Originally posted by ThaneUlfgar No, we're still here, just sharing the community with a more varied crowd, now-a-days.
...reluctantly.
Just can't keep the undesirables out, without raising the Country Club dues.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Not dying, but badly fragmented. With the tidal wave of F2P games, the audience has fragmented across so many titles. Also keep in mind, that with the long development time, that the current cycle seems fixed in place, when its really just one aspect of a phase the industry is going through. Lets hope that as technology advances, and projects get funded through things like Kickstarter, that we see a better selection of games.
No, but it has to be big to last more than a couple of months for the average player. The fact I can enjoy a smaller downsized MMO does not mean I will stay in it, they go stale very quickly.
So what if MMOs don't last for more than a couple of month, if those months are fun? You said it yourself .. enjoy the smaller MMO. Don't stay. No need to. Move to the next one once you are done. You are covered. You can enjoy modern MMOs.
The difference between us is you are still happy riding the Pirates of the Carribean attraction at Disneyland. I want to go and see the films a grander vision based on the same idea. We know MMO's can be made bigger and better, thats what gaming should be reaching for. To have more styles of game and types of gameplay only makes it stronger, give punters their chance to look beyond immediate "fun" and they will get so much more out of MMO's.
What "more" is there aside from fun? More illusion of achievement that requires time-sink? No thanks. I have a life and have no time for that.
Grander visions are just that .. talk talk talk. Make a game fun and i will play. I don't play visions. MMOs can be bigger .. sure .. but better? You are confusing quality (fun) with quantity (big).
Why am I not surprised that Neverwinter is absolute crap? LoL. Because the gaming industry is spewing nothing but junk and marketing hype. It seems impossible that EQN will be anything other than junk. The cash grab is at its peak, and EQN will certainly try to get a piece of that pie before it collapses under its own weight.
If you don't like what they produce, you should quit gaming and do something else.
Personally i found gaming great. Diablo 3, dishonored, bioshock Infinite, deus ex, PoE ... (and many more) are entertaining me, and serve their purpose very well.
We who enjoyed MMO that took time to play, accomplish ingame really matters, crafters had names, dungeons were hard, even get a level were a accomplish in it self, everything we did back then really matters and it really felt good.
Some of you might know me from GW2 forums and thinks hey you talking about yourself why on earth are you even making a thread like this when you play GW2?
This is what i think about your thread.
Why I play GW2 is not because it's easy or hard I play it because Anet broke the WoW mold simple as that, I can finally play a game were I'm free to do what I want, and yes I would love this game to be less solo friendly and more hardcore.
Please explain how GW2 broke the mould and how you are free to do what you want?
Just wanted to say that for you guys who love to make a post history.
So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?
How can you expect to be taken seriously after all your over the top praise for a linear themepark like GW2. GW2 is instant gratification at it's best, everyone wins.
I've played UO, EQ, DAOC, Ryzom, Vanguard, and many more MMO's including GW2 which is the complete opposite of which you claim to miss yet you play, the mind boggles.
The longer development times of MMOs means they are not designed for quick in and out without major hits to quality. Cheap games aren't enjoyable nor worth sticking around for. "you don't have to, just move on". Yeah? That's great if we eventually want a sea of cheap, disposable MMOs. No thanks.
Having fun is great but enjoyment is a better aim than just fun. Are you going to always have fun going anything? No. It's the entire experience that is either enjoyable or not. Playing "fun or run" all the time equates more to console or similar games. You can take your ball and go home a lot easier that way. MMOs are deeper than this and that has to do with their inherent ability to have lots of people around that you can meet. If it's so easy to jet at the first sign of not having fun obviously the person doesn't care about that aspect. Maybe MMOs aren't for them.
We who enjoyed MMO that took time to play, accomplish ingame really matters, crafters had names, dungeons were hard, even get a level were a accomplish in it self, everything we did back then really matters and it really felt good.
Some of you might know me from GW2 forums and thinks hey you talking about yourself why on earth are you even making a thread like this when you play GW2?
This is what i think about your thread.
Why I play GW2 is not because it's easy or hard I play it because Anet broke the WoW mold simple as that, I can finally play a game were I'm free to do what I want, and yes I would love this game to be less solo friendly and more hardcore.
Please explain how GW2 broke the mould and how you are free to do what you want?
Just wanted to say that for you guys who love to make a post history.
So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?
How can you expect to be taken seriously after all your over the top love for a linear themepark like GW2. GW2 is instant gratification at it's best, everyone wins.
GW2 is a linear game?, ok, whatever floats your boat I guess.
Originally posted by Aelious The longer development times of MMOs means they are not designed for quick in and out without major hits to quality. Cheap games aren't enjoyable nor worth sticking around for. "you don't have to, just move on". Yeah? That's great if we eventually want a sea of cheap, disposable MMOs. No thanks.
