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help me pick a new monitor

Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,113Member Uncommon

hey I am going to be setting up a pc for my son and he will inherit my wifes monitor, an acer x213hq.  Want to get something nicer for my wife.

 

Will be used primarily for gaming and web surfing, some videos etc, looking for something like 24" in size. Can't have bigger it wouldn't fit on the desk properly. Would like nice colors as well as a low response time.

I am really not up to date on monitors and what to avoid etc.  From what I have read I think most gamers go for a tn 120hz type monitor as the IPS monitors seem to be plagued with ghosting  and a high response time. I have also read that the LED backlit monitors have some bleeding issues so not sure I would want that.

 

Any advice peeps to get me started?  Oh the monitor currently in use has 5ms response time so anything like that or lower would be fine I am guessing.

 

 

case: Coolermaster HAF932
PSU: Antec EA 750watt
RAM: 2x2g G-SKILL DDR3-1600mhz 9-9-9-24
Mb:Gigabyte GA-P55-UD4P
CPU: i5-750 @4ghz
GPU: gtx msi N760 TF 2GD5/OC
cooling: Noctua NH-D14
storage: seagate 600 240GB SSD, 500GB x7200rpm HDD

Comments

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,783Member Uncommon

    Most gamers get a 60 Hz TN monitor just because it's cheapest.  120 Hz will take several milliseconds off of the average display latency just because it's 120 Hz rather than 60 Hz, but they tend to have rather poor image quality.

    Most types IPS monitors have awful display latency, often in the ballpark of 30 ms or so.  They may look beautiful, but an extra 30 ms display latency is roughly the difference between a high end and a low end gaming rig.

    The compromise in the middle is eIPS, which has display latency a little worse than TN, but still usually under 10 ms.  eIPS also offers better image quality than TN, and isn't as expensive as most other types of IPS.  That might be what you're looking for.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    If I buy a new monitor, it's going to be this:

    http://www.amazon.com/PB278Q-27-Inch-LED-lit-Professional-Graphics/dp/B009C3M7H0/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1367613046&sr=8-6&keywords=27+inch+monitor

    • Panel Type: PLS panel
    • Panel Size: 27-inch Widescreen (16:9 aspect ratio)
    • True Resolution: 2560x1440
    • Color Saturation: 100% (sRGB)
    • Pixel Pitch: 0.233mm
    • Brightness(Max): 300 cd/m2
    • Contrast Ratio (Max): 80,000,000:1 
    • Display Color: 16.7 million
    • Viewing Angle (CR>=10): 178°(H)/178°(V)
    • Response Time: 5ms (Gray-to-Gray)
    • Video Features:
      • Splendid Video Preset Modes (5 modes)
      • Color Temperature (4 modes)
      • HDCP Support
      • Support Gamma 2.2 & 1.8
      • QuickFit (4 modes)
    • Convenient Hotkey:
      • Splendid Video Preset Mode Selection
      • Auto Adjustment
      • Brightness Adjustment
      • Input Selection
      • QuickFit
    • Signal Input: HDMI 1.4/ DisplayPort 1.2, Dual-link DVI, and D-Sub
    • PC Audio Input: 5 mm Mini-jack
    • AV Audio Input: HDMI 1.4
    • Earphone Jack: 3.5 mm mini-jack
    • Analog Signal Frequency: 24 ~ 89kHz(H)/ 50 ~ 75 Hz(V)
    • Digital Signal Frequency: 24 ~ 89KHz(H)/ 50 ~ 75 Hz(V)
    • Power Consumption: Normal < 60 W ; Power Saving Mode ≤ 0.5 W; Power off mode: 0.5 W (hard switch)
    • Chassis Colors: Black
    • Tilt: -5-degress ~ + 20-degrees
    • Swivel: +60-degrees ~ -60-degrees
    • Pivot: 90-degrees (clockwise)
    • Height Adjustment: 0 ~ 120mm
    • VESA Wall Mounting: 100mm x 100mm  
    • Security: Kensington Lock
    • Phys. Dimension (W x H x D): 25.3x21.7x8.6–inches
    • Weight (estimated): 19.4 lbs
    • Regulation Approval: Energy Star, TCO 5.2, UL/cUL, CB, CE, FCC, CCC, ISO9241-307, BSMI, Gost-R, C-Tick, VCCI, PSE, J-MOSS, RoHS, Windows 7 WHQL
  • RidelynnRidelynn Fresno, CAPosts: 4,178Member Uncommon

    My generic advise about monitors:

    Ignore all the specs, and the online reviews, and the advice.

