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PvP is such an awesome feature... I would say almost a "must" in a MMO

xKopogeroxxKopogerox ShebattPosts: 68Member

Watching game companies PvP against each other and seeing them face the obvious choice of merge or extinction, it's just lovely.

My prediction is the game company that will outshine the rest in the long run will also featiure a PvP system in their product that will just be on another whole level.

Look at Blizzard for example, one of the best gaming companies on the market and despite that they still decided to merge with Activision. World of Warcraft PvP was better if not best than any other MMO for a long time.

So what are your predictions and which companies in the long run will fade away in the abyss or merge to deliver something good enough to earn your $?

Starcraft oldschool aka wise/04. SWG/UO aka Wise HeRo, Light Jedi Knight pre-cu (Bria)

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Comments

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,419Member Uncommon

    Misleading title much?

     

    Forced PvP pretty much means no playing for this household's subs, and the more PvP focus there is the less goes to other aspects of the game.   Less liklihood of their success here as well.

     

    As for company PvP:  I hope the big dragons fall.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • PyndaPynda Posts: 738Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by xKopogerox
    World of Warcraft PvP was better if not best than any other MMO for a long time.


    From my perspective I'd have to disagree with that opinion. Although I didn't play WoW much, I found world PvP (while it lasted, apparently?) to be a generally pointless lagfest....although fun for a bit. And as for Arena matches, why play a MMORPG at all? Why not just go duke it out non-stop in a First Person Shooter if that's what you enjoy?


    Anyway, I think it's been well demonstrated that most MMORPG players in western countries are not agreeable to forced, group or die type PvP. There have to be options for the times a player just wants to kick back, explore a little, craft a little, or do some PvE'ing. Othwerwise the game is going to be niche at best. However I'm not saying this necessarily means lots of safe zones, etc.. It just means you won't definitely be squashed like a bug by gank squads within minutes if you decide to partake in some of the above activities. And play in a reasonably smart manner.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,680Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xKopogerox

    Watching game companies PvP against each other and seeing them face the obvious choice of merge or extinction, it's just lovely.

    My prediction is the game company that will outshine the rest in the long run will also featiure a PvP system in their product that will just be on another whole level.

    Look at Blizzard for example, one of the best gaming companies on the market and despite that they still decided to merge with Activision. World of Warcraft PvP was better if not best than any other MMO for a long time.

    So what are your predictions and which companies in the long run will fade away in the abyss or merge to deliver something good enough to earn your $?

    You guys really need to get over this There Can Be Only One thing. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,462Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by xKopogerox

    Watching game companies PvP against each other and seeing them face the obvious choice of merge or extinction, it's just lovely.

    My prediction is the game company that will outshine the rest in the long run will also featiure a PvP system in their product that will just be on another whole level.

    Look at Blizzard for example, one of the best gaming companies on the market and despite that they still decided to merge with Activision. World of Warcraft PvP was better if not best than any other MMO for a long time.

    So what are your predictions and which companies in the long run will fade away in the abyss or merge to deliver something good enough to earn your $?

    You guys really need to get over this There Can Be Only One thing. 

    They can't, it's just not possible, it comes from having a very "focused" world view.

    @op: I disagree with you, but partially agree with you for "my taste", in that I can't understand how WoW pvp is the best when there is no territory control. Yet I prefer a pvp end game. Just not one that is wrapped up in battlegrounds.

  • DeathWolf2uDeathWolf2u Maryville, ILPosts: 291Member

    PvP in mmorpg's is an awesome feature for the cheaters that script their way through it. Most honest gamers do not prefer PvP at all and like me when I have the need for competitive play against other players I will play an FPS game where it is your actual skill as a gamer with a keyboard and mouse rather than the mmorpg route which takes not much skill at all especially when it is so easy to script.

     

    No....I prefer PVE in mmorpg's because that's what those type of games are really geared for.

  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,869Member Uncommon

    Same shit, different day.

    Player competition in a game world is fine. Spamming F1 to F5 to see who has better latency is just a waste of time.

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,765Member Uncommon

    OP your own poll, with a massive PVP bias, barely showed more "Both PVP/PVE" players than "PVE only" players.  So while you can say PVP is a must for you, it's hard to say it's required for a MMORPG.

