Are we old farts a dying breed?

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  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAMember RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    @OP: not at all "dying". Just diluted.   Originally posted by Robokapp the 'instant gratification' crowd will pass.   No they won't, they've always been there. It's just that some of them are interested in mmo's now.

    /like

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • PrecusorPrecusor PalmaMember UncommonPosts: 3,589
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Precusor
    The instant gratification and the f2p crowd will eventually die out 

    Why?

    f2p crowd: what's the incentive? they get to play games for free and then move on to the next one when they are done. And/or they get to pay to get ahead, get their fun and move on to the next one when they are done.

    Instant gratification crowd: people think that it's all people who are "young".

    Rememember, we were all young(er) as well. When you played your older mmo's you were younger. But you stuck wth things because you had your eye on the prize.

    However, there are players who want things "now" and what's worse they always have to win. Failure is not an option.

    This is not to say everyone who plays f2p games is like this but "people" who want things without risk and quickly have been around for longer than any of us have been alive.

    And then again longer...

    Like P2P market.. people are going to get bored sick playing the same rehashed mediocre f2p mmos .

     

     

     

     

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHMember RarePosts: 5,898

    sometimes i wonder if we're just seniors hating the freshmen or if we have a good reason to...

     

    I'm one of those who wanted an E-sport revolution. before the internet existed, back when multiplayer means split-screen with 2 joysticks. 

     

    joystick...joy...stick...dildo...anyway.

     

    I cant blame players for this mess even if they are the root cause. Developers should know better. they are the ones with the vision and the final word. I will not accuse a player of ruining MMOs. he wants whatever he wants. Like we all do. Its what the devs do to respond to the market that is where my fustrations lie. 

    image

  • hockeyplayrhockeyplayr Middlesex, NJMember UncommonPosts: 604

    I played runescape for 5 years and never hit the old max level. Only made it to 114, yet it was always something to strive for amongst other activitites which is what kept me playing.

    Edit: About death penalties in older mmos.  I feel like Aion did it right in terms of a crossover between the old and new. When it first released you lost experience when you died but it could be bought back with gold.  So you either had to grind the xp or grind for the gold.  Not as harsh if you had the coin, but still provided some sort of a penalty.  Then again I always like rushing back to where my armour was in runescape just to watch it disappear before I could pick it all up

  • David_LopanDavid_Lopan Madison, WIMember UncommonPosts: 813
    IMO generation "Y" can't I have everything on a silver platter aint helping things, even outside of trivial games such as mmo's. I am really hoping for a digital media renaissance age. Reality TV, stupid auto pilot games, etc are ruining our minds and re-enforcing mental lazyness and sterile creativity.
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAMember CommonPosts: 3,828


    Originally posted by Normandy7
    Agreed. The younger generation wants the instant gratification instead of earning it. They think it is called grind when you don't accomplish something within 2 hours. MMOs are about the journey to the destination and if it takes me over a year to reach that then so be it. Atleast I know my money was well spent. Today it is about paying to be super powerful and clear the game in a weekend. Pretty pathetic!
    Not necessarily the "Younguns." I see plenty of posts about "I don't have the time I used to have to play them. I want to accomplish things in the very limited time I have to play."

    As to the OP, everyday we all get closer to death :) Aside from that, the players seeking virtual worlds are in the minority now. I don't see that changing anytime soon. As many divorcees plead, "But I have become accustomed to this lifestyle (game style)." Once you get things very quickly, it takes a special person to be able to back off from that with any sense of satisfaction.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • David_LopanDavid_Lopan Madison, WIMember UncommonPosts: 813
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
      Originally posted by Normandy7
    Agreed. The younger generation wants the instant gratification instead of earning it. They think it is called grind when you don't accomplish something within 2 hours. MMOs are about the journey to the destination and if it takes me over a year to reach that then so be it. Atleast I know my money was well spent. Today it is about paying to be super powerful and clear the game in a weekend. Pretty pathetic!
    Not necessarily the "Younguns." I see plenty of posts about "I don't have the time I used to have to play them. I want to accomplish things in the very limited time I have to play."

     

    As to the OP, everyday we all get closer to death :) Aside from that, the players seeking virtual worlds are in the minority now. I don't see that changing anytime soon. As many divorcees plead, "But I have become accustomed to this lifestyle (game style)." Once you get things very quickly, it takes a special person to be able to back off from that with any sense of satisfaction.

      Well said, although I believe the younger gen is the majority. I didnt have a ton of time back then either and I was perfectly happy taking my time with games.

