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F2P is making more than TWICE as much money as P2P in the US

nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

http://2p.com/5170acba61fc1cbdad62bf61_1/March-2013-US-Digital-Games-Market-Overview.htm

 

"Speaking of the MMO, the free-to-play MMO is definitely a trendy and have a growth of 3 million players in March, which also brings a slight improvement on monetization to $195 million. To the contrary, the pay-to-play MMO segment is going down in March and loses around 289,000 subscribers. Nonetheless, the overall revenues remained relatively stable at $86 million"

 

 

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Comments

  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member
    considering how hard it is becomeing to actually find P2P games now i am truly not suprised by this.

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    [mod edit]

    But can you guess how much more money F2P is making compared to P2P without seeing the post?

  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    [mod edit]

    But can you guess how much more money F2P is making compared to P2P without seeing the post?

    good question but heres a better one, if we take the percentage of F2P to P2P and then we take the percentage of F2P games on the market compared to the percentage of P2P games on the market adn tehn compare them i wonder what the number will be.

    just a rough guess would be

    3 to 1 on profits (F2P to P2P)

    and about

    close to 500 compared to less then 10 (F2P to P2P)

    now these numbers are not accurate but ill bet they are rougly close

    now im no mathy person but there dose seem to be a pattern here.

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Squeak69
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    [mod edit]

    But can you guess how much more money F2P is making compared to P2P without seeing the post?

    good question but heres a better one, if we take the percentage of F2P to P2P and then we take the percentage of F2P games on the market compared to the percentage of P2P games on the market adn tehn compare them i wonder what the number will be.

    just a rough guess would be

    3 to 1 on profits (F2P to P2P)

    and about

    close to 500 compared to less then 10 (F2P to P2P)

    now these numbers are not accurate but ill bet they are rougly close

    now im no mathy person but there dose seem to be a pattern here.

    While i do not have detailed data, that seems to be reasonable. It is no surprise that the F2P market is much more competitive than the P2P one, and consumers have more choices.

     

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member

    Neat thing about Free to Play games numbers - since people aren't subscribed, as soon as they register for the game they are counted as F2P players forever.

     

    Also, the numbers seem really far off from what I'd expect.  For example, if $86 million is the total revenue for subscriptions, that means at $15 monthly fees there are only 5 million subscribed players in the USA paying subs for MMOs.  Doesn't that seem extremely low?

     

    I'm betting games that call themselves free to play but offer subscription levels, count subscribers as F2P players for the purpose of this obviously misleading and off the mark report.

     

    edit: clarity

    El Psy Congroo

  • TjedTjed Baltimore, MDPosts: 162Member
    Dude, do you work for EA or PW or something?  Serious question, as I have never seen a bigger white knight for micro transaction, cash shops.  Never on any website for any game or any genre of game.... ever.  Do you?
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tjed
    Dude, do you work for EA or PW or something?  Serious question, as I have never seen a bigger white knight for micro transaction, cash shops.  Never on any website for any game or any genre of game.... ever.  Do you?

    He is the counter to the p2p are the devil who ate my baby threads.  And yet we don't ever hear those people being accused of working for a p2p company.

    odd.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by kadepsyson

    Also, the numbers seem really far off from what I'd expect.  For example, if $86 million is the total revenue for subscriptions, that means at $15 monthly fees there are only 5 million subscribed players in the USA paying subs for MMOs.  Doesn't that seem extremely low?

    That is why you need research because what you expect is not accurate.

    5M is extremely low? Not really. Few wants to stick to a sub. Most MMO players play F2P.

    In fact, if it is not for WOW (still 2M in the US?), the number would be MUCH lower.

  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member
    Originally posted by kadepsyson

    Neat thing about Free to Play games numbers - since people aren't subscribed, as soon as they register for the game they are counted as F2P players forever.

     

    Also, the numbers seem really far off from what I'd expect.  For example, if $86 million is the total revenue for subscriptions, that means at $15 monthly fees there are only 5 million subscribed players in the USA paying subs for MMOs.  Doesn't that seem extremely low?

     

    I'm betting games that call themselves free to play but offer subscription levels, count subscribers as F2P players for the purpose of this obviously misleading and off the mark report.

     

    edit: clarity

    acctully the numbers are probaly more accurate then you think, keep in mind these number are profit basicly net, not gross.

    this is where another aspect of F2P games comes into play since most of them tend to have lower maintence cost then P2P games do, for a few diffrent reason.

    so in reality i do think these number are pretty accurate .

