I mean what does it do, let you buy the latest raid set? If thats the case isnt that like buying a book and only reading the last page? Not really winning.
It has PVP, fyi. Instanced BGs but it still has PVP. There even a daily that rewards you with 1000 astral diamonds (main currency) for doing one.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I often see the point being made that no one forces you to buy anything from a cash shop or play a F2P game at all. So don’t complain over companies that offer this.
That is true, on a cognitive level but totally disregards the emotional side of gaming.
Choosing a game and sticking to a game is for the most part an emotional thing. Its much like being fan of a sports team. Playing a mmorpg requires much more commitment than most other genres. It does not make sense to start with a mmorpg if you don’t plan to invest many hours of playtime.
So if you happen to be fan of a club that starts ripping of his loyal fans, you are screwed and with a mmo it is the same.
The relation of between players and developers is not just a commercial relationship but one of loyalty. The players commit themselves to the game and therefore the company should also show some responsibility for its players.
If I was a fan of a club, and the club started ripping off their fans I have no problem handing in my fan card.
Same with a game.
You control your emotions, perhaps not the initial one, but as soon as you are aware of it, you sure do. It's a choice.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I mean what does it do, let you buy the latest raid set? If thats the case isnt that like buying a book and only reading the last page? Not really winning.
It has PVP, fyi. Instanced BGs but it still has PVP. There even a daily that rewards you with 1000 astral diamonds (main currency) for doing one.
A type of currency used in-game to purchase gear and to bid in the auction house.
2 mil divided by 1000, do the math and see how P2W this game is. The main thing that makes me reconsider trying the game. It would take me 2000 days just to get those 2 mil, doesn't make sense at all.
If I am paying a sub then I would expect to have access to all the game offers. I don't want a certain amount of store cash to come each month with my sub that forces me into the game store, just give me what I have paid for.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Originally posted by Slampig If I am paying a sub then I would expect to have access to all the game offers. I don't want a certain amount of store cash to come each month with my sub that forces me into the game store, just give me what I have paid for.
NW is free and you do have access to everything the game offers.
"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied." ^MMORPG.com
Why would anyone boycott a game that is free to play? Did you ever boycott a network television show? I've already gotten more enjoyment out of Neverwinter than GW2.. Therefore everyone who didn't boycott GW2 is a fool, encouraging developers and publishers make more crappy games...
Oh wait, neither of these are crappy games! Never mind.
I was confused by the title simply because I'm used to the acronym "P2W" and not "B2W" and initially thought it to be B2P, which made me quirk an eyebrow as the OP seemed to praise well-made B2P systems (Defiance referenced). Now, this was a difficult thread for me to respond to because, simply put, I agree very much with the message, but not so much the way it being expressed.
Personally I've been saying for a long time that new payment models are needed (which is to say I'm against any "scam" like behavior on the side of companies with dollars signs in their eyes).
Though in terms to boycotting Neverwinter I'm a little remiss and wonder what is exactly meant by it; there are a few topics regarding this that I already put my two cents in, so I'm just seriously wondering what people consider to be P2W or a purchase that is absolutely necessary within that store (especially since the base game was free). I guess you can't appease everyone, and some people are so closed minded (in general) that they don't accept anything new (as seen in comparison to WoW games; some complain it's too much like, others that it's not enough like when it comes to reviewing new MMOs). Developers are probably scratching their head, too scared to bring about any new payment models simply because people will attack it and then boycott it, and potential customers will be lost by people's rhetoric on an already expensive genre to partake in.
For instance, I very much boycotted Defiance simply because they advertised as a preorder reward the "fastest car in the game" ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRdEIEzW5uo ) as a reward. Back then I was subscribed to the theory, faster travel = finishing the game sooner / getting to quests faster and thus leveling up much quicker than the average player who does no preorder games. It's still a game I don't play because that left a bad taste in my mouth (in addition to all those additional bags on steam), but it's more so because it just isn't my type of game (shooter) now and not that I am morally against the way they advertised their game to garnish more sales.