    Go look at them. Even if you intend to buy online for cheaper, go into a store and look at them.

    Your eyes will tell you want looks good; and what looks good to you may (or may not) look as good to someone else. The printed specs are mostly made up marketing BS - and there's no way you can really judge a monitor based on what their marketing department decided to print on the box.

    Monitor quality is extremely subjective. What is fine for one person may be horrible for the next. The only way your going to know is by looking for yourself.

    Personally, I won't look at anything besides eIPS, but I know a lot of people that won't look at anything besides 120Hz TN, and I think they looked like the most washed out grainy crap I've ever seen - but to each their own, and it's not that I'm right or wrong, it's that we all see it differently.

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,133Member Uncommon

    There is a thread here about monitors thats interesting

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=1825413

     

    The monitors listed are apparantly good for both gaming and porn.  

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,113Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Most gamers get a 60 Hz TN monitor just because it's cheapest.  120 Hz will take several milliseconds off of the average display latency just because it's 120 Hz rather than 60 Hz, but they tend to have rather poor image quality.

    Most types IPS monitors have awful display latency, often in the ballpark of 30 ms or so.  They may look beautiful, but an extra 30 ms display latency is roughly the difference between a high end and a low end gaming rig.

    The compromise in the middle is eIPS, which has display latency a little worse than TN, but still usually under 10 ms.  eIPS also offers better image quality than TN, and isn't as expensive as most other types of IPS.  That might be what you're looking for.

    Are you saying the 120hz moniters but have a lesser image quality than a 60hz ?

     

    @badspock Like I said in my OP I don't want anything over 24".

    @Ridelynn Thats what I usaully do for my tv and the like but I live far far far far out in the boonies and and the places around here have the same 2 or 3 models.

     

    @eyelolled Thanx for the link,btw I watch my porn on my 47" sony bravia hdtv which is also what my pc is hooked up too and I enjoy it greatly, except when playing games that don't let you adjust font size. AH lol that thread you link me too is like 7 years old - 03-08-2006, 08:07 PM so not very relevant.

     

    Ridelynn Do you game very much and if so hows those eIPS do with the bleeding, tearing and input lag etc? 

     

     

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
    PSU: Antec EA 750watt
    RAM: 2x2g G-SKILL DDR3-1600mhz 9-9-9-24
    Mb:Gigabyte GA-P55-UD4P
    CPU: i5-750 @4ghz
    GPU: gtx msi N760 TF 2GD5/OC
    cooling: Noctua NH-D14
    storage: seagate 600 240GB SSD, 500GB x7200rpm HDD

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,133Member Uncommon

    yeah, I had someone point that thread out to me a while back and I got a good chuckle out of it, definately outdated though.

     

    :)

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,113Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by eyelolled

    yeah, I had someone point that thread out to me a while back and I got a good chuckle out of it, definately outdated though.

     

    :)

    yeah the sticky comment made me chuckle too lol

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
    PSU: Antec EA 750watt
    RAM: 2x2g G-SKILL DDR3-1600mhz 9-9-9-24
    Mb:Gigabyte GA-P55-UD4P
    CPU: i5-750 @4ghz
    GPU: gtx msi N760 TF 2GD5/OC
    cooling: Noctua NH-D14
    storage: seagate 600 240GB SSD, 500GB x7200rpm HDD

  • RidelynnRidelynn Fresno, CAPosts: 4,178Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Asm0deus
    Ridelynn Do you game very much and if so hows those eIPS do with the bleeding, tearing and input lag etc?

    I do a lot of MMO gaming - not very much FPS/twitch style gaming though.

