Originally posted by Ramonski7 And Kickstarter would like to have a word with you...
When you kickstart you choose to cross the line from consumer to investor. Your point is invalid.
Those that kickstart a project are not investors they're backers. Backers are not looking for monetary gains. Investors are. Backers are hoping for a product they can enjoy when they spend money backing a game, so do those playing any mmo. Including the ones in open beta. To recap:
Investors back a mmo to make money
Backers back a mmo to hopefully one day enjoy it.
Players in open beta back a mmo to enjoy it.
Having a different motive than a financial investor doesn't change the fact that you are investing money in a product in order to fund its development.
Then by all means count everyone spending money in Neverwinter's open beta as investors because according to you, they're doing the same thing...it's still in development until it officially launches. Good day.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Originally posted by Ramonski7 And Kickstarter would like to have a word with you...
When you kickstart you choose to cross the line from consumer to investor. Your point is invalid.
Those that kickstart a project are not investors they're backers. Backers are not looking for monetary gains. Investors are. Backers are hoping for a product they can enjoy when they spend money backing a game, so do those playing any mmo. Including the ones in open beta. To recap:
Investors back a mmo to make money
Backers back a mmo to hopefully one day enjoy it.
Players in open beta back a mmo to enjoy it.
Having a different motive than a financial investor doesn't change the fact that you are investing money in a product in order to fund its development.
Then by all means count everyone spending money in Neverwinter's open beta as investors because according to you, they're doing the same thing...it's still in development until it officially launches. Good day.
That was exactly my original point. Glad you see it now
Ok I agree the game is not perfect but if you are even thinking of comparing Neverwinter with WoW you are insane, WoW has been out for years also had multiple DLC's and did you know that it takes months even years after release for the game to even get better as they keep developing it.
Not Tab targeting game laughing out loud, it has a reticle which you use to aim in the direction you want to swing/hit.
Yes. The character creation is really good, even has the extra tab to customize face, body, tattoos so on. Not a big deal when you think about it you have armor on and including a helmet which is really hard to see any of it but yes it has much more customising then other games.
About the Guild creation, relax its not the end of the world, it takes like 2 hours to get to level 15.
Its not a starting zone laughing out loud, it is your home, the fight is in Neverwinter not at your home location, doesn’t everyone have a home to go to after the war is over? Yes you do get to go to that location you picked sooner or later.
You get so much experience when doing instance/skirmish, also the rewards are given to you by your quest giver after completing the instance/skirmish.
You choose not to buy founder pack to support the game and development and you expect to be first in line to login? I have founder pack and I never have to wait or have issues getting into game.
I agree the cash shop is kinda expensive. But $60 for mount, companion and other stuff is not bad IMO. Are you just assuming that you can buy best gear by just paying for it? Not sure how you come across this but the purple gear at level 60 you can only get by doing instance. You can buy some purple gear but its not the same gear.
You can respect with in game currency.
Makes me think you are talking from someone else’s mouth and not your own.
(Yes my spelling is bad thanks for telling me, english is my 5th language, Take It Easy, Will Ya?)
Originally posted by Ramonski7 And Kickstarter would like to have a word with you...
When you kickstart you choose to cross the line from consumer to investor. Your point is invalid.
Those that kickstart a project are not investors they're backers. Backers are not looking for monetary gains. Investors are. Backers are hoping for a product they can enjoy when they spend money backing a game, so do those playing any mmo. Including the ones in open beta. To recap:
Investors back a mmo to make money
Backers back a mmo to hopefully one day enjoy it.
Players in open beta back a mmo to enjoy it.
Having a different motive than a financial investor doesn't change the fact that you are investing money in a product in order to fund its development.
Then by all means count everyone spending money in Neverwinter's open beta as investors because according to you, they're doing the same thing...it's still in development until it officially launches. Good day.