Having fun is great but enjoyment is a better aim than just fun. Are you going to always have fun going anything? No. It's the entire experience that is either enjoyable or not. Playing "fun or run" all the time equates more to console or similar games. You can take your ball and go home a lot easier that way. MMOs are deeper than this and that has to do with their inherent ability to have lots of people around that you can meet. If it's so easy to jet at the first sign of not having fun obviously the person doesn't care about that aspect. Maybe MMOs aren't for them.
Or maybe not for you? Or maybe some are for you but not others and some are for them but not for you. You think?
There's only two type of people in the world: the ones who think there are only two types of people in the world and the rest of us.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
We who enjoyed MMO that took time to play, accomplish ingame really matters, crafters had names, dungeons were hard, even get a level were a accomplish in it self, everything we did back then really matters and it really felt good.
Some of you might know me from GW2 forums and thinks hey you talking about yourself why on earth are you even making a thread like this when you play GW2?
This is what i think about your thread.
Why I play GW2 is not because it's easy or hard I play it because Anet broke the WoW mold simple as that, I can finally play a game were I'm free to do what I want, and yes I would love this game to be less solo friendly and more hardcore.
Please explain how GW2 broke the mould and how you are free to do what you want?
Just wanted to say that for you guys who love to make a post history.
So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?
How can you expect to be taken seriously after all your over the top love for a linear themepark like GW2. GW2 is instant gratification at it's best, everyone wins.
GW2 is a linear game?, ok,
I'm really interested on how you come to the conclusion that GW2 is not a linear mmo but i guess that's a whole other topic. As for being a dying breed, nope some of us still play non instant gratification mmo's like GW2.
You complain about mmo's that set you on auto pilot yet you play GW2 are you really sure you miss the old days?
You choose to play linear mmo's then i guess that's not the industry's fault.
I'm honestly not sure why point you're trying to make other than gettin defensive for some odd reason. MMOs are designed so you can be in the same space with others, right? If that appeals to you then I would assume you interact with others, right? A lot of people even join guilds to do things with others, right?
If a persons strategy is to run at the first sign of not having fun while playing an MMO it seems unlikely they are utilizing what makes an MMO special. Hence why I said maybe MMOs aren't for them.
We who enjoyed MMO that took time to play, accomplish ingame really matters, crafters had names, dungeons were hard, even get a level were a accomplish in it self, everything we did back then really matters and it really felt good.
Some of you might know me from GW2 forums and thinks hey you talking about yourself why on earth are you even making a thread like this when you play GW2?
This is what i think about your thread.
Why I play GW2 is not because it's easy or hard I play it because Anet broke the WoW mold simple as that, I can finally play a game were I'm free to do what I want, and yes I would love this game to be less solo friendly and more hardcore.
Please explain how GW2 broke the mould and how you are free to do what you want?
Just wanted to say that for you guys who love to make a post history.
So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?
How can you expect to be taken seriously after all your over the top love for a linear themepark like GW2. GW2 is instant gratification at it's best, everyone wins.
GW2 is a linear game?, ok,
I'm really interested on how you come to the conclusion that GW2 is not a linear mmo but i guess that's a whole other topic. As for being a dying breed, nope some of us still play non instant gratification mmo's like GW2.
You complain about mmo's that set you on auto pilot yet you play GW2 are you really sure you miss the old days?
You choose to play linear mmo's then i guess that's not the industry's fault.
I play EVE since may 2003 on and off, does that makes your happy?
I take it you missed the point and that is for another topic.
Sure it's easier now to earn upgrades and gear but it's not instant. It's simply better than spending four to eight weeks and even a year getting one single piece of gear. While that would feel rewarding it was pure nonsense and i hated it. Of course now you can spend that long getting a single piece of gear but that's defined more along the lines of "random" than it is forced. Not only that but you can get more than one piece of gear during that time.
I remember spending a month just camping spawns for bosses, it was horrible. While i did love part of the social aspects of it, it was again also horrible. Guild wars are not my thing. I'm not talkin about PvP, i'm talkin the drama of camping spawns and fighting over them and all that other stupid crap.
Jeremiah 8:21 I weep for the hurt of my people; I stand amazed, silent, dumb with grief. Join me on TwitchFacebook Twitter
We who enjoyed MMO that took time to play, accomplish ingame really matters, crafters had names, dungeons were hard, even get a level were a accomplish in it self, everything we did back then really matters and it really felt good.
Now you play MMOs atleast western ones on autopilot, you don't really need a guild, you dont really need friends, everything is layed out for you to play from A to B solo, even the dungeons and raids gets on farm mode within a week it gets released.
