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Why I loved DAOC but am not funding this

LateBrake1LateBrake1 san diego, CAPosts: 54Member

I play most MMO's and even played DAOC back in the day and really enjoyed it, however I am not backing this project. It seems to me when your going so niche by being PvP only and with a limited class selection it's just not appealing compared to what else is out there.

Perhaps it's somewhat because I  (and my friends) are burned out on GW2 world vrs world. The thought of just WvW (or  RvR as they call it) 24/7 would be mind numbing.

Had they said 18 classes, 3 realms, PvE zones to fight over, raids, maybe even the ability for user created content, it would have a better chance. Yes I understand they keeping their ambitions small and focused (class wise and gameplay wise) but what's the point if you cant make the game anyway? Why not go big? I enjoy PvP but man everyone needs some variety.

I think it's going to take a game that is very well rounded to rise to the top of the MMO world in the future. It would have all those things and more, maybe not done amazingly well at the beginning but at least the prospect of it.

I will say GL to MJ though but again, not throwing a bone to the PvE people or including anything new and revolutionary gameplay wise is a decision I would not have made.

 

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Comments

  • morfidonmorfidon BochniaPosts: 245Member
    Originally posted by LateBrake1

    I play most MMO's and even played DAOC back in the day and really enjoyed it, however I am not backing this project. It seems to me when your going so niche by being PvP only and with a limited class selection it's just not appealing compared to what else is out there.

    Perhaps it's somewhat because I  (and my friends) are burned out on GW2 world vrs world. The thought of just WvW (or  RvR as they call it) 24/7 would be mind numbing.

    Had they said 18 classes, 3 realms, PvE zones to fight over, raids, maybe even the ability for user created content, it would have a better chance. Yes I understand they keeping their ambitions small and focused (class wise and gameplay wise) but what's the point if you cant make the game anyway? Why not go big? I enjoy PvP but man everyone needs some variety.

    I think it's going to take a game that is very well rounded to rise to the top of the MMO world in the future. It would have all those things and more, maybe not done amazingly well at the beginning but at least the prospect of it.

    I will say GL to MJ though but again, not throwing a bone to the PvE people or including anything new and revolutionary gameplay wise is a decision I would not have made.

     

    so you say that this:

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained/posts/460192

    is not revolutionary? lol

  • WylfWylf Brentwood, CAPosts: 159Member
    In the End you may be right. On the other hand, it seems that at some point in time in every MMO that I have played the PvP crowd starts to complain about the lack of variety and a lack of a world PvP server.  The latest is Rift, their forums are full of complaints. Though there is one server that is dedicated to PvP it apparently is not good enough.   I do not begrudge those who want to play PvP their fun.  So I am hoping that CU works and gives the PvP fans a place to go.
  • SorninSornin Richmond, BCPosts: 1,133Member

    Your post is all over the place in terms of logic and reasoning. You first state you understand it is going for a niche audience, then later state it needs to appeal to more people and "go big" and discusses a "rise to the top of the MMO world." So do you understand it is niche or not? I am beginning to think not.

    "Niche" means it is not for most people, and clearly you are one of those; that is fine - you are one of the lucky ones who enjoys the current MMORPG offerings and what is on the horizon, it would seem. I am not so lucky.

    Also, as for nothing revolutionary, I would say there at least two systems in place that can fairly be called "revolutionary." The first is the UI, which is going to be built on HTML and JavaScript so it can be composed of the Web and the Web can be composed of it. That is cool. Secondly, and more importantly, the building system is going to be done in the vein of Minecraft. What MMORPG has attempted something like that? Completely new to the genre.

    The Depths is also pretty revolutionary, too, come to think of it. And the resources system as well.

    In short, it is a niche game, most will prefer playing something more mainstream, but it does have lots of revolutionary features.

    image

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    The game is not for everyone he has said that himself... it is a niche PVP game.. if your not into that kind of thing then fair enough..

     

    There are enough new things thngs this game is bringing to the table and the fact that its main focus is PVP i am happy to back it, but i want that type of game i am bored of all the AAA themepark clones they bore the hell out of me..

     

    Now there is a kickstarter sticky thread that this should have been added to and im sure i mod will close this off.

  • vulkanxxvulkanxx streetsboro, OHPosts: 13Member
    Originally posted by morfidon
    Originally posted by LateBrake1

    I play most MMO's and even played DAOC back in the day and really enjoyed it, however I am not backing this project. It seems to me when your going so niche by being PvP only and with a limited class selection it's just not appealing compared to what else is out there.