That was exactly my original point. Glad you see it now
Oh ok I didn't know which way you were going because of this contradiction:
P.S. When a game is released in any manner which either requires a purchase, or a manner which accepts money from consumers in the form of a cash shop... at that point it is a consumer product and normal consumer expectations are in place. There is no excuse for releasing a product to consumers and accepting payment from them if the product is not ready for release. Investors are supposed to fund the development of games, not consumers.
Because NW charges money and is not polished to Ragana's status quo (which happens to be based on a 10 year old mmo). I was simply stating that the "excuse" is, they are in open beta. And being in open beta accounts for both the percieved reason of a lack of polish (Ragana) and reason they are taking money (You). But ultimately it will be up to the company when they feel the game is ready to be released. Not you, not me and definitely not someone who quit at level 10.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Servers: Who in their right minds thought that three servers would be enough? 20,000 people ques are not a good thing..
Cash shop: I understand that it's a F2P title, I honestly do.. but this has one of the most outrageous cash shops of any game I played. Want to respec? $7. Want to buy the best armor in the game? It's in the cash shop... Yes, you can earn it all by questing and grinding but at this rate, it would take you five to six times longer than someone who just purchased it outright. Things need to balance out a bit.
You actually can't buy armor in the cash shop, just cosmetic armor that you can use to replace the look of your current armor to make it look awesome, but otherwise, it is statless and completely useless.
Also, for the prices of cash shop items, this is just a theory, but maybe it is so expensive because Cryptic is planning on releasing future classes and races, things that would normally be the most expensive stuff in the cash shop, for free?
They don't release free archtypes in Champions Online, you have to purchase them. The same for Star Trek Online, there are cash shop only ships with very nice advantages over standard ships. The new romulan expansion will not allow you to get access to the new romulan ships unless you purchase them from the shop or purchase the expansion pack bundles, which kind of goes against the F2P motto of not charging for the game client. I therefore have serious doubts that any classes will be released outside of the cash shop venue with possible exception for the last unannounced beta class.
I actually didn't get the impression that Ragana was quitting after level 10. I was under the impression that he was sharing his early impression of what he's experienced up to level 10.
The email I received from Perfect World used the term open beta. So in my opinion that is not a misrepresentation. I've seen on other websites, may have even been this one, the word launch used. That seems to be a bit of misinformation. Then I've also seen the term soft launch. "Soft launch" has the word launch in it and does not have the word beta in it. Seems like they're muddying the waters in their favor to excuse the game state not being launch ready. But if they're not going to wipe servers... is it a lunch or is it beta?
I actually didn't get the impression that Ragana was quitting after level 10. I was under the impression that he was sharing his early impression of what he's experienced up to level 10.
The email I received from Perfect World used the term open beta. So in my opinion that is not a misrepresentation. I've seen on other websites, may have even been this one, the word launch used. That seems to be a bit of misinformation. Then I've also seen the term soft launch. "Soft launch" has the word launch in it and does not have the word beta in it. Seems like they're muddying the waters in their favor to excuse the game state not being launch ready. But if they're not going to wipe servers... is it a lunch or is it beta?
I actually ended up hitting level 24 and decided to call it quits
I'm sure many of you will come in waves telling me how I'm a fool, I have yet to see the best parts of the game, all the fun starts at level 25, etc.. etc.. that's fine. I'm glad you are all enjoying Neverwinter, I truly am. That being said, blindly loving the game and shutting your eyes to all criticism will not make the blatant flaws go away.
It seems to me everyone believes comparing a newer mmo to an older mmo is bad. Ya sure, the older mmo has been out for a longer period of time, thus it will have more content and less bugs ...?
... Wait 1 second? Then how come newer mmos are even made if the older ones are just always going to be better? That older mmo will always have the extra years. That means, no newer mmo will ever match an older one.
Example - Old game released in 2010.
New game released in 2015
People complain new game is not as good as old game.
Other people say old game has been out longer so you have to wait for bugs and content to be released.
5 years later, 2020, old game is still 5 years older and stil has more content. New game has died.