  • c0existc0exist Round Rock, TXMember UncommonPosts: 196
    Everything here is true whether you agree with the OP or not (I for one do).  However, that does not mean that there cant be a game out there that is not completely westernized to the point that they are today.  One game cant suit everybody but they are all made the same.  You can keep the games that are there now but make one or two games that give us those classic mmorpg elements that this type of genre was founded on.  
  • TjedTjed Baltimore, MDMember Posts: 162
    Originally posted by Gravarg
    I had a thread about this several months back (that's where I got my spotlight poster title weee lol), and I said back then that the instant gratification ruins the MMO experience.   If you like the following you might be a MMO player: - Going into a forest or mine for hours to gather materials for crafting. - Sitting at a workstation for hours turning wood and ore into something you can use. - Sitting somewhere crafting for hours on end, just to get 1/4 of a level in a craft. - Takes a year or more to get to the level cap. - Killing so many "insert monster here" that people make comics and jokes about it...yet still you didn't level up. - Grouping up to take on higher level enemies for bonus experience. - Grouping up just to survive the trip to the next town. - Grouping just for the sake of playing with friends, even if you could do it yourself. - Death penalties that actually hurt.  Loss of experience and/or lots of resources...or even your gear. - Having to go to a wiki or guide site to print out a map of the game world, because you're lost all the time. - Doing nothing but sitting in a bank, pub, house, or some other place just chatting with people.    

    I would go up to $30 a month to have something like this back again.

  • David_LopanDavid_Lopan Madison, WIMember UncommonPosts: 813
    Originally posted by Tjed
    Originally posted by Gravarg
    I had a thread about this several months back (that's where I got my spotlight poster title weee lol), and I said back then that the instant gratification ruins the MMO experience.   If you like the following you might be a MMO player: - Going into a forest or mine for hours to gather materials for crafting. - Sitting at a workstation for hours turning wood and ore into something you can use. - Sitting somewhere crafting for hours on end, just to get 1/4 of a level in a craft. - Takes a year or more to get to the level cap. - Killing so many "insert monster here" that people make comics and jokes about it...yet still you didn't level up. - Grouping up to take on higher level enemies for bonus experience. - Grouping up just to survive the trip to the next town. - Grouping just for the sake of playing with friends, even if you could do it yourself. - Death penalties that actually hurt.  Loss of experience and/or lots of resources...or even your gear. - Having to go to a wiki or guide site to print out a map of the game world, because you're lost all the time. - Doing nothing but sitting in a bank, pub, house, or some other place just chatting with people.    

    I would go up to $30 a month to have something like this back again.

       That would be cruel, but I would not mind the option.

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonMember UncommonPosts: 1,633
     
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Precusor
    The instant gratification and the f2p crowd will eventually die out 

    Why?

    f2p crowd: what's the incentive? they get to play games for free and then move on to the next one when they are done. And/or they get to pay to get ahead, get their fun and move on to the next one when they are done.

    Instant gratification crowd: people think that it's all people who are "young".

    Rememember, we were all young(er) as well. When you played your older mmo's you were younger. But you stuck wth things because you had your eye on the prize.

    However, there are players who want things "now" and what's worse they always have to win. Failure is not an option.

    This is not to say everyone who plays f2p games is like this but "people" who want things without risk and quickly have been around for longer than any of us have been alive.

    And then again longer...

     

    The irony I see in Precursors post is that the most grindy take a long long time to level in are..... drumroll...... f2p games.Max a toon in Rappelz, Atlantica, Cabal Online, and many other f2p MMO's in a few weeks, no way Jose, so I think the "old guys" need to make their mind up as thats the criticism Asian Grinder... compared to US Grinder, EQ or EU grinder EvE (yes EvE you heard me the basic of EvE is grind ISK)

     

    Whenever I read one of these threads common sense just goes flying out the window, old MMO's took a long time because the gameplay was simplistic and easy to create especially in the case of EQ build a low rez area thats green stick a few trees in and BINGO! Elf Lovers Wood now bang in a load of slightly different mobs and get players to group up and get 0.0001% per mob. There's EQ for you OH! and L2 and FFXI and DAOC. Though alternatively you could get players to click on various objects in game world and raise your skill by 0.034% and call it say Ultima Online or how about Star Wars Galaxies. No-one would put up with that gameplay today just look at Darkfall I played that at release, OH! my giddy aunt, that was fecking tedious. The MMO market has followed the trends set by players so really you lot of Vets are to blame for the perceieved state of modern MMO's. There right back atcha!

