Originally posted by Mkilbride Lol, I knew if I posted this article, MMORPG would come in to ruin what is an awesome piece by OnRPG.
What's really funny is that if a similarly melodramatic and extremely biased articel was posted about (oh let's choose a game at random) Wildstar .tThen the majority of people who think the opinion piece you presented us is awesome and the God's honest truth would be calling out the Wildstar article as biased and overly dramatic and villifying the author.
Quoting this because It's a crime no one's acknowledged this post yet.
And in regards to the article:
Just the title alone is such a sensationalist load of garbage I find it really hard to care about anything else he's saying.
I'm not sure what about that post is a legitimate point?
Are you saying that there actually were some CU fans that went to the Wildstar forums to bash an article about Wildstar? Do you have a link?
And then furthermore are you saying that the appropriate mature response would be to respond in kind to such behavior?
What? How? I don't....
How did you even get any of that?
All it means is a lot of people defending this article would turn right around and bash any other sensational article if it was a different game.
Sensationalist titles and insane claims are not how you convince outsiders to join your fandom.
In that case I dont understand what you are basing this opinion on?
What evidence do you have that people here would go out of their way to bash on another game?
Other forums seem mostly clear of the blind hatred being directed towards CU. If a sensationalist article was posted about another game... nobody would care except the fans of that game.
Its just here on the CU forums that the forum warriors have declared it their duty to personally bash and verbally attack every overly excited fan.
I wonder why Camelot Unchained was prevented from having a Paypal method, when there are other MMOs on Kickstarter with clear paypal buttons on their kickstarter page.
Originally posted by PeZzy I wonder why Camelot Unchained was prevented from having a Paypal method, when there are other MMOs on Kickstarter with clear paypal buttons on their kickstarter page.
As far as I know, paypal option only comes in after the project funds.
Originally posted by PeZzy I wonder why Camelot Unchained was prevented from having a Paypal method, when there are other MMOs on Kickstarter with clear paypal buttons on their kickstarter page.
...Really !!! .. If this is correct it certainly would have an effect on a Kickstarter programme or anyone selling anything online really. For example if you had two identicle Ebay traders and only one had Paypal the one without would almost certainly lose out. When making payments on the net trust is always the primary concern and I have to say from my point of view I always scratch my head if someone isn't using Paypal. I am in the niche collectible industry where we Sculpt and Manufacture niche market figurine and the Paypal icon and availability is recognized worldwide making it a business must.
...I will be backing this game but am slightly annoyed for them really that someone 'stupidly' negleted to offer this facility. If it was MJ himself he should swiftly punch himself in the face ..... if an employee slipped up ... . equally a punch in the face....maybe two or three if the campaign bottoms out at $1.990.000.
.....all these threads...all the time spent and reading some really dedicated folks talk about the nitty and griity of every concievable aspect of the game when tragically the Pilot who has just has picked up a lottery winner in a helicopter get's told on the radio that Larry the Fuel guy didn't turn up for work this morning as the red the red light starts flashing as he begin's to regret the decision of a short cut over Mount McKinley.......If you were the lottery guy / backer I feel your knuckles would be whitening...
Originally posted by PeZzy I wonder why Camelot Unchained was prevented from having a Paypal method, when there are other MMOs on Kickstarter with clear paypal buttons on their kickstarter page.
...Really !!! .. If this is correct it certainly would have an effect on a Kickstarter programme or anyone selling anything online really. For example if you had two identicle Ebay traders and only one had Paypal the one without would almost certainly lose out. When making payments on the net trust is always the primary concern and I have to say from my point of view I always scratch my head if someone isn't using Paypal. I am in the niche collectible industry where we Sculpt and Manufacture niche market figurine and the Paypal icon and availability is recognized worldwide making it a business must.
...I will be backing this game but am slightly annoyed for them really that someone 'stupidly' negleted to offer this facility. If it was MJ himself he should swiftly punch himself in the face ..... if an employee slipped up ... . equally a punch in the face....maybe two or three if the campaign bottoms out at $1.990.000.
Its the way Kickstarter works, they cant offer Paypal until the Kickstarter reaches the requested funding. The pages this person is talking about had the Paypal button added to them after they reached their original target funding amount.