    In fact, with an unbiased poll you'd find that most players are completely fine with a PVE-only MMORPG (and certainly there's a massive desire for PVP-optional MMORPGs where a user can choose whether they want PVE or a PVP/PVE mix.)

    Generally speaking, MMORPGs favor the PVE crowd because PVP with progression tends to be rather shallow (play longer or bring more friends to win.)  Whereas when players want PVP, they typically want real, meaty, deep PVP -- and MMORPGs don't have that.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • ReeseFlamelocksReeseFlamelocks Barstow, CAPosts: 43Member
    Combining PvE and PvP ultimately requires a developer to make the concession that playing against another player is somehow similar to playing an AI mob. This will never be the case, until Skynet proplery evolves. Beginning with this premise, you can't properly craft a game around two fundamentally different conflicts. For ideal results, PvP and PvE should be seperated in games. I have never played Wow, but from what I understand PvP is a fairly inconsequential aspect of the game. (As most PvP is in most PvE-oriented games.) In other words, it's highly structured carebear baby-PvP.

    Played: UO, DAoC, Shadowbane, DDO, LOTRO, Aion, Rift, TERA
    Sampled: WoW, AoC, GW2, Vanguard, FF XIV, Neverwinter
    Playing: ESO

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member
    A MMO can easily survive without PvP entirely but if the developers want to attract more players, as selling games is a business, there has to be a PvP option. The key word here is option
  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Why do people call it pvp in mmos ? It's gear vrs gear.
  • AdamantineAdamantine NowherePosts: 3,514Member Common

    Tip: If its gear vs gear, you have a poorly designed PvP game.

    And there is absolutely no reason to "rejoice" about gaming companies "battle" each other. Less gaming companies just means less choice for you. And less choice means worse choices.

    Ideal for the player would be a market of 100+ companies all offering alternatives.

    The ultimate disaster for a player would be one monopolist as only choice.

     

  • EmrendilEmrendil TirionPosts: 199Member
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Why do people call it pvp in mmos ? It's gear vrs gear.

    Yep, pretty much, and build vs build :)

  • EmrendilEmrendil TirionPosts: 199Member
    I just can't stand PvP in mmorpgs, i have other games for that (LoL or Dota 2).
  • SmikisSmikis VilniusPosts: 1,045Member

    blizzard, belongs to vivendi, vivendi bought activision, there was no blizzard decided to merge with activision, there was no merge at any kinda,just one name for vivendis gaming division

     

    and we had pvp focused mmorpgs for last 10 years, not one of them did good, not a single one

     

    there is big issue in pvp, someone always have to die to make it fun, and for that person it wont be fun

    best pvp i hadwas in alterac valley in wow, why? because of all decisions you could do, all the pve that involved in pvp made it so much better, all different objectives you could do, summon huge elemental, call air wyverns , wolf riders, upgrade guards, capture mines, and so on, not just kill, cap flag, kill over and  over

  • ShorunShorun ViennaPosts: 248Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xKopogerox

    Look at Blizzard for example, one of the best gaming companies on the market and despite that they still decided to merge with Activision. World of Warcraft PvP was better if not best than any other MMO for a long time.

    What? WoW? The game where every class has about ten CCs and you're stunned, knocked out, frozen, bound or silenced all the time? The game where anyone who has been grinding pvp gear longer than you can kill you in 2 blows?

    I only liked pvp in WAR (in the early lvls, not the endgame) and in GW1+2 so far, because you didn't have to grind gear for months to be good (again, with WAR only in the early lvls).

    Also, I don't think small battles make sense in an mmorpg. A battlegroup must at least have the size to feature every class. Or you give everyone the ability to do everything, like in GW1 (with the dual classes) and 2. 2on2 arena battles don't make a lot of sense in a class-based RPG if you ask me.

    And I would totally play a game without PvP. In fact, my favourite multiplayer RPGs are FF:Crystal Chronicles and the "Tales of..." games. The most fun you can have in an RPG with your friends!

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Wow pvp sucks.