People boycot things for silly reasons, like my own above about Defiance. It's technically not fair to the developer, especially if they're trying something new or getting away from that horrid P2P scam (let's be honest, many think we're suckers for renting a game and, while we've been trained to accept it and can name a few social benefits here and there -- most of which are personal opinion as you can find good in pretty much anything -- we're still being "taken for a ride") whereby people are led to believe in terms of micropayments and "just stop going to Mcdonalds once a month" that's been propagated since Ultima Online (when monthly fees were only $9.95 and bandwidth really was expensive). I've since began thinking like a business (as a consumer), and not tunneled into a group mindset. Just from playing WoW since open beta I've paid roughly $1600 in monthly fees, not including the initial collector's edition, expansions and name changes / character transfers / mount purchases. This is also not included the multiple accounts I had, the boxes I had to pay for them, and the years I paid for them to be put up. Now I simply don't have access to a game I spent over $3,500 for because with P2P all you're doing is basically renting said game and never "owning" it (much like how I would never rent furniture). This is also one reason why I'm somewhat against being unable to sell used games in next generation consoles (though another side of me wants developers to get money on used sales some how).
There is a time and a place where you need to put your foot down, perhaps even make a PSA that something is unacceptable. But we must also not fall into the trap of being closed minded and doing so for each game without exception. I was technically wrong to do so with Defiance with the context of what exactly they were bringing me. In my opinion it's wrong to boycott Neverwinter (for one I don't see the problem) when looking at it from the same point of view as where I think I was wrong with Defiance. It's a game that costed me no initial money, that tries to do something new with their incredibly powerful Toolset that people could make their own adventures and the like with, and simply has a cash shop to help pay for the game's creation and other costs.
With every game that has come out with the Lifesub option, I have pretty much taken advantage of simply because I don't want to have to deal with renting a game. I've no problem paying a set fee at the beginning and then playing a game as much as I want (much like you seem to want in your first paragraph, OP). Indeed, it has not been a decision I have ever regretted, as these P2P games that eventually couldn't make it in the dying P2P market (in no small part due to WoW and players who troll other games that aren't WoW and or compare it to WoW) have always given me a good deal even when they went Free to Play. But we're starting to enter a new generation, and we need to start thinking of these things -- how best to proceed in a new digital and social experience age -- as MMOs make their way into console markets with new hardware and what the new blood would like to see.
If we keep on shunning gaming companies, they will start in on an audience that isn't so jaded or "into" World of Warcraft and the like (as we all see happening whenever a new game is out, regardless of what the game is).
So technically I agree with the premise you're trying to bring to the table, but not so much with the examples you brought to it. The game SWTOR would probably would've been a better example to stick with (as you mentioned in your second paragraph) simply because I agree that most of what they do is sickening in trying to make the experience horrid if you don't buy something in their store. Though that game has been given a bad time enough already, so I guess giving them a break wouldn't be too bad of an idea.
Edit:
If you take a look at NCsoft's status from some time back, you can see just how much "Bandwidth" costs them from all of their games combined (from my understanding).
*Others (It's so insignificant that it is put into the others section)
Bandwidth: 5,634
Rent: 3,229
Etc.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Originally posted by Etherignis @Yaevindusk please space between paragraph my eyes hurt.
Hmm... I already applied spaces, but I'll add another for you.
I tend to try to keep some only one line apart on long posts, so that they don't seem even longer.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Most of this hate just seems to come from the fact that its Cryptic and Perfect World. Yet the irony is that DDO from Turbine offers far more Pay to Win than Neverwinter.
What are you guys classifying as pay to win? A tier 3 horse? Companions? You can get both of those from normal gameplay. Blue gear from drop boxes? You can get better from normal gameplay. What exactly is anyone winning aside from some cosmetic stuff or some convenience items?
This is almost as dumb as calling GW2 P2W because it offered XP boosts.
If people buying convenience items and fluff items bothers you, dont play F2P. Noone else cares if you boycott it or not.
For years, MMO publishers were stuck with a very difficult problem: monthly subscribers flatly resisted any increase in the sub rates, while their shareholders continually demanded better profits.
Newsflash: I dont give a crap about shareholders increasing demands for profit. Neither should you, if there is any sanity left in you.
A game is a bad deal ? Then those profit addicts can just play it themselves. Maybe that will cure them from their greed. End of story.
Originally posted by remyburke Don't worry OP, you aren't alone. The masses will figure it out eventually as well. Give them time.
Exactly how long does it take for people to figure out that they are slaving themselves in an mmorpg to grind enough in game cash(which mostly takes about 2 months) to buy a single cash shop item? people will never learn. they will never understand.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Originally posted by flizzer I understand how Cryptic raises concernes, but for me as soon as I saw Perfect World the alarm bells went off.