My point here is that comparing is very important. The game industry is a competition just as any other business is. If you want to dive into the competition, you are going to need to release a better game then what is already currently out. This is very hard in the mmo market as games are always constantly being updated.
We are not seeing much progress.
The only other way is to come up with something new, something inovative compared to what is already out. The best move for an mmo developer now in my opinion is to develop for the Oculus Rift, which will offer an experience that no current mmo has.
I may be new to this forums, but let me point out the things that are ONLY available in cash shop:
To craft top-notch equipment you need tools that increases their quality. They are available ONLY by buing booster packs from CS, the in game vendor sells only gray ones that cannot be upgraded. It can be also obtained by doing Leadersheep assignment but on INSANELY slow pace.
To craft epic gear you need a special ingredient called Dragon Egg only obtainable by openig lockboxes from CS or from actual founders game packs
You CAN buy a gear in a cash, and actually it is one of the best gears out there (+6 purples). How? You need Tarmalune Trade Bars, which you can obtain ONLY by opening Nightmare Lockbox, you need a key to do that from CS ONLY. Key's can be traded. One box contains ~10 bars, and gear prices are like 1000, cant really remember, but this means you need to open MULTIPLE lockboxes to get the gear if you commit to it.
Purple enchants - the ones for purple slots in gear - the chance of fusing them is 1% . You probably want to buy a ward from CS that guarantees you successful fuse. You need 21 wars in total to create rank 4 enchant (you start from rank 1). You have a chance to get one war from a chest bought by Celestial Coins or Astral - cat remembte - once a WEEK. This meens you need 21 weeks to successfully fuse greater enchant if you are extremly lucky and gets a ward from every chest.
Best companions in the game are from CS
If you didn't buy mounts from the store, you need to buy upgrade tomes for 700k Astral Diamond and next upgrade for ~2 Mln AD, if you want to speed them up.
Of course you can buy all those things by exchanging Astral Diamons for CS money, current rate is around 430 AD : 1 ZEN. For a ONE bag - not an ulock - you need 1000 ZEN, this so around 430 000 AD. There is a catch - you can only get at best 24 000 AD PER DAY - no way to farm more. For just the bag you need 18 days of constant farm of AD, and you basically lose all your income, gold is worthless in this game.
Cash shop will kill this game.
This game is fun to play for a while, but needs a lot of polish (crafting leveling curve is STIUPID, most efficient way is doing lvl 1 assignment), foundry is neat, but boss mechanics are EXTRAMELY simple "dont stand in fire" kind, s there is no challange other than constant farm for what you cannot afford from CS.
Alrighhty.. I hit level 10 on my Control Wizard so I figured I'd share some of my thoughts..
The Good:
Character creation- As many others have pointed out, the character creator in this game is pretty deep and gives you a ton to pick from.
Combat- The combat I like a lot. While it's still tab targetting, with the constant dodging, CC's, etc.. it feels pretty much fluid and action-packed.
The Bad:
The game is not polished- I don't want to bring up WoW but when you play a triple A title and then go to something like Neverwinter, the difference is extremely blatant. For instance, my friends and I tried to create a guild. We got a full party, everyone was in the same zone, etc.. I tried clicking on the guild master to officially form it but the "create" option was grayed out. We met the requirements but nothing was happening. Later on, I passed the lead to another member and he found out that the creator needed to be a founder. We passed the leadership on once again and all the sudden the members had to be level 15.
Something that should be completely straight-forward is all the sudden extremely obscure.
In addition to the guild creation, other aspects of the character creator were confusing as well. I chose my starting zone on the map while making my CM and yet I spawned in Neverwinter just like all of my other friends.. I'm assuming that's a bug or I end up there later on in the game but I was curious what was the point of the choice at all if it doesn't really impact anything. In GW2 when you create your character's story, the decisions actually somewhat impact your quests and whatnot.
Skirmish Rewards: So after logging in a second time around, a pop-up came up urging me to run a skirmish. I joined a que, waited 10 mins and got into the thick of things. After killing off zombies and some sort of skeleton king, the reward was 2 silver. That's it. Thinking that can't be right, I ran it twice more and nothing changed.. Questing and killing mobs is a faster method of leveling so I don't see any point as of now to even bother with the skirmishes.