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member
    Originally posted by Squeak69
    Originally posted by kadepsyson

    Neat thing about Free to Play games numbers - since people aren't subscribed, as soon as they register for the game they are counted as F2P players forever.

     

    Also, the numbers seem really far off from what I'd expect.  For example, if $86 million is the total revenue for subscriptions, that means at $15 monthly fees there are only 5 million subscribed players in the USA paying subs for MMOs.  Doesn't that seem extremely low?

     

    I'm betting games that call themselves free to play but offer subscription levels, count subscribers as F2P players for the purpose of this obviously misleading and off the mark report.

     

    edit: clarity

    acctully the numbers are probaly more accurate then you think, keep in mind these number are profit basicly net, not gross.

    this is where another aspect of F2P games comes into play since most of them tend to have lower maintence cost then P2P games do, for a few diffrent reason.

    so in reality i do think these number are pretty accurate .

    Well if the numbers are accurate, the article itself is still misleading.  It mentions lower subscriber players, and says how F2P players grew.

     

    F2P player count cannot decrease with how it is counted.  Subscriptions can because cancelling means the game isn't playable.  In other words, this way of counting players is ridiculous and misleading, and the article that uses it is exactly what people who white knight for F2P froth at the mouth for when the read it.  No offense to OP if you actually have rabies.

    El Psy Congroo

  • TjedTjed Baltimore, MDPosts: 162Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Tjed
    Dude, do you work for EA or PW or something?  Serious question, as I have never seen a bigger white knight for micro transaction, cash shops.  Never on any website for any game or any genre of game.... ever.  Do you?

    He is the counter to the p2p are the devil who ate my baby threads.  And yet we don't ever hear those people being accused of working for a p2p company.

    odd.

    I'm not acusing anyone of anything.  I'm actually playing Neverwinter right now, and I paid them 60 dollars to start early and get some shiny stuff.  I'm going to give them more money when I feel like it to get more in game stuff.  It's a fun game and, if you must know, my son is free from devils (although sometimes I wonder) and has not been eaten. 

    It's just an odd stance to take.  Most people don't like micro transactions, then there are players like me who deal with them in order to enjoy a good game.  I have never seen someone champion them.... it's odd, however, working in the field would be a perfect explaination. 

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon

    Do most people not like micro-transactions?

     I don't think thats true actually.  I think most people couldn't care less about them.

    Only on this forum or like minded forums to most people not like them.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • TjedTjed Baltimore, MDPosts: 162Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    Do most people not like micro-transactions?

     I don't think thats true actually.  I think most people couldn't care less about them.

    Only on this forum or like minded forums to most people not like them.

    You might be right there.  I have zero data to back that up and it is, indeed, just a consensus that I got from this forum.  I don't mind them, but I'll also pay 15 a month if there's an option to do that and avoid them. 

    Still, I have never seen anyone else that really, really likes them as much as the OP.  Is it just a disestablishmentarian type of thing to combat the general attitude around this website?

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    Do most people not like micro-transactions?

     I don't think thats true actually.  I think most people couldn't care less about them.

    Only on this forum or like minded forums to most people not like them.

    Most obviously do not care enough to avoid games with microtransactions.

    F2P games have more players.

    F2P games make more money.

    It seems pretty clear to me that players don't mind.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Tjed

    Still, I have never seen anyone else that really, really likes them as much as the OP.  Is it just a disestablishmentarian type of thing to combat the general attitude around this website?

    Wait .. where did i say i "really likes them". I just post some statistics.

    BTW, just to be complete open here, i play F2P games but never buy anything from a cashshop. I prefer to have my fun free. So you can say i really like F2P, but certainly not microtransaction since i don't participate. I don't buy stuff from cash shop, so far.

    The ONLY exception is D3, which i made money. So in that case, i do like that form of RMT where i can make money (oh i did spend some back for gear, but over all, i made a small amount ~$80 ... and it is nice to have fun and also get some money at the same time).

     

  • TjedTjed Baltimore, MDPosts: 162Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    Do most people not like micro-transactions?

     I don't think thats true actually.  I think most people couldn't care less about them.

    Only on this forum or like minded forums to most people not like them.

    Most obviously do not care enough to avoid games with microtransactions.

    F2P games have more players.

    F2P games make more money.