Same for me, cryptic took license for neverwinter before they were bought by PWE and i liked their facebook page and subscribed for neverwinter newsletter but after 2 months they got bought out by PWE and i instantly unliked their FB page and removed newsletter subscription. NO WAY i am playing another PWE game, one was quite enough.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Originally posted by Torgrim I boycotted this game as soon as I knew Cryptic was behind the wheel.
Please stop using that word incorrectly. Unless you wrote letters to all companies involved, told all your friends and family and generally tried to create a grass-roots movement to shed light on the behavior of cryptic, you didn't boycott anything.
Um, no ?
To boycott something just means you intentionally dont do it.
You dont have to actively publish it and try to make other people boycott it as well.
For example I always explain why I strictly avoid SteamWorks, and I explain why I dont tolerate it, but I dont actively propagate people shouldnt do it - I just point out that its a huge hole in your computer security, and the people who made this system made it after being completely hacked.
I mean what does it do, let you buy the latest raid set? If thats the case isnt that like buying a book and only reading the last page? Not really winning.
It has PVP, fyi. Instanced BGs but it still has PVP. There even a daily that rewards you with 1000 astral diamonds (main currency) for doing one.
A type of currency used in-game to purchase gear and to bid in the auction house.
2 mil divided by 1000, do the math and see how P2W this game is. The main thing that makes me reconsider trying the game. It would take me 2000 days just to get those 2 mil, doesn't make sense at all.
Yes, ONE quest gets you 1k Astral Diamonds.
Thats about 10 minutes of time spent.
Now compare that time spent getting that vs time spent getting the mone you would have spent on Diamonds / Zen.
Oh look...
Time is Money friend.
If something takes you 3 months of grinding in a sub game to get, you spent around 45 bucks to get that item. (To have the privliage of earning the item)
If you spend 45 bucks on their cash shop you get the item now in a Cash shop game, or you could play for 3 months doing dailies and quests to get the same item for free.
I don't know, downloading and playing for free beats paying 60bucks to then find a complete disappointment of a game that on top of that also has cash shop with both fluff and combat boosting items (GW2). It also beats paying for the box, paying for the subscription, paying for the expansions and paying for the fluff (WoW).
If you don't like Cryptic's model you're in your right, but while you don't like it, you didn't spend a dime on it. In fact I plan to play NWO countless hours without spending a dime on it. The only thing that matters to me is that you can't buy superior endgame gear through the cash shop. It's by far the best payment model (aka, no payment) compared to others that milk you dry up front if you ever want to try the game out, whether you'll like the game or not afterwards.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
Most of this hate just seems to come from the fact that its Cryptic and Perfect World. Yet the irony is that DDO from Turbine offers far more Pay to Win than Neverwinter.
What are you guys classifying as pay to win? A tier 3 horse? Companions? You can get both of those from normal gameplay. Blue gear from drop boxes? You can get better from normal gameplay. What exactly is anyone winning aside from some cosmetic stuff or some convenience items?
This is almost as dumb as calling GW2 P2W because it offered XP boosts.
If people buying convenience items and fluff items bothers you, dont play F2P. Noone else cares if you boycott it or not.
Pretty much this right here. People on this site don't know what they want, first they hate p2p and think all games should be f2p, then bitch when said f2p adds a CS with fluff items in it.
Shit ain't free folks, the sooner you understand that the bettter off you will be.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Originally posted by Jorl I'm waiting for it to be open access, which is 19 hours from now. I learned my lesson from TERA and WarZ... no way will i cough up £50 pounds for beta.
Comments
It has PVP, fyi. Instanced BGs but it still has PVP. There even a daily that rewards you with 1000 astral diamonds (main currency) for doing one.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
If I was a fan of a club, and the club started ripping off their fans I have no problem handing in my fan card.
Same with a game.
You control your emotions, perhaps not the initial one, but as soon as you are aware of it, you sure do. It's a choice.
1000 astral per day, thx for info.
http://nw.perfectworld.com/founderspack/hero - for founder pack
2,000,000 Astral Diamonds
A type of currency used in-game to purchase gear and to bid in the auction house.
2 mil divided by 1000, do the math and see how P2W this game is. The main thing that makes me reconsider trying the game. It would take me 2000 days just to get those 2 mil, doesn't make sense at all.
Starcraft oldschool aka wise/04. SWG/UO aka Wise HeRo, Light Jedi Knight pre-cu (Bria)
I dont get it happy to spend 60 bucks on a game and spend 15 bucks a month but spend like 10 dollars on a F2P game omg P2W etc.
Yet NW doesnt have anything in its shop that you must have to compete so not sure how it's P2W.