The UGLY:
Servers: Who in their right minds thought that three servers would be enough? 20,000 people ques are not a good thing..
Cash shop: I understand that it's a F2P title, I honestly do.. but this has one of the most outrageous cash shops of any game I played. Want to respec? $7. Want to buy the best armor in the game? It's in the cash shop... Yes, you can earn it all by questing and grinding but at this rate, it would take you five to six times longer than someone who just purchased it outright. Things need to balance out a bit.
Final Thoughts:
I'll keep playing and see how the game is later on. So far the quests have been pretty much and I really enjoy the Control Wizard's mechanics. Unless the PvP is half-decent or there is some sort of casual end-game, I honestly don't see this holding the attention of many players past the first month mark. I guess only time will tell.
I get this is your impression but there is a lot of mis-information in your post. Getting to level 10 really isn't indicative of the experience you will have but it is of course your impression... I found the game changes quite a bit at 16 and again at 30.
The majority of the cash shop is conveniences - faster mounts, bonus XP, bigger bags..better companions that will level higher. There isn't any gear there unless you count the initial weapon that comes with the founders packs (Obsolete by level 14 or so)
I also recall the WOW launch and depending on what server you were on, the game was unplayable. Neverwinter has a que issue the day of launch that was corrected the next day. There has been some server mainenance but overall the game is pretty stable.
Player created content... The Foundry? Maybe check that out. Personally, I think its a game changer...
Comments
Then by all means count everyone spending money in Neverwinter's open beta as investors because according to you, they're doing the same thing...it's still in development until it officially launches. Good day.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
That was exactly my original point. Glad you see it now
Ok I agree the game is not perfect but if you are even thinking of comparing Neverwinter with WoW you are insane, WoW has been out for years also had multiple DLC's and did you know that it takes months even years after release for the game to even get better as they keep developing it.
Not Tab targeting game laughing out loud, it has a reticle which you use to aim in the direction you want to swing/hit.
Yes. The character creation is really good, even has the extra tab to customize face, body, tattoos so on. Not a big deal when you think about it you have armor on and including a helmet which is really hard to see any of it but yes it has much more customising then other games.
About the Guild creation, relax its not the end of the world, it takes like 2 hours to get to level 15.
Its not a starting zone laughing out loud, it is your home, the fight is in Neverwinter not at your home location, doesn’t everyone have a home to go to after the war is over? Yes you do get to go to that location you picked sooner or later.
You get so much experience when doing instance/skirmish, also the rewards are given to you by your quest giver after completing the instance/skirmish.
You choose not to buy founder pack to support the game and development and you expect to be first in line to login? I have founder pack and I never have to wait or have issues getting into game.
I agree the cash shop is kinda expensive. But $60 for mount, companion and other stuff is not bad IMO. Are you just assuming that you can buy best gear by just paying for it? Not sure how you come across this but the purple gear at level 60 you can only get by doing instance. You can buy some purple gear but its not the same gear.
You can respect with in game currency.
Makes me think you are talking from someone else’s mouth and not your own.
(Yes my spelling is bad thanks for telling me, english is my 5th language, Take It Easy, Will Ya?)
Oh ok I didn't know which way you were going because of this contradiction:
P.S. When a game is released in any manner which either requires a purchase, or a manner which accepts money from consumers in the form of a cash shop... at that point it is a consumer product and normal consumer expectations are in place. There is no excuse for releasing a product to consumers and accepting payment from them if the product is not ready for release. Investors are supposed to fund the development of games, not consumers.