     

    To answer the OP I'm an old fart gaming wise been around longer than most of you, (started gaming mid 70's) so if you want to stay in the past then yes you are a dying breed or you can go all Zen and just go with da flow. I choose the latter personally I do not want to go back to playing Pong, Centipede or Atic Atac (Spectrum game) or even Zelda: A Link To The Past thank you.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAMember CommonPosts: 3,675
    Originally posted by Normandy7
    Agreed. The younger generation wants the instant gratification instead of earning it. They think it is called grind when you don't accomplish something within 2 hours. MMOs are about the journey to the destination and if it takes me over a year to reach that then so be it. Atleast I know my money was well spent. Today it is about paying to be super powerful and clear the game in a weekend. Pretty pathetic!

    It isn't the younger generation, it's all generations, yours included.  It's just that MMOs started as a very small niche, once WoW came along, a huge number of *YOUR* generation who wanted instant gratification came along and started playing MMOs.  You act like there's something wrong with them when the truth is, you're the one who falls outside of the norm.  What's wrong with you?

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHMember RarePosts: 5,898
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by Normandy7
    Agreed. The younger generation wants the instant gratification instead of earning it. They think it is called grind when you don't accomplish something within 2 hours. MMOs are about the journey to the destination and if it takes me over a year to reach that then so be it. Atleast I know my money was well spent. Today it is about paying to be super powerful and clear the game in a weekend. Pretty pathetic!

    It isn't the younger generation, it's all generations, yours included.  It's just that MMOs started as a very small niche, once WoW came along, a huge number of *YOUR* generation who wanted instant gratification came along and started playing MMOs.  You act like there's something wrong with them when the truth is, you're the one who falls outside of the norm.  What's wrong with you?

    if everyone says 2+2=5...are you insane for stating otherwise ?

     

    Orwell...had a point.

    image

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONMember UncommonPosts: 3,099
    I'm a different old dying breed.
  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVMember RarePosts: 2,742

    The average age of gamers has consistently gone up with the NES generation.

    It's actually people around my age (30) who are the majority and like others have mentioned, as that group of gamers gets older and has more responsibilities they have been drawn to more accessible games. Gone are the days of high school when I could devote 3-5 days to grind out a level, same goes for many others.

    I'm all for a virtual world, and I know it can be done, but it can't be done in the old style. It has to be a world in which someone can log in and do something fun for a couple hours.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,290
    Originally posted by Rusque
    The average age of gamers has consistently gone up with the NES generation. It's actually people around my age (30) who are the majority and like others have mentioned, as that group of gamers gets older and has more responsibilities they have been drawn to more accessible games. Gone are the days of high school when I could devote 3-5 days to grind out a level, same goes for many others. I'm all for a virtual world, and I know it can be done, but it can't be done in the old style. It has to be a world in which someone can log in and do something fun for a couple hours.

     Yes, and just to stop the casual, instant crap people will spew, this doesn't mean that it can't take years to max level (if it has levels) or hours to do do a dungeon.

    It just means that all the long parts have to be broken up in ways that lets people do them in segments without punishing them.

    Get an epic quest like in Istaria or EQ that days days/months to finsih.  Have a 15 hour dungeon that is broken up into 30 minute segments with safe zones, or maybe portals to safezones you've reached.  There are hundreds of ways to do this.

    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHMember RarePosts: 5,898
    Originally posted by Rusque
    . Gone are the days of high school when I could devote 3-5 days to grind out a level, same goes for many others.  

    there's plenty of people in high schools presently. Why arent they doing what you did then ?

     

    did the high school as an institution stop existing or...I don't get it.

     

    what do YOU growing up have to do with the genre? there's generations that followed you...

    image

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways BangladeshMember RarePosts: 2,560
    Originally posted by stromp45
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    We who enjoyed MMO that took time to play, accomplish ingame really matters, crafters had names, dungeons were hard, even get a level were a accomplish in it self, everything we did back then really matters and it really felt good. Now you play MMOs atleast western ones on autopilot, you don't really need a guild, you dont really need friends, everything is layed out for you to play from A to B solo, even the dungeons and raids gets on farm mode within a week it gets released. And the sad part for me is that the younger generation seems to enjoy this, instant gratification crowd no wonder game studios seems to make clones left and right when it sells so good............for a month.........then they return on this board and the sead game board and whine there is nothing to do at endgame and wait for the next big thing. Some of you might know me from GW2 forums and thinks hey you talking about yourself why on earth are you even making a thread like this when you play GW2? Why I play GW2 is not because it's easy or hard I play it because Anet broke the WoW mold simple as that, I can finally play a game were I'm free to do what I want, and yes I would love this game to be less solo friendly and more hardcore. Just wanted to say that for you guys who love to make a post history. So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?  