Kickstarter does not accept Paypal as a funding method so any Paypal funding doesnt count towards whether or not the project funds on Kickstarter. There are a bunch of legal issues because Paypal charges you immediately, which would be bad if the project then missed its funding requirement. The Amazon.com system allows for you to only be charged after the Kickstarter is finished.
Its the way Kickstarter works, they cant offer Paypal until the Kickstarter reaches the requested funding. The pages this person is talking about had the Paypal button added to them after they reached their original target funding amount.
Take a look at "Galactic Domination Online". It looks like they might not get funded and have a Paypal button near the bottom of their page.
I suppose this is no big deal since Shadow of the Avatar took in only $125k in Paypal donations during their Kickstarter, which was only 6% of their total.
Do you think Camelot will make the Kickstarter cut?400k seems alot to make in 3 days.I would love to see camelot make it.Do you think them focussing on pvp is turning people away?
Originally posted by free4gab Do you think Camelot will make the Kickstarter cut?400k seems alot to make in 3 days.I would love to see camelot make it.Do you think them focussing on pvp is turning people away?
No, honestly... I think there are a number of factors.
1. Many people won't give to kickstarters in the first place... why spend money on something that may never come to fruition?
2. There has not been much exposure to this... I was LUCKY and happened to log onto mmorpg.com this month after not having been on for almost 2 years... I saw it and was like "hey DAoC creator making a new game? Win!" But it was purely luck.
how many hardcore former DAoCer's out there haven't even heard about this. I'm fairly certain a LARGE number that would have given were they to know about the kickstarter.
Originally posted by free4gab Do you think Camelot will make the Kickstarter cut?400k seems alot to make in 3 days.I would love to see camelot make it.Do you think them focussing on pvp is turning people away?
No, basing your KS on whitepaper with nothing really to show turned people away. This project was way too early to try to get crowdfunding. If he had put some more assets together, it might have succeeded.
Like someone above said, if CU fails to fund, it is only a testament to how not to do a KS.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Originally posted by free4gab Do you think Camelot will make the Kickstarter cut?400k seems alot to make in 3 days.I would love to see camelot make it.Do you think them focussing on pvp is turning people away?
No, basing your KS on whitepaper with nothing really to show turned people away. This project was way too early to try to get crowdfunding. If he had put some more assets together, it might have succeeded.
Like someone above said, if CU fails to fund, it is only a testament to how not to do a KS.
Soo... How not to do a KS = The exact same way nearly every KS is done?
Crowdfunding is exactly that, crowdfunding. You come up with interesting ideas and people who agree with that vision donate to see it realized. It is not a glorified early preorder system where you buy finished games.
They've even been trying to fulfill this unexpected need to magically see something that doesnt exist yet by pushing out great work at a breakneck pace. How many designers are personally chatting with fans about their ideas at 1 or 2 in the morning?
Originally posted by PeZzy I wonder why Camelot Unchained was prevented from having a Paypal method, when there are other MMOs on Kickstarter with clear paypal buttons on their kickstarter page.
...Really !!! .. If this is correct it certainly would have an effect on a Kickstarter programme or anyone selling anything online really. For example if you had two identicle Ebay traders and only one had Paypal the one without would almost certainly lose out. When making payments on the net trust is always the primary concern and I have to say from my point of view I always scratch my head if someone isn't using Paypal. I am in the niche collectible industry where we Sculpt and Manufacture niche market figurine and the Paypal icon and availability is recognized worldwide making it a business must.
...I will be backing this game but am slightly annoyed for them really that someone 'stupidly' negleted to offer this facility. If it was MJ himself he should swiftly punch himself in the face ..... if an employee slipped up ... . equally a punch in the face....maybe two or three if the campaign bottoms out at $1.990.000.
Its the way Kickstarter works, they cant offer Paypal until the Kickstarter reaches the requested funding. The pages this person is talking about had the Paypal button added to them after they reached their original target funding amount.
Kickstarter does not accept Paypal as a funding method so any Paypal funding doesnt count towards whether or not the project funds on Kickstarter. There are a bunch of legal issues because Paypal charges you immediately, which would be bad if the project then missed its funding requirement. The Amazon.com system allows for you to only be charged after the Kickstarter is finished.