"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
^MMORPG.com
Sooo, budget out $15 a month to spend in the cash shop? Make the rest up in the astral diamond exchange?
The only things thats are really needed are bags, character slots, and maybe a mount.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
NW is free and you do have access to everything the game offers.
"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
^MMORPG.com
Why would anyone boycott a game that is free to play? Did you ever boycott a network television show? I've already gotten more enjoyment out of Neverwinter than GW2.. Therefore everyone who didn't boycott GW2 is a fool, encouraging developers and publishers make more crappy games...
Oh wait, neither of these are crappy games! Never mind.
I was confused by the title simply because I'm used to the acronym "P2W" and not "B2W" and initially thought it to be B2P, which made me quirk an eyebrow as the OP seemed to praise well-made B2P systems (Defiance referenced). Now, this was a difficult thread for me to respond to because, simply put, I agree very much with the message, but not so much the way it being expressed.
Personally I've been saying for a long time that new payment models are needed (which is to say I'm against any "scam" like behavior on the side of companies with dollars signs in their eyes).
Though in terms to boycotting Neverwinter I'm a little remiss and wonder what is exactly meant by it; there are a few topics regarding this that I already put my two cents in, so I'm just seriously wondering what people consider to be P2W or a purchase that is absolutely necessary within that store (especially since the base game was free). I guess you can't appease everyone, and some people are so closed minded (in general) that they don't accept anything new (as seen in comparison to WoW games; some complain it's too much like, others that it's not enough like when it comes to reviewing new MMOs). Developers are probably scratching their head, too scared to bring about any new payment models simply because people will attack it and then boycott it, and potential customers will be lost by people's rhetoric on an already expensive genre to partake in.
For instance, I very much boycotted Defiance simply because they advertised as a preorder reward the "fastest car in the game" ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRdEIEzW5uo ) as a reward. Back then I was subscribed to the theory, faster travel = finishing the game sooner / getting to quests faster and thus leveling up much quicker than the average player who does no preorder games. It's still a game I don't play because that left a bad taste in my mouth (in addition to all those additional bags on steam), but it's more so because it just isn't my type of game (shooter) now and not that I am morally against the way they advertised their game to garnish more sales.
People boycot things for silly reasons, like my own above about Defiance. It's technically not fair to the developer, especially if they're trying something new or getting away from that horrid P2P scam (let's be honest, many think we're suckers for renting a game and, while we've been trained to accept it and can name a few social benefits here and there -- most of which are personal opinion as you can find good in pretty much anything -- we're still being "taken for a ride") whereby people are led to believe in terms of micropayments and "just stop going to Mcdonalds once a month" that's been propagated since Ultima Online (when monthly fees were only $9.95 and bandwidth really was expensive). I've since began thinking like a business (as a consumer), and not tunneled into a group mindset. Just from playing WoW since open beta I've paid roughly $1600 in monthly fees, not including the initial collector's edition, expansions and name changes / character transfers / mount purchases. This is also not included the multiple accounts I had, the boxes I had to pay for them, and the years I paid for them to be put up. Now I simply don't have access to a game I spent over $3,500 for because with P2P all you're doing is basically renting said game and never "owning" it (much like how I would never rent furniture). This is also one reason why I'm somewhat against being unable to sell used games in next generation consoles (though another side of me wants developers to get money on used sales some how).
There is a time and a place where you need to put your foot down, perhaps even make a PSA that something is unacceptable. But we must also not fall into the trap of being closed minded and doing so for each game without exception. I was technically wrong to do so with Defiance with the context of what exactly they were bringing me. In my opinion it's wrong to boycott Neverwinter (for one I don't see the problem) when looking at it from the same point of view as where I think I was wrong with Defiance. It's a game that costed me no initial money, that tries to do something new with their incredibly powerful Toolset that people could make their own adventures and the like with, and simply has a cash shop to help pay for the game's creation and other costs.
With every game that has come out with the Lifesub option, I have pretty much taken advantage of simply because I don't want to have to deal with renting a game. I've no problem paying a set fee at the beginning and then playing a game as much as I want (much like you seem to want in your first paragraph, OP). Indeed, it has not been a decision I have ever regretted, as these P2P games that eventually couldn't make it in the dying P2P market (in no small part due to WoW and players who troll other games that aren't WoW and or compare it to WoW) have always given me a good deal even when they went Free to Play. But we're starting to enter a new generation, and we need to start thinking of these things -- how best to proceed in a new digital and social experience age -- as MMOs make their way into console markets with new hardware and what the new blood would like to see.