And the sad part for me is that the younger generation seems to enjoy this, instant gratification crowd no wonder game studios seems to make clones left and right when it sells so good............for a month.........then they return on this board and the sead game board and whine there is nothing to do at endgame and wait for the next big thing.
Some of you might know me from GW2 forums and thinks hey you talking about yourself why on earth are you even making a thread like this when you play GW2?
Why I play GW2 is not because it's easy or hard I play it because Anet broke the WoW mold simple as that, I can finally play a game were I'm free to do what I want, and yes I would love this game to be less solo friendly and more hardcore.
Just wanted to say that for you guys who love to make a post history.
So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?
I for one am very tired of these autopilot wow-rehashes, I miss and sometimes catch my self visiting back to my MMO roots with Ultima Online. I miss having to actually go out and explore without limitations. I enjoyed just randomly finding things no mini-map nothing that ruining the "adventure" like feeling when wondering a vast continent and not knowing what lays ahead. For me it feels like MMO's have spent such a long time focused on the "Get done now and simple" which in the end the result is.. It some sort of wow like rehash (not always but most the time) And people complain there isnt enough stuff to keep them busy.
A lot of developers have torn out the social aspects of the MMO's world just to make things quicker.. While I understand someone who works and has a family may not have time to play 24/7 but .. it made it feel even better when you accomplished a goal you had set. Also with that being said, it's an MMO a living digital world, its always going to be there, yeah so you can't say for example play 24/7 like your friend or whatever, but it'll be there when you get in, and yes your friend might be ahead BUT if he's a friend he'll go back and help ya out. I also miss the simple stuff that Ultima Online had presented.. your own house not some instanced crap, as well as the option to be successful without even fighting anything.. just craft setup vendors and craft. You'd have to restock because people would flood your houses and vendors..
What saddens me is MMO's aren't really mmo's anymore they've just because a online mutliplayer game with "fancier lobby" (in-game world) while waiting for a Q to pop or browsing the GTN/Market/AH so most the time you literally do not have to move. So then there goes being creative or imaginative, meeting new people, and what not. Unguided total freedom is fun, for exmaple (probably not the best but most current ) TSW, Open, no help, and when your "done" you can just kinda wonder around explore .. Or even more current example ESO.. we've all see footage and read, and if lucky enough played it at one of the conventions... its amazing its almost like a hybrid catering to multiple audiences besides just the Elder Scrolls fans. Its open for your imagination allows you to explore. I would use Archeage but.. being a korean MMO western has made me none the less weary of how it will turn out.
Yes this post is school teachers/grammer freak/troll's nightmare, but I'm at work on my break and can't spend as much time as I would've.
We who enjoyed MMO that took time to play, accomplish ingame really matters, crafters had names, dungeons were hard, even get a level were a accomplish in it self, everything we did back then really matters and it really felt good.
Some of you might know me from GW2 forums and thinks hey you talking about yourself why on earth are you even making a thread like this when you play GW2?
This is what i think about your thread.
Why I play GW2 is not because it's easy or hard I play it because Anet broke the WoW mold simple as that, I can finally play a game were I'm free to do what I want, and yes I would love this game to be less solo friendly and more hardcore.
Please explain how GW2 broke the mould and how you are free to do what you want?
Just wanted to say that for you guys who love to make a post history.
So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?
How can you expect to be taken seriously after all your over the top love for a linear themepark like GW2. GW2 is instant gratification at it's best, everyone wins.
GW2 is a linear game?, ok,
I'm really interested on how you come to the conclusion that GW2 is not a linear mmo but i guess that's a whole other topic. As for being a dying breed, nope some of us still play non instant gratification mmo's like GW2.
You complain about mmo's that set you on auto pilot yet you play GW2 are you really sure you miss the old days?
You choose to play linear mmo's then i guess that's not the industry's fault.
I play EVE since may 2003 on and off, does that makes your happy?
I take it you missed the point and that is for another topic.
Whether you played eve or not does not matter, fact is you praise GW2 for the very things you are complaining about in today's mmo's.
We who enjoyed MMO that took time to play, accomplish ingame really matters, crafters had names, dungeons were hard, even get a level were a accomplish in it self, everything we did back then really matters and it really felt good.
Some of you might know me from GW2 forums and thinks hey you talking about yourself why on earth are you even making a thread like this when you play GW2?
This is what i think about your thread.
Why I play GW2 is not because it's easy or hard I play it because Anet broke the WoW mold simple as that, I can finally play a game were I'm free to do what I want, and yes I would love this game to be less solo friendly and more hardcore.
Please explain how GW2 broke the mould and how you are free to do what you want?
Just wanted to say that for you guys who love to make a post history.
So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?
How can you expect to be taken seriously after all your over the top love for a linear themepark like GW2. GW2 is instant gratification at it's best, everyone wins.