..Well that put's that issue to bed ... I am relieved ... though also by the increased number of pledges that seemed to have rolled in. I have watched all of MJ's films and frankly I really admire his personal efforts / ethusiasms towards getting his message across with the game. It has so much promise and I do think atleast from what I have been reading, a solid and dedicated fanbase that are desperate for this game to succeed.......$376.000 left required with 69 hours left at this point.......interesting to say the least...
Soo... How not to do a KS = The exact same way nearly every KS is done?
No, the way many (I'd even go so far as to say "most") kickstarters are done (or should be done) is for a aspiring devloper to make a rudimentary product showing he/she has the skill/talent to actually make a good game, then request the funding so they can quit their day-job or higher more developers to actually make the product.
Now while mark jacobs may have experience making mmos, he's also respoinsible for the "ATROCITY" to all mmo kind that was warhammer online, it was a game that seemed great on "PAPER" (Sound familiar?) but the completed product was one of if not the worst big budget mmo ever made by man. In a less civilized world he's have been dragged out back and shot for making that by millions of people who bought it.
I'll never back this project, simply because he's the guy who would be making it. Personnaly I wouldn't trust this guy to work fast food.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
Soo... How not to do a KS = The exact same way nearly every KS is done?
No, the way many (I'd even go so far as to say "most") kickstarters are done (or should be done) is for a aspiring devloper to make a rudimentary product showing he/she has the skill/talent to actually make a good game, then request the funding so they can quit their day-job or higher more developers to actually make the product.
Now while mark jacobs may have experience making mmos, he's also respoinsible for the "ATROCITY" to all mmo kind that was warhammer online, it was a game that seemed great on "PAPER" (Sound familiar?) but the completed product was one of if not the worst big budget mmo ever made by man. In a less civilized world he's have been dragged out back and shot for making that by millions of people who bought it.
I'll never back this project, simply because he's the guy who would be making it. Personnaly I wouldn't trust this guy to work fast food.
The games I have followed elite, SC have had little more than concepts and artwork on show, they funded on the basis of people liking the developers previous games, elite and freelancer.
Soo... How not to do a KS = The exact same way nearly every KS is done?
No, the way many (I'd even go so far as to say "most") kickstarters are done (or should be done) is for a aspiring devloper to make a rudimentary product showing he/she has the skill/talent to actually make a good game, then request the funding so they can quit their day-job or higher more developers to actually make the product.
Now while mark jacobs may have experience making mmos, he's also respoinsible for the "ATROCITY" to all mmo kind that was warhammer online, it was a game that seemed great on "PAPER" (Sound familiar?) but the completed product was one of if not the worst big budget mmo ever made by man. In a less civilized world he's have been dragged out back and shot for making that by millions of people who bought it.
I'll never back this project, simply because he's the guy who would be making it. Personnaly I wouldn't trust this guy to work fast food.
And this is where the problem comes in. This huge irrational backlash against WAR. Really I dont recall ever being given the impression it was anything revolutionary. WAR was just another AAA MMO trying to follow that "appeal to everyone" model and beat WoW at its own game. It wasnt really any worse than any of the others. Calling it an "atrocity" is pretty harsh compared to the other games we've seen released in that market.
But if you have a problem with WAR, that problem is with the principles on which it is built. The game functions. You can log in today and interact with other players if you want. Same with DAOC. Whether or not he can make a functioning game isnt in question.
He's taken the time to lay out all of his ideas and basic principles for this new game ahead of time and get feedback from the community. He's being as open about the development process as possible by letting us in at the ground floor so that we as players can actually discuss and influence the game before mechanics get set in stone.
While it may be convenient and emotionally satisfying to drop the blame for everything you disliked in WAR on one guy, its honestly just silly. He was one guy involved in the project. He didnt own the studio. He was just an employee of EA after his investors forced the sale of Mythic to EA a few years earlier.
Originally posted by free4gab Do you think Camelot will make the Kickstarter cut?400k seems alot to make in 3 days.I would love to see camelot make it.Do you think them focussing on pvp is turning people away?
No, basing your KS on whitepaper with nothing really to show turned people away. This project was way too early to try to get crowdfunding. If he had put some more assets together, it might have succeeded.
Like someone above said, if CU fails to fund, it is only a testament to how not to do a KS.
Soo... How not to do a KS = The exact same way nearly every KS is done?