    It somes up all that is wrong with most mmo pvp.
    1 instanced timed matches and the associated sat in a city bloody queueing
    2 ridiculous stun lock / fear lock etc.. style cried control
    3 token grind for a never ending set of tiered item sets.
    4 system that encourages people to afk / bot their way to tokens.
    5 system that encourages people to loose quickly once they are loosing, again to grind tokens quicker.
    6 "pvp" servers that are just flip a switch and good pvp magically happens
    7 even when they added outdoor stuff like lwg, they stuck it on a timer - because in the mind of wow devs, pvp is something you should do for "fun" while waiting for your raid to form.
    8 stupid special pvp only stat
    9 stupid 1vs1 class balancing that leads to boring homogeneous classes and a whole boat load of forum whine.

    Wow is a great game if you like doing dungeons.
    It should never ever be used as an example of good pvp.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Forgot the big one
    10 gear > skill > teamwork
  • Total_HuntTotal_Hunt ChichesterPosts: 65Member

    For PvP I play FPS/TPS/RTS/MOBA games. There are so many better options for PvP.

     

    In an MMORPG I want to kill dragons with my guild.

     

    I think the only reason that PvP is popular in MMORPG's is because it can be done more casually than raiding.

  • bleakravenbleakraven BredaPosts: 24Member
    Originally posted by StonesDK
    A MMO can easily survive without PvP entirely but if the developers want to attract more players, as selling games is a business, there has to be a PvP option. The key word here is option

    I fully agree with you. Options are good. Even if I don't use it, just having the option there makes me feel good.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Total

    In your wow style games perhaps yes.

    In a game actually designed for pvp, like say eve, lol no way.
  • bubalubabubaluba LjubljanaPosts: 434Member
    PVP is everything in mmo, pve is just for leveling. And you are right about wow pvp, that is the reason why wow will still shine for many many years
  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,172Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by xKopogerox

    Watching game companies PvP against each other and seeing them face the obvious choice of merge or extinction, it's just lovely.

    My prediction is the game company that will outshine the rest in the long run will also featiure a PvP system in their product that will just be on another whole level.

    Look at Blizzard for example, one of the best gaming companies on the market and despite that they still decided to merge with Activision. World of Warcraft PvP was better if not best than any other MMO for a long time.

    So what are your predictions and which companies in the long run will fade away in the abyss or merge to deliver something good enough to earn your $?

    You guys really need to get over this There Can Be Only One thing. 

    ^ that guy hits it spot on.

     

     

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • asrlohzasrlohz UddevallaPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by bubaluba
    PVP is everything in mmo, pve is just for leveling. And you are right about wow pvp, that is the reason why wow will still shine for many many years

    No, WoW shines because everyone has their guildmates, friends and sometimes even family in there. Nobody plays it because its combat is "so" great. If it depended on the PvP everyone would have left WoW during Cataclysm. And every last WoW player would be playing Forge at the moment.

    image
  • Total_HuntTotal_Hunt ChichesterPosts: 65Member
    Originally posted by bubaluba
    PVP is everything in mmo, pve is just for leveling. And you are right about wow pvp, that is the reason why wow will still shine for many many years

    /facepalm

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,765Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Shorun

    What? WoW? The game where every class has about ten CCs and you're stunned, knocked out, frozen, bound or silenced all the time? The game where anyone who has been grinding pvp gear longer than you can kill you in 2 blows?

    I only liked pvp in WAR (in the early lvls, not the endgame) and in GW1+2 so far, because you didn't have to grind gear for months to be good (again, with WAR only in the early lvls).

    Also, I don't think small battles make sense in an mmorpg. A battlegroup must at least have the size to feature every class. Or you give everyone the ability to do everything, like in GW1 (with the dual classes) and 2. 2on2 arena battles don't make a lot of sense in a class-based RPG if you ask me.

    And I would totally play a game without PvP. In fact, my favourite multiplayer RPGs are FF:Crystal Chronicles and the "Tales of..." games. The most fun you can have in an RPG with your friends!

    Criticizing WOW's amount of CCs?  Sounds legit.

    But to claim you prefer WAR PVP immediately afterwards?  That's more than a little ridiculous.

    I crunched the numbers one time.  My Ironbreaker, if surrounded by just 5 opponents, could cause 24 CC effects in 20 seconds.  The amount of CC in WAR is beyond any semblence of balance or reason, and far in excess of WOW's CC.

    (24 CC effects in 20 seconds!  That's more than 1/sec!  I guess I shouldn't have been surprised after they made that design mistake (too much CC) and then made another design mistake to fix it (CC immunity timers) rather than simply fixing the first mistake and avoiding the second entirely.)

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

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