GW2 is a linear game?, ok,
I'm really interested on how you come to the conclusion that GW2 is not a linear mmo but i guess that's a whole other topic. As for being a dying breed, nope some of us still play non instant gratification mmo's like GW2.
You complain about mmo's that set you on auto pilot yet you play GW2 are you really sure you miss the old days?
You choose to play linear mmo's then i guess that's not the industry's fault.
I play EVE since may 2003 on and off, does that makes your happy?
I take it you missed the point and that is for another topic.
Seems to me you are confused.
Yes and oddly enough I like both Mc Donalds and a nice big stake dinner.
I'm honestly not sure why point you're trying to make other than gettin defensive for some odd reason. MMOs are designed so you can be in the same space with others, right? If that appeals to you then I would assume you interact with others, right? A lot of people even join guilds to do things with others, right?
If a persons strategy is to run at the first sign of not having fun while playing an MMO it seems unlikely they are utilizing what makes an MMO special. Hence why I said maybe MMOs aren't for them.
So now we're talking about grouping? I enjoy grouping and chatting with people worth grouping and chatting with. I found those people in Asheron's Call in 1999 and I still find them today wherever I play.
You make an unusual distinction between "fun" and "enjoyment." To me they're synonyms. But you seem to consider fun a short term thing an enjoyment something more prolonged that includes periods of not having fun...sort of like life.
Don't lose sight of why we play games. They are not life replacers. They are entertainment.
People who have a low tolerance for pain in entertainment are not a sub species of less evolved humans nor are they a lesser type of unsophisticated MMO fan. They're perhaps just those who haven't forgotten that we play for fun.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Sure it's easier now to earn upgrades and gear but it's not instant. It's simply better than spending four to eight weeks and even a year getting one single piece of gear. While that would feel rewarding it was pure nonsense and i hated it. Of course now you can spend that long getting a single piece of gear but that's defined more along the lines of "random" than it is forced. Not only that but you can get more than one piece of gear during that time.
I remember spending a month just camping spawns for bosses, it was horrible. While i did love part of the social aspects of it, it was again also horrible. Guild wars are not my thing. I'm not talkin about PvP, i'm talkin the drama of camping spawns and fighting over them and all that other stupid crap.
Yeah. Camping was horrible.
Put it this way .. if "instant" means that progress is measured in weeks, instead of months. I am all for it.
Originally posted by Iselin PS... The "unsafe at any speed" POS Corvair a classic? Just goes to show that when junk gets old enough it starts to look good to some. I think I'll pass.
"Unsafe At Any Speed" was a book written by Ralph Nader in 1965. It had 8 chapters. One was about the Corvair. It had a bad suspension design. This covered models from 1960-1963. In 1964, changes were made that remedied this problem. The 1960-1963 Corvairs were "fixable" and often were, thanks to Nader's book.
In 1972, a Congressional Committee cleared the Corvair of Nader's charges. Of course, the Corvair was 3 years dead by then. Chevrolet was by no means a "Saint" in all of this. They could have made the Corvair safer, but due to a bottom line business decision, did not. Of course, Corvair owners could prevent any disasters by reading their owner's manual, but they could not be bothered, ie: keeping tires inflated at the proper specs.
Keep my "POS" (Your term, not mine) Corvair running instead of buying a new, plastic, "looks like every other car made in it's class" Honda Accord? In a heartbeat.
Again, the stupidity/nostalgia inference is played, just like the inferences about "Old Games AND those who like them, are stupid/nostalgic." After all, anyone who liked those games could not have actually "liked" them. No, it must nostalgia. No, you never say that, but imply it a lot. You think the Corvair is a "POS", which infers that anyone wanting to keep theirs running is "stupid" or "nostalgic" for not upgrading, just like you infer players who liked the old MMORPGs are "stupid" for not upgrading to today's throw away MMOs.
When I played EQ and CoH, I could not wait to log on. These 2 games were on my mind at work or other activities. Today's MMOs? It is more like "I am bored. What should I do?" I am truly happy you "and your cronies" are happy with the games put out today. I envy you your glut of choices. I wish I was in your shoes.
I understand that some "old fart posters" can get a little carried away with their desire, but a little empathy (recall when you hated the current MMOs out way back then) could go a long way. I can not speak for the others, but I definitely feel put on the defensive with every thread like this one. Some "Old Fart" posters are no better, I know. The big difference is this: *You* have games you enjoy playing. "Old Farts" do not. What is the point of rubbing it in?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I'm honestly not sure why point you're trying to make other than gettin defensive for some odd reason. MMOs are designed so you can be in the same space with others, right? If that appeals to you then I would assume you interact with others, right? A lot of people even join guilds to do things with others, right?
If a persons strategy is to run at the first sign of not having fun while playing an MMO it seems unlikely they are utilizing what makes an MMO special. Hence why I said maybe MMOs aren't for them.