Crowdfunding is exactly that, crowdfunding. You come up with interesting ideas and people who agree with that vision donate to see it realized. It is not a glorified early preorder system where you buy finished games.
They've even been trying to fulfill this unexpected need to magically see something that doesnt exist yet by pushing out great work at a breakneck pace. How many designers are personally chatting with fans about their ideas at 1 or 2 in the morning?
They could have done a KS for funds to do a tech demo first, it's been done before.
Originally posted by free4gab Do you think Camelot will make the Kickstarter cut?400k seems alot to make in 3 days.I would love to see camelot make it.Do you think them focussing on pvp is turning people away?
No, basing your KS on whitepaper with nothing really to show turned people away. This project was way too early to try to get crowdfunding. If he had put some more assets together, it might have succeeded.
Like someone above said, if CU fails to fund, it is only a testament to how not to do a KS.
Soo... How not to do a KS = The exact same way nearly every KS is done?
Crowdfunding is exactly that, crowdfunding. You come up with interesting ideas and people who agree with that vision donate to see it realized. It is not a glorified early preorder system where you buy finished games.
They've even been trying to fulfill this unexpected need to magically see something that doesnt exist yet by pushing out great work at a breakneck pace. How many designers are personally chatting with fans about their ideas at 1 or 2 in the morning?
They could have done a KS for funds to do a tech demo first, it's been done before.
2M isn't exactly a small amount.
They are already doing tech demos right now using the initial investment theyve already put into the project. They are building their own engine in house and already have it up and running playing a simple little pvp game just as a basic demonstration of its capabilities and networking. Anyone with a DX11 graphics card can log into it when they have the server up.
Or are you asking for one of those flashy videos made in some completely different engine they arent even going to use like some other games have done? Why would you want a video of something that isnt actually going to be the final product? There are so many things that still need to be determined through rigorous testing and backer feedback.
Soo... How not to do a KS = The exact same way nearly every KS is done?
No, the way many (I'd even go so far as to say "most") kickstarters are done (or should be done) is for a aspiring devloper to make a rudimentary product showing he/she has the skill/talent to actually make a good game, then request the funding so they can quit their day-job or higher more developers to actually make the product.
Now while mark jacobs may have experience making mmos, he's also respoinsible for the "ATROCITY" to all mmo kind that was warhammer online, it was a game that seemed great on "PAPER" (Sound familiar?) but the completed product was one of if not the worst big budget mmo ever made by man. In a less civilized world he's have been dragged out back and shot for making that by millions of people who bought it.
I'll never back this project, simply because he's the guy who would be making it. Personnaly I wouldn't trust this guy to work fast food.
The games I have followed elite, SC have had little more than concepts and artwork on show, they funded on the basis of people liking the developers previous games, elite and freelancer.
Actually Star Citizen had more to show than CU. Star Citizen also started their kickstarter after they announced the game at GDC 2012. They already had their crowdfunding website running and were in the process of launching their Kickstarter page.
During GDC (9 days before their kickstarter) Roberts showed Star Citizen game in action, even though incomplete and as just a proof of concept, his presentation was by far more robust than what CU showed on their Kickstarter video.
Star Citizen for me was an amazing Kickstarter, it showed that Roberts had invested his own money in presenting his proof of concept, the amount of interviews, podcasts, AMAs, cross promotion with Elite (which helped Elite reach its funding amount) was spectacular.
I feel that CU really fell on the wayside regarding getting more exposure on big site like Joystiq, Kotaku, Destructoid, (etc...) compared to Star Citizen. I don't know why but it seems that the big gaming sites were not convinced or perhaps Roberts has more gravitas than Mark Jacobs!? I don't know. I'm still hoping that CU gets funded even though I'm not pledging.
The games I have followed elite, SC have had little more than concepts and artwork on show, they funded on the basis of people liking the developers previous games, elite and freelancer.
Actually Star Citizen had more to show than CU. Star Citizen also started their kickstarter after they announced the game at GDC 2012. They already had their crowdfunding website running and were in the process of launching their Kickstarter page.
During GDC (9 days before their kickstarter) Roberts showed Star Citizen game in action, even though incomplete and as just a proof of concept, his presentation was by far more robust than what CU showed on their Kickstarter video.