    Perhaps it's somewhat because I  (and my friends) are burned out on GW2 world vrs world. The thought of just WvW (or  RvR as they call it) 24/7 would be mind numbing.

    Had they said 18 classes, 3 realms, PvE zones to fight over, raids, maybe even the ability for user created content, it would have a better chance. Yes I understand they keeping their ambitions small and focused (class wise and gameplay wise) but what's the point if you cant make the game anyway? Why not go big? I enjoy PvP but man everyone needs some variety.

    I think it's going to take a game that is very well rounded to rise to the top of the MMO world in the future. It would have all those things and more, maybe not done amazingly well at the beginning but at least the prospect of it.

    I will say GL to MJ though but again, not throwing a bone to the PvE people or including anything new and revolutionary gameplay wise is a decision I would not have made.

     

    so you say that this:

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained/posts/460192

    is not revolutionary? lol

    I would say that is a failure.

  • MikeJezZMikeJezZ HillerødPosts: 1,197Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by LateBrake1

    I play most MMO's and even played DAOC back in the day and really enjoyed it, however I am not backing this project. It seems to me when your going so niche by being PvP only and with a limited class selection it's just not appealing compared to what else is out there.

    Perhaps it's somewhat because I  (and my friends) are burned out on GW2 world vrs world. The thought of just WvW (or  RvR as they call it) 24/7 would be mind numbing.

    Had they said 18 classes, 3 realms, PvE zones to fight over, raids, maybe even the ability for user created content, it would have a better chance. Yes I understand they keeping their ambitions small and focused (class wise and gameplay wise) but what's the point if you cant make the game anyway? Why not go big? I enjoy PvP but man everyone needs some variety.

    I think it's going to take a game that is very well rounded to rise to the top of the MMO world in the future. It would have all those things and more, maybe not done amazingly well at the beginning but at least the prospect of it.

    I will say GL to MJ though but again, not throwing a bone to the PvE people or including anything new and revolutionary gameplay wise is a decision I would not have made.

    I understand your concerns. However, I think you did forget about how cool PvP can be.

     

    I describe myself as a die hard PvP fan. I hate PvE in MMOs in general. I always rushed when playing WoW and a new expansion released, to max level just for being able to PvP. I'm sick of boring quests, dungeons and raids. Fighting the same big ass mob every week is just not my cup of tea.

     

    Guild Wars 2. I was so hyped on this title. It landed, got blasted away with the graphics. The graphics in this game was awesome. Sadly, it was the only awesome about it. GW2 lacked feeling of progression, and nothing really feels important in the game, besides just keyboard smashing.

     

    I know I ofended some GW2 fans there, but really - there is no progress or anything in GW2.

     

    Try some fun PvP games, I'm sure it will change your mind. Sadly there's not alot of them around, because people want PvE for some reason.

     

    I loved Warhammer Online RvR for an example, but GW2 RvR feels so meaningless compared to Warhammer Online, and that is what makes it count. To have a meaning.

     

    In War Online, you gain PvP rank and will be able to get better gear. In GW2 you just.... Kill or get killed.

     

     

     

    Originally posted by Wylf
    In the End you may be right. On the other hand, it seems that at some point in time in every MMO that I have played the PvP crowd starts to complain about the lack of variety and a lack of a world PvP server.  The latest is Rift, their forums are full of complaints. Though there is one server that is dedicated to PvP it apparently is not good enough.   I do not begrudge those who want to play PvP their fun.  So I am hoping that CU works and gives the PvP fans a place to go.

    Well, played Rift since launch. Rift is not really a PvP game.

     

    It is a PvE game with PvP as a niche, just like World of Warcraft.

    Playing ATM: Elder Scrolls Online, Diablo 3
    MMO's shelted: Check my mmorpg profile
    KICKSTARTED: Camelot Unchained. (250 USD)

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by vulkanxx
     

    I would say that is a failure.

    Then its certainly not a game for you lol so dont worry about it.

  • tauraktaurak rock cave, WVPosts: 174Member

    Sadly I knew that was why this game isn't funding.

    And the OP does make a very valid point. I love PvP just as much as anyone, but at some point it is nice to go kill a raid boss or something.

    I myself could survive on PvP alone, but I'd be happier with at least some raid bosses.

    Its really sad, because all the games in development with PvP in the game, its just like WoW. PvP isn't even a major part of the game, its just an afterthought.

    A lot of us are really starved for a good PvP game, its been years, and many of the PvP players have just went the way of PvE because we've been force fed the crap for years.

    At the very least if this game doesn't fund, I hope someone picks up on Mark's ideas, throws some PvE into the game, and makes a game out of it. That will never happen though, none of the gme companies these days give 2 shits about us PvP players.