So now we're talking about grouping? I enjoy grouping and chatting with people worth grouping and chatting with. I found those people in Asheron's Call in 1999 and I still find them today wherever I play.
You make an unusual distinction between "fun" and "enjoyment." To me they're synonyms. But you seem to consider fun a short term thing an enjoyment something more prolonged that includes periods of not having fun...sort of like life.
Don't lose sight of why we play games. They are not life replacers. They are entertainment.
People who have a low tolerance for pain in entertainment are not a sub species of less evolved humans nor are they a lesser type of unsophisticated MMO fan. They're perhaps just those who haven't forgotten that we play for fun.
@Iselin - ?What is intertaining MMO design in your view then and why? Why do you play these games if not for the challenge. Do you find it fun to Cruise trough content on autopilot leaving your mental activity in a zen inspired garden far far away? Is it only relaxation to you? I am just curious.
I understand that some "old fart posters" can get a little carried away with their desire, but a little empathy (recall when you hated the current MMOs out way back then) could go a long way. I can not speak for the others, but I definitely feel put on the defensive with every thread like this one. Some "Old Fart" posters are no better, I know. The big difference is this: *You* have games you enjoy playing. "Old Farts" do not. What is the point of rubbing it in?
Originally posted by Iselin PS... The "unsafe at any speed" POS Corvair a classic? Just goes to show that when junk gets old enough it starts to look good to some. I think I'll pass.
"Unsafe At Any Speed" was a book written by Ralph Nader in 1965. It had 8 chapters. One was about the Corvair. It had a bad suspension design. This covered models from 1960-1963. In 1964, changes were made that remedied this problem. The 1960-1963 Corvairs were "fixable" and often were, thanks to Nader's book.
In 1972, a Congressional Committee cleared the Corvair of Nader's charges. Of course, the Corvair was 3 years dead by then. Chevrolet was by no means a "Saint" in all of this. They could have made the Corvair safer, but due to a bottom line business decision, did not. Of course, Corvair owners could prevent any disasters by reading their owner's manual, but they could not be bothered, ie: keeping tires inflated at the proper specs.
Keep my "POS" (Your term, not mine) Corvair running instead of buying a new, plastic, "looks like every other car made in it's class" Honda Accord? In a heartbeat.
Again, the stupidity/nostalgia inference is played, just like the inferences about "Old Games AND those who like them, are stupid/nostalgic." After all, anyone who liked those games could not have actually "liked" them. No, it must nostalgia. No, you never say that, but imply it a lot. You think the Corvair is a "POS", which infers that anyone wanting to keep theirs running is "stupid" or "nostalgic" for not upgrading, just like you infer players who liked the old MMORPGs are "stupid" for not upgrading to today's throw away MMOs.
When I played EQ and CoH, I could not wait to log on. These 2 games were on my mind at work or other activities. Today's MMOs? It is more like "I am bored. What should I do?" I am truly happy you "and your cronies" are happy with the games put out today. I envy you your glut of choices. I wish I was in your shoes.
I understand that some "old fart posters" can get a little carried away with their desire, but a little empathy (recall when you hated the current MMOs out way back then) could go a long way. I can not speak for the others, but I definitely feel put on the defensive with every thread like this one. Some "Old Fart" posters are no better, I know. The big difference is this: *You* have games you enjoy playing. "Old Farts" do not. What is the point of rubbing it in?
1. I owned a 62 Chevy Corvair in 1967. It was my 2nd car. My first was a '56 Chevy Belair. The Belair is a classic, The Corvair was and is a piece of shit. I'm not theory crafting here. I know the car. I've owned Hondas for more than 35 years (currently a 2010 Ridgeline) Chevrolet still hasn't learned that attention to detail is what makes Hondas good buys
2. I played Asheron's Call from 1999 to 2001 and DAoC from 2001-2004. I also was consumed and couldn't wait to log in. But by far the main reason was that in those days that was the way for me to communicate instantly with the many friends I made in those games from all over the world. Today I have FB, IM, text message, Face Time, etc., to chat with my friends and family spread over several continents. I don't need games for that reason any more. Times change.
3. AC "featured" corpse runs to retrieve the items left behind. This often meant your now under-geared character, would die again trying to recover the first corpse. This could easily go on for 2 hours or more. There was no storage. You transferred stuff to "mule" alts through a friend holding it for you or by finding a safe spot to drop it on the ground, logging out. logging the mule, picking up the stuff, logging that alt out and re-logging your main...more time wasting. In AC (for several months after launch) there wasn't even a way to trade with another player, much less an auction house. You traded on the honor system. Someone went first and whoever did could get scammed. All of that was vastly inferior to what exists today. Stands to reason since no one had thought-up the improvements yet in those early days.