Star Citizen for me was an amazing Kickstarter, it showed that Roberts had invested his own money in presenting his proof of concept, the amount of interviews, podcasts, AMAs, cross promotion with Elite (which helped Elite reach its funding amount) was spectacular.
I feel that CU really fell on the wayside regarding getting more exposure on big site like Joystiq, Kotaku, Destructoid, (etc...) compared to Star Citizen. I don't know why but it seems that the big gaming sites were not convinced or perhaps Roberts has more gravitas than Mark Jacobs!? I don't know. I'm still hoping that CU gets funded even though I'm not pledging.
In addition to all of this, CU's website is awful. Basically, if you want to know what CU is about, you've got to spend over half an hour reading stuff and that's bad. A game should have an impressive presentation that tells you what it's about and how it's going to entertain you, the player. Star Citizen did just that, with the video ABRaquel linked to.
CU's marketing campaign is more like "yeah, sure, if you ask nicely, we'll show you something... maybe". That could work for Blizzard's Titan, but not for a small indie title.
The games I have followed elite, SC have had little more than concepts and artwork on show, they funded on the basis of people liking the developers previous games, elite and freelancer.
Actually Star Citizen had more to show than CU. Star Citizen also started their kickstarter after they announced the game at GDC 2012. They already had their crowdfunding website running and were in the process of launching their Kickstarter page.
During GDC (9 days before their kickstarter) Roberts showed Star Citizen game in action, even though incomplete and as just a proof of concept, his presentation was by far more robust than what CU showed on their Kickstarter video.
Star Citizen for me was an amazing Kickstarter, it showed that Roberts had invested his own money in presenting his proof of concept, the amount of interviews, podcasts, AMAs, cross promotion with Elite (which helped Elite reach its funding amount) was spectacular.
I feel that CU really fell on the wayside regarding getting more exposure on big site like Joystiq, Kotaku, Destructoid, (etc...) compared to Star Citizen. I don't know why but it seems that the big gaming sites were not convinced or perhaps Roberts has more gravitas than Mark Jacobs!? I don't know. I'm still hoping that CU gets funded even though I'm not pledging.
In addition to all of this, CU's website is awful. Basically, if you want to know what CU is about, you've got to spend over half an hour reading stuff and that's bad. A game should have an impressive presentation that tells you what it's about and how it's going to entertain you, the player. Star Citizen did just that, with the video ABRaquel linked to.
CU's marketing campaign is more like "yeah, sure, if you ask nicely, we'll show you something... maybe". That could work for Blizzard's Titan, but not for a small indie title.
MJ has been answering lots of peoples questions through messages personally.
Certainly their website isnt amazing, they havent hired a marketing pro to sell you the product. They're just honestly presenting ideas. Also the new main video on the kickstarter is much better than the original one.
I can see people saying "they'd get more people if they were better at marketing", certainly that makes sense.
But it just seems completely irrational if someone takes a little time to look into and then says "well I like it but I'm not pledging because they're too focused on the game and the ideas for it instead of advertising".
The games I have followed elite, SC have had little more than concepts and artwork on show, they funded on the basis of people liking the developers previous games, elite and freelancer.
Actually Star Citizen had more to show than CU. Star Citizen also started their kickstarter after they announced the game at GDC 2012. They already had their crowdfunding website running and were in the process of launching their Kickstarter page.
During GDC (9 days before their kickstarter) Roberts showed Star Citizen game in action, even though incomplete and as just a proof of concept, his presentation was by far more robust than what CU showed on their Kickstarter video.
Star Citizen for me was an amazing Kickstarter, it showed that Roberts had invested his own money in presenting his proof of concept, the amount of interviews, podcasts, AMAs, cross promotion with Elite (which helped Elite reach its funding amount) was spectacular.
I feel that CU really fell on the wayside regarding getting more exposure on big site like Joystiq, Kotaku, Destructoid, (etc...) compared to Star Citizen. I don't know why but it seems that the big gaming sites were not convinced or perhaps Roberts has more gravitas than Mark Jacobs!? I don't know. I'm still hoping that CU gets funded even though I'm not pledging.
In addition to all of this, CU's website is awful. Basically, if you want to know what CU is about, you've got to spend over half an hour reading stuff and that's bad. A game should have an impressive presentation that tells you what it's about and how it's going to entertain you, the player. Star Citizen did just that, with the video ABRaquel linked to.