    I know how you feel i rember in eq if you die the long cr runs and loseing lvs like one time in growth raid wiped and had a 13 hour cr run was afraid we would all lose our stuff til a few druids came to help us. but i hate to say it those days are over with if half these kids had to wait 13 hours to get there equip back most would rage quit. and god forbid you just hit max lv and died and lost your lv that took you a week to get with hours and hours of play.

    so you spent 13 hours in a raid and feel proud of it? i am glad i only play games to have fun and socialize and meet people who love games like me and NOT to make gaming my life. i am also glad i never played Everquest MMO and only played the Everquest co-op ps2 version, glad i didn't have that kind of internet back then to waste 13 hours in raid too. . i might have become "old fart" like you guys.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAMember CommonPosts: 3,675
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by Normandy7
    Agreed. The younger generation wants the instant gratification instead of earning it. They think it is called grind when you don't accomplish something within 2 hours. MMOs are about the journey to the destination and if it takes me over a year to reach that then so be it. Atleast I know my money was well spent. Today it is about paying to be super powerful and clear the game in a weekend. Pretty pathetic!

    It isn't the younger generation, it's all generations, yours included.  It's just that MMOs started as a very small niche, once WoW came along, a huge number of *YOUR* generation who wanted instant gratification came along and started playing MMOs.  You act like there's something wrong with them when the truth is, you're the one who falls outside of the norm.  What's wrong with you?

    if everyone says 2+2=5...are you insane for stating otherwise ?

     

    Orwell...had a point.

    We're not talking about facts, we're talking about opinions and, like it or not, your opinion lost the overall battle.  The industry went in a different direction because that's where the majority of players and majority of the money was.  You can be unhappy about that all you like, but that's the reality.  These are the games that are being made today.  Take it or leave it, but whatever you do, stop whining about it.  It's annoying and it won't get you anywhere.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 7,733
    Thats why I still play a 10 year old game that most would call a Korean grinder but to me it still has the main things that make a real mmo. Those things are a real open seamless world, long meaningful character progression and gameplay where you have to be social and group with other people.These types of mmos are simply not being made right now but I do think they are comming back. I have never liked Western mmo as they are all based around solo quest hub gameplay. I am stil playing Lineage 2 while looking forward to games like ArcheAge, Black Deserts and Bless. Stop supporting these poor excuses for mmos.
    Age of Wushu 2 is a sandbox innovative triple A game built with Unreal Engine 4 that will be launched in 2018. It is based on "real martial art" concepts with naturalistic and societal survival elements. With grand scenes of the world, highly appealing picture atmosphere, rich details such as vegetation , architecture, characters and other real delicate texture performance, it is a combination of high-quality visual effects, bringing an user-level sensory experience. Whether it is physical destruction of the scene, or based on the true performance of IK technology in movement and combat, Age of Wushu 2 brings a whole evolution of gaming experience.
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  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHMember RarePosts: 5,898
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by Normandy7
    Agreed. The younger generation wants the instant gratification instead of earning it. They think it is called grind when you don't accomplish something within 2 hours. MMOs are about the journey to the destination and if it takes me over a year to reach that then so be it. Atleast I know my money was well spent. Today it is about paying to be super powerful and clear the game in a weekend. Pretty pathetic!

    It isn't the younger generation, it's all generations, yours included.  It's just that MMOs started as a very small niche, once WoW came along, a huge number of *YOUR* generation who wanted instant gratification came along and started playing MMOs.  You act like there's something wrong with them when the truth is, you're the one who falls outside of the norm.  What's wrong with you?

    if everyone says 2+2=5...are you insane for stating otherwise ?

     

    Orwell...had a point.

    We're not talking about facts, we're talking about opinions and, like it or not, your opinion lost the overall battle.  The industry went in a different direction because that's where the majority of players and majority of the money was.  You can be unhappy about that all you like, but that's the reality.  These are the games that are being made today.  Take it or leave it, but whatever you do, stop whining about it.  It's annoying and it won't get you anywhere.

    what if the reality is I want to whine ?

     

    or does that argument only work in your favor ? 

    image

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504

    I've always considered early MMORPG veterans to be the "damn kids".  After a while they were kicked "off the lawn" by the rise of gameplay-focused MMORPGs.

    The old men are the ones who played pre-MMORPG games.  The ones who understood when a game was or wasn't deliberately wasting our time with downtime, travel, and tedium.  Only after the genre stopped wasting our time with these empty mechanics did we stick around and start playing MMORPGs in earnest.