4. There are by far many more condescending posts by MMO hipsters here looking down on anyone who is not a sandbox and/or old MMO lover than the opposite. Don't believe me? Start 2 threads: one praising sandboxes and UO, EQ and AC and a 2nd one knocking them. Let's see where you get the most flames.
5. I am older than most of you. I've been computer gaming since 1981. Before that I played tabletop D&D and war games. I even subscribed to Strategy and Tactics magazine in the early 70s. But I am also not conservative, I enjoy and welcome progress. I don't think there is anything wrong with my 20-something son who is doing a masters in Neural Networks nor his friends and there is nothing wrong with my teenage daughter who enjoyed Twilight when she was younger and is a big fan of the new Star Trek reboot. If anything the younger generation is more savvy than we were at their age and infinitely more plugged-in to social networks. There is nothing shallow nor McEverything about them.
You can spin it any way you want, but I know for a fact that in these forum it's the conservative aging MMO hipsters who don't tolerate disagreement with their "superior" point of view.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
@Iselin - ?What is intertaining MMO design in your view then and why? Why do you play these games if not for the challenge. Do you find it fun to Cruise trough content on autopilot leaving your mental activity in a zen inspired garden far far away? Is it only relaxation to you? I am just curious.
I enjoy any MMO of any sort that has good gameplay and an appropriate balance of risk/luck rewards. I also detest any MMO where it's obvious I'm grinding just so that the company can keep getting my money.
How about you. Which MMOs do you play. Do you enjoy the digital equivalent of being chained and flogged?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I understand that some "old fart posters" can get a little carried away with their desire, but a little empathy (recall when you hated the current MMOs out way back then) could go a long way. I can not speak for the others, but I definitely feel put on the defensive with every thread like this one. Some "Old Fart" posters are no better, I know. The big difference is this: *You* have games you enjoy playing. "Old Farts" do not. What is the point of rubbing it in?
What is the point of whining about it endlessly?
The Red text is the point I always come back to. I have, read, and been keeping up with the entire thread. AlBQuirky, I have enjoyed you posts and I agree with everything you've said. Nariusseldon, you really shouldn't answer a question with a question, it's rude. I'll try to answer from my point of view anyway.
It's not whining as much as it is having a conversation. We are in a position where we would really like an MMORPG that plays a certain way. This is a website called, MMORPG.COM, so these forums seem like a good place to voice our opinions and, yes, also reminisce about how much fun we used to have. If it comes off as whining, then the best thing to do would be to avoid the topic. There are plenty of topics that I completely avoid because I know from the title that I disagree with the subject. There's one on the front page right now about getting rid of the virtual world in some games. I'm just not touching that because it's the opposite of my personal tastes. By all means, chime in and help out with your insights, but I would never purposely sit and listen to something that I consider "whining" when I can just up and leave.
I hope that clears it up a little.
Now, pretty please, with sugar on top, answer the question. Why do you feel the need to pour salt in the wound?
Comments
...reluctantly.
Just can't keep the undesirables out, without raising the Country Club dues.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
If you don't like what they produce, you should quit gaming and do something else.
Personally i found gaming great. Diablo 3, dishonored, bioshock Infinite, deus ex, PoE ... (and many more) are entertaining me, and serve their purpose very well.
How can you expect to be taken seriously after all your over the top praise for a linear themepark like GW2. GW2 is instant gratification at it's best, everyone wins.
I've played UO, EQ, DAOC, Ryzom, Vanguard, and many more MMO's including GW2 which is the complete opposite of which you claim to miss yet you play, the mind boggles.
Having fun is great but enjoyment is a better aim than just fun. Are you going to always have fun going anything? No. It's the entire experience that is either enjoyable or not. Playing "fun or run" all the time equates more to console or similar games. You can take your ball and go home a lot easier that way. MMOs are deeper than this and that has to do with their inherent ability to have lots of people around that you can meet. If it's so easy to jet at the first sign of not having fun obviously the person doesn't care about that aspect. Maybe MMOs aren't for them.
GW2 is a linear game?, ok, whatever floats your boat I guess.
About explaining why GW2 broke the WOW mold discussion is that way -------------------->http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/384423/8-months-in-Did-GW2-break-from-the-WoW-formula.html
Feel free to make a comment there instead.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Or maybe not for you? Or maybe some are for you but not others and some are for them but not for you. You think?
There's only two type of people in the world: the ones who think there are only two types of people in the world and the rest of us.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I'm really interested on how you come to the conclusion that GW2 is not a linear mmo but i guess that's a whole other topic. As for being a dying breed, nope some of us still play non instant gratification mmo's like GW2.
You complain about mmo's that set you on auto pilot yet you play GW2 are you really sure you miss the old days?
You choose to play linear mmo's then i guess that's not the industry's fault.