    The monitor I have now (Dell U2412M), I don't have any appreciable bleeding. I'm sure if you stuck some monitor tester up there you could pick some up, but it's not nearly as bad as the panels on my iMac or MacBook Pro monitors. The black levels are very good, the colors rich and consistent across the screen, the viewing angles are nice, and I am very happy with the monitor in general. Someone else posted about the 27" version of this monitor and had horrible problems with bleed through - the 24 and 27" versions obviously use different LCD panels, but the lesson there is just because one model works well doesn't automatically mean every other model in the same model line will.

    I do get some tearing in certain game engines - Unreal engine is particularly bad, but I think this is more to do with the game engine than the monitor, because it also happens on all the other screens I've used. I typically use VSync anyway, and this all but eliminates tearing in the first place.

    Input lag - nothing appreciable that I have noticed, but then again I have no way to test it and I typically play games where 50ms lag isn't a big deal ~ if you were trying to play something competitive where every millisecond counts then maybe there is something there, but I can't feel it.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,783Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Asm0deus
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Most gamers get a 60 Hz TN monitor just because it's cheapest.  120 Hz will take several milliseconds off of the average display latency just because it's 120 Hz rather than 60 Hz, but they tend to have rather poor image quality.

    Most types IPS monitors have awful display latency, often in the ballpark of 30 ms or so.  They may look beautiful, but an extra 30 ms display latency is roughly the difference between a high end and a low end gaming rig.

    The compromise in the middle is eIPS, which has display latency a little worse than TN, but still usually under 10 ms.  eIPS also offers better image quality than TN, and isn't as expensive as most other types of IPS.  That might be what you're looking for.

    Are you saying the 120hz moniters but have a lesser image quality than a 60hz ?

    A 120 Hz TN monitor isn't necessarily any worse in any way than a 60 Hz TN monitor.  But the image quality is going to be much worse than you'd expect to get from any sort of IPS monitor because you're stuck with TN.

    120 Hz is approximately one frame per 8.3 ms, while 60 Hz is one per 16.7 ms.  An average moment in time is halfway between two frames, so if we assume for the sake of simplicity that a monitor instantly warps from one frame to the next (even though it's false, but that's okay because it doesn't bias the computations), then on average, when you look at a 120 Hz monitor, the frame has been up for 4.2 ms, as compared to 8.3 ms for a 60 Hz monitor.  So on average, the 120 Hz monitor only takes about 4.2 ms off of your display latency.  And even that assumes that you've got hardware that can deliver 120 Hz frame rates to the 120 Hz monitor, which is much harder to do than 60 frames per second to the 60 Hz monitor; if your video card can only do 60 frames per second either way, it cuts down on the advantage of 120 Hz somewhat.

    The difference between TN and eIPS can also be about that.  If you're comparing 120 Hz TN versus 60 Hz eIPS, then you get an average display latency difference in the ballpark of 10 ms.  That's enough that if you used one for a while and then used the other for a while, you could likely tell the difference.  But it's not enough to be a huge problem.

    Obviously, you'd rather have that 10 ms faster display latency.  But you'd also rather have the higher image quality of any sort of IPS rather than a TN monitor.  Alas, the current state of technology is that you can't have both at once, so it's a question of trade-offs.

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,113Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Asm0deus
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Most gamers get a 60 Hz TN monitor just because it's cheapest.  120 Hz will take several milliseconds off of the average display latency just because it's 120 Hz rather than 60 Hz, but they tend to have rather poor image quality.

    Most types IPS monitors have awful display latency, often in the ballpark of 30 ms or so.  They may look beautiful, but an extra 30 ms display latency is roughly the difference between a high end and a low end gaming rig.

    The compromise in the middle is eIPS, which has display latency a little worse than TN, but still usually under 10 ms.  eIPS also offers better image quality than TN, and isn't as expensive as most other types of IPS.  That might be what you're looking for.

    Are you saying the 120hz moniters but have a lesser image quality than a 60hz ?

    A 120 Hz TN monitor isn't necessarily any worse in any way than a 60 Hz TN monitor.  But the image quality is going to be much worse than you'd expect to get from any sort of IPS monitor because you're stuck with TN.