    It seems pretty clear to me that players don't mind.

    I'm not trying to use myself as a representation of "most" but I do not really care for them.  I play in spite of them because I really like playing MMORPGs with my friends.  I've been playing with some of these guys for well over 10 years and I'll put up with a lot to continue doing so.  I would be that there are more people than you think that play these games because they're gamers, and love to play online games.  If we have to put up with microtransactions hidden under the guise of F2P, then so be it. 

  • JimmyYOJimmyYO Columbus, OHPosts: 520Member
    Not really a fair comparision considering almost every game is F2P now and mainly because the games are too horrible to survive P2P.
  • TjedTjed Baltimore, MDPosts: 162Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Tjed

    Still, I have never seen anyone else that really, really likes them as much as the OP.  Is it just a disestablishmentarian type of thing to combat the general attitude around this website?

    Wait .. where did i say i "really likes them". I just post some statistics.

    BTW, just to be complete open here, i play F2P games but never buy anything from a cashshop. I prefer to have my fun free. So you can say i really like F2P, but certainly not microtransaction since i don't participate. I don't buy stuff from cash shop, so far.

    The ONLY exception is D3, which i made money. So in that case, i do like that form of RMT where i can make money (oh i did spend some back for gear, but over all, i made a small amount ~$80 ... and it is nice to have fun and also get some money at the same time).

     

    Fair enough, and I actually do enjoy reading your posts as a counter argument to some people that get overly emotional about things.  You stay very grounded in facts which I can respect.  I have just never seen anyone so passionate about free gaming. 

  • DauzqulDauzqul Detroit, MIPosts: 1,402Member Uncommon

    F2P is an excuse.

    "This game sucks... it's just like all the others... but hey! It's FTP".

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    So the handful of purely P2P games pulled in 30% of the revenue share after production costs? Go P2P!

    Of course I'm more interested in the playerbase growth which is always good news. I do find these types of figures entertaining as not many companies make thier profits public, let alone itemized. Still good to see growth of players.
  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,916Member Uncommon

    Times change, markets change, tech changes, games change, payment models adapt.

     

    I think Scarlet Blade is a great example.  Have you ever seen anyone say it should be monetized as box plus subscription?  I doubt it.  Now ask yourself why is that.

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • aWRAYaWRAY Elk Grove, CAPosts: 84Member
    Originally posted by Tjed
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Tjed

    Still, I have never seen anyone else that really, really likes them as much as the OP.  Is it just a disestablishmentarian type of thing to combat the general attitude around this website?

    Wait .. where did i say i "really likes them". I just post some statistics.

    BTW, just to be complete open here, i play F2P games but never buy anything from a cashshop. I prefer to have my fun free. So you can say i really like F2P, but certainly not microtransaction since i don't participate. I don't buy stuff from cash shop, so far.

    The ONLY exception is D3, which i made money. So in that case, i do like that form of RMT where i can make money (oh i did spend some back for gear, but over all, i made a small amount ~$80 ... and it is nice to have fun and also get some money at the same time).

     

    Fair enough, and I actually do enjoy reading your posts as a counter argument to some people that get overly emotional about things.  You stay very grounded in facts which I can respect.  I have just never seen anyone so passionate about free gaming. 

    I doubt he is "passionate" about the posts he makes about f2p vs everything else. Judging by his post count and how often he is engaging in conversation on this website, I'd make the assumption that his "passion" is entirely ego driven. 

    He is trying to be the "white knight of f2p". Every new thread is the same old "f2p is better than the rest look at statistics!'

  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member
    Originally posted by XAPKen

    Times change, markets change, tech changes, games change, payment models adapt.

     

    I think Scarlet Blade is a great example.  Have you ever seen anyone say it should be monetized as box plus subscription?  I doubt it.  Now ask yourself why is that.

     

    because its a korean MMO adapted for play in the states and is mostly expecting to make a bit of quick cash, since they did little more then translate, (and badly i might add)

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    YAY the companies are making more money! That is so great news for us gamers...

    Except it is NOT. Are the MMO quality of games improving? I say a big NO to that. Short of GW 2, there hasn't been a good MMO released in years.

  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member
    Originally posted by Yamota

    YAY the companies are making more money! That is so great news for us gamers...

    Except it is NOT. Are the MMO quality of games improving? I say a big NO to that. Short of GW 2, there hasn't been a good MMO released in years.

    and some would argue that one.

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

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