I'm honestly not sure why point you're trying to make other than gettin defensive for some odd reason. MMOs are designed so you can be in the same space with others, right? If that appeals to you then I would assume you interact with others, right? A lot of people even join guilds to do things with others, right?
If a persons strategy is to run at the first sign of not having fun while playing an MMO it seems unlikely they are utilizing what makes an MMO special. Hence why I said maybe MMOs aren't for them.
I play EVE since may 2003 on and off, does that makes your happy?
I take it you missed the point and that is for another topic.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Instant gratification?
Sure it's easier now to earn upgrades and gear but it's not instant. It's simply better than spending four to eight weeks and even a year getting one single piece of gear. While that would feel rewarding it was pure nonsense and i hated it. Of course now you can spend that long getting a single piece of gear but that's defined more along the lines of "random" than it is forced. Not only that but you can get more than one piece of gear during that time.
I remember spending a month just camping spawns for bosses, it was horrible. While i did love part of the social aspects of it, it was again also horrible. Guild wars are not my thing. I'm not talkin about PvP, i'm talkin the drama of camping spawns and fighting over them and all that other stupid crap.
Jeremiah 8:21 I weep for the hurt of my people; I stand amazed, silent, dumb with grief.
Join me on Twitch Facebook Twitter
I for one am very tired of these autopilot wow-rehashes, I miss and sometimes catch my self visiting back to my MMO roots with Ultima Online. I miss having to actually go out and explore without limitations. I enjoyed just randomly finding things no mini-map nothing that ruining the "adventure" like feeling when wondering a vast continent and not knowing what lays ahead. For me it feels like MMO's have spent such a long time focused on the "Get done now and simple" which in the end the result is.. It some sort of wow like rehash (not always but most the time) And people complain there isnt enough stuff to keep them busy.
A lot of developers have torn out the social aspects of the MMO's world just to make things quicker.. While I understand someone who works and has a family may not have time to play 24/7 but .. it made it feel even better when you accomplished a goal you had set. Also with that being said, it's an MMO a living digital world, its always going to be there, yeah so you can't say for example play 24/7 like your friend or whatever, but it'll be there when you get in, and yes your friend might be ahead BUT if he's a friend he'll go back and help ya out. I also miss the simple stuff that Ultima Online had presented.. your own house not some instanced crap, as well as the option to be successful without even fighting anything.. just craft setup vendors and craft. You'd have to restock because people would flood your houses and vendors..
What saddens me is MMO's aren't really mmo's anymore they've just because a online mutliplayer game with "fancier lobby" (in-game world) while waiting for a Q to pop or browsing the GTN/Market/AH so most the time you literally do not have to move. So then there goes being creative or imaginative, meeting new people, and what not. Unguided total freedom is fun, for exmaple (probably not the best but most current ) TSW, Open, no help, and when your "done" you can just kinda wonder around explore .. Or even more current example ESO.. we've all see footage and read, and if lucky enough played it at one of the conventions... its amazing its almost like a hybrid catering to multiple audiences besides just the Elder Scrolls fans. Its open for your imagination allows you to explore. I would use Archeage but.. being a korean MMO western has made me none the less weary of how it will turn out.
Yes this post is school teachers/grammer freak/troll's nightmare, but I'm at work on my break and can't spend as much time as I would've.
Whether you played eve or not does not matter, fact is you praise GW2 for the very things you are complaining about in today's mmo's.
Seems to me you are confused.
Yes and oddly enough I like both Mc Donalds and a nice big stake dinner.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
So now we're talking about grouping? I enjoy grouping and chatting with people worth grouping and chatting with. I found those people in Asheron's Call in 1999 and I still find them today wherever I play.
You make an unusual distinction between "fun" and "enjoyment." To me they're synonyms. But you seem to consider fun a short term thing an enjoyment something more prolonged that includes periods of not having fun...sort of like life.
Don't lose sight of why we play games. They are not life replacers. They are entertainment.
People who have a low tolerance for pain in entertainment are not a sub species of less evolved humans nor are they a lesser type of unsophisticated MMO fan. They're perhaps just those who haven't forgotten that we play for fun.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Yeah. Camping was horrible.
Put it this way .. if "instant" means that progress is measured in weeks, instead of months. I am all for it.
In 1972, a Congressional Committee cleared the Corvair of Nader's charges. Of course, the Corvair was 3 years dead by then. Chevrolet was by no means a "Saint" in all of this. They could have made the Corvair safer, but due to a bottom line business decision, did not. Of course, Corvair owners could prevent any disasters by reading their owner's manual, but they could not be bothered, ie: keeping tires inflated at the proper specs.
Keep my "POS" (Your term, not mine) Corvair running instead of buying a new, plastic, "looks like every other car made in it's class" Honda Accord? In a heartbeat.