    120 Hz is approximately one frame per 8.3 ms, while 60 Hz is one per 16.7 ms.  An average moment in time is halfway between two frames, so if we assume for the sake of simplicity that a monitor instantly warps from one frame to the next (even though it's false, but that's okay because it doesn't bias the computations), then on average, when you look at a 120 Hz monitor, the frame has been up for 4.2 ms, as compared to 8.3 ms for a 60 Hz monitor.  So on average, the 120 Hz monitor only takes about 4.2 ms off of your display latency.  And even that assumes that you've got hardware that can deliver 120 Hz frame rates to the 120 Hz monitor, which is much harder to do than 60 frames per second to the 60 Hz monitor; if your video card can only do 60 frames per second either way, it cuts down on the advantage of 120 Hz somewhat.

    The difference between TN and eIPS can also be about that.  If you're comparing 120 Hz TN versus 60 Hz eIPS, then you get an average display latency difference in the ballpark of 10 ms.  That's enough that if you used one for a while and then used the other for a while, you could likely tell the difference.  But it's not enough to be a huge problem.

    Obviously, you'd rather have that 10 ms faster display latency.  But you'd also rather have the higher image quality of any sort of IPS rather than a TN monitor.  Alas, the current state of technology is that you can't have both at once, so it's a question of trade-offs.

    Ah ya, you were comparing 120hz to 60 hz and then stated lack of image quality so it read like you meant between the the 60 and 120 hz tn rather than the tn and ips and that just didn't seem to make sense to me lol.

     

    What the differenct between eIPS, IPS  and sIPS, just price and quality or is there more to it regarding response times etc.

     

    That Dell one Ridelynn mentioned seems kind of interesting especially since I don't play many fps games and my wife was never a fan of those ones to start with.

     

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
    PSU: Antec EA 750watt
    RAM: 2x2g G-SKILL DDR3-1600mhz 9-9-9-24
    Mb:Gigabyte GA-P55-UD4P
    CPU: i5-750 @4ghz
    GPU: gtx msi N760 TF 2GD5/OC
    cooling: Noctua NH-D14
    storage: seagate 600 240GB SSD, 500GB x7200rpm HDD

  • RidelynnRidelynn Fresno, CAPosts: 4,178Member Uncommon

    The Dell U2412M is a bit pricer than most, it specifically supports 16x10 resolution (1920x1200) and has DisplayPort input, both of which I required, but for most people, DVI/HDMI and 1080p is good enough.

    If you can drop either, or both, of those requirements you can get basically the same monitor for a lot less money.

    The biggest difference between TN, IPS, and eIPS:

    A decent write-up here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD

    The basic difference is how the crystals work internally. You basically have a plane of two polarized crystals, and you electrically shift one of them to allow more or less light to pass though. How you align those crystals up initially, and turn them, makes the difference in the panel.

    TN manufacturing has been around for ages, so it's very mature (i.e. inexpensive), and is to the point now where it's had a lot of refinements. The biggest problem with TN panels is with how the crystals lay: it produces a very narrow field of view, and if you stray from that (particularly vertically) the colors skew (because of the polarization of the crystals). Most cheaper TN panels only have 18-bit color and have to dither to present the full 24-bits that computers produce (you will see DirectX/Video card drivers say 32-bits, but 8 of those bits are transparency, the other 24 are color) -- and hence many TN panels will appear somewhat washed out or grainy (or at least, they do to me).

    IPS hasn't been around nearly as long. It's biggest advantage is that it has a much wider field of view: the colors are more vivid, and the angle at which it starts to distort/skew colors is much larger. Nearly all IPS panels support full 24-bit color, and "Professional" panels support 30-bit color. The tradeoff is that because the crystals are aligned differently, they can't move quite as fast.

    Nearly all consumer IPS panels are eIPS, which is just one variation that has an improved switching time. They have a wider crystal spread than other variations, which makes bleed through a particular problem, but the wider spread lets then use cheaper backlights, allows for faster switching, and gives them an even wider viewing angle.

    If you are talking Grey-to-Grey standard switching times, TN panels probably average somewhere around 4-5ms, eIPS around 8-12ms.

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