    Call me old-fashioned, but games should be about fun.  And new MMORPGs are more fun (even though many MMORPGs seem to fail to even match WOW's gameplay quality, let alone surpass it.)

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • TheJodaTheJoda Nerak, awaiting a good MMOMember UncommonPosts: 572
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    We who enjoyed MMO that took time to play, accomplish ingame really matters, crafters had names, dungeons were hard, even get a level were a accomplish in it self, everything we did back then really matters and it really felt good. Now you play MMOs atleast western ones on autopilot, you don't really need a guild, you dont really need friends, everything is layed out for you to play from A to B solo, even the dungeons and raids gets on farm mode within a week it gets released. And the sad part for me is that the younger generation seems to enjoy this, instant gratification crowd no wonder game studios seems to make clones left and right when it sells so good............for a month.........then they return on this board and the sead game board and whine there is nothing to do at endgame and wait for the next big thing. Some of you might know me from GW2 forums and thinks hey you talking about yourself why on earth are you even making a thread like this when you play GW2? Why I play GW2 is not because it's easy or hard I play it because Anet broke the WoW mold simple as that, I can finally play a game were I'm free to do what I want, and yes I would love this game to be less solo friendly and more hardcore. Just wanted to say that for you guys who love to make a post history. So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?  

    ......yes we are, but there are some game that might give some of us a "home" again.  AA, EQnext.......time will tell!

    ....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  • GreenHellGreenHell ludlow, MAMember UncommonPosts: 1,323
    Originally posted by Gravarg
    I had a thread about this several months back (that's where I got my spotlight poster title weee lol), and I said back then that the instant gratification ruins the MMO experience.   If you like the following you might be a MMO player: - Going into a forest or mine for hours to gather materials for crafting.

    You can do this today in most games.

    - Sitting at a workstation for hours turning wood and ore into something you can use.

    I remember doing this in SWG and it wasn't fun. SOE knew it wasn't fun and thats why they turned a blind eye to people botting. Just a time sink that served no real purpose other than wasting time.

    - Sitting somewhere crafting for hours on end, just to get 1/4 of a level in a craft.

    Another boring time sink.

    - Takes a year or more to get to the level cap.

    I'm old and I'm an MMORPG player and yet I have no desire to play a game that takes a year of grinding to level. It is yet another stupid tink sink mechanic. I would rather have the leveling go quickly and have a "end game" that doesnt end. Much like SWG's.

    - Killing so many "insert monster here" that people make comics and jokes about it...yet still you didn't level up.

    Once again a grind. Why the hell would you want to grind to level? Yes, please let me kill the same mobs over and over and over again.

    - Grouping up to take on higher level enemies for bonus experience.

    This was fun and it is something that I do miss.

    - Grouping up just to survive the trip to the next town.

    Another one thats not horrible.

    - Grouping just for the sake of playing with friends, even if you could do it yourself.

    Can still do that today in modern MMO's

    - Death penalties that actually hurt.  Loss of experience and/or lots of resources...or even your gear.

    Item decay was the best solution. So it started to break even when you didn't die.

    - Having to go to a wiki or guide site to print out a map of the game world, because you're lost all the time.

    Not fun for me. I will take an in game map that shows me where the quests or quest mobs are. You accomplish the same thing just with out alt tabbing.

    - Doing nothing but sitting in a bank, pub, house, or some other place just chatting with people.

    If thats your thing. It's not mine. I want to play a game not sit and talk. I can sit and talk with people for free.

  • SmikisSmikis VilniusMember UncommonPosts: 1,045

    those times when everyone on the server knew you, when enemy respected you enough not to attack even if they were 2v1,

    when you could make a fortune out of crafting because everyone knew you are that guy with that rare recipe

    when you rushed to endgame and upon reachin that played with bunch of people you knew, or if you didnt you made new friends

    when making group was about asking everyone if they want to come, instead of 30s queue time

     

    i miss all of those, even with todays mmorpgs if game was made hard enough half of that could come back, thats why i am looking forwards wildstar, its modern aaa mmorpg but  it focuses on those old things, like being hard

     

    heck i didnt play mmorpg properly ( apart beta there and here ) for years now, there just isnt anything that would be a world

    i am all up for those 30-60 min gaming sessions but those are not in mmorpgs, i really hate when mmo devs say , yes login for 15 mins do quick pvp match, run quick isntance, THE FUCK IF I HAVE 15 mins only, i would never play game in those 15 mins, go online, read news, watch youtube, brownse random stuff, never a game , never a mmorpg

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