CU's marketing campaign is more like "yeah, sure, if you ask nicely, we'll show you something... maybe". That could work for Blizzard's Titan, but not for a small indie title.
MJ has been answering lots of peoples questions through messages personally.
Certainly their website isnt amazing, they havent hired a marketing pro to sell you the product. They're just honestly presenting ideas. Also the new main video on the kickstarter is much better than the original one.
I can see people saying "they'd get more people if they were better at marketing", certainly that makes sense.
But it just seems completely irrational if someone takes a little time to look into and then says "well I like it but I'm not pledging because they're too focused on the game and the ideas for it instead of advertising".
I think in the end, the sad truth is, that major gaming sites sometimes like to play favourites (not saying that this is the norm).
For example, Star Citizen got 8 articles during its Kickstarter just on Kotaku, 11 on Joystiq plus Massively, whereas I haven't seen an article about Camelot Unchained on Joystiq (only Massively) and only 1 article on Kotaku.
The amount of exposure for Camelot Unchained has been lackluster on major gaming sites, to say the least, and I'm not trying to criticize MJ since a lot of this is really out of his hands. I just don't know if he had more to show for Camelot Unchained, perhaps he could've gotten more coverage on major gaming sites.
It will certainly be interesting to see how CU comes out.
However, I think it's past time for people to stop proclaiming an MMO the messiah of the industry before anyone has even played it yet.
Remember when SWToR was going to change everything? Remember Rift? Warhammer?
Being optimistic about an MMO and supportive of it is one thing, but brainwashing yourself into the idea that this MMO encompasses all that is great is something perhaps everyone should have learned better than to do by now.
Whoever is making the MMO, be they EA or a small company, we need to be realistic about our expectations and actually wait till the game is released before simply buying into everything the maker is claiming it to be. Everyone talks like everything that Mark Jacobs has proposed is going to be in the MMO, and it's going to work perfectly, and it's going to be fantastic and everything that DAoC was and/or should be. Yet remember how many times developers/advertisers/spokespeople have promised more than they could actually deliver.
This game isn't even being developed yet, but some people already not just think but actually KNOW that it will be the best thing since sliced bread. Hype has just gotten totally out of control these days.
Similarly, a game should be played before automatically assuming it will fail. Goes both ways. I think the least everyone could do is be reasonable.
Just my two cents.
Played: DAoC, AC2, WoW, CoH, GW, GW2, WAR, AoC, Champions Online, Rift, Dragon Nest, Vindictus, Warframe, Neverwinter, Dungeon Fighter Online
Comments
In that case I dont understand what you are basing this opinion on?
What evidence do you have that people here would go out of their way to bash on another game?
Other forums seem mostly clear of the blind hatred being directed towards CU. If a sensationalist article was posted about another game... nobody would care except the fans of that game.
Its just here on the CU forums that the forum warriors have declared it their duty to personally bash and verbally attack every overly excited fan.
As far as I know, paypal option only comes in after the project funds.
...Really !!! .. If this is correct it certainly would have an effect on a Kickstarter programme or anyone selling anything online really. For example if you had two identicle Ebay traders and only one had Paypal the one without would almost certainly lose out. When making payments on the net trust is always the primary concern and I have to say from my point of view I always scratch my head if someone isn't using Paypal. I am in the niche collectible industry where we Sculpt and Manufacture niche market figurine and the Paypal icon and availability is recognized worldwide making it a business must.
...I will be backing this game but am slightly annoyed for them really that someone 'stupidly' negleted to offer this facility. If it was MJ himself he should swiftly punch himself in the face ..... if an employee slipped up ... . equally a punch in the face....maybe two or three if the campaign bottoms out at $1.990.000.
.....all these threads...all the time spent and reading some really dedicated folks talk about the nitty and griity of every concievable aspect of the game when tragically the Pilot who has just has picked up a lottery winner in a helicopter get's told on the radio that Larry the Fuel guy didn't turn up for work this morning as the red the red light starts flashing as he begin's to regret the decision of a short cut over Mount McKinley.......If you were the lottery guy / backer I feel your knuckles would be whitening...
Its the way Kickstarter works, they cant offer Paypal until the Kickstarter reaches the requested funding. The pages this person is talking about had the Paypal button added to them after they reached their original target funding amount.
