs spawning on a timer, so you could go full-cleric on a dungeon and still come out on top, if you feel like it.
The need for a healer: heck, YES!. Can't finish dungeons after level 20 without one. However, there are encounters where healers can shine or sink, depending on their ability to actually follow individual members around. And I will admit to being careless sometimes and driving healers mad trying to find me in the field.
The main problem: tanks.
1). They need to actually be really good to hold aggro. Most classes (rogues, wizards) have craploads of mobility and/or AOEs, so they soak up tons of aggro and usually move fast from one target to another. If a tank cannot keep up, he is 90% dead-weight and useless (the damage on guardians is not amazing, roughly 30% of a rogue or CW).
2). Many things in this game are not really meant to be tanked. They are meant to be dodged. A full, massive, head-on skill from some bosses can drop a tank's shield and his HP to almost half.
3). Most tanks don't understand that their purpose is to...tank. Most just rush the slow-moving boss and hug him trying to out DPS the rogue, instead of grabbing the weak, yet strong adds off the cleric or CW.
Everything you say would be a lot easier if people didn't spread out so much. I have yet to do a single dungeon where at some point I didn't see people spread out to all four courners of the room. It's impossible to both tank and heal when your DPS does stuff like that. If you want the tank to hold agro and if you want to get heals your best bet is to stick closer to them.
I'm only 40 but I have yet to met a dps class that can do 3 times my dps. Not even twice.
that's true I noticed lot of PUGs people are all over the place.. one reason though is the huge AOEs and a just the buttload of mobs makes it a bit harder to stay in closer to the team compared to other MMOs
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
? its like most themeparks most all regular quests for the story and TONS of foundry missions can be taken solo but the main group dungeons require groups.. not sure i understand the question
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
everything else.. main story line.. plenty of side quests in the zones, skirmishes(which is technically a group thing but its basically a free for all), foundry missions.. same as any themepark MMO just with foundry you pretty much have a ton of options when it comes to side missions to fill out your time.. group dungeons are only a very small part of the games overall content
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
But very few ways to advance your character. No epic loot from Foundry missions.
But even then if you run dungeons for epic loot you still have the horrible looting system to contend with.