    This is our only chance to have a good PvP game, if this doesn't fund we're screwed.

    What else are you gonna play for PvP? TESO? WoW? lol. Seriously, what game catches your eye for PvP cause I'd really like to play a game that doesn't push us in a damn corner for once.

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by taurak

    Sadly I knew that was why this game isn't funding.

    And the OP does make a very valid point. I love PvP just as much as anyone, but at some point it is nice to go kill a raid boss or something.

    There will be dungeons with NPCs but they wont drop weapons of gear, plus players can take control of them so i would think you would have a lot more fun in the dungeons in this game.

    I myself could survive on PvP alone, but I'd be happier with at least some raid bosses.

    See above

    Its really sad, because all the games in development with PvP in the game, its just like WoW. PvP isn't even a major part of the game, its just an afterthought.

    Exactly.. tho there are some upcoming sandbox games over the next few years where PVP will be a big thing. Also we currently have Darkfall and mortal online.

    A lot of us are really starved for a good PvP game, its been years, and many of the PvP players have just went the way of PvE because we've been force fed the crap for years.

    If you really love PVP then check our mortal online or DF:UW both games have issues but the PVP is good.

    At the very least if this game doesn't fund, I hope someone picks up on Mark's ideas, throws some PvE into the game, and makes a game out of it. That will never happen though, none of the gme companies these days give 2 shits about us PvP players.

    Thats why MArk has had to turn to kickstarter, no big publisher would even look at a niche game like this as they think therei s no money in it. Plus dont worry this game will fund.

    This is our only chance to have a good PvP game, if this doesn't fund we're screwed.

    Nah there are quite a few good looking sandbox games on the way that have a ton of pvp in them, plus at the moment we have DF:UW and mortal plus a few others.

    What else are you gonna play for PvP? TESO? WoW? lol. Seriously, what game catches your eye for PvP cause I'd really like to play a game that doesn't push us in a damn corner for once.

    As above currently we have DF:UW and Mortal Online.. there are a few upcoming games that will have a lot of PVP in them but wont be around for a few years.

     

  • SabasSabas herzelePosts: 197Member
    Originally posted by LateBrake1

    I play most MMO's

     

     

    See that right there is part of the whole problem isn't it?

     

    Too many MMO's trying to capture the spirits of players who behave more like tourists then people with an honest life-style choice.

     

    If MMO's tried less to be this all encompassing experience for all play styles then all of us here on mmorpg.com would have our very own "perfect" MMO.

  • GreenHellGreenHell ludlow, MAPosts: 1,322Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Pandamin
    Originally posted by LateBrake1

    I play most MMO's

     

     

    See that right there is part of the whole problem isn't it?

     

    Too many MMO's trying to capture the spirits of players who behave more like tourists then people with an honest life-style choice.

     

    If MMO's tried less to be this all encompassing experience for all play styles then all of us here on mmorpg.com would have our very own "perfect" MMO.

    I agree it would be great if there were more niche games out there. I don't know why anyone would be against having more options. The only hope for that is small indy developers that are not trying to make games that are "wow killers."

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GreenHell
     

    I agree it would be great if there were more niche games out there. I don't know why anyone would be against having more options. The only hope for that is small indy developers that are not trying to make games that are "wow killers."

    exactly..

     

     

  • tauraktaurak rock cave, WVPosts: 174Member

    I don't like mortal or darkfall, tried both, not my style.

    If this game has combat like mortal or darkfall, I will not like it either. Sadly I'm guessing it will since no tab targeting.

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member
    Originally posted by Caldrin
    Originally posted by taurak

    Sadly I knew that was why this game isn't funding.

    And the OP does make a very valid point. I love PvP just as much as anyone, but at some point it is nice to go kill a raid boss or something.

    There will be dungeons with NPCs but they wont drop weapons of gear, plus players can take control of them so i would think you would have a lot more fun in the dungeons in this game.

    I myself could survive on PvP alone, but I'd be happier with at least some raid bosses.

    See above

    Its really sad, because all the games in development with PvP in the game, its just like WoW. PvP isn't even a major part of the game, its just an afterthought.

    Exactly.. tho there are some upcoming sandbox games over the next few years where PVP will be a big thing. Also we currently have Darkfall and mortal online.

    A lot of us are really starved for a good PvP game, its been years, and many of the PvP players have just went the way of PvE because we've been force fed the crap for years.

    If you really love PVP then check our mortal online or DF:UW both games have issues but the PVP is good.