Kickstarter does not accept Paypal as a funding method so any Paypal funding doesnt count towards whether or not the project funds on Kickstarter. There are a bunch of legal issues because Paypal charges you immediately, which would be bad if the project then missed its funding requirement. The Amazon.com system allows for you to only be charged after the Kickstarter is finished.
Take a look at "Galactic Domination Online". It looks like they might not get funded and have a Paypal button near the bottom of their page.
I suppose this is no big deal since Shadow of the Avatar took in only $125k in Paypal donations during their Kickstarter, which was only 6% of their total.
No, honestly... I think there are a number of factors.
1. Many people won't give to kickstarters in the first place... why spend money on something that may never come to fruition?
2. There has not been much exposure to this... I was LUCKY and happened to log onto mmorpg.com this month after not having been on for almost 2 years... I saw it and was like "hey DAoC creator making a new game? Win!" But it was purely luck.
how many hardcore former DAoCer's out there haven't even heard about this. I'm fairly certain a LARGE number that would have given were they to know about the kickstarter.
No, basing your KS on whitepaper with nothing really to show turned people away. This project was way too early to try to get crowdfunding. If he had put some more assets together, it might have succeeded.
Like someone above said, if CU fails to fund, it is only a testament to how not to do a KS.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Soo... How not to do a KS = The exact same way nearly every KS is done?
Crowdfunding is exactly that, crowdfunding. You come up with interesting ideas and people who agree with that vision donate to see it realized. It is not a glorified early preorder system where you buy finished games.
They've even been trying to fulfill this unexpected need to magically see something that doesnt exist yet by pushing out great work at a breakneck pace. How many designers are personally chatting with fans about their ideas at 1 or 2 in the morning?
..Well that put's that issue to bed ... I am relieved ... though also by the increased number of pledges that seemed to have rolled in. I have watched all of MJ's films and frankly I really admire his personal efforts / ethusiasms towards getting his message across with the game. It has so much promise and I do think atleast from what I have been reading, a solid and dedicated fanbase that are desperate for this game to succeed.......$376.000 left required with 69 hours left at this point.......interesting to say the least...
No, the way many (I'd even go so far as to say "most") kickstarters are done (or should be done) is for a aspiring devloper to make a rudimentary product showing he/she has the skill/talent to actually make a good game, then request the funding so they can quit their day-job or higher more developers to actually make the product.
Now while mark jacobs may have experience making mmos, he's also respoinsible for the "ATROCITY" to all mmo kind that was warhammer online, it was a game that seemed great on "PAPER" (Sound familiar?) but the completed product was one of if not the worst big budget mmo ever made by man. In a less civilized world he's have been dragged out back and shot for making that by millions of people who bought it.
I'll never back this project, simply because he's the guy who would be making it. Personnaly I wouldn't trust this guy to work fast food.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
The games I have followed elite, SC have had little more than concepts and artwork on show, they funded on the basis of people liking the developers previous games, elite and freelancer.
And this is where the problem comes in. This huge irrational backlash against WAR. Really I dont recall ever being given the impression it was anything revolutionary. WAR was just another AAA MMO trying to follow that "appeal to everyone" model and beat WoW at its own game. It wasnt really any worse than any of the others. Calling it an "atrocity" is pretty harsh compared to the other games we've seen released in that market.
But if you have a problem with WAR, that problem is with the principles on which it is built. The game functions. You can log in today and interact with other players if you want. Same with DAOC. Whether or not he can make a functioning game isnt in question.
He's taken the time to lay out all of his ideas and basic principles for this new game ahead of time and get feedback from the community. He's being as open about the development process as possible by letting us in at the ground floor so that we as players can actually discuss and influence the game before mechanics get set in stone.
While it may be convenient and emotionally satisfying to drop the blame for everything you disliked in WAR on one guy, its honestly just silly. He was one guy involved in the project. He didnt own the studio. He was just an employee of EA after his investors forced the sale of Mythic to EA a few years earlier.
They could have done a KS for funds to do a tech demo first, it's been done before.
2M isn't exactly a small amount.
They are already doing tech demos right now using the initial investment theyve already put into the project. They are building their own engine in house and already have it up and running playing a simple little pvp game just as a basic demonstration of its capabilities and networking. Anyone with a DX11 graphics card can log into it when they have the server up.