Again, the stupidity/nostalgia inference is played, just like the inferences about "Old Games AND those who like them, are stupid/nostalgic." After all, anyone who liked those games could not have actually "liked" them. No, it must nostalgia. No, you never say that, but imply it a lot. You think the Corvair is a "POS", which infers that anyone wanting to keep theirs running is "stupid" or "nostalgic" for not upgrading, just like you infer players who liked the old MMORPGs are "stupid" for not upgrading to today's throw away MMOs.
When I played EQ and CoH, I could not wait to log on. These 2 games were on my mind at work or other activities. Today's MMOs? It is more like "I am bored. What should I do?" I am truly happy you "and your cronies" are happy with the games put out today. I envy you your glut of choices. I wish I was in your shoes.
I understand that some "old fart posters" can get a little carried away with their desire, but a little empathy (recall when you hated the current MMOs out way back then) could go a long way. I can not speak for the others, but I definitely feel put on the defensive with every thread like this one. Some "Old Fart" posters are no better, I know. The big difference is this: *You* have games you enjoy playing. "Old Farts" do not. What is the point of rubbing it in?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
All die, so die well.
What is the point of whining about it endlessly?
1. I owned a 62 Chevy Corvair in 1967. It was my 2nd car. My first was a '56 Chevy Belair. The Belair is a classic, The Corvair was and is a piece of shit. I'm not theory crafting here. I know the car. I've owned Hondas for more than 35 years (currently a 2010 Ridgeline) Chevrolet still hasn't learned that attention to detail is what makes Hondas good buys
2. I played Asheron's Call from 1999 to 2001 and DAoC from 2001-2004. I also was consumed and couldn't wait to log in. But by far the main reason was that in those days that was the way for me to communicate instantly with the many friends I made in those games from all over the world. Today I have FB, IM, text message, Face Time, etc., to chat with my friends and family spread over several continents. I don't need games for that reason any more. Times change.
3. AC "featured" corpse runs to retrieve the items left behind. This often meant your now under-geared character, would die again trying to recover the first corpse. This could easily go on for 2 hours or more. There was no storage. You transferred stuff to "mule" alts through a friend holding it for you or by finding a safe spot to drop it on the ground, logging out. logging the mule, picking up the stuff, logging that alt out and re-logging your main...more time wasting. In AC (for several months after launch) there wasn't even a way to trade with another player, much less an auction house. You traded on the honor system. Someone went first and whoever did could get scammed. All of that was vastly inferior to what exists today. Stands to reason since no one had thought-up the improvements yet in those early days.
4. There are by far many more condescending posts by MMO hipsters here looking down on anyone who is not a sandbox and/or old MMO lover than the opposite. Don't believe me? Start 2 threads: one praising sandboxes and UO, EQ and AC and a 2nd one knocking them. Let's see where you get the most flames.
5. I am older than most of you. I've been computer gaming since 1981. Before that I played tabletop D&D and war games. I even subscribed to Strategy and Tactics magazine in the early 70s. But I am also not conservative, I enjoy and welcome progress. I don't think there is anything wrong with my 20-something son who is doing a masters in Neural Networks nor his friends and there is nothing wrong with my teenage daughter who enjoyed Twilight when she was younger and is a big fan of the new Star Trek reboot. If anything the younger generation is more savvy than we were at their age and infinitely more plugged-in to social networks. There is nothing shallow nor McEverything about them.
You can spin it any way you want, but I know for a fact that in these forum it's the conservative aging MMO hipsters who don't tolerate disagreement with their "superior" point of view.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I enjoy any MMO of any sort that has good gameplay and an appropriate balance of risk/luck rewards. I also detest any MMO where it's obvious I'm grinding just so that the company can keep getting my money.
How about you. Which MMOs do you play. Do you enjoy the digital equivalent of being chained and flogged?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The Red text is the point I always come back to. I have, read, and been keeping up with the entire thread. AlBQuirky, I have enjoyed you posts and I agree with everything you've said. Nariusseldon, you really shouldn't answer a question with a question, it's rude. I'll try to answer from my point of view anyway.
It's not whining as much as it is having a conversation. We are in a position where we would really like an MMORPG that plays a certain way. This is a website called, MMORPG.COM, so these forums seem like a good place to voice our opinions and, yes, also reminisce about how much fun we used to have. If it comes off as whining, then the best thing to do would be to avoid the topic. There are plenty of topics that I completely avoid because I know from the title that I disagree with the subject. There's one on the front page right now about getting rid of the virtual world in some games. I'm just not touching that because it's the opposite of my personal tastes. By all means, chime in and help out with your insights, but I would never purposely sit and listen to something that I consider "whining" when I can just up and leave.
I hope that clears it up a little.
Now, pretty please, with sugar on top, answer the question. Why do you feel the need to pour salt in the wound?