    At the very least if this game doesn't fund, I hope someone picks up on Mark's ideas, throws some PvE into the game, and makes a game out of it. That will never happen though, none of the gme companies these days give 2 shits about us PvP players.

    Thats why MArk has had to turn to kickstarter, no big publisher would even look at a niche game like this as they think therei s no money in it. Plus dont worry this game will fund.

    This is our only chance to have a good PvP game, if this doesn't fund we're screwed.

    Nah there are quite a few good looking sandbox games on the way that have a ton of pvp in them, plus at the moment we have DF:UW and mortal plus a few others.

    What else are you gonna play for PvP? TESO? WoW? lol. Seriously, what game catches your eye for PvP cause I'd really like to play a game that doesn't push us in a damn corner for once.

    As above currently we have DF:UW and Mortal Online.. there are a few upcoming games that will have a lot of PVP in them but wont be around for a few years.

     

    DFUW and MO are just awful. DAoC is STILL a better rounded pvp game, even now.

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  • SorninSornin Richmond, BCPosts: 1,133Member
    Originally posted by taurak

    I don't like mortal or darkfall, tried both, not my style.

    If this game has combat like mortal or darkfall, I will not like it either. Sadly I'm guessing it will since no tab targeting.

    There is tab targeting.

    The amount of incorrect information people are holding on to is staggering, then it gets repeated and ripples out so more people believe the wrong things.

    Of course, to be fair, CSE could have done a better job communicating all of this information and aggregating it in one place. Fortunately fans have stepped up, but it would be nice if CSE did not make casual people hunt around for information. I have a lot of spare time but even I sometimes cannot keep up with all of the information being dispered on forums, in the KS comments, on live streams, etc.

    image

  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,396Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by LateBrake1

    Perhaps it's somewhat because I  (and my friends) are burned out on GW2 world vrs world. The thought of just WvW (or  RvR as they call it) 24/7 would be mind numbing.

    To be fair, this game's PvP should be better than GW2's WvW. Well, I'm not sure it will be, but if it's not CU will be a complete flop.

    Originally posted by LateBrake1

    I will say GL to MJ though but again, not throwing a bone to the PvE people or including anything new and revolutionary gameplay wise is a decision I would not have made.

    The concept of everything being in RvR areas is pretty interesting in itself and could be revolutionary if done right. Theoretically, it could result in lots of sandboxy fun, like fighting over and inside housing areas. However, it's also a huge risk, because bugs and balance issues in PvP are more critical than they are in PvE. For example, TSW's faction warfare has been broken since launch, but people still play TSW because of PvE.

    Originally posted by MikeJezZ

    I know I ofended some GW2 fans there, but really - there is no progress or anything in GW2.

    Yeah, that sucks for some people. I guess it's a good thing the lack of vertical progression was one of the most marketed features of GW2, so the ones who bought it despite frequenting sites like this can only blame themselves and their lack of reading comprehension.

  • DocmanduDocmandu AntwerpPosts: 60Member Common
    Originally posted by LateBrake1
    Had they said 18 classes, 3 realms, ...

    They mentioned 5 unique classes per realm and since there's 3 realms.. it's not that far off.

     

  • DocmanduDocmandu AntwerpPosts: 60Member Common
    Originally posted by taurak

    I don't like mortal or darkfall, tried both, not my style.

    If this game has combat like mortal or darkfall, I will not like it either. Sadly I'm guessing it will since no tab targeting.

     

    This is the info we still haven't gotten and which I really need for my pledge to stick. I'm guessing if they ever come to the combat system updates, that the amount pledged might swing either way.

    If it's anything like GW2 or heaven forbid WoW/RIFT/... I doubt I'm going through with my pledge. Afterall this is what makes a PvP game!

     

     

     

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by LateBrake1

    I play most MMO's and even played DAOC back in the day and really enjoyed it, however I am not backing this project. It seems to me when your going so niche by being PvP only and with a limited class selection it's just not appealing compared to what else is out there.

    Perhaps it's somewhat because I  (and my friends) are burned out on GW2 world vrs world. The thought of just WvW (or  RvR as they call it) 24/7 would be mind numbing.

    Had they said 18 classes, 3 realms, PvE zones to fight over, raids, maybe even the ability for user created content, it would have a better chance. Yes I understand they keeping their ambitions small and focused (class wise and gameplay wise) but what's the point if you cant make the game anyway? Why not go big? I enjoy PvP but man everyone needs some variety.

    I think it's going to take a game that is very well rounded to rise to the top of the MMO world in the future. It would have all those things and more, maybe not done amazingly well at the beginning but at least the prospect of it.