Because NW charges money and is not polished to Ragana's status quo (which happens to be based on a 10 year old mmo). I was simply stating that the "excuse" is, they are in open beta. And being in open beta accounts for both the percieved reason of a lack of polish (Ragana) and reason they are taking money (You). But ultimately it will be up to the company when they feel the game is ready to be released. Not you, not me and definitely not someone who quit at level 10.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
They don't release free archtypes in Champions Online, you have to purchase them. The same for Star Trek Online, there are cash shop only ships with very nice advantages over standard ships. The new romulan expansion will not allow you to get access to the new romulan ships unless you purchase them from the shop or purchase the expansion pack bundles, which kind of goes against the F2P motto of not charging for the game client. I therefore have serious doubts that any classes will be released outside of the cash shop venue with possible exception for the last unannounced beta class.
I actually didn't get the impression that Ragana was quitting after level 10. I was under the impression that he was sharing his early impression of what he's experienced up to level 10.
The email I received from Perfect World used the term open beta. So in my opinion that is not a misrepresentation. I've seen on other websites, may have even been this one, the word launch used. That seems to be a bit of misinformation. Then I've also seen the term soft launch. "Soft launch" has the word launch in it and does not have the word beta in it. Seems like they're muddying the waters in their favor to excuse the game state not being launch ready. But if they're not going to wipe servers... is it a lunch or is it beta?
I actually ended up hitting level 24 and decided to call it quits
I'm sure many of you will come in waves telling me how I'm a fool, I have yet to see the best parts of the game, all the fun starts at level 25, etc.. etc.. that's fine. I'm glad you are all enjoying Neverwinter, I truly am. That being said, blindly loving the game and shutting your eyes to all criticism will not make the blatant flaws go away.
Veni, Vidi, Vici
Everyone pointing out good bad and ugly...graphics are not ugly but the game is bad...really bad.
just as bad as wizardry online lol....its actually so bad i started to laugh at one point because of all the time these people
put into it to develop it ..Its going to crash and burn so fast.
Im surprised no one else has seen what this FOUNDRY really is lol
Its cryptics way of being lazy and leaving a portion of the game for players to develop..
you may as well dl UDK and make your own crappy game.
I just hope ESO will not also be such a let down..I bet the people at Bethesda are loving this..
what competition right.. If you cant see it now you will isn a few weeks when even the pretty colors start to fade and you
realize this is a huge let down..enjoy while you can..
One last thing ...others have mentioned, do they really think people will pay those prices for these cosmetic upgrades and such..
It seems to me everyone believes comparing a newer mmo to an older mmo is bad. Ya sure, the older mmo has been out for a longer period of time, thus it will have more content and less bugs ...?
... Wait 1 second? Then how come newer mmos are even made if the older ones are just always going to be better? That older mmo will always have the extra years. That means, no newer mmo will ever match an older one.
Example - Old game released in 2010.
New game released in 2015
People complain new game is not as good as old game.
Other people say old game has been out longer so you have to wait for bugs and content to be released.
5 years later, 2020, old game is still 5 years older and stil has more content. New game has died.
My point here is that comparing is very important. The game industry is a competition just as any other business is. If you want to dive into the competition, you are going to need to release a better game then what is already currently out. This is very hard in the mmo market as games are always constantly being updated.
We are not seeing much progress.
The only other way is to come up with something new, something inovative compared to what is already out. The best move for an mmo developer now in my opinion is to develop for the Oculus Rift, which will offer an experience that no current mmo has.
I may be new to this forums, but let me point out the things that are ONLY available in cash shop:
I get this is your impression but there is a lot of mis-information in your post. Getting to level 10 really isn't indicative of the experience you will have but it is of course your impression... I found the game changes quite a bit at 16 and again at 30.
The majority of the cash shop is conveniences - faster mounts, bonus XP, bigger bags..better companions that will level higher. There isn't any gear there unless you count the initial weapon that comes with the founders packs (Obsolete by level 14 or so)
I also recall the WOW launch and depending on what server you were on, the game was unplayable. Neverwinter has a que issue the day of launch that was corrected the next day. There has been some server mainenance but overall the game is pretty stable.
Player created content... The Foundry? Maybe check that out. Personally, I think its a game changer...
Seaspite
Playing ESO on my X-Box