If we keep on shunning gaming companies, they will start in on an audience that isn't so jaded or "into" World of Warcraft and the like (as we all see happening whenever a new game is out, regardless of what the game is).
So technically I agree with the premise you're trying to bring to the table, but not so much with the examples you brought to it. The game SWTOR would probably would've been a better example to stick with (as you mentioned in your second paragraph) simply because I agree that most of what they do is sickening in trying to make the experience horrid if you don't buy something in their store. Though that game has been given a bad time enough already, so I guess giving them a break wouldn't be too bad of an idea.
Edit:
If you take a look at NCsoft's status from some time back, you can see just how much "Bandwidth" costs them from all of their games combined (from my understanding).
http://www.scribd.com/doc/102444902/NCSoft-Q2-2012-Financial-Results
#3
*Others (It's so insignificant that it is put into the others section)
Bandwidth: 5,634
Rent: 3,229
Etc.
Hmm... I already applied spaces, but I'll add another for you.
I tend to try to keep some only one line apart on long posts, so that they don't seem even longer.
this
Most of this hate just seems to come from the fact that its Cryptic and Perfect World. Yet the irony is that DDO from Turbine offers far more Pay to Win than Neverwinter.
What are you guys classifying as pay to win? A tier 3 horse? Companions? You can get both of those from normal gameplay. Blue gear from drop boxes? You can get better from normal gameplay. What exactly is anyone winning aside from some cosmetic stuff or some convenience items?
This is almost as dumb as calling GW2 P2W because it offered XP boosts.
If people buying convenience items and fluff items bothers you, dont play F2P. Noone else cares if you boycott it or not.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
There is no "b2w". That makes no sense. B stands for "buy" and means you buy ONCE.
Its probably "p2w". Pay to Win means you constantly have to buy stuff to "win" the game.
And yeah, I dont support this attitude either.
Newsflash: I dont give a crap about shareholders increasing demands for profit. Neither should you, if there is any sanity left in you.
A game is a bad deal ? Then those profit addicts can just play it themselves. Maybe that will cure them from their greed. End of story.
What good luck would be needed there ? You just dont play it. Nothing else needed. Including no luck whatsoever.
Exactly how long does it take for people to figure out that they are slaving themselves in an mmorpg to grind enough in game cash(which mostly takes about 2 months) to buy a single cash shop item? people will never learn. they will never understand.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Same for me, cryptic took license for neverwinter before they were bought by PWE and i liked their facebook page and subscribed for neverwinter newsletter but after 2 months they got bought out by PWE and i instantly unliked their FB page and removed newsletter subscription. NO WAY i am playing another PWE game, one was quite enough.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Um, no ?
To boycott something just means you intentionally dont do it.
You dont have to actively publish it and try to make other people boycott it as well.
For example I always explain why I strictly avoid SteamWorks, and I explain why I dont tolerate it, but I dont actively propagate people shouldnt do it - I just point out that its a huge hole in your computer security, and the people who made this system made it after being completely hacked.
Yes, ONE quest gets you 1k Astral Diamonds.
Thats about 10 minutes of time spent.
Now compare that time spent getting that vs time spent getting the mone you would have spent on Diamonds / Zen.
Oh look...
Time is Money friend.
If something takes you 3 months of grinding in a sub game to get, you spent around 45 bucks to get that item. (To have the privliage of earning the item)
If you spend 45 bucks on their cash shop you get the item now in a Cash shop game, or you could play for 3 months doing dailies and quests to get the same item for free.
Seems balanced and not pay to win.
I don't know, downloading and playing for free beats paying 60bucks to then find a complete disappointment of a game that on top of that also has cash shop with both fluff and combat boosting items (GW2). It also beats paying for the box, paying for the subscription, paying for the expansions and paying for the fluff (WoW).
If you don't like Cryptic's model you're in your right, but while you don't like it, you didn't spend a dime on it. In fact I plan to play NWO countless hours without spending a dime on it. The only thing that matters to me is that you can't buy superior endgame gear through the cash shop. It's by far the best payment model (aka, no payment) compared to others that milk you dry up front if you ever want to try the game out, whether you'll like the game or not afterwards.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
Pretty much this right here. People on this site don't know what they want, first they hate p2p and think all games should be f2p, then bitch when said f2p adds a CS with fluff items in it.
Shit ain't free folks, the sooner you understand that the bettter off you will be.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
50 pounds of what?