    I will say GL to MJ though but again, not throwing a bone to the PvE people or including anything new and revolutionary gameplay wise is a decision I would not have made.

    The number of classes is very disappointing. I don't find Mark's explanation for why he is doing it that way very convincing. Why is it harder to create a lot of classes now than it was 12 years and 2 MMOs ago? It should be easier.

    There is going to be mines and The Depths to fight over. Frankly there's way more non-RvR and user-created content in this game than I would like. If anything, the relative lack of RvR combat compared to DAOC is a better reason to not fund the game.

    I get that many people like to do both PvP and PvE. I don't get why they need to have that all in one game. What is stopping you from PvPing in CU and PvEing in another game such as GW 2?

    They can't go big because going big requires a lot more money which requires corporate backing which comes with strings which leads to a worse game such as, for instance, WAR.

    CU isn't trying to rise to the top of the MMO world. Every game that tries to do that and supplant WOW falls on its face. Trying to make a great game that appeals to a subset of the MMO player base like Mark is doing is a much better idea whether CU funds and is successful or not.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • DocmanduDocmandu AntwerpPosts: 60Member Common
    Originally posted by meddyck
     

    The number of classes is very disappointing. I don't find Mark's explanation for why he is doing it that way very convincing. Why is it harder to create a lot of classes now than it was 12 years and 2 MMOs ago? It should be easier.

    I thought it was 5x3, as in 15 unique classes but only 5 archetypes... did I get the info wrong?!

     

  • KaiserPhoenixKaiserPhoenix ViennaPosts: 59Member

    the game is also not competing with just current mmos, but with the ones coming out in the next 3+ years.

    Chances are, that the game's niche might be even smaller then, since many pvpers will be spread over multiple AAA games .

  • OgrelinOgrelin JonkopingPosts: 636Member


    Originally posted by KaiserPhoenix
    the game is also not competing with just current mmos, but with the ones coming out in the next 3+ years.Chances are, that the game's niche might be even smaller then, since many pvpers will be spread over multiple AAA games .

    That's not a reason NOT to back this game now... is it?

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,232Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by LateBrake1

    I play most MMO's and even played DAOC back in the day and really enjoyed it, however I am not backing this project. It seems to me when your going so niche by being PvP only and with a limited class selection it's just not appealing compared to what else is out there.

    Perhaps it's somewhat because I  (and my friends) are burned out on GW2 world vrs world. The thought of just WvW (or  RvR as they call it) 24/7 would be mind numbing.

    Had they said 18 classes, 3 realms, PvE zones to fight over, raids, maybe even the ability for user created content, it would have a better chance. Yes I understand they keeping their ambitions small and focused (class wise and gameplay wise) but what's the point if you cant make the game anyway? Why not go big? I enjoy PvP but man everyone needs some variety.

    I think it's going to take a game that is very well rounded to rise to the top of the MMO world in the future. It would have all those things and more, maybe not done amazingly well at the beginning but at least the prospect of it.

    I will say GL to MJ though but again, not throwing a bone to the PvE people or including anything new and revolutionary gameplay wise is a decision I would not have made.

     

    excluding pve is actually revolutionary enough.

     

    you are like someone who wants sth new, but doesn't wanna buy it because he is missing the old stuff.... doesn't make sense to me, but luckily it doesn't need to :>

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    I won't fund a game, when they haven't put their money where their mouth is by making a demo first.

    I'm not going to pledge for a list of ideas.

    If they had developed a rough / smaller version before they launched the kickstarter campaign, things may have been different. The computer industry is littered with vapourware, I want some evidence before I commit.

    The same applies with elite 4, I love elite, but the ks is just a list of ideas like cu.
  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Docmandu
    Originally posted by meddyck
     The number of classes is very disappointing. I don't find Mark's explanation for why he is doing it that way very convincing. Why is it harder to create a lot of classes now than it was 12 years and 2 MMOs ago? It should be easier.

    I thought it was 5x3, as in 15 unique classes but only 5 archetypes... did I get the info wrong?!

    I don't consider the crafter to be a real class since all of its skills could be done like a profession that any other class could train and nobody would notice the difference other than the few people who just really want to roleplay a character that is useless in combat. So there is 1 healer, 1 tank, 1 caster, and 1 hybrid or speeder in each realm. And maybe 1 archer if the first stretch goal is met. By comparison at launch DAOC had at least the following in each realm: 2 healers, 1 tank, 1 melee DPS, 1 melee hybrid, 1 speeder, 1 assassin, 1 archer, 1 dps caster, and 1 pet caster.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

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