Or are you asking for one of those flashy videos made in some completely different engine they arent even going to use like some other games have done? Why would you want a video of something that isnt actually going to be the final product? There are so many things that still need to be determined through rigorous testing and backer feedback.
Actually Star Citizen had more to show than CU. Star Citizen also started their kickstarter after they announced the game at GDC 2012. They already had their crowdfunding website running and were in the process of launching their Kickstarter page.
During GDC (9 days before their kickstarter) Roberts showed Star Citizen game in action, even though incomplete and as just a proof of concept, his presentation was by far more robust than what CU showed on their Kickstarter video.
Star Citizen for me was an amazing Kickstarter, it showed that Roberts had invested his own money in presenting his proof of concept, the amount of interviews, podcasts, AMAs, cross promotion with Elite (which helped Elite reach its funding amount) was spectacular.
I feel that CU really fell on the wayside regarding getting more exposure on big site like Joystiq, Kotaku, Destructoid, (etc...) compared to Star Citizen. I don't know why but it seems that the big gaming sites were not convinced or perhaps Roberts has more gravitas than Mark Jacobs!? I don't know. I'm still hoping that CU gets funded even though I'm not pledging.
In addition to all of this, CU's website is awful. Basically, if you want to know what CU is about, you've got to spend over half an hour reading stuff and that's bad. A game should have an impressive presentation that tells you what it's about and how it's going to entertain you, the player. Star Citizen did just that, with the video ABRaquel linked to.
CU's marketing campaign is more like "yeah, sure, if you ask nicely, we'll show you something... maybe". That could work for Blizzard's Titan, but not for a small indie title.
MJ has been answering lots of peoples questions through messages personally.
Certainly their website isnt amazing, they havent hired a marketing pro to sell you the product. They're just honestly presenting ideas. Also the new main video on the kickstarter is much better than the original one.
I can see people saying "they'd get more people if they were better at marketing", certainly that makes sense.
But it just seems completely irrational if someone takes a little time to look into and then says "well I like it but I'm not pledging because they're too focused on the game and the ideas for it instead of advertising".
I think in the end, the sad truth is, that major gaming sites sometimes like to play favourites (not saying that this is the norm).
For example, Star Citizen got 8 articles during its Kickstarter just on Kotaku, 11 on Joystiq plus Massively, whereas I haven't seen an article about Camelot Unchained on Joystiq (only Massively) and only 1 article on Kotaku.
The amount of exposure for Camelot Unchained has been lackluster on major gaming sites, to say the least, and I'm not trying to criticize MJ since a lot of this is really out of his hands. I just don't know if he had more to show for Camelot Unchained, perhaps he could've gotten more coverage on major gaming sites.
It will certainly be interesting to see how CU comes out.
However, I think it's past time for people to stop proclaiming an MMO the messiah of the industry before anyone has even played it yet.
Remember when SWToR was going to change everything? Remember Rift? Warhammer?
Being optimistic about an MMO and supportive of it is one thing, but brainwashing yourself into the idea that this MMO encompasses all that is great is something perhaps everyone should have learned better than to do by now.
Whoever is making the MMO, be they EA or a small company, we need to be realistic about our expectations and actually wait till the game is released before simply buying into everything the maker is claiming it to be. Everyone talks like everything that Mark Jacobs has proposed is going to be in the MMO, and it's going to work perfectly, and it's going to be fantastic and everything that DAoC was and/or should be. Yet remember how many times developers/advertisers/spokespeople have promised more than they could actually deliver.
This game isn't even being developed yet, but some people already not just think but actually KNOW that it will be the best thing since sliced bread. Hype has just gotten totally out of control these days.
Similarly, a game should be played before automatically assuming it will fail. Goes both ways. I think the least everyone could do is be reasonable.
Just my two cents.
Played: DAoC, AC2, WoW, CoH, GW, GW2, WAR, AoC, Champions Online, Rift, Dragon Nest, Vindictus, Warframe, Neverwinter, Dungeon Fighter Online
Currently Playing: Dungeon Fighter Online Global
Waiting for: None
Absolutely no chance of anything wowish about it.
So change the world - no
Definetly offer something different, much like eve does - yes